Author Topic: Understanding the 4 Gospels  (Read 729 times)

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Offline FreeAtLast

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Re: Understanding the 4 Gospels
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2014, 10:31:44 PM »
Hello FreeAtLast, brother!

Jesus did indeed say He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, and as the promised Messiah, He was always going to be sent to them first. I am definitely not disputing Him going to Israel as the first step in His ministry, but it was simply the first step in Him going out to all the world.

That being said, one of my points about Luke's writing is that it is a two parter - Luke and Acts - and written by a Gentile to a Gentile. It shows the ministry of Jesus in the incarnation and then when He came back as the Holy Spirit, and continued His mission to the Gentiles also. The writer himself links the two books together, basically saying they are part one and part two, and sent them to the same recipient, Theophilus. Therefore, we are all listening in on something written to Theophilus, and both Luke and Acts are intended to have the same benefit for all readers, Jew and Gentile alike, as they are one complete story of the gospel.

speaking of the Gospel being preached in the whole world--that was accomplished in the new testament times--here are the proof scriptures----

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest(Preaching of the Gospel in above verse)and by the scriptures of the prophets,according to the commandment of the everlasting God.made know(Preaching of the Gospel)to ALL NATIONS for the obedience of faith.

Colossians 1:5-7the word of the truth of the gospel in verse 5 was in verse 6 that which is come unto the collosians,as it had in ALL the WORLD

Colossians 1:23--Hope of the gospel which the colossians heard,and which was preached to EVERY CREATURE which in under heaven.

the world was the world of the jewish people in context---not the entire globe as we think today
see the gospel had been preached in all the world  in their time---just as yahshua said that the end of that age would come when that happened--he spoke those things unto the jewish people---the jewish temple would be destroyed--the jewish city would be destroyed,the jewish unbelievers would be destroyed.

we are reading history of the jewish people and what was spoken and done unto them in the gospels  :dsunny: :dsunny:

Ultimately, if the words of Jesus are just for who they are spoken to, than the proclamation of Gabriel is for Mary, and angelic proclamation for the shepherds only, etc etc.

I can't read Luke and say "this is for the Jews", and then read Acts and say "this part is for me". I agree that the literal words of Jesus were physically spoken to physical Israel, and that He was first sent to them, but He well knew that His words were life, and would not pass away, and therefore had an application to all.

Here are a couple of examples:

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,'[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),  16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.  (Matthew 24:15-16)

Whether Jesus literally said "whoever reads", or whether Matthew wrote it in parenthesis, does not really matter. Either Jesus was speaking well knowing there would be later readers of the gospel, or Matthew was exhorting those who read.

8 She has done what she could. She has come beforehand to anoint My body for burial.  9 Assuredly, I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman has done will also be told as a memorial to her." (Matthew 14:8-9)

Above, Jesus states that THIS gospel would be preacher in the whole world, and that the woman's actions would be continually recounted. He is acknowledging that the words that are being said by and to Jews, are going to be just as relevant to Gentile readers later.

33 Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to Him, "Are You the King of the Jews?"

34 Jesus answered him, "Are you speaking for yourself about this, or did others tell you this concerning Me?"

35 Pilate answered, "Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?"

36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."

37 Pilate therefore said to Him, "Are You a king then?"

Jesus answered, "You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."

38 Pilate said to Him, "What is truth?" And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, "I find no fault in Him at all. (John 18:33-38)


Pilate was assuredly not a Jew, and yet we see Jesus testify before him also, speaking words of life. Are these for Pilate only? They are certainly not for Jews if they are spoken to Pilate? Jesus also says that the cause for which He has come into the world is to bear witness to the truth, which is what He is doing before a Gentile just as He did before the Jews.

7 Now when He concluded all His sayings in the hearing of the people, He entered Capernaum.  2 And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear to him, was sick and ready to die.  3 So when he heard about Jesus, he sent elders of the Jews to Him, pleading with Him to come and heal his servant.  4 And when they came to Jesus, they begged Him earnestly, saying that the one for whom He should do this was deserving,  5 "for he loves our nation, and has built us a synagogue."

6 Then Jesus went with them. And when He was already not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to Him, saying to Him, "Lord, do not trouble Yourself, for I am not worthy that You should enter under my roof.  7 Therefore I did not even think myself worthy to come to You. But say the word, and my servant will be healed.  8 For I also am a man placed under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes; and to another, 'Come,' and he comes; and to my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it."

9 When Jesus heard these things, He marveled at him, and turned around and said to the crowd that followed Him, "I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!"  10 And those who were sent, returning to the house, found the servant well who had been sick.[a] (Luke 7:1-10)


This centurion is another Gentile, and his servant is healed by Jesus, and his great faith is proclaimed also.

These are just a few examples. Sorry if this post is a bit long, brother!

sorry I do this from time to time  :-(




speaking of the Gospel being preached in the whole world--that was accomplished in the new testament times--here are the proof scriptures----

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest(Preaching of the Gospel in above verse)and by the scriptures of the prophets,according to the commandment of the everlasting God.made know(Preaching of the Gospel)to ALL NATIONS for the obedience of faith.

Colossians 1:5-7the word of the truth of the gospel in verse 5 was in verse 6 that which is come unto the colossians,as it had in ALL the WORLD

Colossians 1:23--Hope of the gospel which the colossians heard,and which was preached to EVERY CREATURE which in under heaven.

the world was the world of the jewish people in context---not the entire globe as we think today
see the gospel had been preached in all the world  in their time---just as yahshua said that the end of that age would come when that happened--he spoke those things unto the jewish people---the jewish temple would be destroyed--the jewish city would be destroyed,the jewish unbelievers would be destroyed.

we are reading history of the jewish people and what was spoken and done unto them in the gospels  :dsunny: :dsunny:


« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 10:47:25 PM by FreeAtLast »

Offline FreeAtLast

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Re: Understanding the 4 Gospels
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2014, 10:35:33 PM »
Hello FreeAtLast, brother!

Jesus did indeed say He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, and as the promised Messiah, He was always going to be sent to them first. I am definitely not disputing Him going to Israel as the first step in His ministry, but it was simply the first step in Him going out to all the world.

That being said, one of my points about Luke's writing is that it is a two parter - Luke and Acts - and written by a Gentile to a Gentile. It shows the ministry of Jesus in the incarnation and then when He came back as the Holy Spirit, and continued His mission to the Gentiles also. The writer himself links the two books together, basically saying they are part one and part two, and sent them to the same recipient, Theophilus. Therefore, we are all listening in on something written to Theophilus, and both Luke and Acts are intended to have the same benefit for all readers, Jew and Gentile alike, as they are one complete story of the gospel.

Ultimately, if the words of Jesus are just for who they are spoken to, than the proclamation of Gabriel is for Mary, and angelic proclamation for the shepherds only, etc etc.

I can't read Luke and say "this is for the Jews", and then read Acts and say "this part is for me". I agree that the literal words of Jesus were physically spoken to physical Israel, and that He was first sent to them, but He well knew that His words were life, and would not pass away, and therefore had an application to all.

Here are a couple of examples:

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,'[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),  16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.  (Matthew 24:15-16)

Whether Jesus literally said "whoever reads", or whether Matthew wrote it in parenthesis, does not really matter. Either Jesus was speaking well knowing there would be later readers of the gospel, or Matthew was exhorting those who read.

8 She has done what she could. She has come beforehand to anoint My body for burial.  9 Assuredly, I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman has done will also be told as a memorial to her." (Matthew 14:8-9)

Above, Jesus states that THIS gospel would be preacher in the whole world, and that the woman's actions would be continually recounted. He is acknowledging that the words that are being said by and to Jews, are going to be just as relevant to Gentile readers later.

33 Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to Him, "Are You the King of the Jews?"

34 Jesus answered him, "Are you speaking for yourself about this, or did others tell you this concerning Me?"

35 Pilate answered, "Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?"

36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."

37 Pilate therefore said to Him, "Are You a king then?"

Jesus answered, "You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."

38 Pilate said to Him, "What is truth?" And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, "I find no fault in Him at all. (John 18:33-38)


Pilate was assuredly not a Jew, and yet we see Jesus testify before him also, speaking words of life. Are these for Pilate only? They are certainly not for Jews if they are spoken to Pilate? Jesus also says that the cause for which He has come into the world is to bear witness to the truth, which is what He is doing before a Gentile just as He did before the Jews.

7 Now when He concluded all His sayings in the hearing of the people, He entered Capernaum.  2 And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear to him, was sick and ready to die.  3 So when he heard about Jesus, he sent elders of the Jews to Him, pleading with Him to come and heal his servant.  4 And when they came to Jesus, they begged Him earnestly, saying that the one for whom He should do this was deserving,  5 "for he loves our nation, and has built us a synagogue."

6 Then Jesus went with them. And when He was already not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to Him, saying to Him, "Lord, do not trouble Yourself, for I am not worthy that You should enter under my roof.  7 Therefore I did not even think myself worthy to come to You. But say the word, and my servant will be healed.  8 For I also am a man placed under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes; and to another, 'Come,' and he comes; and to my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it."

9 When Jesus heard these things, He marveled at him, and turned around and said to the crowd that followed Him, "I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!"  10 And those who were sent, returning to the house, found the servant well who had been sick.[a] (Luke 7:1-10)


This centurion is another Gentile, and his servant is healed by Jesus, and his great faith is proclaimed also.

These are just a few examples. Sorry if this post is a bit long, brother!


also on the gentiles--they came unto him--he or the apostles NEVER went unto them--he didn't cast them away--notice they had miracles doen for them--they  weren't given salvation--Salvation was of the jews   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Offline Shev

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Re: Understanding the 4 Gospels
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2014, 10:37:36 PM »
Hello brother,

I suppose we will "agree to disagree" on some of the points (I still believe Jesus said His words would not pass away because they are Life, and therefore cannot even be limited in power or purpose to the time they were spoken at or the people they were spoken to), but I do enjoy reading your responses and comments - and thank you for being courteous. Disagreeing in the right spirit can be both constructive and enjoyable!   :thumbsup:

Offline FreeAtLast

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Re: Understanding the 4 Gospels
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2014, 10:45:57 PM »
Hello brother,

I suppose we will "agree to disagree" on some of the points (I still believe Jesus said His words would not pass away because they are Life, and therefore cannot even be limited in power or purpose to the time they were spoken at or the people they were spoken to), but I do enjoy reading your responses and comments - and thank you for being courteous. Disagreeing in the right spirit can be both constructive and enjoyable!   :thumbsup:

 :iagree: :iagree:   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Understanding the 4 Gospels
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2014, 05:03:02 AM »
Quote from Freeatlast:

Everything that Yahshua spoke in these 4 gospels was unto the jewish people only--with the 1 exception of the gentile woman who came to him--notice he never went to not 1 gentile.

Wrong. It's ALL the word of God to ALL, except and unless He made it specifically to the Jews. The teachings of Jeus the Messiah were carried on by the apostles to the whole world. Even the heralds described His life as "Good news of good will to all."

I understand what you are saying--but Yahshua said himself he was only sent unto the jewish people while in the flesh---im not leaving the gentiles out--scripture reveals they did also come into the fold at a later time

something written too someone is not the same as something that is for all---something written to someone is only to that person or persons--im not saying we should not follow Yahshua's teachings today at all---they are for us also.

but what I am saying is that the 4 gospels messages was originally unto the jewish people

when Yahshua and his apostles never go unto the gentiles but only unto the jews--the messages were unto them and them only at that particular time frame.

please don't misunderstand what I am saying   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

The 4 gospels were written by Matthew, mark, Luke and John - God- breathed by the Spirit- oracles to carry the words of Christ to the whole world. What jesus was speaking to the Jews, with few exceptions, were about the character of God and the kingdom of God and the breadth and depth of those words was to every man under heaven.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Understanding the 4 Gospels
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2014, 05:24:07 PM »

Yahshua said I am ONLY sent unto the jews
Yahshua told his apostles ONLY go to the jews

No, Yahshua said He was sent only to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel - a bit different from the Jews.  I say this not only for the sake of accuracy, but to remind everyone how inclusive God's purposes are. 

So who are these Lost Sheep?  We know that there was a nation of Jews in Judea, and they were numerous enough to take on the Roman Empire for a time.  They are the Israel of record, at least to themselves, but there is more to the story.  The tribe of Judah was only one of twelve, or thirteen, depending on how you count them.  Just on that, we can say that, roughly, the whole of Israel was ~12x bigger than the Jewish nation that took on the Roman Empire.  Further, the Jewish nation of Christ's time was descended from about 50,000 (correct me if my number is off) returnees.  The rest of the Jews, the BULK of the tribe, remained behind in Mesopotamia and Persia, and never came back.  So, even in the days of Jesus the Christ, almost all of Israel was scattered and lost.  Later, Paul the apostle addressed the "strangers scattered" in various provinces of the Roman Empire.  These were all Israelites, as was the core population of the Parthian Empire.  Now, if Jesus was sent to Lost Israel, we can have a fairly good idea where He spent His "lost years."  My own research reveals that Jesus was a personal friend of a certain King Abgar, who ruled a part of the Parthian Empire from his capital of Edessa - a fascinating story, but too long to relate here.  To make a related long story short, the Parthian Empire was broken by a Persian revolt, and the Israelite refugees marched west, founding Europe-as-we-know-it-today.

The inclusiveness of all this is that most of Israel became Christian after the Gospel reached them.  Remember that "gentile" simply means "nations," not individual non-Jews.  So, when the Gospel went to the Gentiles, it went to the nations.  This included the Greeks, who hated, and were hated by, the Jews.  It's a little-appreciated miracle of the apostolic age that these two groups came to love each other as the Gospel brought them together, and God be praised for that!
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Understanding the 4 Gospels
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2014, 05:46:17 PM »
 :thumbsup:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline rosered

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Re: Understanding the 4 Gospels
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2014, 06:06:45 PM »
 :thumbsup:     
 
       I appreciate the   depth of   searching       out these things   ,  The history ,  And was the article     by Steven Collins   on the Keith Hunt   site  by chance Laz ?
 
http://www.keithhunt.com/Jeslife4.html

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Understanding the 4 Gospels
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2014, 09:40:02 PM »
:thumbsup:     
 
       I appreciate the   depth of   searching       out these things   ,  The history ,  And was the article     by Steven Collins   on the Keith Hunt   site  by chance Laz ?
 
http://www.keithhunt.com/Jeslife4.html

I probably got my information, or most of it, from Steven M. Collins' book "Parthia."  Any of his books are well worth reading.
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline rosered

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Re: Understanding the 4 Gospels
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2014, 09:43:34 PM »
:thumbsup:     
 
       I appreciate the   depth of   searching       out these things   ,  The history ,  And was the article     by Steven Collins   on the Keith Hunt   site  by chance Laz ?
 
http://www.keithhunt.com/Jeslife4.html

I probably got my information, or most of it, from Steven M. Collins' book "Parthia."  Any of his books are well worth reading.

   Thanks LAZ !! :thumbsup:      I am looking at his      Web site   :HeartThrob: