Author Topic: Reincarnation a devil's lie ?Is it acceptable from a Christian point of view?  (Read 10663 times)

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SonicSpeed

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I am writing this topic due to a research documentary that i have watched and seing people and even small children there speaking that they were another person and reincarnated ,just makes me feel sick . Since you are christians ...do you think that this really exists ?
Do scriptures say anything about it ?Some christians believe that this is the devil's doing (fallen angels inflicting hallutinations etc etc..)

Of my own point of view :It is morally evil since it assumes deleting people's memories (in most of people ) and sending them again to a lower and restricted form ,instead of loving them .


Offline WhiteWings

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I haven't found any verse that supports reincarnation.
But there are verses that at least hint toward pre-existance.
If pre-existance is true that also means
Quote
deleting people's memories (in most of people ) and sending them again to a lower and restricted form ,instead of loving them .

For what it's worth.... I once read a short article about a 3(?) year old child that was alone in the bedroom with his newly born baby brother/sister.
His parents listened with the babyphone (don't know how it's called in English)
The boy said: "Tell me about our Father, I'm starting to forget about Him"

Again what's worth NDEs quite often say that we are here by our own choice/request.

Ok, back on-topic. Personally I'm not sure but purely based on verses I would give it at least a 60% change of pre-existance.
Reincarnation I give a 10% chance. Not because I found scriptual support for it but because I don't claim to remember/understand all verses. So something may have slipped under my radar  :OhNo:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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No.  :thumbdown:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Paul Hazelwood

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I think reincarnation as typically thought is not supported by the bible, however there is biblical suggestion that we pre existed in some form which still could be reincarnation of some form,  just not necessarily the type where we might come back on this earth as a tree or a cow in india.

Matthew 11:11-15 


Offline Molly

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We do come from God and all you have to do is look into a newborn baby's eyes --totally aware and totally innocent--to know that baby has come from another world.

No reincarnation in the Bible, but I do strongly believe that we have a genetic memory that is passed down to us physically.

No problem there.  On even a local level, all immune responses depend on genetic memory.

Paul Hazelwood

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We do come from God and all you have to do is look into a newborn baby's eyes --totally aware and totally innocent--to know that baby has come from another world.

No reincarnation in the Bible, but I do strongly believe that we have a genetic memory that is passed down to us physically.

No problem there.  On even a local level, all immune responses depend on genetic memory.


Reincarnation is largely about the spirit and little to do with physical forms.   Most reincarnation beliefs are to do with history repeating until the players eventually get it right.   I am not sure that is too far fetched, I mean, if eternal hell isn't true, then I believe there is some means in place so that we learn.

However the basic tenants of reincarnation can be found in the bible and this has to do with the spirit from one form manifesting in another.

Offline Nancy

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It sort of makes sense to me!
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2010, 11:38:39 PM »
Hi there all,
I agree with you Paul if you are saying that there is a possiblitity that there is reincarnation.

To me it sort of makes sense, in the way that some people seem to live lifes' full of pain and hardship and others seem to live a life of ease and plenty. To me why should this be so. 
Also when nations seem to suffer together as in wars or genocide, etc. Maybe they inflicted that also on other nations and they are reaping their karma. 
When Jesus said you reap what you sow, it doesn't make sense if He was talking about getting rewards or punishments only when we die.  And we only live and die once when there are so many eons of time!
Just a theory perhaps!

Also i wonder why certain eras in history appeal to me, such as ancient Egyptian and medieval France to name two.  Maybe i was born into those eras.  Another thought to ponder on!

Godbless
Nancy

Quaesitor

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Quote
For what it's worth.... I once read a short article about a 3(?) year old child that was alone in the bedroom with his newly born baby brother/sister.
His parents listened with the babyphone (don't know how it's called in English)
The boy said: "Tell me about our Father, I'm starting to forget about Him"

I doubt this to be true but it sure is a great story, brings a sort of nostalgia.
How lonely must have Jesus felt away from the Father's presence.

 :hijacked:

sorry

Offline thinktank

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There is possibility that reincarnation is true and could be the missing link in UR belief. I.e those that do not believe in Jesus perish and must reincarnate, but those that do believe in him shall never die and will keep their present existence to the next life.

That's just one view on things , I have many different viewpoints, angles on this as you can imagine  :laughing7:

E.g another view is that we reincarnate and those that believe on Jesus who die, get to reincarnate with a fresh new clean spirit, while those who die in their sins, have to reincarnate with their sins still in their spirit, thus causing them problems as they grow up, because we reap what we sow.

This idea is found in a scripture that says, "Those who leave mother father, houses will be given ,wifes etc far more in this life and the life to come"

So how can a man who forsakes all to follow Jesus receive far more in this life? How can this promise be fullfilled without reincarnation?

In another verse, the Jews ask Jesus did this blind man from birth sin or his parents?
How could the blind man sin in his mothers womb? It suggests that the Jews knowledge was that reincarnation was part of their beliefs.

I'm not a believer in reincarnation, but I'm looking at the possibility.
 :2c:



Offline WhiteWings

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In another verse, the Jews ask Jesus did this blind man from birth sin or his parents?
How could the blind man sin in his mothers womb? It suggests that the Jews knowledge was that reincarnation was part of their beliefs.
I think the part about sin is not only a Jewish belief.
People inherit sin (from Adam) http://www.gotquestions.org/inherit-sin.html
There is also a verse that the punishment of sin can last 3/4 generations. And I think that was the thing they were refering to. They assumed the man was blind because his (grand)parents sinned.

Exodus 20:5 Thou dost not bow thyself to them, nor serve them: for I, Jehovah thy God, am a zealous God, charging iniquity of fathers on sons, on the third generation , and on the fourth, of those hating Me,

http://mercynotsacrifice.blogspot.com/2009/06/who-sinned-blind-man-or-his-parents.html
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Could be, but why did they ask if this man sinned?

Offline WhiteWings

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I have no idea.
I know there is a good article discussing it. I'll post it if I find it.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Beloved Servant

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Could be, but why did they ask if this man sinned?


John 9:3
Jesus answered, 'Neither did this one sin nor his parents, but that the works of God may be manifested in him;

Offline thinktank

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I have no idea.
I know there is a good article discussing it. I'll post it if I find it.
wings
Ok, great.


I have found another powerful verse which  could support reincarnation, I have not seen this verse discussed before, so I think I could be the first, to boldly go where no man has gone before, although I think the boldy is a bit of an exageration  :laughing7:

The scripture says "occupy till I come"

That to me could support reincarnation, that we are to occupy until the time of the resurection. Since occupying is an earthly activity and he does not come until the end of the age, perhaps reincarnation is the method in how we "occupy" through this age, until christ returns to resurect the dead, to set up his earthly kingdom and destroys the beast or the statue of Daniel.

Offline thinktank

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Could be, but why did they ask if this man sinned?


John 9:3
Jesus answered, 'Neither did this one sin nor his parents, but that the works of God may be manifested in him;


It just came to me a possible explanation for it and against it. The against it idea of reincarnation for this verse is that since All have sinned and come short of the glory, then Jesus is saying that this man could not possibly have existed before, because he did not sin, and since all sin....

But For the idea of reincarnation, Jesus said that his parents did not sin, and it is certain that they did exist. So they must have lived a godly life, but Jesus also said that the man did not sin, indicating that just like the parents who lived a godly life, this man also lived a godly life before entering the womb, his blindness was not that he sinned in a previous life, but to demonstrate the power of God to heal.

The scripture says. Jabob have I loved and Esau I hated in their womb. Perhaps Esau was the reincarnation of someone that did evil to Gods prophets or people.
 :2c:

Offline Beloved Servant

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Sounds twisted to me.
 :2c:

Offline WhiteWings

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I have found another powerful verse which  could support reincarnation, I have not seen this verse discussed before, so I think I could be the first, to boldly go where no man has gone before, although I think the boldy is a bit of an exageration  :laughing7:
Then just keep going baldly :winkgrin:
Quote
The scripture says "occupy till I come"
YLTLuke 19
13 and having called ten servants of his own, he gave to them ten pounds, and said unto them, Do business--till I come;

Where does the reincarnation fit in?


Quote
That to me could support reincarnation, that we are to occupy until the time of the resurection. Since occupying is an earthly activity and he does not come until the end of the age, perhaps reincarnation is the method in how we "occupy" through this age, until christ returns to resurect the dead, to set up his earthly kingdom and destroys the beast or the statue of Daniel.
For me reincarnation is not resurrection. Or better resurrection is jsut a small part of it.
It's living now and for example also have lived a 1000 years ago on earth.
Or do you mean in another creation????
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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 :cloud9: From what I've read, it has been proposed that the Jews that were in the Babylonian captivity brought the doctrine back with them from Babylon. All pagan religions have a witchcraft element to them, but the Egyptians, Chaldeans, and Babylonians seemed especially interested in trying to "perfect" it.  :laughing7:

Reincarnation is a works based doctrine, ie. if you're "good enough" you won't have to come back. Yet we're told that there is none good but the Father.

The root of all witchcraft is to ascend our "throne" (heart/soul/mind) above the Most High, yet we are told that NO MAN can by taking thought (carnal mind imaginings) add one cubit to his stature (spiritual maturity of Christ).

These stories of kids remembering lives are from familiar spirits they either inherited thru their bloodline, or received from their parent's present participation in some form of witchcraft. Witchcraft is one spirit, but it has many manifestations.

For what it's worth; I can tell you from personal experience in deliverance ministry mode, that a spirit of reincarnation, like all witchcraft rooted spirits, is PARTICULARLY nasty to deal with. My  :2c: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline thinktank

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I have found another powerful verse which  could support reincarnation, I have not seen this verse discussed before, so I think I could be the first, to boldly go where no man has gone before, although I think the boldy is a bit of an exageration  :laughing7:
Then just keep going baldly :winkgrin:
Quote

 :laughing7:

The scripture says "occupy till I come"
YLTLuke 19
13 and having called ten servants of his own, he gave to them ten pounds, and said unto them, Do business--till I come;

Where does the reincarnation fit in?

Well if one belives that Jesus will return, as in jude "he will return with 10 thousand of his saints"
Or as in the gospels "This same Jesus will return in like manner as you see him go"

So as Jesus returns at the end to gather his elect from the four corners of the earth. This scripture indicates that we are to occupy till his return, someone in the grave for a thousand years cannot occupy, so they have failed the test before they even started, because Jesus said "occupy till I come"


Quote
That to me could support reincarnation, that we are to occupy until the time of the resurection. Since occupying is an earthly activity and he does not come until the end of the age, perhaps reincarnation is the method in how we "occupy" through this age, until christ returns to resurect the dead, to set up his earthly kingdom and destroys the beast or the statue of Daniel.
For me reincarnation is not resurrection. Or better resurrection is jsut a small part of it.
It's living now and for example also have lived a 1000 years ago on earth.
Or do you mean in another creation????

To me reincarnation means, one's body has to die and their spirit, waits their turn and then has to incarnate again, but resurection means one's body becomes immortal. This mortal puts on immortality, so they no longer have to incarnate, they become as Jesus, immortal.
It is indeed a challenge to see how reincarnation can fit into the puzzle, but it could be that those without christ must reincarnate until they accept Jesus as saviour, while people such as apostle Paul, no longer have to reincarnate, because they have accepted Jesus as saviour. But this is just one viewpoint, one can take many views on this doctrine e.g perhaps the apsolte paul does have to incarnate again, until he he given an imoortal body that does not die at the time of the last trumpet resurection.



Offline thinktank

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:cloud9: From what I've read, it has been proposed that the Jews that were in the Babylonian captivity brought the doctrine back with them from Babylon. All pagan religions have a witchcraft element to them, but the Egyptians, Chaldeans, and Babylonians seemed especially interested in trying to "perfect" it.  :laughing7:

Reincarnation is a works based doctrine, ie. if you're "good enough" you won't have to come back. Yet we're told that there is none good but the Father.

The root of all witchcraft is to ascend our "throne" (heart/soul/mind) above the Most High, yet we are told that NO MAN can by taking thought (carnal mind imaginings) add one cubit to his stature (spiritual maturity of Christ).

These stories of kids remembering lives are from familiar spirits they either inherited thru their bloodline, or received from their parent's present participation in some form of witchcraft. Witchcraft is one spirit, but it has many manifestations.

For what it's worth; I can tell you from personal experience in deliverance ministry mode, that a spirit of reincarnation, like all witchcraft rooted spirits, is PARTICULARLY nasty to deal with. My  :2c: Blessings....

It depends on the philosophy behind it. E,g buddism says one must obtain good karma by being good and eventually end up being perfect i.e a works based doctrine. But from a christian viewpoint one can see it as another opportunity for a person to receive christ as saviour. There are many people in this world who barely live to 20 years old or a kid even who dies. What kind of a spirit will that kid be, they would not have experinced life here on earth. Reincarnation gives a spirit many opportunities to live a full life and learn and grow and learn to humble oneself and accept christ as saviour.

Since there are a limited amount of people at a certain time, then it means that a spirit would only have a limited amount of chances i.e 2 or 3 lives perhaps and not hundreds. I think people could handle 2 or 3 deaths, I think hundreds would be cruelty.
 :2c:

Offline WhiteWings

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Many people share your view/thought TT. They are Hindoe (I think)
But is it a Christan concept?
Pre-existence I see (some) support for in the Bible.
But for reincarnation I've not seen any support (yet).
Ok, you could argue there are no verses that refute the idea. In that line of thinking we can discuss/assume billions of things
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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I think the strongest case is John the baptist. Jesus said "If you are willing to accept it, this is Elijah that was to come"

This might be an exception for Elijah, e.g only Elijah reincarnates, because hes a powerful man. But again it could be the rule and not the exception, just that Jesus decided to tell people that this was Elijah, most people don't know who they were in previous lives, but Jesus knows who we were and so tells them that John is Elijah, but John the baptist is unaware, so he says I'm not Elijah.

 :2c:

Offline Cardinal

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 :cloud9: And the Spirit (prophetic anointing) that was on Elijah DID come on the John the baptist, and continues to come.

As it's root in that capacity of experiencing Christ, that aspect of His nature comes to uncover/reveal/unveil the Spirit of Christ while bringing judgment/correction to the flesh, within and upon the fleshly body of the church. And so we see, "it" manifesting in Revelation, uncovering Christ in the 7 churches (fullness of His body incarnate), while bringing correction at the same time.

The Word that is Spirit, is a two edged sword; what manifests as fire to the flesh, manifests as water to the seed of Christ within the individual. You have to have water and fire to make bread, fit for the nations to eat.

HOWEVER: what you are really looking for is the reality that exists in Christ, that the doctrine of reincarnation, is a counterfeit OF.
Blessings.....

Hebrews 7: 9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. 10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 01:22:50 AM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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I think the strongest case is John the baptist. Jesus said "If you are willing to accept it, this is Elijah that was to come"
That's weird. There are several discussions about the translation of Elijah. Was he transported to heaven was he moved to another place and died there.
If he died it means he reincarnated into John the baptist.
If he didn't die it means he was 'translated' into an unborn child.
 :dontknow:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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@cardinal
I've hears that explanation before, it doesn't make much sense to me. I.e the power anointing of Elijah is upon you.....

Notice the problem

1. It brings glory to Elijah
2. Why not say the spirit of Christ, for the spirit of Christ is more powerful than Elijah's, because Elijah was but a man, Jesus was a perfect man, even the Son of God and fullfilled the law.


Would it not make more sense to say the power of Christ is upon John the baptist. But they who explain the scripture concerning elijah being John the baptist, say it means the power anointing of Elijah and not elijah himself.

Notice also that the disciples said "who do men say that I am" said Christ

Some say you are elias, others jeremiah the prophet. Why would they say this unless reincarnation was a part of their beliefs?

Concenring the Hebrews scripture, I think your saying that this scripture says that he wasn't even alive yet, so reincarnation must be incorrect. But remember that the old testament was thousands of years ago and that was the begining of people incarnating and due to the limited amount of people at that time, only a few spirits could incarnate.


I'm not sure about reincarnation for the general public yet, but I think there is support for Elijah reincarnating, which means it is a possibility.

 :2c: