Author Topic: how do i become a real christian  (Read 1062 times)

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Offline sven

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how do i become a real christian
« on: February 10, 2009, 10:30:49 PM »
to be honest, I'm not sure if I'm a Christian at all, yes I believe in the Bible and know it very well, I believe in Yahweh and also in Jesus but in a way maybe not prober.

I can hardly imagine the ressurection of the dead or an afterlive at all, I like the Jewish term 'olam haba' to express my idea of the afterlive though I have no imagination of it, I think there will be both reward and punishment in the 'olam haba' but limited punishment and finally all men take part in the 'olam haba'.

This seems more a Jewish-philosophical belief and maybe my belief is more Jewish than Christian, i keep Sabbath (though maybe not proper), maybe I'm also a kind of unitarian universalist, maybe it's due the teaching of hell why I'm maybe no "real" Christian, I know some very fine people who I really believe them that they "met" Jesus in a kind of spiritual way, how can I become a real Christian aswell?

Do you know this thoughts?

martincisneros

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2009, 11:27:45 PM »
Ephesians 2:13 says that we're brought near by the Blood of Christ.  Colossians 1:20 says that He's made peace for all through the Blood of His Cross.  1John 1:7 says that if we walk in the light as He's in the light, we have fellowship one with another and the Blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin.  1Timothy 2:6 says that Jesus is the corresponding ransom for all men, but 2Corinthians 5:20 still indicates reconciling ourself to God and Romans 10:9 indicates confessing Jesus as your Lord from a heart that believes that God raised Jesus from the dead.  Romans 10:10 says that with the heart this confession is made unto salvation. 

A lot of folks that would come around here would balk at a "sinner's prayer" being written out, but all that those are, are a heart felt reaching out to the Lord and calling upon Him while He is near, according to Isaiah 55.  Many would say that there's no mystical power to a particular set of words, per se, but Romans 10:9-10 get fairly specific.  You've been growing in the understanding of Jesus as the Saviour of the whole world, especially of those that believe according to 1Timothy 4:10, but personally salvation is when you've embraced Him as your Saviour. 

Acts 17 and Acts 20 indicate that we should both repent and have faith in our Lord Jesus.  If you compare Revelation 3:20 with Ephesians 2:13 then you've got a better idea of the nature of the knocking that our Lord is doing on the door of your heart.  Jesus taught to ask, seek, and knock because those that asked would receive, those that sought would find, and those that knocked would have the door opened to them.  1Peter 1:17-21 (I'd encourage you to read it) say that we're redeemed by the precious Blood of Christ.  1Peter 1:21 says something very similar to Romans 10:9:

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

1Peter 1:22 says that our souls are purified by obeying the truth, and verse 23 says that you're born again not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible seed, through the Word of God which lives and abides.  1Corinthians 15 says that it's the resurrection of Jesus Christ that makes our salvation good.  He said that if Christ Jesus isn't raised from the dead, then we would be dead in our sins without the hope of recovery.

If you believe these things, simply pray this prayer if you wish to know for certain on Scriptural grounds that you're a Christian:

Father, in the Name of Jesus, I believe that You've raised Jesus from the dead and I confess Him as the Lord of my life from this day forward, according to Romans 10:9.  I believe that He was delivered for my offenses, and was raised again for my justification according to Romans 4:25.  I believe that according to Romans 5:10-11 that I was reconciled to God by the death of His Son and that I am saved by His life, and not only so, but I also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ by whom we have received the universal reconciliation.  I reconcile myself to You, according to 2Corinthians 5:20.  Therefore, I am now Your righteousness according to 2Corinthians 5:21.  Fill me with Your Holy Spirit, according to Romans 5:5, Ephesians 5:18, and John 17:22.  I'll let the Word of Christ dwell in me richly in all wisdom, according to Colossians 3:12-17 in the Name of Jesus.  I thank You, Father, that Your yoke is easy and Your burden is light.  I now know for certain through the Scriptures and through the Holy Spirit that You give to those that obey You that I am a Christian.  I thank You, Father in Jesus' Name for our reconciliation to each other.  I know that I'm a New Creation in Christ according to 2Corinthians 5:17-21.  I thank You, Father, that Jesus is the propitiation for my sin, according to 1John 2:1-2.  Amen.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2009, 11:35:37 PM »

I left church and yes, threw the baby out too,  started from scratch and haven't regretted it.

well, at least until I am burning in hell forever.    :happy3:

martincisneros

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2009, 11:47:37 PM »
I left church and yes, threw the baby out too,  started from scratch and haven't regretted it.
Even if you did, it's not likely that you ever renounced having prayed a prayer of reconciliation with God by the death of His Son, acknowledging a belief in being saved by His Blood and by His resurrection, even if you haven't promoted others starting like you started.  How we start in the faith is how we continue in the faith, according to Colossians 2:6-7 until we're the fulness of Him that filleth all in all according to Ephesians 1:23:

6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving. (Colossians 2:6-7)

23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all. (Ephesians 1:23)

17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him. (Colossians 3:17)

7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. (John 15:7)

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2009, 12:06:29 AM »


I know what your saying martin and what I said is how it is.  No matter what forum you go to when it comes to the bible, they all think they got it goin on.  I pleyed along as best I could trying to find my way, well, I have found it,  even really come to that realization just last night.

Did I forgo meditation or prayer?  No, but I threw out any traditional idea that I must pray or think a certain way in any form to be worthy of anything.   Because who calls me worthy in the first place?  Well, to start with,  every human being is of inherant value because they exist.   I still believe there is a God,  but finding some vision of what that God is made of is not the criteria for our worth.   It is icing on the cake that we can come to some sense that there is a loving power throughout all existance.

It was what I sensed as a child, to try to box that up into a theological set of writings is impossible.   Returning to that basically nameless spirit in the sense that it is greater than me and loves me completely unconditionally is what I did.  No fear, no presence of others saying,  "danger danger" and pressure to be guided by man because we have a book.

I realize if that breaks the forum rules, I will politely exit, but as I threw it all out, immediatly some people came into my life that understand me, love me unconditionally and accept what I am working through.   I have waited my whole life for that and the timing is perfect.


Offline sparrow

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2009, 01:59:54 AM »
Sven... Ditch the labels. I did.
Who says you have to label yourself or put yourself in a box?
You don't.
Mankind loves a label...
God doesn't require a label.

In the words of Fred Rogers... "I like you just the way you are. You are special... just the way you are."
God loves you for who you are. Not because of what box you're in or what label is currently stuck to you.

When people ask me if I'm a christian, I tell them I don't like labels. I don't know what "Christian" means to you, so I can't answer that question. Honestly, I'm surprised so many CAN so easily label theirselves. I tell them my beliefs but I don't fit into a category.  I don't even really like to say "Universalist" because, again... a label. I don't know what someone elses ideas of a universalist are. I share what I believe about God and life and the afterlife and Jesus.

labels, to me, are a trap. and a hindrance. and they close people off from others... either in your mind or the other person's mind. It creates a barrier. a prejudice. It's too closed. God is WAY too big for me to think I can fit myself neatly in some little box-o-beliefs. I grow and change all the time. I outgrew a few labels before I realized that it's not worth it to keep trying to adhere to one.

That's just been my experience.

Well, not sure if that helped you or just made things worse...  :happy3: :sigh: :happy3: but just thought I'd throw in my  :2c:.

peace.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Molly

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2009, 05:49:42 AM »
We have the habit of driving away thoughts about ourselves because we fear the gnawings of conscience.  Sincerity may be the key which will open the door through which one part can see another.  With sincerity, man may look and see something.  Sincerity with oneself is very difficult for a thick crust has grown over essence.  Each year, a man puts on new clothes, a new mask, again and again.  All this should be gradually removed--one should free oneself, uncover oneself.  Until a man uncovers himself, he cannot see.

--G. I. Gurdjieff



Matthew 11:25

At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned,  and revealed them to little children.




I ask you to believe nothing that you cannot verify for yourself.

--Views from the Real World



« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 05:58:32 AM by Molly »

Offline Cardinal

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2009, 08:18:49 AM »
If you believe these things, simply pray this prayer if you wish to know for certain on Scriptural grounds that you're a Christian:

 :cloud9: Amen, Martin.....but for those like myself that didn't have anyone to tell them what a scriptural prayer was, this is what worked for me.....

"And BTW Jesus, IF You're real, come into my heart and take over my life because I don't care if I live another day."

God meets us where we're at, and I can tell you for a fact, God HEARD that prayer, for I was a different person from that moment on. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2009, 09:20:01 AM »
I wonder if you really believe if you just follow the teaching of others.
Then it quickly becomes (forced) behavior....
The real answer is somewhere in the Bible. Find it (according) to you and you have your own personal belief. Maybe just as wrong as many denominations but it's real belief.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2009, 01:35:31 PM »
If you feel the pull, the Spirit drawing you, believe in your heart and confess with your mouth Jesus is the Son of God.  Trust that His death for your sins and His resurrection is all you will trust and depend on (that's believing on Him).  Whosoever calls upon the name of the Master [Jesus] shall be saved   Romans 10:13.

The scripture comes to mind, which sounds as if you could have been asking this very question, Sven...Acts 16:30, 31  ...[the jailor] asked, "Masters, what do I have to do so that I might be saved?  Now they said, Believe on the Master Yesu [Jesus], and you and your household will be saved".

I can say all the above, and I believe it's true and scriptural.  The bottom line though, I believe Sven, is trust in Jesus, that His death and resurrection is your only salvation...Then as He leads you, you will find that He's growing you, changing you, bringing you more into His likeness...being a follower of Jesus.

God's blessing, James.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 01:57:27 PM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline sven

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2009, 09:56:47 PM »
thanks for your answers, I must think about - little hard for me to express my thougths

what about you WhiteWings, didn't you say you're kind of agnostic, do you believe in Jesus now?

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2009, 11:06:47 PM »
Difficult question Sven. I can't really answer it; but I'll try to explain with a few oneliners

a] I'm doubting.
b] I'm interested.
c] I'm searching.
d] I can't live by Biblical standards. (partly don't want)
e] Science hints toward "there is more" (IMO)
f] When I'm defending some spirutual theory that's not because of being deeply religious but because I threat the Bible as a science book. If you state on page one banana's are red you can't state on page 5 they are pink.

So:
From the p.o.v. of atheists I'm insane.
From the p.o.v. of Christians I'm a heretic.

So that's about it Sven. Now you still don't know  :laughhand:
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 11:08:37 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2009, 11:13:44 PM »
I think for people like us, ww, it's hard to believe in the specific until we meet him on our own road to Damascus--

And, maybe that is true for everyone, as Cardinal says,

for I was a different person from that moment on.



But, maybe some nuts are just a little harder to crack.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2009, 11:21:22 PM »
I think for people like us, ww, it's hard to believe in the specific until we meet him on our own road to Damascus--

And, maybe that is true for everyone, as Cardinal says,

for I was a different person from that moment on.
So you where south of heaven for a long time?
Not thaught starting at birth?


Quote
But, maybe some nuts are just a little harder to crack.
I know. Just squeeze harder and harder and the nut splinters all over the place. Useless to eat.
So basicly you are saying I'll will change from nuts to scatter-brain?  :boydance:
Is that what the Biblical term 'translated' means?  :thinking:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2009, 11:27:16 PM »
I did fly south for a long time there, culminating in a hotel room hiding from people wanting to kill me, and reading the Gideon Bible at 4am where I met God face to face in the book of Psalms.

It's a long story. :laughing7:

Gideons, your work is not in vain!
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 11:33:49 PM by Molly »

Offline Molly

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Re: how do i become a real christian
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2009, 12:19:33 AM »
Quote from: ww
I know. Just squeeze harder and harder and the nut splinters all over the place. Useless to eat.
So basicly you are saying I'll will change from nuts to scatter-brain? 
Is that what the Biblical term 'translated' means?

Yeah,basically.   Translated means carried across [because we are too destroyed/weak/incapable/dead to walk on our own lol].




Quick definitions (translate)

▸ verb:  physics: subject to movement in which every part of the body moves parallel to and the same distance as every other point on the body

▸ verb:  change from one form or medium into another ("Braque translated collage into oil")



Heb 11:5


5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

"translated"

G3346
μετατίθημι
metatithēmi
met-at-ith'-ay-mee
From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert: - carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.