willieH: Hi Paul...
I disagree with this Willie. How can we always be Him when we are carnal?
Disagreement is fine with me, bro...
HE is ALWAYS with us... that it is stated in several places does not remove it because we would "disagree" with it...
GOD is working ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL -- Eph 1:11
-- which means that HE has to DO, with ALL THINGS...
GOD is EVERYWHERE... Even Paul noted that we are IN HIM and we LIVE and move and have our being IN HIM... He is therefore ALWAYS with
When we are CARNAL... Our "vision" (spiritually) is VEILED by that CARNALITY... the GLORY of CHRIST
is REVEALED ...IN
US... something cannot be "REVEALED" IN
US, that was not there all along -- Rom 8:18
-- something "REVEALED" is THERE, just obscured from vision (either physically or spiritually) -- the word "revealed" in this verse means to "take off the cover"
That would mean that the reflexive also true in that if we are Him then He is us.
You are beginning to get it bro... HE is
US... the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD ...AND... EVIL... is displayed BY
HIM in HIS WORKING of ALL THINGS!
Within OUR EXPERIENCE, which was completely FOREKNOWN by HIS PERFECT FOREKNOWLEDGE, that this KNOWLEDGE (of G & E) which would be REVEALED, by this experience IN US...
He is NOT EVIL, and neither are we... WE are (being) made in HIS IMAGE which is NOT EVIL... it is GOOD, but the KNOWLEDGE of EVIL is also contained in WHO and WHAT He ...IS... and in making us IN His image... an intimate experience with WHAT EVIL is (to its dramatic and awful potential)... must be had in order to be enabled the vision of GOOD (in its dramatic and wonderful potential)
IOW... If all evil ended up being, as a little stubbed toe... WHAT of the wonders of ETERNAL GOOD are exposed in that little mishap? ...But when Earthquakes, Hurricanes, Tornadoes and other such NATURAL disasters occur... a nice clear day is well appreciated, and has been exposed to the extreme in this massive display, dontcha think?
Or when Alzheimers, Murder, Rape, starvation, AIDS, cancer (bringing DEATH in all forms) and other such NATURAL and personally intimate oppositions are presented to us... the GOOD states of HEALTH and YOUTH of mind, body and spirit, are seen to be in STARK CONTRAST, are they not?
As I said earlier, GOD does NOT CHANGE... so, whatever He is, ... HE (always) IS what He IS... (and He IS
ALL in ALL)...
What is happening here in this realm, is that He "created EVIL" which was GOD making a PHYSICAL Universe, in which a thing called TIME would elapse, and the EVIL He "created" would be found and generated in the PHYSICAL (US -- which of ourselves, pose OPPOSITION to GOOD)... DETERIORATING and DISOBEYING the COMMANDS which HE IS... and IN which He abides...
He thereby CONVEYS the ETERNAL knowledge of GOOD and EVIL to each one that experiences it, via the experience of HIS BODY (us) within this FINITE realm of TIME...
Can the child of Satan be also the child of God at the same time? If so, why be RENEWED by the Holy Spirit?
Satan is just the principality of ADVERSITY which was ALSO created by YHVH
... and placed within the makeup of MAN... that the CHILDREN of YHVH
, which are collectively -- His TEMPLE and BODY... will come to KNOW
GOOD and EVIL...
It kind of surprises me that you object to this, for in many instances and in many examples, you have been speaking of this in the "YOU are satan" thread!
The "child" of "satan" is the submission to ADVERSITY against the COMMAND of GOD... NOT born of some mythical "evil" being which is everywhere... rather, it is the NATURAL BEAST that man IS, and DESPARATELY WICKED Heart within man which is CONCLUDED in UNBELIEF ...BY YHVH
... that man gains the KNOWLEDGE via this experience of UNBELIEF... (which is SIN
, which is part of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil)...
"Renewing" is a process bro... as Paul and John noted, we remain capable of sinning, even after we have entered into a relationship with CHRIST
... the WAR which Paul notes continues... for our flesh, now defiled of SIN, wishes to continue in it... AS we submit to the mind of CHRIST
within (inward man)... we maintain via HIM, the control and OBEDIENCE over that which proposes ADVERSE DISOBEDIENCE (to be our resultant experience)
As I see it, ...in order for CHRIST
to say He will NEVER
leave us, or for Him to say that He shall ALWAYS
be with us... means that He has ALWAYS
been WITH US... And thereby has NEVER
Also -- Rom 8:38-39
-- Paul was PERSUADED that there is NO POWER whatsoever
that can SEPARATE
us from the LOVE
of GOD which is IN CHRIST JESUS
... If there is NOTHING that can SEPARATE us from
Him, how can we be SEPARATED?
of GOD, ...has NEVER been SEPARATE from us at ANY TIME, and has been WITH US all along...
I am not endeavoring to convince you of anything brother P... You are welcome to disagree with what I have said here, and I have no problem with said disagreements... it is just my present observational view --
-- Taking all the pertinent texts (of which I am aware) ...into consideration...