willieH: Hi Paul...
In peace do I intend this answer bro...
See Willie, this is my problem. You say that God is everything and yet go on to say that God doesn't sin.
I did not say "He is everything"... I said HE CREATED ALL THINGS, ...WORKS ALL THINGS, and ALL THINGS conclude IN HIM...
If I KNOW what WET is, and wish my BODY to know what WET is, so I DIP my BODY in the WATER, did my "spirit" or "soul" get "wet" Paul?
As for the verse you mentioned concerning God not changing (Mal 3:6) - I believe this is a reference to His Divine nature.
The verse DOES NOT
SAY: "I am YHVH -- My divine nature -- CHANGES NOT"...
-- For I am YHVH, ...I CHANGE NOT
... (no further commentary concerning "what" does "NOT CHANGE"
... No notations except
by THOSE who propose ADDITION/speculation to what IS NOT spoken/written, in the verse.)
It doesn't change to that which is oppose that nature. You are saying that time wouldn't change this and I agree. However, you use that as an argument that God would be "changing" if the subjection takes place at a point in time. That is NOT true in my opinion.
Paul... examine what you have just said... ETERNITY preceeded TIME, did it not? And you are proposing that in order for GOD to be COMPLETE and ALL in ALL, it required that He create TIME? So much as alluding to necessitating US and our doings, in order to be COMPLETE?
You also propose that IN ETERNITY (which has NO beginning
or end)... that He was IN THIS WAY (all IN all), ...INCOMPLETE... (or as some might say IMPERFECT, for the true meaning of PERFECT is COMPLETE without FLAW)
PERFECTION does not require any alterations... yet you propose that GOD needed TIME (and the evil doings of men) in order to be COMPLETE and was therefore, concerning ALL
I believe the reference to God changing of Mal 3:6 is a direct reference to His Spirit (divine nature) and that it in no way changes whether or not subjection takes place at some point in time.
Regardless of what you BELIEVE, which is OUTSIDE what is stated (requiring INSERTION of your BELIEF, in order to be WHAT YOU PROPOSE -- i.e. specifiying "divine nature")... and therefore your BELIEF implies that the WORD
of GOD is also INCOMPLETE, for it "left out" the designation "divine nature"...
And is "in need" of your INSERTED designation of "divine nature" in order to be properly understood? :omg:
There is no change indicate to the Spirit or nature of God if subjection occurs at any point in time. And Time does exist for God gave us Time and its measurements. I believe that "Eternity" is just another measurement.
And what do you propose as the "MEASUREMENT" of ETERNITY Paul? To "measure" is to find LIMITATION... for a measure of something, concerns the limits, dimension or content of that which is MEASURED...
[from Merrium-Webster]Main Entry: 1mea·sure
Pronunciation: \ˈme-zhər, ˈmā-\
Etymology: Middle English mesure, from Anglo-French, from Latin mensura, from mensus, past participle of metiri to measure; akin to Old English mǣth measure, Greek metron
Date: 13th century
1 a (1): an adequate or due portion (2): a moderate degree ; also : moderation, temperance (3): a fixed or suitable limit : bounds <rich beyond measure> b: the dimensions, capacity, or amount of something ascertained by measuring c: an estimate of what is to be expected (as of a person or situation) d (1): a measured quantity (2): amount, degree
2 a: an instrument or utensil for measuring b (1): a standard or unit of measurement — see weight table (2): a system of standard units of measure <metric measure>
3: the act or process of measuring
4 a (1): melody, tune (2): dance ; especially : a slow and stately dance b: rhythmic structure or movement : cadence : as (1): poetic rhythm measured by temporal quantity or accent ; specifically : meter (2): musical time c (1): a grouping of a specified number of musical beats located between two consecutive vertical lines on a staff (2): a metrical unit : foot
5: an exact divisor of a number
6: a basis or standard of comparison <wealth is not a measure of happiness>
7: a step planned or taken as a means to an end ; specifically : a proposed legislative act
— for good measure : in addition to the minimum required : as an extra
IMO (no offense bro), you are wandering WAY off the pathway with this...(1)
you add your belief to what is stated in -- Mal 3:6
-- implying it to be as YOU see it, reading "between the lines" what is NOT THERE...(2)
you propose that GOD needed to create TIME in order to BE something IN ETERNITY that He was not... implying He needed some SELF alteration which TIME availed to Him(3)
now you propose that ETERNITY which has no limitation, is a MEASURED entity! Please! How can the INFINTITE be measured? How can INNUMERABLE be numbered?
This is an ILLOGICAL proposal bro...
For example, we have the day, we have the week. A week may contain the days but it is still a measurement of time. The month contains weeks, and years contain months, etc.. until we reach the point that Eternity contains.... Eternity is just the measurement at the top of the Time container. That is how I see it Willie.
Until? What did "until" have to do with the ETERNAL before "until's" were brought forth from it?
Therein lies your problem bro (IMO)... You think TIME which was NOT
(for it was created from GOD who resides in ETERNITY) while ETERNITY just, IS
... And then propose to MEASURE Eternity with TIME... when it PRECEEDED it and is ENDLESSLY, BEGINNINGLESSLY -- before and after it!ETERNITY
does something like this:
You just said -- "for example we have the day, we have the week... a week may contain days..."
ETERNITY takes your concept and TURNS it INSIDE OUT -- and says a DAY
may contain WEEKS
For ALL GENERATIONS -- Gen 2:4
-- appear in the "DAY" God created them... so all "WEEKS" which are found in TIME are contained in the DAY of GOD and His creation of them...Gen 2:4
-- THESE [plural] are the GENERATIONS [plural] of the heavens and the earth WHEN THEY [plural] were created, ...IN THE DAY... that YHVH made the earth and the heavens...
What many fail to see is that GOD created the heavens and the earth in 6 DAYS (time) but FINISHED His work in those SIX DAYS of TIME, within HIS DAY which is ETERNITY...Gen 2:1
-- Thus the heavens and the earth were FINISHED, ...and... ALL the HOST of them
... (btw, the word "HOST
" is a notation of a "mass of persons awaiting a WAR")
You see Paul (or maybe not), ...the Creation of ALL THINGS was done from ETERNITY and was FINISHED COMPLETELY at the conclusion of the 6th DAY of TIME...
Though the Creation story is yet UNFOLDING in what we observe from a finite vision as: TIME... was COMPLETED in ETERNITY before 1 second of TIME elapsed on earth...
There is a great reason for the 7th Day... and that it is DEVOID of "evening and morning" for those depict beginning and end... as well as it was the only entity called a DAY which was BLESSED and made HOLY... for the 6 days of TIME contained EVIL and SIN... the 7th DAY is the SABBATH, over which CHRIST
claimed as His own and LORDSHIP... and HE
is the BLESSING of HOLINESS that God showered upon the SABBATH... for in the WORD
of GOD, do ALL THINGS find beginning and end...
You see Paul (or maybe not)... the CREATION is yet progressing concerning TIME... until it CONCLUDES (which it shall)... and it shall find that conclusion in the SABBATH which IS CHRIST
... for ALL THINGS begin and end in Him (alpha/omega), that HAVE beginnings and endings... which are, ...ALL THINGS within TIME
... (John 1:1-3 -- Rev 1:8
There is much more to this, but I'll leave these thoughts with you for now... TIME is but a drop of water (used to teach the Children the "knowledge") amidst the endless OCEAN of ETERNITY... surrounded on ALL SIDES by that OCEAN which, unlike the "DROP" has no limitation, duration or quantity.