Author Topic: Follow the law.  (Read 1795 times)

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Offline Seth

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #75 on: November 10, 2014, 12:43:56 AM »
To me the biggest problem with the Law,
 is the effect my knowledge of the Law
 has on my ability to Love my neighbor.

I could know my neighbor was a Law breaker.
Especially if I know more about the Law than I do about my neighbor.

Most of us are not Spiritual enough to be able to Love our neighbor,
while hating that he breaks the Law.
It is hard to hate evil and Love our neighbor when the Law makes them one.

To me, that makes the Law the problem rather than man. But Paul says in Romans 7 that the Law is holy and good. Therefore, the real problem has never been with the Law but with man. If man uses the Law to judge his neighbor, I see that as a continual problem with the carnal nature within him, not the Law itself. For as Paul said,

2 Tim 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness


If that is the case, then how could having knowledge of the Law be the problem in itself?

How could the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, be a problem?

It wasn't a problem, for God himself said "they have become like us in knowing good and evil." It was the disobedience that was the problem.

The LORD God said, "Since man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil, he must not reach out, take from the tree of life, eat, and live forever."The problem 23 So the LORD God sent him away from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken.24 He drove man out and stationed the cherubim and the flaming, whirling sword east of the garden of Eden to guard the way to the tree of life.

The problem wasn't with knowledge, but disobedience. If the problem was the knowledge itself, God himself would die for he had the same knowledge.

Offline Seth

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #76 on: November 10, 2014, 01:00:12 AM »
Should we judge others as we judge ourselves.

Having knowledge of the Law does not necessitate being judgemental brother.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #77 on: November 10, 2014, 02:17:33 AM »
To me the biggest problem with the Law,
 is the effect my knowledge of the Law
 has on my ability to Love my neighbor.

I could know my neighbor was a Law breaker.
Especially if I know more about the Law than I do about my neighbor.

Most of us are not Spiritual enough to be able to Love our neighbor,
while hating that he breaks the Law.
It is hard to hate evil and Love our neighbor when the Law makes them one.

To me, that makes the Law the problem rather than man. But Paul says in Romans 7 that the Law is holy and good. Therefore, the real problem has never been with the Law but with man. If man uses the Law to judge his neighbor, I see that as a continual problem with the carnal nature within him, not the Law itself. For as Paul said,

2 Tim 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness


If that is the case, then how could having knowledge of the Law be the problem in itself?

How could the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, be a problem?

It wasn't a problem, for God himself said "they have become like us in knowing good and evil." It was the disobedience that was the problem.

The LORD God said, "Since man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil, he must not reach out, take from the tree of life, eat, and live forever."The problem 23 So the LORD God sent him away from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken.24 He drove man out and stationed the cherubim and the flaming, whirling sword east of the garden of Eden to guard the way to the tree of life.

The problem wasn't with knowledge, but disobedience. If the problem was the knowledge itself, God himself would die for he had the same knowledge.

Of coarse God would not die .
He was not evil he was Good he was not disobedient and he had the knowledge of being Good.

It was the knowledge of disobedience (the Law).

If man ate from the tree of Life he would have been forever separated from God.
Man would have the knowledge of his disobedience and therefore could never be one with God .

It was the knowledge of Man's disobedience that must be wiped from the mind of Man. (erased)
Faith in the knowledge that we have been made righteous.
We are dead to our relationship with the Law.   

Offline Seth

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #78 on: November 10, 2014, 02:24:18 AM »
God himself had knowledge of man's disobedience. Again, not the problem. Jesus Christ himself knew of man's disobedience. Not the problem.

Sin in the flesh is the problem.

PAUL TELLS US THAT ALL SCRIPTURE IS VALUABLE FOR CORRECTION AND INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

That's pointless for him to say if knowledge of the Law is the problem.

Offline rosered

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2014, 03:22:54 PM »
God himself had knowledge of man's disobedience. Again, not the problem. Jesus Christ himself knew of man's disobedience. Not the problem.

Sin in the flesh is the problem.

PAUL TELLS US THAT ALL SCRIPTURE IS VALUABLE FOR CORRECTION AND INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

That's pointless for him to say if knowledge of the Law is the problem.

 For me ,      the Knowledge comes and  goes    though the experiences of the Law being in effect , its force     changes us temporarily     
  like being dipped in water does after a bath  you feel better   for a  time
  but its not     life changing   like being born again   is , and was not offered till the fullness of time had come by Gods plan [revealing of Jesus Christ]  from night to Day
 
  this only comes though Jesus Christ ,  the law of Moses was the shadow  of the good things to come     
 
  the shadow is   a covering    , God made sure the    sins would not  be counted against any in the shadow   of ignorance         
 He winked at it   up to the Time  of Jesus Christ and Him crucified [ the change of covenants ]       ACTS 17   declares it , Paul  whom was Saul     and  killed many   new born babes in Christ   /Christians       thinking in ignorance he was doing God a service , getting rid of all these new   and unknown   following / religion  and this new one that goes against the  very traditions of men !!

death reigned  from Adam   till Moses   than the Law of God     reigned
 very few  true prophets were called out of the world over the course of time  /age     from Moses to Jesus Christ     and all were  considered mad   and totally against     the gods they worshiped  as many were  deceived    in the masses     /seas of humanity   all ignorant   and in the dark  and still had no light  , but the moon   /shadows  , they saw something but not clearly   
 
 God winked at   the ignorance   29"Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.

30"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."  the DAY IS JESUS CHRIST
 Many   sons of God The True One would come though , be  born from the dead ,  this one of a kind SON OF GOD      in one Day ! Christ  is that One Day
 
 and the new covenant being established in the earth    ...   this is the promises of God all was waiting for that had     the   faith    of   the shadow /moon  Law of Moses   to look forward too    and would inherit all things ..      Jesus Christ is all things     
  all  come out of Him and all will be    brought back into Him      to be given to the FATHER     COMPLETE /WHOLE  and entire   without end and without lack

 LIFE      IN   TOTAL    COMPLETION "' SPIRIT&TRUTH "'     these two things will    be all in all        :flowerred:

 
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2014, 07:12:57 PM »
God himself had knowledge of man's disobedience. Again, not the problem. Jesus Christ himself knew of man's disobedience. Not the problem.

Sin in the flesh is the problem.

PAUL TELLS US THAT ALL SCRIPTURE IS VALUABLE FOR CORRECTION AND INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

That's pointless for him to say if knowledge of the Law is the problem.

God himself had knowledge of man's disobedience.
God said as far as the east is from the west I will remember no more.
 Again, not the problem.

Jesus Christ himself knew of man's disobedience.
Jesus Christ himself knew of his obedience to the cross.
 Not the problem. If wasn't a problem why was he sweating blood?

Sin in the flesh is the problem.
Sin in the flesh is not a problem when the flesh is dead.

PAUL TELLS US THAT ALL SCRIPTURE IS VALUABLE FOR CORRECTION AND INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

That's pointless for him to say if knowledge of the Law is the problem.

A person filled with the holy spirit does not need instruction or correction.
God can only be worshiped in Spirit .
Once again I will say in my opinion you cannot
 have a relationship with God through the Law.

You will always disconnect yourself or should I say the line goes dead.
Your end goes dead, your phone is obsolete.
The Law is not connected to anything.
 

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2014, 07:14:27 PM »
God himself had knowledge of man's disobedience. Again, not the problem. Jesus Christ himself knew of man's disobedience. Not the problem.

Sin in the flesh is the problem.

PAUL TELLS US THAT ALL SCRIPTURE IS VALUABLE FOR CORRECTION AND INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

That's pointless for him to say if knowledge of the Law is the problem.

 For me ,      the Knowledge comes and  goes    though the experiences of the Law being in effect , its force     changes us temporarily     
  like being dipped in water does after a bath  you feel better   for a  time
  but its not     life changing   like being born again   is , and was not offered till the fullness of time had come by Gods plan [revealing of Jesus Christ]  from night to Day
 
  this only comes though Jesus Christ ,  the law of Moses was the shadow  of the good things to come     
 
  the shadow is   a covering    , God made sure the    sins would not  be counted against any in the shadow   of ignorance         
 He winked at it   up to the Time  of Jesus Christ and Him crucified [ the change of covenants ]       ACTS 17   declares it , Paul  whom was Saul     and  killed many   new born babes in Christ   /Christians       thinking in ignorance he was doing God a service , getting rid of all these new   and unknown   following / religion  and this new one that goes against the  very traditions of men !!

death reigned  from Adam   till Moses   than the Law of God     reigned
 very few  true prophets were called out of the world over the course of time  /age     from Moses to Jesus Christ     and all were  considered mad   and totally against     the gods they worshiped  as many were  deceived    in the masses     /seas of humanity   all ignorant   and in the dark  and still had no light  , but the moon   /shadows  , they saw something but not clearly   
 
 God winked at   the ignorance   29"Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.

30"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."  the DAY IS JESUS CHRIST
 Many   sons of God The True One would come though , be  born from the dead ,  this one of a kind SON OF GOD      in one Day ! Christ  is that One Day
 
 and the new covenant being established in the earth    ...   this is the promises of God all was waiting for that had     the   faith    of   the shadow /moon  Law of Moses   to look forward too    and would inherit all things ..      Jesus Christ is all things     
  all  come out of Him and all will be    brought back into Him      to be given to the FATHER     COMPLETE /WHOLE  and entire   without end and without lack

 LIFE      IN   TOTAL    COMPLETION "' SPIRIT&TRUTH "'     these two things will    be all in all        :flowerred:

 :iagree:

Offline Seth

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #82 on: November 10, 2014, 07:23:58 PM »
God himself had knowledge of man's disobedience. Again, not the problem. Jesus Christ himself knew of man's disobedience. Not the problem.

Sin in the flesh is the problem.

PAUL TELLS US THAT ALL SCRIPTURE IS VALUABLE FOR CORRECTION AND INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

That's pointless for him to say if knowledge of the Law is the problem.

God himself had knowledge of man's disobedience.
God said as far as the east is from the west I will remember no more.

In reference to past sins forgiven. I can show you a plethora of scripture that show that God is keenly aware of man's disobedience, when he tramples on the Son of God and counts the blood of the covenant a common thing.


Quote
Again, not the problem.

Jesus Christ himself knew of man's disobedience.
Jesus Christ himself knew of his obedience to the cross.
 Not the problem. If wasn't a problem why was he sweating blood?

"Not a problem" in the sense that knowing man's disobedience was not a negative trait for him, nor did it make him judgmental that he knows the Law.

Quote
Sin in the flesh is the problem.
Sin in the flesh is not a problem when the flesh is dead.

Which demonstrates that knowledge of the Law is not a problem, but the sin in the flesh is the problem....when the flesh is alive. When the flesh is dead, one may know the Law and still not be judgmental and legalistic toward his brother.


Quote
A person filled with the holy spirit does not need instruction or correction.
God can only be worshiped in Spirit .
Once again I will say in my opinion you cannot
 have a relationship with God through the Law.

You are changing your argument. You began by saying that knowledge of the Law was the problem, and now you are saying that you cannot have a relationship with God through the Law. I agree with the latter, but I still disagree with the former.

The problem has never been with the Law itself but with man's carnal nature. People who have the Holy Spirit still need instruction, which is why the epistles were written. they were written to people who had the Holy Spirit, weren't they?


« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 07:43:20 PM by Seth »

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2014, 07:52:20 PM »
God himself had knowledge of man's disobedience. Again, not the problem. Jesus Christ himself knew of man's disobedience. Not the problem.

Sin in the flesh is the problem.

PAUL TELLS US THAT ALL SCRIPTURE IS VALUABLE FOR CORRECTION AND INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

That's pointless for him to say if knowledge of the Law is the problem.

God himself had knowledge of man's disobedience.
God said as far as the east is from the west I will remember no more.

In reference to past sins forgiven. I can show you a plethora of scripture that show that God is keenly aware of man's disobedience, when he tramples on the Son of God and counts the blood of the covenant a common thing.

The best way for man to trample on the Son of God and count the blood of the covenant a common thing is to reinsert the Law.

 Gal 5;4 You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.
[/size]
Quote
Again, not the problem.

Jesus Christ himself knew of man's disobedience.
Jesus Christ himself knew of his obedience to the cross.
 Not the problem. If wasn't a problem why was he sweating blood?

"Not a problem" in the sense that knowing man's disobedience was not a negative trait for him, nor did it make him judgmental that he knows the Law.

Why did he say my God my God why have you forsaken me?

Quote
Sin in the flesh is the problem.
Sin in the flesh is not a problem when the flesh is dead.

Which demonstrates that knowledge of the Law is not a problem, but the sin in the flesh is the problem. When the flesh is dead, one may know the Law and still not be judgmental and legalistic toward his brother.

If your flesh is dead you have no use of the Law.
Erase your knowledge of the Law and replace it with the knowledge of Christ and him crucified.

[/size]

Quote
A person filled with the holy spirit does not need instruction or correction.
God can only be worshiped in Spirit .
Once again I will say in my opinion you cannot
 have a relationship with God through the Law.

You are changing your argument. You began by saying that knowledge of the Law was the problem, and now you are saying that you cannot have a relationship with God through the Law. I agree with the latter, but I still disagree with the former.

If it does not enhance your relationship with God then what use is it.
It has no use other than huff and puff.
[/size]

The problem has never been with the Law itself but with man's carnal nature. People who have the Holy Spirit still need instruction, which is why the epistles were written. they were written to people who had the Holy Spirit, weren't they?

[color=green]Can you have the Holy Spirit and a carnal nature?[/color]
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 07:55:36 PM by dajomaco »

Offline Seth

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2014, 08:03:55 PM »
Quote
If your flesh is dead you have no use of the Law.
Erase your knowledge of the Law and replace it with the knowledge of Christ and him crucified.

There is no need to erase knowledge. Ignorance is not the key.

Romans 7
11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


Paul identifies the problem being sin, not the Law. The Law is holy, just and good, and that which is holy just and good does not need to have knowledge of it erased.


Quote
The best way for man to trample on the Son of God and count the blood of the covenant a common thing is to reinsert the Law.

 Gal 5;4 You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

You are conflating two separate issues. Nobody is saying we have to live by the Law. But having knowledge of the Law is not a barrier to living and walking by the Spirit. Such ignorance is not necessary.

Quote
If it does not enhance your relationship with God then what use is it.
It has no use other than huff and puff.

Since the Apostles used the Law and Prophets to teach about Christ and the Bereans searched the scriptures to see if they were true, I can conclude that knowledge of the scripture can indeed enhance our relationship. The scripture is not "huff and puff" brother. I would be a bit less irreverent when it comes to the scripture. Calling it "huff and puff" is pretty derisive.

Quote
Can you have the Holy Spirit and a carnal nature?

Of course.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #85 on: November 10, 2014, 08:12:06 PM »
Since the Apostles used the Law and Prophets to teach about Christ and the Bereans searched the scriptures to see if they were true, I can conclude that knowledge of the scripture can indeed enhance our relationship. The scripture is not "huff and puff" brother. I would be a bit less irreverent when it comes to the scripture. Calling it "huff and puff" is pretty derisive.

Thank you for the sincerity of your warning :rolllol:

Offline Seth

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #86 on: November 10, 2014, 08:13:11 PM »
Since the Apostles used the Law and Prophets to teach about Christ and the Bereans searched the scriptures to see if they were true, I can conclude that knowledge of the scripture can indeed enhance our relationship. The scripture is not "huff and puff" brother. I would be a bit less irreverent when it comes to the scripture. Calling it "huff and puff" is pretty derisive.

Thank you for the sincerity of your warning :rolllol:

Go ahead and laugh...

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #87 on: November 10, 2014, 08:16:29 PM »
If it does not enhance your relationship with God then what use is it.
It has no use other than huff and puff.[/size]

Calling( does not enhance your relationship with God)Scripture

And then warn me is laughable. :eek:
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 10:13:13 PM by dajomaco »

Offline Seth

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #88 on: November 10, 2014, 08:20:04 PM »
If it does not enhance your relationship with God then what use is it.
It has no use other than huff and puff.[/size]

Calling( does not enhance your relationship with God)Scripture

And then warn me is laughable. :eek:

First, I didn't warn you. I made a suggestion.

Second, you stated that the problem is with the Law itself. I have simply showed you that the problem never was with the Law. Then you said that we ought to erase our knowledge of the Law your reasoning being that it does not enhance our relationship with God, calling it huff and puff. I believe that is derisive.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #89 on: November 10, 2014, 08:20:59 PM »
Sincerity is required for an honest exchange of ideas.
I'm out you win

Offline Seth

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #90 on: November 10, 2014, 08:23:24 PM »
Sincerity is required for an honest exchange of ideas.
I'm out you win


If I am being insincere, prove it. :dontknow:

That will be difficult since you are not me. It is a baseless allegation. I am being completely sincere.

It's sad when the conversation turns from the issue to a personal attack.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #91 on: November 10, 2014, 09:55:02 PM »
Sincerity is required for an honest exchange of ideas.
I'm out you win


If I am being insincere, prove it. :dontknow:

That will be difficult since you are not me. It is a baseless allegation. I am being completely sincere.

It's sad when the conversation turns from the issue to a personal attack.

I am out
I am out of sincerity.
What I really wanted to say to you would be mocking.

The scripture is not "huff and puff" brother. I would be a bit less irreverent when it comes to the scripture. Calling it "huff and puff" is pretty derisive.

I (Seth) would be a bit less irreverent(than Dale)
Seth says he is less irreverent than Dale.


 when it comes to the scripture.
Seth accuses Dale of calling scripture huff and puff.
The very definition of being derisive.

I am sincerely out


No where in my posts do I call scripture huff and puff.
Calling it "huff and puff" is pretty derisive.

Offline Seth

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #92 on: November 10, 2014, 10:02:56 PM »
Quote
Seth accuses Dale of calling scripture huff and puff.
The very definition of being derisive.

I am sincerely out
No where in my posts do I call scripture huff and puff.

If we need to erase our knowledge of the Law, then we would need to erase our knowledge of the scripture.

Exodus 20
17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


That's scripture and it's the Law. The Law was WRITTEN in the scripture. If I erase my knowledge of the Law, I would by necessity need to erase my knowledge of the scripture. The letter is the same as the scripture. So, saying it has no use other than huff and puff is derisive to scripture in my opinion.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Follow the law.
« Reply #93 on: November 11, 2014, 08:31:55 AM »
 :hijacked:

Chill dudes. I'm gonna lock this up for a day or too.
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