Author Topic: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?  (Read 7748 times)

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Offline thinktank

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #100 on: February 09, 2011, 08:01:38 PM »
Those were some wise replies whitewings  :thumbsup:


But just because someone cannot answer the questions does not make it true, but so far I have not seen anyone here offer any real knowledge, scripture or wise advice refuting reincarnation, most of the replies are based on emotional personal dislike. The only real possible refute was the scripture from jabcat who said

"it is appointed for man once to die"

Personally I do have knowledge that could be against the idea of reincarnation in part. By that I mean that this knowledge could imply that reincarnaion for the genral population would not occur, but it still leaves room for it to occur in some instances e.g Elijah reincarnating as John the baptist for a special mission, and perhaps babies who have not had the chance to live life.




Offline micah7:9

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #101 on: February 09, 2011, 11:01:44 PM »
reincarnation is a faithless teaching of men without hope.
A statement of an insecure person who likely didn't even dare to read the thread.
You are correct that I did not bother to read the thread,
So you judge something you have no clue what it's about. A good step to increase knowledge...

Quote
I find the pagan aspects and opinions of reincarnation found on a supposedly christian forum worthless for spiritual growth.
So there are pagan verses in the OT and NT? Your claims of pagan aspect are based on nothing. Just because pagan religions have certain concepts it doesn't mean it can't be a Christian concept also. Just because the pagan Greeks had a god the God of the Bible is a pagan concept too?

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Why would anyone who is a beleiver even bother to deleve into the subject? I am sure there are other religions who accept that kind of thinking? Why not go that site a debate the issue.
Why would anyone who claims to be a believer is scared away by HS inspired verses?
Why don't you go to a forum that only discusses things that fit in your little box?

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As for being insecure, not so. The Lord has simply showed me the fruitlessness of such endeavors.
Yeah sure. I got a phone call of the HS today and He told me to keep looking because the verse posted in this thread are real...

"So you judge something you have no clue what it's about. A good step to increase knowledge..."
There is no knowledge to be found in the study of reincarnation within the Bible and the Gospel of Jesus Christ
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #102 on: February 09, 2011, 11:04:24 PM »
But just because someone cannot answer the questions does not make it true,
True. I'm not claiming reincarnation is a fact. I'm presenting verses and want scriptual feedback.
When I state that hell is eternal I will get swarmed with endless replies filled with verses and word defenitions that show I'm very wrong. But when reincarnation is mentioned... nothing. A few random remarks. But not endless lists of scriptures that people would show on a hell thread.
I find that odd...



Quote
but so far I have not seen anyone here offer any real knowledge, scripture or wise advice refuting reincarnation, most of the replies are based on emotional personal dislike. The only real possible refute was the scripture from jabcat who said

"it is appointed for man once to die"
Physical death. Second death. Spiritual death. Christians falling away death. Perhaps some Christians fall away 3 times in their life. That's a whole bunch of deaths.
But I agree James posted a verse. That's good. But not not the end of the discussion because verses can't contradict.
So the verses need to be aligned in some way. All verses are equally perfect inspired.

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Personally I do have knowledge that could be against the idea of reincarnation in part.
Plz. share. Although some may have that impression I'm not only looking for verse that support reincarnation.
I'm looking for all relavant verses.

 
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By that I mean that this knowledge could imply that reincarnaion for the genral population would not occur, but it still leaves room for it to occur in some instances e.g Elijah reincarnating as John the baptist for a special mission, and perhaps babies who have not had the chance to live life.
The verses I quotes spoke of sin passing on to a next generation. Of course the could apply to just a handful of people but I think they are more general in nature.
Maybe it's you will be judged how you judge others. As an example a KKK man reincarnates as a black man to experience the 'fun' of being hunted down by the KKK.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #103 on: February 09, 2011, 11:27:39 PM »
Im sorry but I find no teaching of reincarnation in the Word of God. There maybe verses that a person in todays age may find to be understood that way, but other than God being incarnate in Jesus, I find no other.
Heb 12:9 Thereafter, indeed, we had the fathers of our flesh as discipliners, and we respected them. Yet shall we not much rather be subjected to the Father of spirits and be living."
I understand that the Father can put a "spirit" of a past person into one in the present, but that is just that, a spirit.
The soul that sinneth it shall die.
Ecc 12:7  And the dust returneth to the earth as it was, And the spirit returneth to God who gave it.
 
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline CHB

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #104 on: February 10, 2011, 04:10:34 AM »
Then you misunderstood me. I think  :dontknow:

Who are you from a Biblical pov CHB?
a] A person of flesh and blood?
b] A spirit with a CHB coat?

a] Ok WW, now I am a person of flesh and blood.


Quote from: WhiteWings
If your answer is b].... I believe you are a woman? Say your spirit if put in a huge man.
Then what are you?
c] A new creation?
d] Same spirit with another coat?

d] hermaphrodite.


Yes, I believe I did misunderstand you. I see what you mean but nevertheless I will still be me and look the same. Doesn't reincarnation mean that you become some one different or something different? You are right in saying that we will put on a coat so to speak. It will just be a spiritual coat but it will be the same me as I am now and I believe we will be recognizable to everyone. I think we will look just like we do now.. {God forbid}.. but we will just be in spiritual bodies. 

OK, say I die and come back as a monkey,[/quote
[/quote]Maybe I should clear up a few things first. I did post something about a Jewish belief that people get many chances and if it keeps going wrong the reincarnation is a lower lifeform everytime. Then it ends and sinner becomes dust.
What I answered to that post is what fits here very well too. How can a monkey correct any mistake when it can hardly think?
I can understand that a murderer can undo the damage by becoming a very caring person in the next life. But a monkey that only has two thought in his life. Sleep and eat a bananna....

Quote
are you saying , I will look like a monkey except inside I will be CHB?  :grin: 
I think this must a learning experience from a past life when I was really rude to women. Lemme think.... Crap I feel another reincarnation coming  :laughing7:
Seriously, I can see the use of reincarnting as a person but not as an animal. Unless science is very very wrong about the metal capacity of animals...
So my answer is: In your next live you will be an angel too. :laughing7:


Quote
Are you saying that we will still be human, or can we be something else?  Now, why would God need to do all of that?
You are asking a lot of questions that are not in the verses. My answer is  a question: Why didn't God create us directly into heaven? Skip all this earth stuff. Just be created as perfect sinless spirits. Why?[/quote]

I have asked that same questions many times, the only answer I can come up with is, we need teaching to become like God.


Quote
Quote from: WhiteWings
Jesus was resurrected. People didn't recognize Him. He didn't look exactly as before.
e] It wasn't Jesus at all.
f] It was the spirit of Jesus with a new coat

f] Jesus had the same body it was just changed into spirit.

Quote from: WhitwWings
Yes, but why do you think that was? Jesus was beaten so bad he had skin hanging from his body. His face was so marred that he was unrecognizable. I guess if we chose to look different we could if we are spiritual beings, I don't know.
You can do better CHB.... :winkgrin:
Say your husband gets a really bad accident. Car crash every bone broken. 50% burn wounds. He dies a few days later. A month later I show you a year old picture of your husband. Would you recognise him? Do you think he people that knew Him for at least 3 years forgot how He looked 4 days ago?

Quote
Quote from: WhiteWings
Say by some freak accident you and your husband switch bodies.
Your mind in his body and his mind in your body.
Who are you?
g] The CHB coat you are no longer wearing?
h] Any coat your spirit wears? (the coat you call husband)

I really cannot pick either one of these because they don't apply. You see the coat was mine all along I just put it on. Paul said we "have a tent in heaven" when this body is ready to put it on, it is mine to began with, not my husbands or any one elses.

Not a chance. :laughing7:
That's not a real answer... :mshock:
Try to answer my 3 questions. Who exactly are you....
My answers are b/d/f/h
Yours?
[/quote]

Offline CHB

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #105 on: February 10, 2011, 04:16:32 AM »
Well, I sure did mess up that post didn't I? Hope you can figure it out.  :mblush:


CHB

Offline jabcat

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #106 on: February 10, 2011, 05:13:37 AM »
Some scrips to consider;

When a cloud vanishes, it is gone, So he who goes down to Sheol does not come up. "He will not return again to his house, Nor will his place know him anymore. (Job 7:9-10)

Before I go-- and I shall not return-- To the land of darkness and deep shadow; (Job 10:21)

But man dies and is laid low; he breathes his last and is no more. As water disappears from the sea or a riverbed becomes parched and dry, so man lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, men will not awake or be roused from their sleep. (Job 14:10-12)
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #107 on: February 10, 2011, 06:00:53 AM »
I like that. Very good.... Praise the Lord :happy3:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #108 on: February 10, 2011, 08:32:36 AM »
Quote from: WW
Are you saying that we will still be human, or can we be something else?  Now, why would God need to do all of that?
You are asking a lot of questions that are not in the verses. My answer is  a question: Why didn't God create us directly into heaven? Skip all this earth stuff. Just be created as perfect sinless spirits. Why?
Quote from: CHB
I have asked that same questions many times, the only answer I can come up with is, we need teaching to become like God.
Teaching. I agree. But there are always slow learners. So perhaps some need 2 attempts to pass the exams.
That's not taking away glory from Father and Son because they where the ones that came up with the teaching plan in the first place.

Quote
Quote
Quote from: WhiteWings
Say by some freak accident you and your husband switch bodies.
Your mind in his body and his mind in your body.
Who are you?
g] The CHB coat you are no longer wearing?
h] Any coat your spirit wears? (the coat you call husband)

I really cannot pick either one of these because they don't apply. You see the coat was mine all along I just put it on. Paul said we "have a tent in heaven" when this body is ready to put it on, it is mine to began with, not my husbands or any one elses.
I know it's a very difficult question. Very confusing. But in the Bible things are always about the spirit. The body often isn't seen of greta value.

Anyway  :notworthy: for your answers.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 08:40:59 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #109 on: February 10, 2011, 08:38:08 AM »
Some scrips to consider;

When a cloud vanishes, it is gone, So he who goes down to Sheol does not come up. "He will not return again to his house, Nor will his place know him anymore. (Job 7:9-10)

Before I go-- and I shall not return-- To the land of darkness and deep shadow; (Job 10:21)
Jesus returned from Sheol.


Quote
But man dies and is laid low; he breathes his last and is no more. As water disappears from the sea or a riverbed becomes parched and dry, so man lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, men will not awake or be roused from their sleep. (Job 14:10-12)
This is  a much better verse.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Nathan

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #110 on: February 10, 2011, 05:26:39 PM »
Jabcat, I so appreciate you digging up those verses.   I knew of none but at the same time, I saw no indication that we're to come back in other forms until "we get it right".  I just don't see that as God's pattern at all.  And "if" it is appointed for man once to die, how does that not also say what your verses have said as well. 

I am one who doesn't see me as flesh only, but I see "me" as a spirit that is living in this body temporarily which my soul is evidence that my spirit is living here.  It's been a while but there was some discussion as to what one's soul was and someone wrote that if you took a colored glass and overlaid it with a glass of "another" color, then a third color would appear. 

That third color represents what happens when our spirit is overlaid in these bodies of flesh, our soul is that third color that appears.  Which then answers the question as to why is it, if we die and these bodies return back to the ground and our spirits return back to the Father . . .why is it so important that in the end, we are given immortal bodies.  If we're spirits,  living in a spiritual realm, why would we "need" bodies at all?

And it's because "when" our spirits are overlaid with bodies, our soul manifests, we become complete beings.  But if you threw reincarnation into the mix, my soul in this body would have a different identity if I were to come back in another body or even form.  It adulterates my original being. 

And again, the idea that we have to keep coming back over and over until we get it right . . .that contradicts the power of the cross in the fact that there's nothing we can "do" to gain righteousness.  Just as there was nothing we "did" that caused us to be sinners, we're born into it. . .there's nothing requried for us to become saints as God took care of that as well.

If I keep coming back over and over until I get it right, then what was the reason for Jesus having to become the all-time sacrifice?  There just are no patterns in Scripture depicting men coming back to get it right . . .And "If" Elijah came back as John the Baptist . . .does that mean that Elijah didn't get it right the first time?  And If he didn't get it right, then why did God take him up in a fiery chariot then?  Assuming that he did indeed just cross over from life to life without experiencing natural death.

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #111 on: February 10, 2011, 06:04:08 PM »
Something that may be of interest in regards to sins of the fathers is the field of epigenetics. Basically the idea is that our genes are altered by our environment and those changes get passed down through the dna. Traditional genetic theory states you've got what your born with but the problem is the genome doesnt have enough genes to account for all the variations we see in humans. Its also a good scientific apologetic against darwinian evolution and mechanistic reductionism

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #112 on: February 22, 2011, 08:16:31 PM »
 :cloud9: I personally have always found that a better approach to uncover things is to press in to find what the obvious counterfeit (like reincarnation) is counterfeiting of God's truth. Satan can only mimic what God created/established; he is powerless to create anything new. My  :2c:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2011, 06:30:59 AM »
[the idea of] reincarnation..is..[not true]
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 12:45:41 AM by jabcat »
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline CHB

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #114 on: February 23, 2011, 08:05:02 PM »
Jabcat, I so appreciate you digging up those verses.   I knew of none but at the same time, I saw no indication that we're to come back in other forms until "we get it right".  I just don't see that as God's pattern at all.  And "if" it is appointed for man once to die, how does that not also say what your verses have said as well. 

I am one who doesn't see me as flesh only, but I see "me" as a spirit that is living in this body temporarily which my soul is evidence that my spirit is living here.  It's been a while but there was some discussion as to what one's soul was and someone wrote that if you took a colored glass and overlaid it with a glass of "another" color, then a third color would appear. 

That third color represents what happens when our spirit is overlaid in these bodies of flesh, our soul is that third color that appears.  Which then answers the question as to why is it, if we die and these bodies return back to the ground and our spirits return back to the Father . . .why is it so important that in the end, we are given immortal bodies.  If we're spirits,  living in a spiritual realm, why would we "need" bodies at all?

And it's because "when" our spirits are overlaid with bodies, our soul manifests, we become complete beings.  But if you threw reincarnation into the mix, my soul in this body would have a different identity if I were to come back in another body or even form.  It adulterates my original being. 

And again, the idea that we have to keep coming back over and over until we get it right . . .that contradicts the power of the cross in the fact that there's nothing we can "do" to gain righteousness.  Just as there was nothing we "did" that caused us to be sinners, we're born into it. . .there's nothing requried for us to become saints as God took care of that as well.

If I keep coming back over and over until I get it right, then what was the reason for Jesus having to become the all-time sacrifice?  There just are no patterns in Scripture depicting men coming back to get it right . . .And "If" Elijah came back as John the Baptist . . .does that mean that Elijah didn't get it right the first time?  And If he didn't get it right, then why did God take him up in a fiery chariot then?  Assuming that he did indeed just cross over from life to life without experiencing natural death.

Hi Nathan,

These have been my thoughts exactly, especially this part.

"if we die and these bodies return back to the ground and our spirits return back to the Father . . .why is it so important that in the end, we are given immortal bodies.  If we're spirits,  living in a spiritual realm, why would we "need" bodies at all"?

I know our breath, or spirit returns to God who gives it but I have heard preachers say that God would resurrect our dead bodies and put our spirits back into them. This just doesn't make any sense at all.

What I wonder is, what is  this spirit that returns to God? Is it something that understands things, knows its surroundings, can operate on it's own?  Also, what happens to the dead bodies that are in the ground? When Jesus was resurrected he was still in the body that was laid in the tomb. Otherwords, there was no body left in the tomb. Does that mean we will experience the same thing, or was Jesus the only one who gets to keep his body? Of course it is immortal now. If our spirit is aware of our surroundings and we are with God I don't see the need for a body that has decayed. How do you see this?

CHB


Offline Molly

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #115 on: February 23, 2011, 09:19:11 PM »
Good questions, CHB.


Quote from: CHB
I know our breath, or spirit returns to God who gives it but I have heard preachers say that God would resurrect our dead bodies and put our spirits back into them. This just doesn't make any sense at all.

Isn't this what happened with Jesus?  And, isn't he the firstborn of many brothers?  But, we know his body was changed because no one recognized him.  Yet, the wounds were still there.  And, this by dispensation of God less we not know for sure it was him.

Quote
If our spirit is aware of our surroundings and we are with God I don't see the need for a body that has decayed. How do you see this?

But, isn't this what God has promised us?  Who would believe the body decaying in the ground has such a complicated code in each cell that it can be identified to a certainty of one in trillions?  Doesn't that tell even the most hardened atheist something? What would be the point of that?


2 Corinthians 5:1
[ Awaiting the New Body ] For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #116 on: February 23, 2011, 11:23:27 PM »
Jesus was raised in his same body. That s why the prophecy states no bone of his was broken, also I think there is  another that says his flesh shall not see corruption. Also the angel said in the tomb , this same Jesus you seek is risen.

Also Lazarus came forth, he came forth in his grave clothes. I think this is to demonstrate that immortality does not = destruction, i.e totally new model, but immortality = enhancement or upgrade of existing matter. If one is dust which most are probably by now, then they would likely be resurected as the person they were.

I think that this is probably the biggest problem with reincarnation is that, resurection means many person could be resurected.
Take for example the resurection of those who are alive and remain, do they resurect as their current self, or do they resurect as sir Humphries who lived in 18thcentury.




Offline CHB

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #117 on: February 24, 2011, 01:47:26 AM »
Good questions, CHB.


Quote from: CHB
I know our breath, or spirit returns to God who gives it but I have heard preachers say that God would resurrect our dead bodies and put our spirits back into them. This just doesn't make any sense at all.

Quote from: Molly
Isn't this what happened with Jesus?  And, isn't he the firstborn of many brothers?  But, we know his body was changed because no one recognized him.  Yet, the wounds were still there.  And, this by dispensation of God less we not know for sure it was him.

Hi Molly,

Jesus was only in the tomb 3 days and when he was resurrected he had the body he was born with except it was immortal. I was referring to us dying and our spirits going on to be with God and many years later when we are resurrected our spirit being put back into the body this is a little different than what happened to Jesus. At least it is time wise.

Quote
If our spirit is aware of our surroundings and we are with God I don't see the need for a body that has decayed. How do you see this?

Quote from: Molly
But, isn't this what God has promised us?  Who would believe the body decaying in the ground has such a complicated code in each cell that it can be identified to a certainty of one in trillions?  Doesn't that tell even the most hardened atheist something? What would be the point of that?

2 Corinthians 5:1
[ Awaiting the New Body ] For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

I guess what I can't understand is, why put spirits that have been with God for thousands of years back into a decayed body that will be changed anyway? I guess that is why I have leaned more to the idea that we will sleep till Christ comes back and gets us. I am still open to change though if proven wrong.

CHB

Offline Molly

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #118 on: February 24, 2011, 03:28:45 AM »
I think some will sleep, CHB, but we shall not all sleep

but we all will be changed.

I believe we have a spirit body, as well,  that closely resembles our physical body.   Remember Saul raising Samuel?  They knew who he was.  They recognized him.

But if you read the dry bones passage, they are actually resurrecting the physical bodies from dry bones.

Offline Molly

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #119 on: February 24, 2011, 03:36:22 AM »
 1 The hand of the LORD was on me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the LORD and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones. 2 He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. 3 He asked me, "Son of man, can these bones live?"
   I said, "Sovereign LORD, you alone know."

 4 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them, 'Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5 This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.'"

 7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.

 9 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come, breath, from the four winds and breathe into these slain, that they may live.'" 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.

 11 Then he said to me: "Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.' 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.'"

--Eze 37

Offline thinktank

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #120 on: February 24, 2011, 03:50:17 AM »
Good questions, CHB.


Quote from: CHB
I know our breath, or spirit returns to God who gives it but I have heard preachers say that God would resurrect our dead bodies and put our spirits back into them. This just doesn't make any sense at all.

Quote from: Molly
Isn't this what happened with Jesus?  And, isn't he the firstborn of many brothers?  But, we know his body was changed because no one recognized him.  Yet, the wounds were still there.  And, this by dispensation of God less we not know for sure it was him.

Hi Molly,

Jesus was only in the tomb 3 days and when he was resurrected he had the body he was born with except it was immortal. I was referring to us dying and our spirits going on to be with God and many years later when we are resurrected our spirit being put back into the body this is a little different than what happened to Jesus. At least it is time wise.

Quote
If our spirit is aware of our surroundings and we are with God I don't see the need for a body that has decayed. How do you see this?

Quote from: Molly
But, isn't this what God has promised us?  Who would believe the body decaying in the ground has such a complicated code in each cell that it can be identified to a certainty of one in trillions?  Doesn't that tell even the most hardened atheist something? What would be the point of that?

2 Corinthians 5:1
[ Awaiting the New Body ] For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

I guess what I can't understand is, why put spirits that have been with God for thousands of years back into a decayed body that will be changed anyway? I guess that is why I have leaned more to the idea that we will sleep till Christ comes back and gets us. I am still open to change though if proven wrong.

CHB

I have exactly the same question as you chb and Nathan also. A possible answer or at least an aspect of it, is that the raising of the bodies is for the benefot for those people who are left, so they witness the resurection of the saints and some might believe on Jesus and repent.

But I don't think it is merely for their benefit. I think it is as Nathan said, that our souls or our bodies carry information or experiences about ourselves that our spirit does not have, or may not experience life quite the same, without the body.
Having a body makes life more personal, perhaps if we only had our spirit body then, we would experience life more in simultude to water, that goes like the wind, and flows here and there, but having our bodies resurected we can have more direct local experiences and drink tea and eat fish with Jesus around a campfire, instead of just flying through the sky with our minds. So what I gather is that our spirit life, we think, but in our bodies ,we experience that thought.



Offline reFORMer

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view
« Reply #121 on: February 24, 2011, 07:18:39 AM »
Understand, we are being made in His image and likeness.  With "His eye...in everyplace to behold the evil and the good," what must His face be like?  Resurrection to immortality is a beginning necessary for ascension.  (This shows the many claims that a dead guru is an ascended Master are false and that they have no right to be in us.)

Another thing better fitted to reality is that in the body of Christ, "We are members of one another."  Rather than many bodies through reincarnation we have many bodies through the Spirit of God.  In Hindu beliefs it seems reincarnation postpones the goal of transcending physicality.  They seek to attain to an immaterial higher reality.  Jesus, by incarnating and by resurrecting, sanctified the realm of embodiment.

There is salvation for spirit, soul, and body.  The influx of Greek mysticism when the men who had studied Greko-Roman Rhetoric became the first "Christian" priests, paid for by the Roman Empire under Constantine, brought the shattering of one man into a hierarchy of parts.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?
« Reply #122 on: February 26, 2011, 06:53:15 PM »
 :cloud9: Amen  :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Nathan

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Well, for me, I still think that for a soul to manifest, there needs to be a merging of spirit and body.  And these bodies we're in are not currently eternal bodies, which then tells me that the manifestation of my soul is temporary as well.  Yet my spirit will continue to exist for the duration until this realm has run it's course and we'll all have our spirits return to these bodies, but they'll then be imortalized FOR THE PURPOSE OF OUR SOULS TO MANIFEST AS A WHOLE BEING with which we'll live as living stones in the body of Christ on a corporate measure.

God didn't create a soul in which he then put in Adam.  He created the container of clay and breathed into it his life spirit at which point IT BECAME a LIVING SOUL.  The spirit of man is the image of God.  The soul of man is the COMPLETION of who we are in God.  It's the little green light on the front of your tv that is now illuminated to indicate there is power to the television.  Without the power, the light no longer shines.  Without breath, our soul no longer manifest.  When you plug it back in, the light comes back on.  When our spirit returns, our soul again manifests.

I guess you could say that's the difference between literal angels and humans.  An angel can take on the form of a body, but a human can only manifest "in" a body.  Thsi body is limited.  It's confined to the laws of this realm.  But this realm is temporary, the natural will not be predominant forever.  We all know and sense that Spirit is greater than flesh, even though flesh is the predominant part of us.  It's all we "see" with our natural eyes.  But without it, we couldn't manifest our natures at all. 

I don't think when we die we'll forever be just spirits.  I believe we'll have bodies that become eternal through which our spirit manifests in the vehicles of our soul.  I think I'm giving myself a headache in all of this . . .