Author Topic: Led by God or Led by Man?  (Read 1268 times)

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Loveroftruth

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Led by God or Led by Man?
« on: November 28, 2007, 10:49:38 PM »
Led by God or led by man?

I wonder if God had ever desired us to learn and be led by man instead of Him?

I read so many quotes of what "so and so wrote" or "so and so believes" and I wonder is this good that we are led by what someone else thinks they have seen?

Is this not where mixture comes in? Where we are swayed by something other then God?

As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

I cant help but to look in the OT and see that it was never the goal of Abraham, Jeremiah, Noah or Joseph to gather with others to compare what God has said and to get confirmations….. No, they each just walked in what God spoke to them.

I could be wrong and I know it sure is fun to gather with others and talk about what God has shown us, I for one get a lot of joy from it since my walk is a solitude walk… but I wonder if we sometimes may take it too far…?

Many times I start to find it is toxic for me to hear what others say….

Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God….. Faith for each of us comes by hearing what He says to US personally, for our life or season…. And when we hear, we can boldy walk…. Yet when we allow all other voices in, does this not effect us?

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 11:05:17 PM by Loveroftruth »

Offline Molly

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Re: Led by God or Led by Man?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2007, 04:12:54 AM »
well I think in the old testament, there were just a few who had the direct line to God, and mostly you could tell who they were.  I mean you could watch Moses go up the mountain and disappear into lightning, thunder, and cloud, and then he would come down with words from God.  Of course, they mostly didn't listen then, like they don't listen now.  But I think now we are in a transition period, of many people in communication with God, and also many false prophets, but the end result will be a one on one relationship for everyone.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Led by God or Led by Man?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2007, 06:03:58 PM »
 :cloud9: You know, God has a fail-safe plan on that. We can read anything written by anyone, and even if every word they wrote is the inspired Word of God and truth, if the Spirit doesn't quicken it or make it life in us, and we don't then walk thru the fire needed to bake that word in us and walk it out, then it didn't profit us one iota, even if it was truth.

This is why no man can add to the measure of the stature of Christ, because if reading truth was all that was required, then it would be of works and man would have room to boast. So this puts our salvation to the utmost experience squarely back where it belongs; off of us and onto Him and His Spirit, which does the works. Which brings us back to, without faith it is impossible to please Him. We cannot, by taking carnal thought, keep ourselves. He is so funny and so amazing to me in so many ways, not the least of which, is His ability to always be one step ahead of the subtility of the beastly carnal mind. Blessings to all.....

"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

amanda

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Re: Led by God or Led by Man?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2007, 10:39:50 PM »
We can read volumes about God and hear other people talk of their experiences of God but at the end of the day we are alone with God.  As much as people may want to help a friend to "see" I believe that we can sometimes get in the way, stand between God and the person we are trying to help.  If God is working in us He is also working in everyone else.  I can remember, sort of, something in the bible about entering thru a gate, maybe we try to get people "in our helping" to enter thru our gate instead of our Fathers gate.
 amanda

Loveroftruth

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Re: Led by God or Led by Man?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2007, 11:05:01 PM »
We can read volumes about God and hear other people talk of their experiences of God but at the end of the day we are alone with God.  As much as people may want to help a friend to "see" I believe that we can sometimes get in the way, stand between God and the person we are trying to help.  If God is working in us He is also working in everyone else.  I can remember, sort of, something in the bible about entering thru a gate, maybe we try to get people "in our helping" to enter thru our gate instead of our Fathers gate.
 amanda

 

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Kept

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Re: Led by God or Led by Man?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2007, 12:05:26 AM »
great post amanda

now if I can just remember it this time as I seem to learn it then forget it then learn it then forget it ...................................

man I must be the queen of 'going around the mountain' worn quite a few shoes out on those trips

kept

Offline 97531

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Re: Led by God or Led by Man?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2007, 12:25:25 AM »
:goodpost: Amanda

The problem is, people are lazy and want a shrink-wrap message, or an executive summary.

Does not work like that I am afraid.
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Offline Kratos

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Re: Led by God or Led by Man?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2007, 08:35:25 AM »
My take on this one is a little different. I think that it has always been God's plan for His Word to become flesh in us so it can dwell among us. The Jews and Muslims have a major problem with Christianity because they cannot conceive of a perfect God being manifested in imperfect flesh. But, God says that it was to our advantage that He brought God and man together in one.

Jesus was made like unto His brethren so He could be touched with the feeling of our infirmity and be tempted as we are yet without sin. It sounds like blashemy, but this is really almost too precious to utter. God is saying that He became a better God or High Priest toward man by having become a man.

On the other side of the coin, one of the problems with the Old Covenant is the people always got a wrong impression of who God is and what He was trying to say when all they had was the Word written on tables of stone. Yet, Jesus comes through the incarnation of God coming in flesh and now He could say "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father". The Father and His Word became more easy to see by coming through a man in an earthen vessel.

I made this point on a thread about why God used men to write the Bible. He could have sent angels that would repeat His Word without human mixture or He could have set up a giant celestial CD player so there would be no errors, but could we have heard it or understood it if man did not add flesh to it. When we read the Word, we hear God and we hear Paul or John or Peter. Each uses their own experiences and ways of communicating to give the Word in a way we can relate and hear.

I know that we have all been burned through men who misrepresented God and have struggled with human additions to the Word, but God chose these methods of delivery because He knew it would be improved upon by coming through men.

The funny thing is that God is not near as offended in our flesh or our being human as religion has taught us that He is. He really likes Son of Man and Son of God in one vessel. This treasure in earthen vessels is His way.

So, I do think that He intended for us to hear Him alone, but He intended this to be done through human vessels. There is a reason that the majority of Christians go to a church to hear a pastor or prophet or a teacher. They are gifted to bring the Word to life in a way that many cannot do without them. At least, until they come to the place in God where they can commune with Him on their own.

I know that many are now outside the camp experiencing the first of Tabernacles in the Holy of Holies with the Lord. But, those who are here have only come here because they have passed through Passover and Pentacost. We would make a grave error if we thought that the 5-fold gifts of the church or Pentacostal Age are not necessary for those who are at that place in God. Yes, we are coming to the day where some are passing through the vail and experiencing the Lord one on one and face to face. But, people will still have to pass through without skipping steps to get to this place. There will still be evangelists preaching the Lamb slain at the Brazen Alter and pastors washing with the water of the Word at the Laver for those who are experiencing Passover. There will still be teachers, prophets and apostles ministering from the Lampstand, the Table of Shewbread, and the Alter of Incense in the Holy Place in the Pentacostal realm. So all may eventually cross over to the Ark in the Tabernacles realm and hear Him without man's help.

There are billions of people that will be saved in this Tabernacles Age through the Manifested Sons of God, but they will not just skip steps and come straight in the Holy of Holies and into the fulness of Tabernacles. They will have to be processed as we were so they can leave behind their carnal minds and their unsaved souls. No flesh can enter behind the vail and the Word ministered in earthen vessels is God's way.

John
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 08:39:33 AM by Kratos »
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Offline fire walker

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Re: Led by God or Led by Man?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2007, 10:17:55 AM »
In my personal walk this revelation came some years ago that has been a comfort
to me inwardly, that church is a lot the same as going to school, we learn what we learn for a purpose to be able to read, and learn other basics, after we are finished with school we don't stay at the school but go out to get the experience of practicing what we were taught, which in my personal life was the school of hard knocks because my formal education was short and quick with 8th grade, however I am thankful of the view of life as it came to me, and appreciate the good that has come of it all.

Just because we don't stay in school and continue corporately in that manner any longer does not mean we have anything against schooling, I sent my 4 children to school, just because I am an adult and now a great grandparent does not mean I am saying school is not needed because I no longer attend school, school is where children receive the basics that they may need so when they become older and matured they are ready for meat, to face the challenges, adversity and loss without bitterness and successes without arrogance or boasting, this eventualy comes as we receive it in our own order some early in their day and some in the last hour.

I know School is about the natural learning and Church is supposed to be for spiritual fellowship and learning basics. That doesn't mean that children can't be home schooled, many children receive good educations and maybe better with home schoolng, and same with Church. I was not raised up in a church going family but I learned plenty about the gospel and the bible in gatherings in homes at times, sometimes in summer at a large park or at a wilderness retreat many would call it, really it was just an old farm house that people called home out on many acres, they were farmers, I became aware of spiritual things at a young age and it was a comforting feeling even during my childhood when times were tougher on grown up family folks than us kids and I was aware of that, the effects of the great depression here were not recovered from really until after world war two was over, no one we knew even had enough money to completely use up the monthly ration stamps aloted let alone buy anything else outside of basic needs and we were thankful we had that much, some of us without receiving much milk had to learn to trust in God and eat the spiritual meat at some early ages.

Peace,
Fire Walker

 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 01:48:11 AM by fire walker »
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noreputation

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Re: Led by God or Led by Man?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2007, 07:55:31 AM »
Quote
:cloud9: You know, God has a fail-safe plan on that. We can read anything written by anyone, and even if every word they wrote is the inspired Word of God and truth, if the Spirit doesn't quicken it or make it life in us, and we don't then walk thru the fire needed to bake that word in us and walk it out, then it didn't profit us one iota, even if it was truth.

Card,

That is good!  The Spirit is the key to OUR UNDERSTANDING, whether we are reading a book, or even interpreting something God has spoken to us directly!  I believe folks often get into error not ony from following the voice of the stranger in someone else, but it can happen just as easily following the voice of the stranger in us!  The Spirit must interpret what He speaks to us.  But like you have said Card, God know how to bake that word in us.

I have always believed we must hear His voice directly if we are to stay on track.  However, that has a different meaning to me now.  I have also learned to hear His voice in others.  There is a difference between hearing another speak and hearing the voice of God speak through them.  So I am thankful for those over time that God has allowed to articulate the mystery of His will.  Sometime I have read something I have never heard before and the life of God in me would leap!  The interesting thing is I was never led to read something until it was time for me to experience that truth.

I was aware of brother Eby for two years before I could read any of his writings.  When I was finally released they were right in line with what God was speaking to my heart, yet they also stretched me.  There were things the Spirit was speaking to me that were difficult for me to hear because of fear and religious leftovers still in my fridge.

Doug
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 07:58:37 AM by noreputation »

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Led by God or Led by Man?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2007, 12:35:01 PM »
 :cloud9: Amen to your post, Doug. That is exactly what it has been like for me. He taught me to hear Him for myself first, then in others. He only let me read 2 books when I first got saved and that was all except the Bible for the first 2 years of my walk, and HE picked them out by His Spirit, not me. Later down the road, after He had laid the foundation He desired, He would allow me to read others from time to time, but it was confirm what He had already taught me to strengthen my faith that I was hearing Him and I was not as alone as I thought. Alone, because I had already received the left foot of fellowship within 6 months of coming to Him, for trying to tell them there was no rapture, LOL. :mshock: He has a plan for our life and our walk, amen?

I also wanted to add that there is a third way He teaches you and that is thru spiritual experiences that HE initiates thru His Spirit. It is contact with the LIVING Word on a more "intimate" personal basis, that brings revelation that is experienced instantly, instead of walking it out. In the beginning of our walk, the literal Word reveals the nature of the Spiritual Word. Then the Spiritual Word reveals Himself more and more with the literal Word as a witness of happened in the Spirit. Blessings to you.......
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 12:50:55 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

noreputation

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Re: Led by God or Led by Man?
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2007, 03:30:03 PM »
 

Quote
I also wanted to add that there is a third way He teaches you and that is thru spiritual experiences that HE initiates thru His Spirit. It is contact with the LIVING Word on a more "intimate" personal basis, that brings revelation that is experienced instantly, instead of walking it out. In the beginning of our walk, the literal Word reveals the nature of the Spiritual Word. Then the Spiritual Word reveals Himself more and more with the literal Word as a witness of happened in the Spirit. Blessings to you.......

Card,

Hmmm.  I cannot say that I have experience this as you have described.  I have received revelation instantly, but much to my surprise it has always been a foretaste that I then had to walk out.  If there is more I welcome it!

BLESS YOU!

Doug

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Led by God or Led by Man?
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2007, 06:03:41 PM »
 :cloud9: It's hard to describe the things of God. It's like it's already part of your nature when it comes, and you're like, "When did THAT happen?"  He is awesome beyond words. Father, we give You praise today........ :HeartThrob:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

noreputation

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Re: Led by God or Led by Man?
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2007, 07:38:13 PM »
:cloud9: It's hard to describe the things of God. It's like it's already part of your nature when it comes, and you're like, "When did THAT happen?"  He is awesome beyond words. Father, we give You praise today........ :HeartThrob:

When you put it that way it makes perfect sense.   :thumbsup: