Author Topic: It is God who works in us..........  (Read 1266 times)

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Offline claypot

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It is God who works in us..........
« on: April 07, 2010, 02:50:38 AM »
For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Phil2.13

Hey Gang, This truth in Scripture has really got my mind whirling. I am seeing it as it indicating that God is working in all living things. This really is a mind blower yet it must be so for all is of God ultimately, right?

For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things Rom11.36

We are His workmanship. Eph 2.10

Once upon a time I viewed these Scriptures as pertaining to 'Christians' only, yet now I am seeing them as talking to those 'in Adam' and/or 'in Christ'.

Am I way off base here? Any comments? The implications are incredible!

Thanks,

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Nathan

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2010, 03:01:46 AM »
For me it's another entry-way into another room of freedom from control.  If we truly believe in it, that it means exactly what it says, then for me, it begs the question, why would we want to get in the way to bring correction to someone who God is already working in?  Would it not be more effective for us to just stay out of the way and let God work in the lives of all regardless as to whether or not they're living according to our personal standards?

Our reflex to the idea of freedom is immediate, but when you start going deeper and begin to see just how far that freedom actually reaches . . .it's a little scary!!  Just how free to I want to be?  I want to fly . . .great.  But what about the other guy?  The guy who doesn't seem to measure up.  Does he get the same freedom?  Or does his freedom only go as far as your comfort zone allows him to go?

When I say "you" I'm also including myself in that as well. 

Offline claypot

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2010, 03:08:09 AM »
For me it's another entry-way into another room of freedom from control.  If we truly believe in it, that it means exactly what it says, then for me, it begs the question, why would we want to get in the way to bring correction to someone who God is already working in?  Would it not be more effective for us to just stay out of the way and let God work in the lives of all regardless as to whether or not they're living according to our personal standards?

Our reflex to the idea of freedom is immediate, but when you start going deeper and begin to see just how far that freedom actually reaches . . .it's a little scary!!  Just how free to I want to be?  I want to fly . . .great.  But what about the other guy?  The guy who doesn't seem to measure up.  Does he get the same freedom?  Or does his freedom only go as far as your comfort zone allows him to go?

When I say "you" I'm also including myself in that as well. 

So good to hear from you again Nathan.

You ask why would we want to get in the way of correcting someone who God was already working in. I say we would correct someone because it is God working in us to do so. This is mind boggling to say the least if carried out to its logical conclusion but it makes sense, to me at least.

We cannot stay out of the way if God so moves in us to do of His will and good pleasure. Could Joseph's brothers have chosen not to do as they did to Joseph? Could the king whose heart God controls do other than Gods will and good pleasure?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline jabcat

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2010, 03:14:08 AM »
I think I'd have to agree cp, at the very least to a certain extent, because I see God as very involved, working things according to the counsel of His will, and ultimately in control.

I guess I'd just suggest the 'especially' part of "Savior of all men, especially of those believing".  Some choke on this, but I don't mean it in any sort of "better than" way - just different, with the rest to be brought in in the fullness of times (we are to be servants).  But there are many scriptures that talk of God working in and using many people and things, yet an intimate relationship with His sons - those He has called out for a purpose in this lifetime.  For lack of a better way to say it (I'll think about is some more) I almost see it as an external working on all/everything, with an internal working through His Spirit with His Sons and Daughters.  That may be too simplistic, I'm just trying to explain how I see it in a limited ability to communicate it.  :sigh:

However, it's probably actually a really big discussion if we want to start breaking it down, i.e., how much, what exactly, to what end, etc.  Good question. :bigGrin:
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 03:17:59 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2010, 03:17:41 AM »
Psalm 37:4
Delight thyself also in the LORD: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
Not that what I desire is what he gives but that my desires are given of Him.

Offline claypot

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2010, 03:22:27 AM »
I think I'd have to agree cp, at the very least to a certain extent, because I see God as very involved, working things according to the counsel of His will, and ultimately in control.

I guess I'd just suggest the 'especially' part of "Savior of all men, especially of those believing".  Some choke on this, but I don't mean it in any sort of "better than" way - just different, with the rest to be brought in in the fullness of times.  But there are many scriptures that talk of God working in and using many people and things, yet an intimate relationship with His sons - those He has called out for a purpose in this lifetime.  For lack of a better way to say it (I'll think about is some more) I almost see it as an external working on all/everything, with an internal working through His Spirit with His Sons and Daughters.

However, it's probably actually a really big discussion if we want to start breaking it down, i.e., how much, what exactly, to what end, etc.  Good question. :bigGrin:

I know Jab, this verse has taken hold of me in a strange way. I'm not sure why but it is revolutionizing my life with God.  It's implications are astounding and Biblical, again, to me anyway.

God works in the 'carnal man' to get His will and good pleasure accomplished and He works in the 'new man' for the same purpose.

Where I choke and I'm sure others do is to think God is working in the 'bad guys' also to do and to will of His good pleasure. But Scripture is so clear that God controls (works in) the vessels of wrath and well as the vessels of mercy. Do you see this?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2010, 03:26:26 AM »

Everyday.

Offline claypot

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2010, 03:26:42 AM »
Psalm 37:4
Delight thyself also in the LORD: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
Not that what I desire is what he gives but that my desires are given of Him.

That is making me leap like a mad man Beloved.

But I may go as far as to say that even when we don't delight in the Lord, He gives us the desires of our heart and He gives them as you explained. I again think of Joseph's brothers. They desired to throw Joseph in the pit. Their desire came from hatred but it came none the less. This hatred came from somewhere and I am contending that its ultimate source was God Himself. They meant it for evil while God meant it for good.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2010, 03:52:05 AM »


Amen CP.
And He worked in Pharaoh and Nebuchadnezzar the same way.

Offline onlytruth

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2010, 03:53:21 AM »
I see it as a time where God is asking us to rest from all our ways and we are beginning to realize how often we had gotten in His way.
The thing I wonder about is the evangelist ...is he still needed?

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2010, 03:54:23 AM »
John 9:
1 And, passing along, He perceived a man, blind from birth.
2 And His disciples ask Him, saying, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents that he should be born blind?"
3 Jesus answered, "Neither this man sinned, nor his parents, but it is that the works of God may be manifested in him.

Offline claypot

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2010, 04:07:58 AM »
I see it as a time where God is asking us to rest from all our ways and we are beginning to realize how often we had gotten in His way.
The thing I wonder about is the evangelist ...is he still needed?

The evangelist is also a person in whom God works to will and to do of His good pleasure. I think God takes a special delight in this kind of working. God loves His Word!

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline claypot

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2010, 04:22:22 AM »
John 9:
1 And, passing along, He perceived a man, blind from birth.
2 And His disciples ask Him, saying, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents that he should be born blind?"
3 Jesus answered, "Neither this man sinned, nor his parents, but it is that the works of God may be manifested in him.

Stop it B. I told you that I have not had time to work this through and what you are coming up with is almost too much.

Again, the implications of this is more than I can handle. We are His workmanship. We are His painting, His building. Each person is a brush stroke. The whole lot of us, a masterpiece when completed in Christ.

What gets me the most is the dark work of God, His strange work. Is28.21

But it must be so. This art of God, when seen in its completeness has dark shades as well as light but as a whole it is good and perfect and thus, all light.

This leads me to conclude that it is God who works in us (all of us) to will and to do of His good pleasure. If the evil wills and doings that abound in man are not part of a perfect picture of God then they would not exist.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline jabcat

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2010, 04:24:09 AM »
Such good thoughts guys.  Yes I see it and believe it.

As far as the evangelist, a couple of things to consider;

Romans 10 - (paraphrasing) Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved...how can they believe in whom they have not heard?  How can they hear unless someone declares/preaches...how beautiful are the feet of those that bring [the Good News]!

and we're pretty familiar with I Timothy 4:10 (Savior of all, especially believers)  but verse 11 says "you must be continually charging and teaching these things".    :reachout:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Nathan

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2010, 05:35:26 PM »
I see a couple schools of thought here on the evangelist thing.  I am one who is very much into dimensional understanding.  We've commented in the past that all are at different levels, or stages of relationship with Christ.  For me, there are three major categories.  It stems from the tabernacle.  There were three veils, there are three compartments to the tabernacle in the outer court, inner court and holy of holies.

Outer court is illuminated by "natural" light.  For me, it's the infancy stage of the Christian walk.  The altar of sacrifice and the laver are the only two articles stationed in the outer court.  They represent initial salvation and baptisms.  It's the elementary, or introductory level of relationship to the Father through Christ.

Next step is in the inner court, also called the holy place.  It is here where the priests maintain the fire, bread and constant burning of incense.  It's all about ministry.  It's the priests responsibility to keep the bread fresh, the wine full, the wicks trimmed and the fires burning.  They had to gather specific ingredients for the incense.  They had to grind it, measure it and use it only for this specific ministry.  But the emphasis all through this is on ministry.  For me, this is where the evangelists come into play.

It's where all of our church activities come into play.  Our programs, our conventions, our counseling, youth groups, sunday schools, choirs, witnessing, educating, teaching, preaching . .  . every church related ministry originates from this realm, from this level of relationship with the Father. 

But there's a whole other realm of God we're actually called to that few people ever truly experience.  And that's the holy of holies.  When we're "in" God's presence, there is absolute rest.  There is no more emphasis on ministry in this arena.  This is where some of you are being overwhelmed by personal revelation that is replacing what you "thought" you knew and understood about God.  Truth always overwhelms knowledge because it can't be learned or taught.  It can only be revealed by God and received by us.  And it all takes place in the holy of holies of God.

However, having said that, there is still a need for all the 2nd dimensional ministries listed above, including evangelists.  I would never tell someone to stop exercising the anointing God has given them.  There are still people out there who still need elementary teaching, who still depend on ministry activity and it's all still necessary.

But my personal concern is with the churches that build boundaries in the 2nd dimension and call it the 3rd.  They call it the holy of holies, but all the while, they continue in their emphasis of ministry activity.  It's not that it should stop, but it's the emphasis and motivation of it that should mature into something deeper than what it is.

Okay, that's the first school of thought . .the other is a bit shorter.  And it would still be "yes, we still need evangelists" in the sense that "we" are the evangelists.  But we're not the traditional evangelists that are to go out and pound the streets and claim the world is going to hell unless they turn to Christ.  Our message is literally good news.  It's to pronounce resurrection, it's to raise the awareness in others that salvation is unconditional. 

Whether they choose Christ now or not, the power of the cross has gone beyond the reaches of the mind of men's consciousness and we've been wholly and fully redeemed to the Father.  The day of the Sabbath has come and grace is manifesting to us all.  When you tell a person that the price is already paid and nothing is required of them, no admission of guilt, sin, or death is necessary.  That their final destination is not a place of destruction or eternal torment and this is not a hoax.

When they begin to see the light in that, it will soften their hearts to where accepting Christ will be a natural response rather than a forced one out of intimidation and fear.

Either way, evangelists are still needed.

Offline Nathan

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2010, 05:44:25 PM »
I also wanted to clarify a bit on the correction thing.  I don't want you to think we're not to be father's of one another.  I do think there is a place and time for correction.  But for me, there needs to be some criteria met first.  One is a relationship.  Not just an acquaintance or a semi-friendship.  But there needs to be a form of apostleship taking place where one is anointed to father and one is submitted as a child. 

My concern is everyone "assumes" they have the "right" to correct another when there's no established relationship to support the correction and it becomes more about control and personal satisfaction rather than true, spiritual discipleship.  I'm not here to conform you to my standard of what I think a Christian should be. 

If you come to me and ask questions, looking for direction . . .you're basically giving me permission to share what I'm seeing, which at that point, I can then redirect, bring some correction . . . that sort of thing.  But as I mentioned, it's not an "assumed" position as is often implied.


Offline CHB

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2010, 01:06:49 AM »

Hi Guys,

Very good claypot. I agree that God is working in and through all things to bring about his plan that he has prepared from the beginning.
To me, this exalts God instead of man which is most often the case.

This is a subject that is closest to my heart, oh how I wish everyone could see this.

CHB

Offline claypot

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2010, 04:06:32 AM »

Hi Guys,

Very good claypot. I agree that God is working in and through all things to bring about his plan that he has prepared from the beginning.
To me, this exalts God instead of man which is most often the case.

This is a subject that is closest to my heart, oh how I wish everyone could see this.

CHB

I know CHB. I don't know why this is overwhelming me so much. I've read this verse many times but it is so perfect now. It sums up what and who God is although still in a shadowy way.

God is willing and doing all and much of what He is willing and doing is via us, people. It's like we are His vehicle as He is driving through this dimension we call life. It is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. God is driving the car and it is going exactly where He wants it to go.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: It is God who works in us..........
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2010, 04:37:44 AM »
Zechariah 4:6;            ... 'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty.

2 Chronicles 32:7;       ... for the one with us is greater than the one with him.

2 Chronicles 32:8;       ... with us is the LORD our God to help us and to fight our battles."

Ezra 5:2;                    ... the prophets of God were with them supporting them.

1 John 4:4;                 ... for greater is He Who is in you than he who is in the world.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 05:10:13 AM by Beloved Servant »