Author Topic: Did Jesus really say to hate my family?  (Read 4424 times)

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Tom

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Re: Did Jesus really say to hate my family?
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2013, 07:50:01 PM »
Gen 27:41  And Esau hated Jacob H7852  properly to lurk for, that is, persecute: - hate, oppose self against.
Gen 50:15  And when Joseph's brethren saw that their father was dead, they said, Joseph will peradventure hate us, H7852  properly to lurk for, that is, persecute: - hate, oppose self against.
Lev 19:17  Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart H8130  to hate (personally): - enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, X utterly.
Mal 1:3  And I hated Esau H8130  to hate (personally): - enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, X utterly.
Luk 14:26  If any man come to me, and hate not G3404  to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).
Rom 7:15 ...........  but what I hate, that do I.  G3404  to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).
1Jn 3:13  Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.  G3404  to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).
Rev 2:15  So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.  G3404  to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Now I try, by the grace of the Lord not to hate, even though at times the word comes blurting from my mouth, and I feel bad that it did. I pray that hate will stay out of my heart.
In my opinion, with these words, Isa. 45:7,  the Lord also brought the attribute of hate into exsistance. So either Jesus in Luke 14:26 did not mean what He said or He did.

It's been said you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. I don't like the word hate especially the way it is said in Luke. I cannot phantom the Lord hating, but the Lord
hated Esau, whether it was what Esau represented or Esau the man, HE hated. Hate had to have come from somewhere and it has a meaning and definition.
Man can hate in all 5 senses, man can also love in all 5 senses, love and hate are real and the Lord and Creator brought hate into use without saying the word hate, in Gen. 4:8 in the form of jealousy and murder.
I don't like the idea or thought and I must agree will all of you who posted, and posted well, on how to swerve around the meaning, but Jesus did say it. The Nicolaitans are hated, the world will hate us, Paul hated what he did.
For me, in my opinion trying to explain hate and what it means in Luke, is right up there with me attempting to tell someone what "spirit" is.

Pro 5:1  My son! to my wisdom give attention, To mine understanding incline thine ear,

I want and desire to love and not hate, but hate is. :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

See the attachment about "spirit" from the Concordant Literal New Testament Keyword Concordance.

What am I looking for?

Your words, bro..."attempting to tell someone what "spirit" is"

Offline sheila

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Re: Did Jesus really say to hate my family?
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2013, 08:29:01 PM »
And I shall put enmity between the woman's seed and the serpents seed.....lest we forget where the hate

  come from.   Genesis 3;15

   

Offline rosered

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Re: Did Jesus really say to hate my family?
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2013, 08:50:20 PM »
And I shall put enmity between the woman's seed and the serpents seed.....lest we forget where the hate

  come from.   Genesis 3;15

 

enmity  /hatred


Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.




 Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.



Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity,  the hatred   [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;


Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity/hatred  thereby:

 
Jam 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Did Jesus really say to hate my family?
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2013, 01:19:20 AM »
I believe there is a relationship that the Spirit is nurturing in me.
I am allowed to see how much God hates the Flesh of Man.
How much Love he has for me as it is revealed.
A protective Love, a Love that protects me from, my flesh killing me.
It is his hatred for the flesh and his absolute Love for me.
I found both came from his heart.
God said he already killed the flesh so do NOT worry about
 the flesh causing you or any one else harm. 

Offline jabcat

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Re: Did Jesus really say to hate my family?
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2013, 02:02:14 AM »
Hi daj..Paul struggled with his flesh, he said it was very much at work with him (sin in his flesh). He also said he battled it to get it in submission.  He also said to walk after the Spirit rather than the flesh, and seemed to indicate the flesh/sin in the flesh very much injured self or others if left unchecked ("turn over to satan for destruction of flesh/spirit saved..").    Can you help me understand better what you mean by  "God said he already killed the flesh"?   Thanks.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline rosered

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Re: Did Jesus really say to hate my family?
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2013, 02:44:16 AM »
Hi daj..Paul struggled with his flesh, he said it was very much at work with him (sin in his flesh). He also said he battled it to get it in submission.  He also said to walk after the Spirit rather than the flesh, and seemed to indicate the flesh/sin in the flesh very much injured self or others if left unchecked ("turn over to satan for destruction of flesh/spirit saved..").    Can you help me understand better what you mean by  "God said he already killed the flesh"?   Thanks.
    :thumbsup:
 
  This is also how I believe Jab  :thumbsup:, and its a process   in this short time  to  be revealed  in each and every one of us   as the Father seeks those to worship Him in Spirit and truth
Romans 6    the Body of sin =dead
  and the Body of Christ =alive

we certainly do not want to deceieve ourselves  into thinking   there is no struggle against the sin   within ,    Hebrews 12   3-6


  Think of all the hostility he endured from sinful people;  then you won't become weary and give up. 


 Hbr 12:4 After all, you have not yet given your lives in your struggle against sin


 Hbr 12:5 And have you forgotten the encouraging words God spoke to you as his children?  He said, "My child, ] don't make light of the LORD's discipline, and don't give up when he corrects you. 


 Hbr 12:6 For the LORD disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child." 
   Romans 6   disciusses in detail   the battles of sin in our own flesh  and  how we are not to serve sin , but  the Lord Jesus Christ ..
 
 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 


 Rom 6:2   God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 


 Rom 6:3   Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 


 Rom 6:4   Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 


 Rom 6:5   For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection: 

 Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.    Rom 6:7   For he that is dead is freed from sin. 


 Rom 6:8   Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:  


 Rom 6:9   Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.    Rom 6:10   For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 
 Rom 6:11   Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord


 Rom 6:12   Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 


 Rom 6:13   Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God. 


 Rom 6:14  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 


 Rom 6:15  What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.   


Rom 6:16   Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 


 Rom 6:17   But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you


 Rom 6:18   Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 


 Rom 6:19   I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness


 Rom 6:20   For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 


 Rom 6:21   What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things [is] death.    Rom 6:22   But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 


 Rom 6:23   For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Did Jesus really say to hate my family?
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2013, 12:26:34 PM »
Jesus came in the flesh.
Jesus knew the scriptures.
He knew the flesh could not please God.
His flesh was going to be judged by God

For this reason the gospel was also preached to those who are now dead,
 so that, although they might be judged by men in the fleshly realm,
they might live by God in the spiritual realm.


I think Jesus new he was flesh and spirit
 and would only choose to be led of the spirit not the flesh.
He would only speak the words of his father.
He was perfect according to the law.
If the flesh was going to make it into the kingdom of God
This was probably the time.
 But no instead the flesh was crucified.
Jesus arose through the power of Gods spirit in an immortal body.
It seems we have put off our mortal bodies to receive our immortal
Our spirit ( my spirit) is already in its immortal body.
My flesh is already in its mortal body.

My spirit can communicate and seek comfort from the Holy Spirit
I see my self as spirit, I have a new and powerful vehicle now,
in which to explore the vast and beauty of his kingdom.

I would not want any one here think I was posting doctrine.
I like to think of them as fanciful thinking
Or better Hopeful thinking. 

 God said he already killed the flesh so do NOT worry about
 the flesh causing you or any one else harm. 


Offline rosered

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Re: Did Jesus really say to hate my family?
« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2013, 08:03:07 PM »
Quote
Our spirit ( my spirit) is already in its immortal body.
    :iagree:

 
Quote
For this reason the gospel was also preached to those who are now dead,
 so that, although they might be judged by men in the fleshly realm,
they might live by God in the spiritual realm.


  :HeartThrob:  I agree with you  in these  Bro Daj
 
  but  Jesus was sinnless and perfect   Lamb of God , His flesh  was the same body prepared for   death
 as ours is also as good as dead
 
 Wherefore when he comes into the world, he said, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 
 Hbr 10:6   In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure


 Hbr 10:7   Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 


 Hbr 10:8   Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law


 Hbr 10:9   Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 

 Hbr 10:10   By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Did Jesus really say to hate my family?
« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2013, 01:37:31 AM »
Romans 8:2 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

1Corinthians  5:1 For we know that if [a]the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, 3 inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. 4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge(down payment).

Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance(see Romans 8:23), with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.
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Offline dajomaco

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Re: Did Jesus really say to hate my family?
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2013, 01:54:28 AM »
I hate that there are some in my family who won't let me give them the Love
I believed I recieved freely from the holy Spirit as a gift a regifting gift.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Did Jesus really say to hate my family?
« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2013, 02:38:17 AM »
I hate that there are some in my family who won't let me give them the Love
I believed I recieved freely from the holy Spirit as a gift a regifting gift.

 :gimmefive: :LH: :HeartThrob:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Did Jesus really say to hate my family?
« Reply #61 on: August 14, 2013, 10:09:01 AM »
Luke 14:26 - If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. [ESV]

The word hate here is translated from miseō [G3404]
1) to hate, pursue with hatred, detest
2) to be hated, detested

Is this a poor translation of the word miseo?
Or am I just not getting it?

 :dontknow: :Chinscratch: :dunno2:
Plz read this: http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/the-new-testament-was-written-in-hebrew-(not-greek)/msg136453/#msg136453
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...