Author Topic: Is God God? (Read 4852 times)

eaglesway · « **Reply #75 on:** August 14, 2011, 04:53:08 AM »

Quote from: sheila on August 13, 2011, 07:36:37 PM

Ephesians 3;14 For this reason I kneel before the Father,from whom His whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. In pray,that

out of His glorious riches He may strengthen you with Power through His spirit in your inner being,so that Christ may dwell in your hearts

through faith.And I pray that you being rooted and established in love,may have power,togather with all the saints,to grasp

how wide,how long and high and deep is the love of Christ,and to know this love that surpasses knowledge- that you may be filled to the measure

of all the fullness of God

Glory!

eaglesway · « **Reply #76 on:** August 14, 2011, 04:59:38 AM »

Quote from: micah7:9 on August 11, 2011, 09:47:58 AM

Eaglesway, I find your report a good study. I too am still seeing through a glass darkly; still the Lord has moved in me to get away from the teachings of orthodox religion(especially christian) and seek the Holy Spirit for my teacher, and I find that all that I have been taught as a negative. The Lord has me to study under many inspired and learned men and woman who came out of the Latter Rain and Kingdom teaching. I will not name them, I am sure you know them as well. I thank you again for your report.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

Grace..... and peace to us all as we seek his face together. :o)

redhotmagma · « **Reply #77 on:** August 14, 2011, 05:08:30 AM »

All things were created 1 by him, and apart from him not one thing was created 2 that has been created. 3

If Jesus was created then this statement is false or misunderstood (by me).

Here we have an exception in a definite statement:

For he has put everything in subjection under his feet. 16 But when it says "everything" has been put in subjection, it is clear that this does not include the one who put everything in subjection to him. 15:28 And when all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will be subjected to the one who subjected everything to him, so that God may be all in all.

We don't see any exceptions when describing Christ creating all things. Am I missing something? Who's got some windex?

eaglesway · « **Reply #78 on:** August 14, 2011, 05:24:38 AM »

Much windex is needed LOL Come Holy Spirit.

I think, by the reasoning you just presented a person would be safe to say that Jesus was not created. Yet the idea that he came out from God could mean He was birthed. Father to Son indicates that to me. However, I also have no problem with the theory that Jesus is co-eternal with the Father( I just don't believe He is co-equal, as rhm's verse from 1 cor 15 confirms).

Adam was not born. He was created, or as Micah prefers, "formed"- and as you have shown....he was formed by the Word and the word was God and was in God in the beginning.

But as the Word says, "The Father in me does the works" and " I can of mine own self do nothing".

yeesh! Words can be circles forming caves into traps and graves -or paths to follow towards the dawn. I don't want to dig any new "holes". I just want to follow the Word ;o)

Also we have Jesus a priest in the order of Melchizedek, having neither beginning nor ending of days, another verse that might indicate Jesus as being co-eternal with the Father. What is really mind bending to me is that if that were the case, then there would be entire orders of beings that were not created at all, but are somehow co-eternal with the Father- and I find that unlikely, because as RHM showed in the previous post, nothng has come into being that did not come into being through Him so- what does having neither beginning or ending of days mean?

redhotmagma · « **Reply #79 on:** August 14, 2011, 05:33:40 AM »

Is there a verse that says He came out of the Father? Or came from the Father (where He is)?

micah7:9 · « **Reply #80 on:** August 14, 2011, 05:36:33 AM »

Quote from: redhotmagma on August 14, 2011, 05:08:30 AM

All things were created 1 by him, and apart from him not one thing was created 2 that has been created. 3

If Jesus was created then this statement is false or misunderstood (by me).

Here we have an exception in a definite statement:

For he has put everything in subjection under his feet. 16 But when it says "everything" has been put in subjection, it is clear that this does not include the one who put everything in subjection to him. 15:28 And when all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will be subjected to the one who subjected everything to him, so that God may be all in all.

We don't see any exceptions when describing Christ creating all things. Am I missing something? Who's got some windex?

Where do we find that Jesus was created? Jesus IS the creation! Jesus is out from/of the Father and he is God for as I belvieve that Jesus' first words were LET THERE BE LIGHT!

Ok I see where you got it, I must have missed that.

redhotmagma · « **Reply #81 on:** August 14, 2011, 05:42:23 AM »

Quote from: CHB on August 13, 2011, 06:38:30 PM

Here is how I understand this subject.

The word "God" is a family name, as (Eph. 3:14-15) says. Jesus told the Jews (John 10:34) is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods? Paul said there are many gods and many lords.

There is only ONE God the Father, who is above all, and ONE Lord Jesus Christ. Two separate individuals who was probably one individual before the separation. Jesus said "I came out of the Father, or from the Father. Jesus was a creation out or from God the Father. Jesus was the firstborn and first creation of the Father.

Back to the name "God". If God is a family name then we will all be called gods as Jesus said of the Jews because God is our Father. Say if your last name is Smith then all of your children go by the name Smith. The Father is always considered head of the family. The Father has the authority rank at the top. This is why Jesus never took credit for anything that he did, he always gave his Father the honor and glory for everything. Because God is Jesus' Father that makes us Jesus brothers and sisters.

We are all the family of God and that is why we have the name of God the Father. As it says in (1Cor. 11:3) that Jesus Christ is the head of every man, and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. This shows that God the Father is above all, even Christ.

Since Jesus Christ was our creator and no one has seen or heard the Father except Jesus I think it is Jesus who communicated with Israel and was the most talked about in the OT.

I do not see the Holy Spirit as being a person, I believe it is the Spirit or power of God the Father.

Just the way I view this subject.

CHB

eaglesway · « **Reply #82 on:** August 14, 2011, 05:48:28 AM »

Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

micah7:9 · « **Reply #83 on:** August 14, 2011, 05:49:47 AM »

Quote from: redhotmagma on August 14, 2011, 05:33:40 AM

Is there a verse that says He came out of the Father? Or came from the Father (where He is)?

Think there is Ill see. But Jesus had to come out of or from the Father, the Holy Spirit brought Him forth.

Thanks eaglesway!

redhotmagma · « **Reply #84 on:** August 14, 2011, 05:55:47 AM »

The word exerchomai could probably go either way, meaning to come from the place of, or to come out of.

eaglesway · « **Reply #85 on:** August 14, 2011, 06:46:01 AM »

I like in Revelation

Rev 21:23 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

Jesus was sent. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. The Lamb is the Lamp. God is the light shining from within the Lamp.

Jesus is the chief cornerstone unto which we all as living stones are being fitly joined for the purpose of building a habitation of God in the Spirit... the mortar is brothrly love.

Jesus is the firstborn of many brethren. All of these brethren are destined to complete the reconciliation of all things- born not of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. Chosen, elect, foreknown, predestined to take captive every thought that exalts itself against the true knowledge of God. Equipped with spiritual weapons, strengthened with might in out inner man, weapons of righteousness for the right hand and the left, mighty throu God for the pulling down of every tower and every stronghold that exalts itself against the true knowledge of God. Warring not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers of darkness the rulers of the hosts of wickedness in the heavenly realms.

In the end God will be ALL in ALL and we will KNOW as we are KNOWN. wow its all just so glorious. COMING SOON! JESUS- whom the heavens must receive until the times of the restoration of all things spoken of by all the prophets from the foundation of the world!

Beloved Servant · « **Reply #86 on:** August 14, 2011, 06:49:25 AM »

uplifting post, thanks.

Ross · « **Reply #87 on:** August 14, 2011, 06:49:56 AM »

Amen!!
Glory!!
Hallelujah!!

micah7:9 · « **Reply #88 on:** August 14, 2011, 06:57:23 AM »

Yes! Amen and Glory!

Very good post

WhiteWings · « **Reply #89 on:** August 14, 2011, 07:38:55 AM »

Quote from: redhotmagma on August 14, 2011, 05:08:30 AM

All things were created 1 by him, and apart from him not one thing was created 2 that has been created. 3

If Jesus was created then this statement is false or misunderstood (by me).

The verse is followed by a list of what was created.
Father isn't on that list. Sounds obvious because He's eternal. But it also shows the list is limited.
I'll give an example that shows how I understand that verse.

Red really loves gardening. She marries a rich man that gives her a huge wasteland. --> And husband loved her and gave the whole land in her hand.
Red starts gardening. Creates irrigation. Digs ponds. Plants trees and flowers.
Some friends of the husband drop by and complement him on the garden.
No! no!, the husband answers, All things were planted by Red, and apart from Red not one thing was planted.

See, and Red isn't even eternal.

WhiteWings · « **Reply #90 on:** August 14, 2011, 07:46:48 AM »

Quote from: redhotmagma on August 14, 2011, 05:33:40 AM

Is there a verse that says He came out of the Father? Or came from the Father (where He is)?

Begotten Son perhaps?
^ACVJohn 1
18 No man has ever seen God. The only begotten Son, being in the bosom of the Father, that man reported him.

But I must admit that's a bit problematic when reading the verse below.

^ACVActs 13
33 as also it is written in the second psalm, Thou are my Son, today I have begotten thee.

Today is ~28AD

eaglesway · « **Reply #91 on:** August 14, 2011, 07:45:16 PM »

Quote from: WhiteWings on August 14, 2011, 07:38:55 AM

Quote from: redhotmagma on August 14, 2011, 05:08:30 AM
All things were created 1 by him, and apart from him not one thing was created 2 that has been created. 3

If Jesus was created then this statement is false or misunderstood (by me).
The verse is followed by a list of what was created.
Father isn't on that list. Sounds obvious because He's eternal. But it also shows the list is limited.
I'll give an example that shows how I understand that verse.

Red really loves gardening. She marries a rich man that gives her a huge wasteland. --> And husband loved her and gave the whole land in her hand.
Red starts gardening. Creates irrigation. Digs ponds. Plants trees and flowers.
Some friends of the husband drop by and complement him on the garden.
No! no!, the husband answers, All things were planted by Red, and apart from Red not one thing was planted.

See, and Red isn't even eternal.

Great illustration.
Interesting perspective. I like it.

And aftre Red was done, she gave all of it back to her husband so they could rejoice together over it all in it all and through it all.

redhotmagma · « **Reply #92 on:** August 14, 2011, 08:12:43 PM »

I am a he

eaglesway · « **Reply #93 on:** August 14, 2011, 08:16:31 PM »

In your story Red was a she. I was responding in the storyline :)

eaglesway · « **Reply #94 on:** August 14, 2011, 08:20:08 PM »

Actually it was WW's storyline I was responding to LOL

WhiteWings · « **Reply #95 on:** August 14, 2011, 09:15:21 PM »

Quote from: redhotmagma on August 14, 2011, 08:12:43 PM

I am a he

Must be a gay marriage then because post #89 clearly states you are married with a man

micah7:9 · « **Reply #96 on:** August 14, 2011, 09:35:41 PM »

TO DAY is always this very day, at least thats how I receive it.

Heb 3:7 For this reason--as the Holy Spirit warns us, "TO-DAY, IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, (WNT)

eaglesway · « **Reply #97 on:** August 14, 2011, 09:43:47 PM »

Quote from: micah7:9 on August 14, 2011, 09:35:41 PM

TO DAY is always this very day, at least thats how I receive it.

Heb 3:7 For this reason--as the Holy Spirit warns us, "TO-DAY, IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, (WNT)

Amen

Firstborn of many brethren

Many sons unto glory

Today i have begotten thee

12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, 15 while it is said,
"TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME."

CHB · « **Reply #98 on:** August 15, 2011, 02:10:57 AM »

Quote from: eaglesway on August 14, 2011, 06:46:01 AM

In the end God will be ALL in ALL and we will KNOW as we are KNOWN. wow its all just so glorious. COMING SOON! JESUS- whom the heavens must receive until the times of the restoration of all things spoken of by all the prophets from the foundation of the world!

The restoration of all things. I can't hardly wait.

Eaglesway, that was a very good post.

Someone ask about no beginning or ending of days? I tend to think the beginning of days didn't start till Adam was created. That might explain why Jesus had no beginning of days.

CHB

redhotmagma · « **Reply #99 on:** August 15, 2011, 02:25:33 AM »

Quote from: WhiteWings on August 14, 2011, 07:38:55 AM

Quote from: redhotmagma on August 14, 2011, 05:08:30 AM
All things were created 1 by him, and apart from him not one thing was created 2 that has been created. 3

If Jesus was created then this statement is false or misunderstood (by me).
The verse is followed by a list of what was created.
Father isn't on that list. Sounds obvious because He's eternal. But it also shows the list is limited.
I'll give an example that shows how I understand that verse.

Red really loves gardening. She marries a rich man that gives her a huge wasteland. --> And husband loved her and gave the whole land in her hand.
Red starts gardening. Creates irrigation. Digs ponds. Plants trees and flowers.
Some friends of the husband drop by and complement him on the garden.
No! no!, the husband answers, All things were planted by Red, and apart from Red not one thing was planted.

See, and Red isn't even eternal.

The point I was making is that there is no exception given when describing all things created by Jesus, as in 1 Cor 15 , where all things are subjected except the Father,
same all things-->pas. By exception I mean saying except the son, who was created by the Father, or something to that effect

Col 1:16 for all things in heaven and on earth were created by him – all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, 1 whether principalities or powers – all things were created through him and for him.

Joh 1:3
All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.

Rev 10:6
and swore by the one who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, and the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it,

I realize this isn't conclusive, just makes you wonder why Paul would give the exception in the one case, and not the other. If Jesus is created then He should fall into all things, a thing is created.

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Author Topic: Is God God? (Read 4852 times)