Author Topic: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...  (Read 5180 times)

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Offline Molly

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2007, 06:35:31 AM »
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As for the devil horns... A lot of that stuff is non sense.  Pure and utter non-sense.  Do you believe that an actual curse comes out of your hands if you do the 'devil horns'? A curse is in the intent, not doing some motion with your hands.  A curse is from the heart and that is why it is bad.

I wouldn't say it is a curse so much as a signal.  They are signaling each other, declaring themselves, while the world sleeps on...

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2007, 07:05:34 AM »
Back in the 70's I thought YWAM had some really good things.  In some ways I suppose I still do if it's still around.  But a lot of it now I see is clearly bunk.  I think Ray Comfort was with that organization.  I just feel so bad for the discipleship doctrines that captivate people like Kirk Cameron.  They don't honor their conscience in being their own man.  They're in submission to an elder and really are victimized by them.  God is JEALOUS.  His relationship with us is without another mediator.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

shibboleth

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2007, 05:23:01 PM »
I put 3 messages there just a while ago, Bernie. The man's book is over 25 bucks and has a horrid picture of a giant pot with demons trying to get out of it. Jerry says we choose to go to such an ugly place....what a crock. Who chooses to be tortured, burned, scalded and in misery forever. These hellfire folk must be crazy, or they just don't think about the nasty things they believe.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2007, 07:58:35 PM »
"...in whom the god of this eon blinds the apprehensions of the unbelieving, so that the illumination of the evangel of the glory of Christ, Who is the Image of the invisible God, does not irradiate them." (2 Cor 4:4)

There is a god-power blinding them to the glory.  Is Christ fully formed in us?  How much do we see?  Elders, who can see for others until they see, are not to keep the blind dependant, binding others to themselves, but are to raise up Christ in others that they may see for themselves.  Rather that actually lead on into a futher place, carnal "leadership" of the religious bureaucrazies just perpetuate their own superior positions, lording over the ignorant in gentile authority, standing in the entrance but neither entering themselves nor allowing those that are about to enter to do so.  Many teach Jesus left and sent the Holy Spirit to put them in charge over us rather than to put us under the charge of Jesus through the Holy Spirit then leave.  My measure of "ministry" is how much of the expression of Christ I can raise up in others.

---James
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Transponder

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2007, 04:33:07 PM »
I watched this video yesterday and the fact that Ray uses some of the OT commandments to prove God's existense was so wrong; when Kirk said they would use no scriptures to prove God.

The fact that Kirk and Ray ask people if they lie, commit adultery (in the heart), and steal is proof that all they have is the OT and law to try to get people to listen to their spiel. I always tell people how much God loves them....no matter what they've done or will do.

Ray holds up a picture and said that scientists locked in a room would agree that someone had painted it. The fact is that scientists wouldn't know that someone painted the picture unless they had been told that fact, or seen someone paint it themselves. All scientific truths have to be observable....if I told 100 people to put a bar of Ivory soap in water to see if it floats; that's scientific observation. But, to simply stair at a picture to "prove" someone painted it doesn't prove a thing.

For me, anyway, the fact that I can't prove God exists is greatly satisfying to my soul. If God was provable mathmatically, scientifically, or any other way, He would be no greater than the items that are used to prove their scientific validity.

I watched a number of these utubes from athiests and noticed the hellfire doctrine came up repeatedly. I don't think these people hate God, they hate the idea that God would burn and torment people forever for no other reason than they didn't believe in Him. IMO of course.

Atheist input    :mblush: The techniques used by the theists in the video are rhetorical tricks. They are, in effect, fallacies, not evidence. They are, not to put too fine a point upon it, deceivers.

I am aware, of course, that the general thrust of belief on this forum is with the atheists, after all the arguments used against hell-doctrine is pretty much those employed by those unbelievers. It is a constant wonder to me that secular logic is used here to dispose of hell, but is discarded as soon as that is done. Applied to any other religious matter, the tools of logic are abandoned and we are back to Faith, 'who knows' and proving the Bible by quoting the Bible.

You are right; atheists don't hate God, how can one hate what desn't exist? They reject, very strongly, just as you do here on Tentmaker, the horrible idea of a god who is supposed to be good and just dreaming up something like hell. Odd thing is, that as soon as we start to look at something that the Bible definitely does say - that God destroyed most of his creation with a flood, that he killed the first born of Egypt, destroys Amalek's people, assassinates Israelites (Exodus 32.) poisons his followers (num 11.33) slaughters, murders, destroys, maims, curses..the list goes on... won't we get the sort of excuses that Mr. Comfort and his ilk use to justify their beliefs?

I just suggest applying the lessons of Luke 6.42. and ask whether those things which Comfort and co do which you sadly shake all your heads over is not what you yourselves do in every biblical doctrine - other than the doctrine of hell?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 04:38:47 PM by Transponder »

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2007, 04:55:04 PM »
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author=Molly link=topic=1553.msg15151#msg15151 date=1196998528]
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..and then they wonder why there is so much anger?

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Kept, they are angry at God.  Trust me on this one.  I'm surrounded by them.

Notice how they spend almost as much time talking about God as we do?

Molly, might I suggest that, rather than post........unsupported statements....(I am trying to avoid the "L" word...) about atheists, of whom you know nothing, you might first put some of your points to them? You could try any atheist forum; you could ask me.

Atheists are not angry at God. They do not believe in God. They are angry at the constant forcing of religion down their necks. They are angry at being told how they should live their lives, with a religion they don't believe as the touchstone. They are angry, Molly, at being the subject of uniformed and deprecatory remarks such as those (I regret to say), set out by yourself above.

Atheists would not spend a moment talking abut God, religion or the Bible, were it not that Theists of a thousand different kinds, some kindly, others hostile, some positively dangerous, but ALL convinced that it it their duty to have everyone think as they do, are pouring money and effort into peddling the religious product and to misrepresenting anyone that that doesn't want to buy - in as foolish, misled or actually some form of wicked criminal. That, Molly, is what they are angry at, and that is what they are fighting against.

Their agenda is simple; to be left alone to believe or not to believe.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 05:05:51 PM by Transponder »

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2007, 05:04:50 PM »
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I watched a number of these utubes from athiests and noticed the hellfire doctrine came up repeatedly. I don't think these people hate God, they hate the idea that God would burn and torment people forever for no other reason than they didn't believe in Him. IMO of course.

I got that feeling too. I am sure a lot of them believe in God, but hate the God that Ray and Kirck teach, their God is irrational.

 :Sparkletooth:  Of course you are sure that a lot of atheists believe in God, just as a lot of gays that I have met were sure that all non gays were really gay, but just refused to admit it
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 05:10:34 PM by Transponder »

Offline Molly

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2007, 06:25:32 PM »
Hi Transponder.  I take it you're an atheist?  I didn't make an unsupported statement.  I have said earlier that I am surrounded by atheists and have been all my life.  So, although I don't really know everything that goes on in their heads, I can make some statements about my experience of them.  And, my experience is that they hate God.  That's why I made that statement.  It's something that I've observed.

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Atheists are not angry at God. They do not believe in God. They are angry at the constant forcing of religion down their necks.

No one is forcing religion down anyone's neck.  This is a Christian country, just like it is an English speaking country.  Is it fair to say we are forcing English down your neck?  For the atheists to start insisting we do this and that relative to constricting our Christianity is the same as them doing the same thing with respect to the English language, as far as I'm concerned.  And, no I don't want to get into a bogus 'separation  of church and state' argument.  No where does it say that in the Constitution.

This is the way I see it.  If you don't believe in God, fine.  I don't believe in santa claus.  But I don't go around needling little children, making fun of them, making insulting remarks about santa claus to them, insisting that they do not believe in santa claus, insisting that santa claus is a made up hoax meant to hurt them, making crude jokes about santa claus.

I might even resent santa claus because it is pagan, or because it requires that I have to put myself out once a year pretending to be santa claus---but still I wouldn't do those things.

Why not?  Because I'm basically neutral on santa claus.  I don't hate santa claus so much that I feel I have to attack every kid who believes in him, or attack the idea of santa claus himself.

So, there's something going on here, yes, there is an anger, and it's not at imaginary figure called God, it is at God himself.  That's how I see it.

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Their agenda is simple; to be left alone to believe or not to believe.
  Well, if you really wanted to be left alone, it would be pretty easy.  Nobody is forcing you to believe anything you don't want to believe.  Just like I'm not forced to believe anything I don't want to believe.  You and I are the same in that respect.  I have to put up with pornography, you have to put up with God, but both of us can lead lives which are not greatly impacted by things that are terrifically distasteful to us.  That's because we still live in a free society, of sorts.  And, that's because the Christians are running things.  We've all seen what happens when the atheists run things--60 million Russians dead, mostly Christian.  So I'm happy to leave you alone, but I don't want you running my life.

I'm talking to you as though you are an atheist, but it is a strawman argument.  I don't really know what your beliefs are, but these are the arguments I would make to an atheist.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 06:48:00 PM by Molly »

Offline studier

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2007, 08:02:09 PM »
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I watched a number of these utubes from athiests and noticed the hellfire doctrine came up repeatedly. I don't think these people hate God, they hate the idea that God would burn and torment people forever for no other reason than they didn't believe in Him. IMO of course.

I got that feeling too. I am sure a lot of them believe in God, but hate the God that Ray and Kirck teach, their God is irrational.

 :Sparkletooth:  Of course you are sure that a lot of atheists believe in God, just as a lot of gays that I have met were sure that all non gays were really gay, but just refused to admit it

Context. I have met Atheists who claim to be atheists but are actually agnostics, they themselves don't understand what label they gave themselves. For example, my ex-roommate, is strongly against the Christian God, but does not know if a God exists or not and so said, "Any reasonable and intelligent individual will be an agnostic, since none can know if there is a God or Higher Power and none can disprove a God or Higher Power."

Though in this video, these guys said at the end of the video, that they were not against God, only against the God Kirk teaches because his God doesn't make sense.

So don't put words in my mouth.

Offline jfraysse

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2007, 10:21:09 PM »
Very good point, brother SoTW.  Thanks for reminding us all of this fact from the video.  I must agree that Kirk and Ray did nothing to deflect the "Irrational Christian God" argument, so they were, in effect, tacitly admitting that the "god" they honor is a tyrant.  This is the real reason they "got fried" in this debate not so much the picture thing although it was a weak argument as well.

Grace & Peace, John :HeartThrob:
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Offline jfraysse

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #60 on: December 12, 2007, 11:38:21 PM »
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We've all seen what happens when the atheists run things--60 million Russians dead, mostly Christian.  So I'm happy to leave you alone, but I don't want you running my life.

Sister Molly:  The dead Russians were not caused by Atheism per se, but more correctly by Totalitarianism and Fascism. History has proven that Jews, Christians and Muslims are very capable of murdering tens of millions as well!  You don't want Christians with absolute power running your life either! The framers of the Constitution (not Orthodox Christians, btw) were lead to separate Church and State for good reasons!  I thank God for His provision but "the fathers" still missed His Spirit concerning Slavery!

Grace & Peace, John :HeartThrob:

« Last Edit: December 13, 2007, 04:47:40 AM by jfraysse »
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Offline dboutwell

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2007, 03:39:43 AM »
 Shibboleth,

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Jerry says we choose to go to such an ugly place....what a crock. Who chooses to be tortured, burned, scalded and in misery forever. These hellfire folk must be crazy, or they just don't think about the nasty things they believe.

I've about come to the conclusion that they really don't believe it, they just think they do. How many of them would call up a neighbor if there was a tornado headed their way, or, warn the friends and family to stay away from their house if a family member had a stomach virus?

My favorite question, here lately, has become, "how many people have you warned about Hell today?"

Even when I believed it, or thought I did, I was not comfortable warning people about it....why in the world??? It doesn't make sense does it?

just my rambling...

Debbie

Blessings :)

Debbie

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2007, 05:13:58 AM »
That "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God," that it is His gift, means there is no living faith for lies.  People can't superficially tell the difference; but, you touched on what is actually perceivable, a proof that "Eternal Torment" cannot be true:  nobody really believes it!
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2007, 09:48:43 AM »
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author=Molly link=topic=1553.msg15585#msg15585 date=1197476732]
Hi Transponder.  I take it you're an atheist?  I didn't make an unsupported statement.  I have said earlier that I am surrounded by atheists and have been all my life.  So, although I don't really know everything that goes on in their heads, I can make some statements about my experience of them.  And, my experience is that they hate God.  That's why I made that statement.  It's something that I've observed.

You take it right. I heard your statement that you are surrounded by atheists, or so you say - which is odd for what you call a 'christian country'. If there are so many atheists, should it not be , democratically a non-Christian country? No, because Christians insist that their beliefs should have the final say. And I say again, have you asked these atheists about their views rather than make assumptions about them on the basis of your observations which are quite evidently taken from a Christian-prejudiced viewpoint? 

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Atheists are not angry at God. They do not believe in God. They are angry at the constant forcing of religion down their necks.

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No one is forcing religion down anyone's neck.  This is a Christian country, just like it is an English speaking country.  Is it fair to say we are forcing English down your neck?  For the atheists to start insisting we do this and that relative to constricting our Christianity is the same as them doing the same thing with respect to the English language, as far as I'm concerned.  And, no I don't want to get into a bogus 'separation  of church and state' argument.  No where does it say that in the Constitution.

The difference between English and Christianity is that, without a common language, we cannot communicate. Without religion, we can communicate better, without one group considering that their religious beliefs give them some sort of authority ove the others; or should.

Authority to say how people should live their lives. Now, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt; you probably don't bother non-believers too much. It is people of the Ray Comfort brand that are the danger. The fact is that a lot of people are becoming very doubtful about religion and its teachings and quite rightly so. This is not seen as a growing out of belief in Santa Claus; it is seen as a terrible thing that will undermine all society (1) and strenuous efforts are being made to introduce religion into all areas of public life, where it does not belong, according to the Constitution, despite what you say. Court rulings are, again and again, that attempts to Christianize school, work and government are unconstitutional. And still they keep at it. And you are in denial about it.


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This is the way I see it.  If you don't believe in God, fine.  I don't believe in santa claus.  But I don't go around needling little children, making fun of them, making insulting remarks about santa claus to them, insisting that they do not believe in santa claus, insisting that santa claus is a made up hoax meant to hurt them, making crude jokes about santa claus.

If only that were true, but too many do not say 'If you don't believe in God, fine.' They say 'these people really believe in God, deep down inside; they are just afraid to admit it; that is why they argue against God so much'. or 'There must have been something to make them angry with God - they just need to be talked to a bit to make them come back to belief'. Getting them in a vulnerable position would do; being in the hands of the court, for instance, with a theist judge directing that they take a course of religious indoctrination or go to jail. Being passed over for a job because they did not profess theism at their interview. Being obliged to join in group prayers organized by an over-dedicated theist teacher, scoutmaster or boss.

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I might even resent santa claus because it is pagan, or because it requires that I have to put myself out once a year pretending to be santa claus---but still I wouldn't do those things.

Why not?  Because I'm basically neutral on santa claus.  I don't hate santa claus so much that I feel I have to attack every kid who believes in him, or attack the idea of santa claus himself.

So, there's something going on here, yes, there is an anger, and it's not at imaginary figure called God, it is at God himself.  That's how I see it.

And to take you analogy about Santa, how would you feel if a well-organized body insisted that your semi-doubtful acceptance of Santa as a five -year -old was not enough? You had to believe it, sincerely, as an adult. You had to organize your life, morals and behaviour on what Santa would want. Depending of course, on the particular views of the Santaists (2) that happen to have influence in your area. You were expected to attend weekly meetings to say how great Santa was, and you find your kids coming home from Santa indoctrination class to tell you that Santa does not want you to smoke. And if you protest that Santa is just a kid's tale, there are dark mutterings about 'Anti-santaists; why are you angry at Santa?' Are you getting the scene? Can you see what it is that gets atheists riled? Quite apart from Ray Comfort appearing publicly with scientific proof of the airworthiness of reindeer-drawn sleighs(3).

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Their agenda is simple; to be left alone to believe or not to believe.
 

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Well, if you really wanted to be left alone, it would be pretty easy.  Nobody is forcing you to believe anything you don't want to believe.  Just like I'm not forced to believe anything I don't want to believe.  You and I are the same in that respect.  I have to put up with pornography, you have to put up with God, but both of us can lead lives which are not greatly impacted by things that are terrifically distasteful to us.  That's because we still live in a free society, of sorts.  And, that's because the Christians are running things.  We've all seen what happens when the atheists run things--60 million Russians dead, mostly Christian.  So I'm happy to leave you alone, but I don't want you running my life.

We all have to put up with things that we don't like, much. The world is full of people that can't tell the difference between being free to live as they want and wanting others to live the same way. I have to put up with rock music being rammed in my ears everywhere. You get what you call pornography pushed in your face. I presume you mean sex scenes in films. If you mean Real pornography, you ought to be more careful where you browse.

I love the stock argument that Stalin's misdeeds were due to atheism. They were due to one man's ruthlessness and the need to keep political power. The 'creed' of communism was the one that happened to be current in Russia at the time.  You think 'That's because we still live in a free society, of sorts.  And, that's because the Christians are running things.'? A free society has come about through many forces, but religion is not one of them, though of course, it likes to claim the credit.  If anythng, democratic freedom has been achieved (such as it it is) through those that challenged authority. Refused to accept religious control by either pope, Catholic king, english monarch or Theocracy, whether Muslim or Baptist. 

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I'm talking to you as though you are an atheist, but it is a strawman argument.  I don't really know what your beliefs are, but these are the arguments I would make to an atheist.

It isn't a strawman, actually. Since you don't know what my beliefs are, you cannot misrepresent them. However, having heard my explanation of what atheists do - or do not - believe, to continue the 'angry at God' idea - that would be a strawman argument.

(1) you say as much here: "That's because we still live in a free society, of sorts.  And, that's because the Christians are running things.  We've all seen what happens when the atheists run things--60 million Russians dead, mostly Christian." You prove my point, all on the basis of a strawman argument that atheists are going to behave like Stalin, if they ever succeed in finally easing myth and superstition out of public life.

(2) that almost came out wrong.  :laughing7:

(3) well of course the one you built doesn't fly. You don't have enough Faith in Santa.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2007, 10:03:03 AM by Transponder »

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2007, 09:50:12 AM »
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We've all seen what happens when the atheists run things--60 million Russians dead, mostly Christian.  So I'm happy to leave you alone, but I don't want you running my life.

Sister Molly:  The dead Russians were not caused by Atheism per se, but more correctly by Totalitarianism and Fascism. History has proven that Jews, Christians and Muslims are very capable of murdering tens of millions as well!  You don't want Christians with absolute power running your life either! The framers of the Constitution (not Orthodox Christians, btw) were lead to separate Church and State for good reasons!  I thank God for His provision but "the fathers" still missed His Spirit concerning Slavery!

Grace & Peace, John :HeartThrob:

Thank you. You restore my faith in the capacity of man for rational thought. 

Transponder

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #65 on: December 13, 2007, 09:57:22 AM »
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I watched a number of these utubes from athiests and noticed the hellfire doctrine came up repeatedly. I don't think these people hate God, they hate the idea that God would burn and torment people forever for no other reason than they didn't believe in Him. IMO of course.

I got that feeling too. I am sure a lot of them believe in God, but hate the God that Ray and Kirck teach, their God is irrational.

 :Sparkletooth:  Of course you are sure that a lot of atheists believe in God, just as a lot of gays that I have met were sure that all non gays were really gay, but just refused to admit it

Context. I have met Atheists who claim to be atheists but are actually agnostics, they themselves don't understand what label they gave themselves. For example, my ex-roommate, is strongly against the Christian God, but does not know if a God exists or not and so said, "Any reasonable and intelligent individual will be an agnostic, since none can know if there is a God or Higher Power and none can disprove a God or Higher Power."

Though in this video, these guys said at the end of the video, that they were not against God, only against the God Kirk teaches because his God doesn't make sense.

So don't put words in my mouth.

Sorry, I have to. There is a difference between not being angry at God and believing in God, deep down inside. You need to understand this.
"I watched a number of these utubes from athiests and noticed the hellfire doctrine came up repeatedly... I am sure a lot of them believe in God, but hate the God that Ray and Kirck teach, their God is irrational."

Atheists do not believe in any god, per se if they do, they are theist. Of course, I agree with you that they may 'hate' (I might say strongly reject - "hate " is such an emotive word) some of the beliefs of Christians of various stripe.

Transponder

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2007, 11:24:13 PM »
SoTw
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Context. I have met Atheists who claim to be atheists but are actually agnostics, they themselves don't understand what label they gave themselves. For example, my ex-roommate, is strongly against the Christian God, but does not know if a God exists or not and so said, "Any reasonable and intelligent individual will be an agnostic, since none can know if there is a God or Higher Power and none can disprove a God or Higher Power."

Comment on this. the basis of atheism is agnosticism. What the position is, is that there is no good reason to believe in any god and specifically not the God of the Bible, and there is every reason to disbelieve it. That is the position of the atheist. I venture to say, even the 'strong' atheist who says the he 'knows' there is no god. Logically such a thing cannot be known absolutely, but the strong atheist is as sure as anyone can be of anything in this world.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2007, 11:34:43 PM by Transponder »

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2007, 07:02:40 AM »
There is something rather than nothing at all.  You could not manifest the nose on your face if you had to.  What is extruding you into reality, a reality of such superfluity and excess?  And all the order, all the life, from quantum and nuclear to microscopic and on to galactic clusters!  Only nothing comes out of nothing.  Consider that you can think about what I am saying.  Don't flatter yourself that you're reasonable.  You're only inexperienced. 

What if, as some of us claim, you could know intimacies with the Source, Guide and Goal of everything everywhere?
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #68 on: December 16, 2007, 07:16:16 AM »
There is something rather than nothing at all.  You could not manifest the nose on your face if you had to.  What is extruding you into reality, a reality of such superfluity and excess?  And all the order, all the life, from quantum and nuclear to microscopic and on to galactic clusters!  Only nothing comes out of nothing.  Consider that you can think about what I am saying.  Don't flatter yourself that you're reasonable.  You're only inexperienced. 

What if, as some of us claim, you could know intimacies with the Source, Guide and Goal of everything everywhere?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Please express clearly the point you are making, if you are making any point at all.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #69 on: December 16, 2007, 07:23:40 AM »
It seems perfectly clear to me.  It's in relatively simple English.  You can read.  Read it 'til you understand it...if you care to.  Please.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

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Re: Kirk Cameran just roasted because he cannot defend his belief...
« Reply #70 on: December 16, 2007, 07:48:57 AM »
Well, I have read it more times than it deserves and I don't feel inclined to try wrest any sense from what seems to be obscurity masquerading as Deep Wisdom. If you want to pretend that you have scored some point you may do so.