Author Topic: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions  (Read 17658 times)

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Offline jedi1989

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #200 on: May 17, 2013, 07:10:46 PM »
I see it as a very complicated Chess match, where God always gets His way.  :2c:
Though I think sometimes He happily lets me "win" when I pray, not that He didn't know I was going to pray in the first place anyway.  :Pray:
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 07:14:11 PM by jedi1989 »
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you - John 15:15

In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,-1 John 5:3

Offline eaglesway

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #201 on: May 18, 2013, 08:25:27 PM »
And every piece winds up back on the board when the game is over :o)

With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
 
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

TomH

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #202 on: May 24, 2013, 05:29:58 PM »
     There is going to be an experiment. Tentmaker Forums is going to allow a discussion of subject matter regarding the sovereign will of God and man's will in relationship to God. This is a subject of great interest, substantial complexity and sometimes unfortunately,  heated passions.

     The terminology surrounding this discussion is made difficult as our understandings of certain words and the way they fit into our diverse theology often differ.

     The idea that such a subject should be discouraged is unfortunate, but because the controversy and the kind of strife it can generate is so serious and often grievous- it has for a time been strongly discouraged and quickly redirected.

The moderation of the experiment will be focused at maintaining an attitude of polite discussion between brothers and sisters sharing their perspectives respectfully. Scripture ought to salt these discussion as participants "speak the truth in love", as they see it.



     I personally believe God is absolutely sovereign. He can and does whatever He wants to whenever He wants to- He is like the wind and He is like the rock. He has set in motion a purpose, "His kind intention"(rock)(Eph 1:10,11). He has left within a certain amount of "inscrutable mystery"(wind) so that we may never say that we have been His counselor(Romans 11:33-36).

     I also believe that within God's plan as he teaches us to be like Him- like the wind and the rock- He leaves us also a certain stewardship- a limited sovereignity freely exercised as we learn to be conformed to His image. Eventually, in my view, the will of man(all) merges with the will of God in a mutually given love that is like a cataract falling over a mountainside or a wind blowing through the leaves of a willow tree. IMO This happens sooner for some, later for others. The balance between the foreknowledge of God, the predestination of individuals, calling and election versus concepts like repentance, obedience, sanctification are like two sides of one coin to me.

      I do not believe my view is "correct". It is only the small window of one persons experience in seeking the Lord and studying His word. Actually, I do not believe a "correct view" exists on this side of the veil- and that is why we strive so intensely against one another. We are not comfortable with fuzzy edges- we like clarity. We love to "know".


      I suggest we speak as those who see through a glass darkly, even if we think we absolutely possess the whole counsel of God.
Hopefully, some will ask questions and others will bring forth their views without unleashing a firestorm :o). I have friends who do not see things as I do. Let's be like friend's discussing subjects of interest. Let's not judge anyones spirituality by whether they agree with us or make our view the standard of measure. As long as we can discuss these things in an atmosphere of fellowship, and praise God for His grace, we can continue to do so and edify one another. Participants who cannot abide by this rule will get a warning. After the first warning they may be disallowed from participating for a time if they don't get it. Hopefully the experiment will be a great success.

     Enjoy.

I respect you for insisting that the discussion be in the spirit of love. God bless you, brother. I am including a link I just used in a reply to another post about free will. My position is that I no longer believe in free will. I think only God truly has free will. I think the rest of us are compelled to act by unseen spiritual forces, and it is a matter of cause and effect.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil013.html

Offline eaglesway

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #203 on: May 24, 2013, 05:57:02 PM »
I believe God desires fellowship between beings who have all chosen to enjoy the superior life of love, and is winning us and training us to become these beings, "sons". This, imo, is the glorious liberty of the sons of God. I believ He knows the end from the beginning and we are predestined according to the forknowledge of God. However, I also believe no one fully understands this and we should all exercise a broad range of grace when discussing such issues. I am glad u r on Tentmaker Tom and look forward to getting to know you. Peace.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

TomH

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #204 on: May 24, 2013, 06:19:48 PM »
I believe God desires fellowship between beings who have all chosen to enjoy the superior life of love, and is winning us and training us to become these beings, "sons". This, imo, is the glorious liberty of the sons of God. I believ He knows the end from the beginning and we are predestined according to the forknowledge of God. However, I also believe no one fully understands this and we should all exercise a broad range of grace when discussing such issues. I am glad u r on Tentmaker Tom and look forward to getting to know you. Peace.

Thanks, bro. I agree we are all in a maturing process and don't have all the answers. I hope I never offend anybody, and, if I do, I'd like to know so I can make things right.

Offline shawn

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #205 on: May 25, 2013, 04:15:26 AM »
I believe God desires fellowship between beings who have all chosen to enjoy the superior life of love, and is winning us and training us to become these beings, "sons". This, imo, is the glorious liberty of the sons of God. I believ He knows the end from the beginning and we are predestined according to the forknowledge of God. However, I also believe no one fully understands this and we should all exercise a broad range of grace when discussing such issues. I am glad u r on Tentmaker Tom and look forward to getting to know you. Peace.

Amen.  As we all see through the glass darkly, this should instill a humility when we speak.  I doubt any see these things fully and we should discuss with this in mind.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #206 on: June 10, 2013, 11:36:46 PM »
Amen Shawn, I am convinced-which doesnt make me right of course :o)....but nevertheless I am convinced.....

Once the beauty of our union with Him exceeds our attachment to our intellectual merit badges; once our union in Him rises to its properly exalted priority in the hierarchies of our doctrinal understandings- His grace will lift us up together into that place where we speak the hidden wisdom among the mature. That hidden wisdom will not be(IMO) esoteric understandings of time and predestination and eschatology. It will be the secret of walking in the promised rest, dwelling as one soul, no one having a need of which all are not aware; the secret of manifesting the love of God in Christ in a way so clear that the lost can see from afar and "Come", take refuge in the "city set upon a hill, the house of prayer for all people".

The Spirit and the Bride say, "Come, drink freely of the water of life".
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline JBerton

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #207 on: June 11, 2013, 05:03:31 PM »
Amen Shawn, I am convinced-which doesnt make me right of course :o)....but nevertheless I am convinced.....

Once the beauty of our union with Him exceeds our attachment to our intellectual merit badges; once our union in Him rises to its properly exalted priority in the hierarchies of our doctrinal understandings- His grace will lift us up together into that place where we speak the hidden wisdom among the mature. That hidden wisdom will not be(IMO) esoteric understandings of time and predestination and eschatology. It will be the secret of walking in the promised rest, dwelling as one soul, no one having a need of which all are not aware; the secret of manifesting the love of God in Christ in a way so clear that the lost can see from afar and "Come", take refuge in the "city set upon a hill, the house of prayer for all people".

The Spirit and the Bride say, "Come, drink freely of the water of life".

 :thumbsup:
:Book: NEVER STOP SEARCHING! :Chinscratch:

Offline donken

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #208 on: April 28, 2014, 03:42:42 AM »
HI.  Scripture says we need to be set free.  So, do you think we have free will, or are we captive under the only things we know about.  Scripture also says we are in bondage to vanity all the while that we are being made.  Romans 8.   

A baby may think it has free will, but it can not freely do anything much at all.   As for us.  want to fly, try it.  Want to sleep and can't some time, well just will it.

God bless, ken

Offline lastpost

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #209 on: April 28, 2014, 12:19:48 PM »
Philippians 4
2 I implore Euodia and I implore Syntyche to be of the same mind in the Lord.
12 I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Luke 22
42 ...saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."  43 Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him.
"A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one". "Christ is like leaven for the entire mass, and having made that which was damned one with himself, frees the whole from damnation".

Gregory of Nazianzu

Offline josh

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #210 on: April 28, 2014, 04:11:56 PM »
HI.  Scripture says we need to be set free.  So, do you think we have free will, or are we captive under the only things we know about.  Scripture also says we are in bondage to vanity all the while that we are being made.  Romans 8.   

A baby may think it has free will, but it can not freely do anything much at all.   As for us.  want to fly, try it.  Want to sleep and can't some time, well just will it.

God bless, ken

freedom is contingent on not sinning
and sinning is being self centered
seeking for self first
rather than as jesus
how to properly consider the needs of others before one's own
but it can be sometimes as in luke 17:3
what the other needs is rebuke
but to always forgive when they properly repent
oh i thought maybe i was limited by
personal text
i see tho i get 6oo characters here
but what if my character is like infinite :)

Offline sheila

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #211 on: April 28, 2014, 06:20:08 PM »
freedom is contingent on Jesus Christ's sacrifice and the will of God to accept it....and to reconcile all to Himself. freedom is

contingent upon God making a vessel unto honour for Himself[man in His image]  Freedom is a court verdict of God not to count

man's tresspasses against him and to deliver him from his sinful state.

  LOOK!  Matt 13;41   the son of man will send out his angels and  they will weed out of His kingdom

   EVERYTHING THAT CAUSES SIN AND THEM WHICH DO INIQUITY...............

Offline dajomaco

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #212 on: April 29, 2014, 12:06:05 AM »
God can make something out of nothing.
He can also convince me that I chose Jesus.
Even the though God chose me from the foundations of the world.

Glory He chose me.

Offline donken

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Re: God's Will, Man's Will, free will/sov discussions
« Reply #213 on: April 30, 2014, 07:37:53 PM »
When every human baby is born and lives, the adult they will become is "DEAD" in them.  That adult or maturity has to be resurrected IN them as who they are, or that maturity will hot be seen in them because of the immaturity still reigning, physically grown as an adult or not.

The maturity has to be "resurrected" in the baby over time because the maturity that was able to cause the baby to exist at all existed BEFORE the baby did and still exists as the parent.  God is our spiritual parent.

God bless, ken