Men do not "choose Him" and He SPECIFICALLY stated so -- John 15:16 -- and that process is already ORDAINED to occur as is stated elsewhere -- Eph 2:10
Quote from: thinktank on Today at 07:11:14 AM
sooner or later, rather than by grim manipulative force.
Please... no one has noted it to be "grim"... it is an ACT of LOVE by YHVH to drag each stubborn sinner to Himself!
read the Scriptures, bro:
Men do not "come" sooner or later of their own "will":
Men cannot COME to Him to begin with, except GOD the Father DRAG them to Him -- John 6:44 & 65 -- One that is DRAGGED, ...is certainly NOT "coming" of ones own "WILL"...
Opps it seems you have quoted me quoting someone elses words. I think those words were lefeins. Sorry I forgot to add lefeins signature.
I agree with what you said though, it seems we are dancing around the same subject, but yet not dancing to the same beat.
Men do not come to God in their own will for that would mean we would love an unseen entity. What happens is that God pursues each and every one of us, father reveals to us that Jesus Christ is the son of God and the saviour of humanity then we act, for many are called but only a few are chosen. Just because God calls someone doesn't mean they obey.
Who does the father reach out to today? All of Usa have heard the gospel message, yet only a few respond? why is that? Is it because God loves evil and wants people to be subject to bondage? Or is it because the person does not want to be free from sin?
Please take your time in answering that, I have no interest in debate.
It DOES NOT give GLORY to God, it gives "glory" to the "chooser" for "making the choice" of HIMSELF, not of GOD...
Some people might have that mentality, but very few I imagine. I have never met a christian that boasts they have accepted Jesus Christ as lord. If they did then they are in sin of pride and need to repent, just like the parable of the man in church who thanks God that hes not like the tax collector who is a sinner, but the tax collector humbles himself before God and recognizes his sin. God prefers the honest sinner to the self righteous pharisse.
Read of the OT deliverance of the JEWS... Did they "CHOOSE" to be DELIVERED? And became DELIVERED due to their "CHOICE"? Or did GOD display that it was NOT "up to Pharaoh" NOR was it up to "Moses" (who came "demanding" of Pharaoh SEVERAL TIMES)... but was strictly up to YHVH, and His choice?
They cried out for mercy though and God in his love, decided to rescue them. Why does God choose to rescue the Isralites, have you considered that? Is God a respector of people or of race?
Perhaps He choose the Israelites because they cried out to him for mercy.
And because the DELIVERANCE was accomplished due to the "choosing" of YHVH, and NOT of the JEWS... therefore done OTHER than in LOVE for the JEWS?
He delivered them because he heard their cries and acted out of love and principle, which is that those who pray get God to move, because that's how God set things up to be at least that's what I have read in the scriptures.
If MEN are "choosing" Him, then MEN are getting the GLORY for a "choice" for which THEY (and most Christians DO) take credit for making...
In the eyes of man its not that important they only receive vain glory a cheer here and a cheer there, but in the eyes of God, yes those who choose Christ are highly esteemed by God, for they choose and accepted his sacrifice. The parable of the lost son shows that the father accepted his lost son and sacrifices a calf, but yet hear what he said to his son, he said "son you have been with me always and all that is mine is yours".
As belivers we have acccess to God's heart a special privelage that those without Christ do not have. This is a fact of life, there are the haves and the have nots, get used to it.
It is THIS VANITY that Christianity subliminally then uses against the "UNSAVED" world... Boasting that THEY "accepted CHRIST", instead of exalting the HUMILITY that is found in the fact that CHRIST has given HIS (undeserved) "acceptance of them" -- Rom 5:6-8 -- and Then, immersed IN that VANITY --- WRONGLY condemn that "unsaved" world to HELL -- James 3:6-10
The problem above is pride and they need to repent, not the doctrine that Christ desires to save all, here and now. Where is the evil in Christ wanting to save all now? Do you think God is in heaven rejoicing when abortion happens, when murder happens? Gods will right now even this minute is world peace, it is men that prevent this from happening and the schemes of the evil one.
Please show ONE PLACE that CHRIST DID "His WILL", Tank...
I think when he raized Lazarus from the dead, possibly, for he seems to have to exlain to father why he did it, he never said that before, in any of his miracles.
Also another miracle he turned water into wine. He said it is not my time, but Mary tempted him to do it and he did.
In the end, it is the biggest difference between Him and US... For HE always DID the WILL (commands/prophecy) of the Father... we on the other hand, disobey that WILL (commands/prophecy) often...
Yes, so you are not far from my view at all, that we do have a will, that disobeys God, you are slowly getting this as the spirit of the lord purges away the deceptions.
That CHRIST was always "DOING" the WILL of the Father, (according to you and others) therefore made Him a PUPPET of YHVH, Tank? Or a ROBOT? (hey --- lets not leave "technology" out of it, after all it is another thing "MAN" claims in his VANITY, to be of "his OWN doing" --
No he was an obedient son and had a mind of his own, your the one who says he is a robot, because you say all his actions were preplanned or ordained by God from the begining and also say that mans vanity is also Ordained by God from the begining. So how can man be vain in his own deceit if God ordained such a thing? For according to you it is not mans vanity but Gods ordained command of making man vanity.
The answer is: Of course NOT! ...He did the will (commands/prophecy) of YHVH because He was FREE from the doing of His OWN (fleshly) "will"...
Yet was tempted as we are, but did not sin.
There is FREEDOM in doing and saying the WORD... for such INVOLVMENT with the WORD, indeed creates FREEDOM in the one involved with IT -- John 8:32-36
Don't forget the spirit of truth also
If we claim to be following His example... then we shall DO as HE DID... which included NOTING that He DID and SAID, NOTHING of Himself -- John 5:19.30 -- John 8:28 -- John 14:10 -- When the WORD is KNOWN and one IS KNOWN of IT, ...IT MAKES one FREE... Free of what? FREE of SELF -- Gal 2:20 --
I hope so, we all stumble from time to time, but by their fruits you shall know them