Author Topic: Personal Savior?  (Read 26072 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #400 on: July 29, 2009, 09:26:59 PM »
:cloud9: AMEN, Sheila.......

Think about your exploding cross vision.
There was a 'timeflow' into past and future.
So....?

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline rosered

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #401 on: July 29, 2009, 09:29:38 PM »
  Paul,

   It most certainly does. John 8;58

    I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, 'before Abraham

    was born,I am "

      The eternal realm is a whole different ballgame,people.

   Totally different setup  . When what is has already been,

  and past present and future are all plaited togather..

   I'm afraid your'e going to be hard put to what the

   proper sequence order is  relative to time when there is no

   end and there is no beginning.


    What time is it when past present and future is one?

   It is called eternity....and time is no more.

                          Sheila

 :cloud9: AMEN, Sheila.......
:thumbsup:   I got cha  :HeartThrob:
 
  a good explaination on your part sis!!
 
  I saw this   when will time not be a factor ?
  seems this world  and its gods  are run/empowered  on time and money which enslaves us to comit .
 
  Which God is not bound by anything
 
 
 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,  


 Rev 10:6   And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:  

 Rev 10:7   But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.   hee hee hee  :winkgrin:

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #402 on: July 29, 2009, 09:31:31 PM »
 Whitewings said, "Think about your exploding cross vision.There was a 'timeflow' into past and future. So....?"

:cloud9: No, there wasn't. What I saw was SPIRIT exploding into still "frames" of time, with the understanding given on what the SPIRIT was doing/accomplishing in and thru those frames. If there was time in the Spirit, it would have been "locked" into the first "frame". Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Seth

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #403 on: July 29, 2009, 09:32:23 PM »
rosered, I am just wondering: do you see a difference between time being, and time being a FACTOR? A factor just means that it is influential. NOBODY on this thread is saying that God is BOUND by time, so I wish people would stop the insinuations. :dontknow:

Offline Seth

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #404 on: July 29, 2009, 09:34:26 PM »
:cloud9: No, there wasn't. What I saw was SPIRIT exploding into still "frames" of time, with the understanding given on what the SPIRIT was doing in those frames. If there was time in the Spirit, it would have been "locked" into the first "frame". Blessings....

Cardinal you are seeing what I am saying. MOVEMENT is sequential. Action is sequential. FLOW is sequential. IF WE, that is OUR time is frozen (and we are unaware) and God is able to MOVE within our time frames and DO things, that is ANOTHER level of time rather than a lack of it.


Offline rosered

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #405 on: July 29, 2009, 09:36:16 PM »
Quote
proper sequence order is  relative to time when there is no

   end and there is no beginning.

Sequence does not require and end or a beginning. That is the very concept and definition of perpetuity. That which is perpetual may have no end and no beginning yet STILL be sequentially perpetual.

Even perfect stillness is sequential if the condition of the observer is AWARE of the stillness. Remove awareness, and THAT is when you remove time because then there are no moments to observe even in perfect stillness.
 ????? :dontknow:   seems it does take a begining and end for the sequence /order of things to happen ??  help
 
 se⋅quence  /ˈsikwəns/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [see-kwuhns]  Show IPA noun, verb, -quenced, -quenc⋅ing.
Use Sequence in a Sentence
–noun 1. the following of one thing after another; succession.
2. order of succession: a list of books in alphabetical sequence.  
3. a continuous or connected series: a sonnet sequence.  
4. something that follows; a subsequent event; result; consequence.
5. Music. a melodic or harmonic pattern repeated three or more times at different pitches with or without modulation.
6. Liturgy. a hymn sometimes sung after the gradual and before the gospel; prose.
7. Movies. a series of related scenes or shots, as those taking place in one locale or at one time, that make up one episode of the film narrative.
8. Cards. a series of three or more cards following one another in order of value, esp. of the same suit.
9. Genetics. the linear order of monomers in a polymer, as nucleotides in DNA or amino acids in a protein.
10. Mathematics. a set whose elements have an order similar to that of the positive integers; a map from the positive integers to a given set.

–verb (used with object) 11. to place in a sequence.
12. Biochemistry. to determine the order of (chemical units in a polymer chain), esp. nucleotides in DNA or RNA or amino acids in a protein.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1350–1400; ME < LL sequentia, equiv. to sequ- (s. of sequī to follow) + -entia -ence


Synonyms:
1. See series. 2. arrangement. 4. outcome, sequel.

Offline Molly

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #406 on: July 29, 2009, 09:37:53 PM »
Sheila,

I have totally zero idea what "we will dwell in GOD" means :sigh:
I try to picture it in my head but I can't. So....
John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

God is Spirit.  What is there to see?  The wind?

But if one is in His bosom, he can declare Him.

"declare"
G1834
ἐξηγέομαι
exēgeomai
ex-ayg-eh'-om-ahee
From G1537 and G2233; to consider out (aloud), that is, rehearse, unfold: - declare, tell.


G2233
ἡγέομαι
hēgeomai
hayg-eh'-om-ahee
Middle voice of a (presumed) strengthened form of G71; to lead, that is, command (with official authority); figuratively to deem, that is, consider: - account, (be) chief, count, esteem,governor, judge, have the rule over, suppose, think.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #407 on: July 29, 2009, 09:39:03 PM »
Whitewings said, "Think about your exploding cross vision.There was a 'timeflow' into past and future. So....?"

:cloud9: No, there wasn't. What I saw was SPIRIT exploding into still "frames" of time, with the understanding given on what the SPIRIT was doing/accomplishing in and thru those frames. If there was time in the Spirit, it would have been "locked" into the first "frame". Blessings....

I have the impression this won't have any progress in the next 1000 years... :laughing7:
Cardinal, IMO you are jumping to conclusions. Because you are shown frames there can't be time.
It's like saying when the door is closed Jesus can't enter (but He did)
If you have red shoes that doesn't mean you can't have blue shoes also.
I hope the shoe example clears it up  :laughing7:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Seth

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #408 on: July 29, 2009, 09:40:48 PM »
Quote
proper sequence order is  relative to time when there is no

   end and there is no beginning.

Sequence does not require and end or a beginning. That is the very concept and definition of perpetuity. That which is perpetual may have no end and no beginning yet STILL be sequentially perpetual.

Even perfect stillness is sequential if the condition of the observer is AWARE of the stillness. Remove awareness, and THAT is when you remove time because then there are no moments to observe even in perfect stillness.
 ????? :dontknow:   seems it does take a begining and end for the sequence /order of things to happen ??  help
 
 se⋅quence  /ˈsikwəns/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [see-kwuhns]  Show IPA noun, verb, -quenced, -quenc⋅ing.
Use Sequence in a Sentence
–noun 1. the following of one thing after another; succession.
2. order of succession: a list of books in alphabetical sequence.  
3. a continuous or connected series: a sonnet sequence.  
4. something that follows; a subsequent event; result; consequence.
5. Music. a melodic or harmonic pattern repeated three or more times at different pitches with or without modulation.
6. Liturgy. a hymn sometimes sung after the gradual and before the gospel; prose.
7. Movies. a series of related scenes or shots, as those taking place in one locale or at one time, that make up one episode of the film narrative.
8. Cards. a series of three or more cards following one another in order of value, esp. of the same suit.
9. Genetics. the linear order of monomers in a polymer, as nucleotides in DNA or amino acids in a protein.
10. Mathematics. a set whose elements have an order similar to that of the positive integers; a map from the positive integers to a given set.

–verb (used with object) 11. to place in a sequence.
12. Biochemistry. to determine the order of (chemical units in a polymer chain), esp. nucleotides in DNA or RNA or amino acids in a protein.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1350–1400; ME < LL sequentia, equiv. to sequ- (s. of sequī to follow) + -entia -ence


Synonyms:
1. See series. 2. arrangement. 4. outcome, sequel.


LOL, maybe concerning genetics. why did you pick the one concerning genetics.

3. a continuous or connected series: a sonnet sequence.  

Regarding OUR time, our sequences are experienced differently.

God is aware of his continued existence. God is CONTINUIOUS, meaning that he is perpetual. And he exists forever. Look up the word "forever" in the dictionary: http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/forever

What do you see?

Offline rosered

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #409 on: July 29, 2009, 09:40:58 PM »
rosered, I am just wondering: do you see a difference between time being, and time being a FACTOR? A factor just means that it is influential. NOBODY on this thread is saying that God is BOUND by time, so I wish people would stop the insinuations. :dontknow:
 

 Iam  not  Seth ???  I am saying this  as simple as I know how to say it
 
   the realm under heaven   /the present realm of natural  being ,us included
  is bound  by GOD and  the heavenly realm  which is God is not bound by anything ..  :HeartThrob:

Offline Seth

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #410 on: July 29, 2009, 09:44:54 PM »
rosered, I am just wondering: do you see a difference between time being, and time being a FACTOR? A factor just means that it is influential. NOBODY on this thread is saying that God is BOUND by time, so I wish people would stop the insinuations. :dontknow:
 

 Iam  not  Seth ???  I am saying this  as simple as I know how to say it
 
   the realm under heaven   /the present realm of natural  being ,us included
  is bound  by GOD and  the heavenly realm  which is God is not bound by anything ..  :HeartThrob:

I agree rosered. God is not bound by anything. And, time is not a binding factor.  :hihat:

If the heavenly realm IS God, and God creates things in order (check Genesis 1) then sequence occurs in heaven. Genesis 1 PROVES that  sequence occurs in heaven, which according to you IS God, and according to the bible ACTS according to sequence, which is observable by both him and us.



Offline Molly

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #411 on: July 29, 2009, 09:46:44 PM »
Quote
Rev 10:6   And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:  

 Rev 10:7   But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.  

What's this all about?  No more time?  The mystery of God finished?  He told this to the prophets?

Is this referring to the resurrected Christ?  And the revelation of Christ in us?

Offline Seth

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #412 on: July 29, 2009, 09:48:10 PM »
Quote
Rev 10:6   And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:  

 Rev 10:7   But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.  

What's this all about?  No more time?  The mystery of God finished?  He told this to the prophets?

Is this referring to the resurrected Christ?

The time no longer is that which leads to the completion. OUR time. No more waiting, for those for whom a thousand years is as a thousand years and nothing else....

Do you see, God lives for ever and ever? How long is forever? Which time is being eliminated, the time in which we wait for completion? Or the time in which God continues in existence and is always aware of it?






Offline rosered

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #413 on: July 29, 2009, 09:50:25 PM »
Quote
proper sequence order is  relative to time when there is no

   end and there is no beginning.

Sequence does not require and end or a beginning. That is the very concept and definition of perpetuity. That which is perpetual may have no end and no beginning yet STILL be sequentially perpetual.

Even perfect stillness is sequential if the condition of the observer is AWARE of the stillness. Remove awareness, and THAT is when you remove time because then there are no moments to observe even in perfect stillness.
 ????? :dontknow:   seems it does take a begining and end for the sequence /order of things to happen ??  help
 
 se⋅quence  /ˈsikwəns/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [see-kwuhns]  Show IPA noun, verb, -quenced, -quenc⋅ing.
Use Sequence in a Sentence
–noun 1. the following of one thing after another; succession.
2. order of succession: a list of books in alphabetical sequence.  
3. a continuous or connected series: a sonnet sequence.  
4. something that follows; a subsequent event; result; consequence.
5. Music. a melodic or harmonic pattern repeated three or more times at different pitches with or without modulation.
6. Liturgy. a hymn sometimes sung after the gradual and before the gospel; prose.
7. Movies. a series of related scenes or shots, as those taking place in one locale or at one time, that make up one episode of the film narrative.
8. Cards. a series of three or more cards following one another in order of value, esp. of the same suit.
9. Genetics. the linear order of monomers in a polymer, as nucleotides in DNA or amino acids in a protein.
10. Mathematics. a set whose elements have an order similar to that of the positive integers; a map from the positive integers to a given set.

–verb (used with object) 11. to place in a sequence.
12. Biochemistry. to determine the order of (chemical units in a polymer chain), esp. nucleotides in DNA or RNA or amino acids in a protein.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1350–1400; ME < LL sequentia, equiv. to sequ- (s. of sequī to follow) + -entia -ence


Synonyms:
1. See series. 2. arrangement. 4. outcome, sequel.


LOL, maybe concerning genetics. why did you pick the one concerning genetics.

3. a continuous or connected series: a sonnet sequence.  

Regarding OUR time, our sequences are experienced differently.

God is aware of his continued existence. God is CONTINUIOUS, meaning that he is perpetual. And he exists forever. Look up the word "forever" in the dictionary: http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/forever

What do you see?
 LOL I feel we are dancing around a fire and all side steppin' somehow ... hee hee  :laugh: :heat:
  I picked the word sequence  bro and all of it  seems to  splain it , but genetics lol was  the  most clear to see  lol....
  and Of course I have looked up forever and perpetual before
  and know  that GOD is limitless  and timeless etc ..
 
  that is why the Word of God to me  is for always an eternal /perpetual LIVING WORD   :icon_flower:

Offline Seth

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #414 on: July 29, 2009, 09:52:30 PM »
Quote
and know  that GOD is limitless  and timeless etc ..

Very well, but the Bible proves that there is indeed order to that which heaven creates..... :dontknow:

Without time = no order.

Offline rosered

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #415 on: July 29, 2009, 09:54:29 PM »
rosered, I am just wondering: do you see a difference between time being, and time being a FACTOR? A factor just means that it is influential. NOBODY on this thread is saying that God is BOUND by time, so I wish people would stop the insinuations. :dontknow:
 

 Iam  not  Seth ???  I am saying this  as simple as I know how to say it
 
   the realm under heaven   /the present realm of natural  being ,us included
  is bound  by GOD and  the heavenly realm  which is God is not bound by anything ..  :HeartThrob:

I agree rosered. God is not bound by anything. And, time is not a binding factor.  :hihat:

If the heavenly realm IS God, and God creates things in order (check Genesis 1) then sequence occurs in heaven. Genesis 1 PROVES that  sequence occurs in heaven, which according to you IS God, and according to the bible ACTS according to sequence, which is observable by both him and us.



:thumbsup:  Yes it is Seth but is that not what Shelia was saying too ? :cloud9:

Offline Seth

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #416 on: July 29, 2009, 09:56:18 PM »
Actually YES. Except she calls it lack of time, and I call it a higher level of time.

Offline rosered

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #417 on: July 29, 2009, 10:04:01 PM »
Actually YES. Except she calls it lack of time, and I call it a higher level of time.
:icon_flower: and I call it "time is no more"/fullness there of    ha ha ha!! :laughing7:

    you and her both are saying time is not mesured 
 she says does not exist
 and you say  time  still exisist but not measured  right ?  or am I missin the boat here ? :mblush:
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 10:07:05 PM by rosered »

Offline Seth

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #418 on: July 29, 2009, 10:06:10 PM »
My disagreement with Sheila is that she seems to insist that if I say there is time in the heavenlies that it limits God. That is not what I am saying. Time does not limit God, because time is DEPENDANT on the nature of the observer, not the other way around.

In other words, time does not define God's nature, God's nature defines God's level of time, and our nature defines OUR level of time. Our level of time will END with our own limited nature.

Offline rosered

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #419 on: July 29, 2009, 10:12:52 PM »
My disagreement with Sheila is that she seems to insist that if I say there is time in the heavenlies that it limits God. That is not what I am saying. Time does not limit God, because time is DEPENDANT on the nature of the observer, not the other way around.

In other words, time does not define God's nature, God's nature defines time.
    I now understand your  concept  :thumbsup:
and see the slight variance ..
and you are much more clear with this last post , to me anyways lol
   I am simple and you got to speak plain  for me to "get it "
 
   you were  simple  to understand here and  I  got it , good job ... :cloud9:

trettep

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #420 on: July 29, 2009, 10:16:26 PM »

  and what will you do with your time sequence,

    when the first is the last? In the I AM.

Sheila, the Christ is the FIRSTBORN, - that has significance in Heaven don't you think?  And that means in sequence that He came BEFORE all His brethren.

Paul

trettep

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #421 on: July 29, 2009, 10:21:22 PM »
I'm going to start a new thread called "Does tomorrow already exist".  Let's move the time discussion there.

Paul

Offline willieH

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #422 on: July 29, 2009, 10:41:48 PM »
willieH: Hi trettep... :hithere:

And here I thought you didn't  :HeartThrob: me anymore!  :laughing7:

See Willie is changing things up again.  He says that God is currently ALL in ALL.

Hold on there cowboy... I have not stated anything about CURRENTLY... I have stated that GOD ...IS... ALL in ALL... He remains FOREVER what He IS, at ALL "TIMES" during TIME... however... that is not TRUE of us...

"Currently" applies to US... and for US, we are yet on the JOURNEY of TIME... but for HIM that JOURNEY is already COMPLETE.  And IS perfectly NOTED, ...END, from BEGINNING... He is at BOTH POINTS and all other points in between, at ALL TIMES...

WE are NOT.

EXAMPLE:  The TEACHER has the KNOWLEDGE of the subject presented to the "CLASS", BOTH ...BEFORE the class begins as well as AFTER the class is consumated... The CLASS must journey through time to GAIN the KNOWLEDGE of the TEACHER which was the SAME at the END as it was when the CLASS began... and was THERE ...ALL of the TIME...  

The END of the class resulted in the CLASS gaining the ENLIGHTENMENT of the TEACHER which HAD that ENLIGHTENMENT at the Beginning, middle and End (at all "times")... The STATE of ENLIGHTENMENT, was ALWAYS there with HIM... He did NOT CHANGE at ALL, nor did HE "become" something during the CLASS, ...remaining the SAME throughout the JOURNEY in "TIME" of the students...

The HEAD is relating a knowledge (revealing/revelation) to the BODY... remember the "wet" thing?  The HEAD does not become something... the BODY does... and that something which IS what the HEAD always IS, ...is without BEGINNING or END... For it (the HEAD and ALL its KNOWLEDGE) -- ALWAYS IS...

God does not BECOME something as the benefactor of His Creation... His Creation becomes AWARE of something it was NOT AWARE of...

You just "currently" don't get it bro...  :laughing7:

But that is NOT true is it?  Let's look at scripture to PROVE this point:

1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

I am not changing ANYTHING up trettep... and this Scripture does not prove your point... :mnah:

At the CONCLUSION of TIME, ...all things which were UNSUBDUED in TIME are RETURNED to their ETERNAL state which IS Eternally SUBDUED... and which state IS God -- "ALL in ALL"...

The "when" is applicable to US, not Him... for He noted the END "when" from the BEGINNING "when"... and thus does it occur.  Romans 9 is a good place to find the SOVEREIGNTY of GOD... and that ALL THINGS are ALREADY subject to that SOVEREIGNTY.  Which is WHY He finds FAULT when, all along, ...the "fault" was ordained to "BE", ...BY HIM...  He is working ALL THINGS, Paul...

The "when" in 1 Cor 15:28 is concerning US and our JOURNEY, ...not Him...  He is not on a JOURNEY to and from US... it is the other way around bro... read the parable of the LOST SON... The Son was WITH the Father, left, and then RETURNED... the Father was ALWAYS where He was and the JOURNEY of the SON already NOTED... end from beginning...  :dontknow:

The Father was IN CONTROL of the JOURNEY from its beginning, for the SON could not have "wasted" something he was not GIVEN... which "giving" makes the Father party to what was to come...

The Father then PURPOSELY gave the "LOST SON" the desire to have his inheritance, ...then gave him the bucks... already having created the scenarios which entail "waste"... then, having ALREADY instilled His LOVE in the LOST Son, BEFORE his "journey" began... then recieved the LOST SON, which came back DUE to the REVELATION of the LOVE which "sent him away to learn" of that which was THERE to begin with... just not understood  by the TWO sons... (revealed to them) --

Jer 29:14 GOD causes us to be carried away, and BRINGS us BACK to Himself... which is the journey in time to discover the WONDER of His LOVE which IS within ALL of us and which IS Him, unrevealed, but PRESENT.

The LOVE of the FATHER is that which is REVEALED by the knowledge (journey through time) of GOOD and EVIL, bro... and that LOVE is ALWAYS complete IN and FOR all of us... and ALWAYS has been COMPLETE...

That LOVE was ALWAYS there IN ALL... FOR ALL... and does NOT CHANGE... it is ETERNAL... the FATHER always IS... that LOVE.

Willie, we just can't IGNORE the word "WHEN" here.  The matter concerning ALL in ALL is regarding God's Spirit.  God's Spirit is NOT currently ALL in ALL.

You can't ignore it because it is beyond your eyes to see otherwise, Paul...  :dontknow:

The word "CURRENTLY" that you use... is a TERM which is applicable to US... not HIM... For GOD is IN ALL POINTS of TIME at ALL "TIMES" = OMNIPRESENT = PRESENT everywhere, and everywhen.

If He is indeed (from HIS eternal standpoint, not being INHIBITED by His Creation) PRESENT in the END... and "as you percieve", ...IN the "when" of the END -- He IS ALL in ALL... it is US who finally arrive at that "END when"... To find He was ALREADY THERE, from the BEGINNING... ALL in ALL...

It ain't that hard bro... but "SEEING" is only enabled by SIGHT... which presently eludes you...  :sigh:

...willieH  :cloud9:
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 03:26:26 AM by willieH »

Offline Seth

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #423 on: July 29, 2009, 10:49:34 PM »
WillieH, I love you bro. Can we have a conversation without eluding to the idea that those who disagree are blind and unable to see?  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

trettep

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Re: Personal Savior?
« Reply #424 on: July 29, 2009, 10:56:40 PM »
willieH: Hi trettep... :hithere:

And here I thought you didn't  :HeartThrob: me anymore!  :laughing7:

See Willie is changing things up again.  He says that God is currently ALL in ALL.

Hold on there cowboy... I have not stated anything about CURRENTLY... I have stated that GOD ...IS... ALL in ALL... He remains FOREVER what He IS, at ALL "TIMES" during TIME... however... that is not TRUE of us...

"Currently" applies to US... and for US, we are yet on the JOURNEY of TIME... but for HIM that JOURNEY is already COMPLETE.  And IS perfectly NOTED, ...END, from BEGINNING... He is at BOTH POINTS and all other points in between, at ALL TIMES...

WE are NOT.

EXAMPLE:  The TEACHER has the KNOWLEDGE of the subject presented to the "CLASS", BOTH ...BEFORE the class begins as well as AFTER the class is consumated... The CLASS must journey through time to GAIN the KNOWLEDGE of the TEACHER which was the SAME at the END as it was when the CLASS began... and was THERE ...ALL of the TIME...  

The END of the class resulted in the CLASS gaining the ENLIGHTENMENT of the TEACHER which HAD that ENLIGHTENMENT at the Beginning, middle and End (at all "times")... The STATE of ENLIGHTENMENT, was ALWAYS there with HIM... He did NOT CHANGE at ALL, nor die HE "become" something during the CLASS, ...remaining the SAME throughout the JOURNEY in "TIME" of the students...

The HEAD is relating a knowledge (revealing/revelation) to the BODY... remember the "wet" thing?  The HEAD does not become something... the BODY does... and that something which IS what the HEAD always IS, ...is without BEGINNING or END... For it (the HEAD and ALL its KNOWLEDGE) -- ALWAYS IS...

God does not BECOME something as the benefactor of His Creation... His Creation becomes AWARE of something it was NOT AWARE of...

You just "currently" don't get it bro...  :laughing7:

But that is NOT true is it?  Let's look at scripture to PROVE this point:

1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

I am not changing ANYTHING up trettep... and this Scripture does not prove your point... :mnah:

At the CONCLUSION of TIME, ...all things which were UNSUBDUED in TIME are RETURNED to their ETERNAL state which IS Eternally SUBDUED... and which state IS God -- "ALL in ALL"...

The "when" is applicable to US, not Him... for He noted the END "when" from the BEGINNING "when"... and thus does it occur.  Romans 9 is a good place to find the SOVEREIGNTY of GOD... and that ALL THINGS are ALREADY subject to that SOVEREIGNTY.  Which is WHY He finds FAULT when, all along, ...the "fault" was ordained to "BE", ...BY HIM...  He is working ALL THINGS, Paul...

The "when" in 1 Cor 15:28 is concerning US and our JOURNEY, ...not Him...  He is not on a JOURNEY to and from US... it is the other way around bro... read the parable of the LOST SON... The Son was WITH the Father, left, and then RETURNED... the Father was ALWAYS where He was and the JOURNEY of the SON already NOTED... end from beginning...  :dontknow:

The Father was IN CONTROL of the JOURNEY from its beginning, for the SON could not have "wasted" something he was not GIVEN... which "giving" makes the Father party to what was to come...

The Father then PURPOSELY gave the "LOST SON" the desire to have his inheritance, ...then gave him the bucks... already having created the scenarios which entail "waste"... then, having ALREADY instilled His LOVE in the LOST Son, BEFORE his "journey" began... then recieved the LOST SON, which came back DUE to the REVELATION of the LOVE which "sent him away to learn" of that which was THERE to begin with... just not understood  by the TWO sons... (revealed to them) --

Jer 29:14 GOD causes us to be carried away, and BRINGS us BACK to Himself... which is the journey in time to discover the WONDER of His LOVE which IS within ALL of us and which IS Him, unrevealed, but PRESENT.

The LOVE of the FATHER is that which is REVEALED by the knowledge (journey through time) of GOOD and EVIL, bro... and that LOVE is ALWAYS complete IN and FOR all of us... and ALWAYS has been COMPLETE...

That LOVE was ALWAYS there IN ALL... FOR ALL... and does NOT CHANGE... it is ETERNAL... the FATHER always IS... that LOVE.

Willie, we just can't IGNORE the word "WHEN" here.  The matter concerning ALL in ALL is regarding God's Spirit.  God's Spirit is NOT currently ALL in ALL.

You can't ignore it because it is beyond your eyes to see otherwise, Paul...  :dontknow:

The word "CURRENTLY" that you use... is a TERM which is applicable to US... not HIM... For GOD is IN ALL POINTS of TIME at ALL "TIMES" = OMNIPRESENT = PRESENT everywhere, and everywhen.

If He is indeed (from HIS eternal standpoint, not being INHIBITED by His Creation) PRESENT in the END... and "as you percieve", ...IN the "when" of the END -- He IS ALL in ALL... it is US who finally arrive at that "END when"... To find He was ALREADY THERE, from the BEGINNING... ALL in ALL...

It ain't that hard bro... but "SEEING" is only enabled by SIGHT... which presently eludes you...  :sigh:

...willieH  :cloud9:

No, willie.  God is NOT NOW ALL in ALL.  You say that He IS ALL IN ALL.  But His WORD says that He ISN'T ALL in ALL.  Which should I believe Willie?  Should I believe YOU or should I believe GOD?  Obviously, I should believe God.

Paul