Author Topic: Is God God?  (Read 8625 times)

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Offline micah7:9

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2011, 09:47:58 AM »
Eaglesway, I find your report a good study.  I too am still seeing through a glass darkly; still the Lord has moved in me to get away from the teachings of orthodox religion(especially christian) and seek the Holy Spirit for my teacher, and I find that all that I have been taught as a negative. The Lord has me to study under many inspired and learned men and woman who came out of the Latter Rain and Kingdom teaching. I will not name them, I am sure you know them as well. I thank you again for your report.
Peace and Love Through Jesus :bigGrin:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2011, 01:44:31 PM »
Micah and Eaglesway, I see this through a glass thats covered in oil, and about the size of a dime.  When Christ is called God how does that play into your understanding?  (see my long post on page 2). 

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2011, 03:18:16 PM »
Red I assume you mean this post on page 1:
Quote
back to EZE 2
1Then He said to me (the one in the cloud), "Son of man, stand on your feet that I may speak with you!" 2As He spoke to me the Spirit entered me and set me on my feet; and I heard Him speaking to me. 3Then He said to me, "Son of man, I am sending you to the sons of Israel, to a rebellious people who have rebelled against Me; they and their fathers have transgressed against Me to this very day. 4"I am sending you to them who are stubborn and obstinate children, and you shall say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD.'
Imo only Father is called God in this verse.
The son of man is not Jesus but Ezikel who wrote down the verse. "He=God=Me said to me..................................................." "So said God"
Sure this verse is also a prophesy about Jesus. Jesus is also the Son of Man. So if we assume Jesus is called God in this verse then Ezikel is also God.
So..... :winkgrin:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2011, 03:39:59 PM »
Red I assume you mean this post on page 1:
Quote
back to EZE 2
1Then He said to me (the one in the cloud), "Son of man, stand on your feet that I may speak with you!" 2As He spoke to me the Spirit entered me and set me on my feet; and I heard Him speaking to me. 3Then He said to me, "Son of man, I am sending you to the sons of Israel, to a rebellious people who have rebelled against Me; they and their fathers have transgressed against Me to this very day. 4"I am sending you to them who are stubborn and obstinate children, and you shall say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD.'
Imo only Father is called God in this verse.
The son of man is not Jesus but Ezikel who wrote down the verse. "He=God=Me said to me..................................................." "So said God"
Sure this verse is also a prophesy about Jesus. Jesus is also the Son of Man. So if we assume Jesus is called God in this verse then Ezikel is also God.
So..... :winkgrin:
I agree the son of man in this verse is Ezekiel, but there is one in the cloud with a likeness of the son of man

The one in the cloud who they sinned against, the me is shown to be Christ the rock that followed them in the wilderness, the same stone that water comes out of, the one riding on the cherubim.  The same as the glory of the Lord that fills the temple.

The Israelites tempted God

Num 21
4 And they journey from mount Hor, the way of the Red Sea, to compass the land of Edom, and the soul of the people is short in the way, 5 and the people speak against God, and against Moses, 'Why hast thou brought us up out of Egypt to die in a wilderness? for there is no bread, and there is no water, and our soul hath been weary of this light bread.
6 And Jehovah sendeth among the people the burning serpents, and they bite the people, and much people of Israel die;

Israelites tempted Christ
9 neither may we tempt the Christ, as also certain of them did tempt, and by the serpents did perish;

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2011, 04:06:56 PM »
I see this through a glass thats covered in oil, and about the size of a dime. 


I like that, not sure what it means though, but I like it!

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2011, 05:31:14 PM »
very darkly, kind of like those keychains they had at amusement parks with your picture they take of you in front.  The tiny little eyehole.

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2011, 05:35:19 PM »
very darkly, kind of like those keychains they had at amusement parks with your picture they take of you in front.  The tiny little eyehole.
Looking though the eye of  needle.
I may be a comfort to you knowing some wear 2 eyepatches  :winkgrin:
I love dogs  :laughing7:
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 08:26:01 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2011, 06:33:54 PM »


I remember them! lol
A cheap View-Master knockoff in  2-D.


Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #58 on: August 11, 2011, 06:41:07 PM »
very darkly, kind of like those keychains they had at amusement parks with your picture they take of you in front.  The tiny little eyehole.
Looking though the eye of  needle.
I may be a confort to you some wear 2 eyepatches  :winkgrin:
I love dogs  :laughing7:

 :happygrin:

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #59 on: August 11, 2011, 06:43:05 PM »



Looking though the eye of  needle.                                      <— that I understand.

I may be a confort to you some wear 2 eyepatches                <— that I do not.

I love dogs                                                                        < — that one either.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2011, 06:46:02 PM »


A dog with an eye-patch?

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #61 on: August 11, 2011, 08:25:15 PM »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2011, 07:15:39 AM »
Micah and Eaglesway, I see this through a glass thats covered in oil, and about the size of a dime.  When Christ is called God how does that play into your understanding?  (see my long post on page 2).

I really see it the same way(oily window the size of a dime :o). I have studied the matter thoroughly for thirty years and may be no closer to the essence of it than when I started. What I am certainly aware of though, is that none of the primary dogmas work entirely, and believers in good standing may disagree about certain things. Someone believes  "I and the Father are one" defines the trinity. Someone else thinks it defines the heart relationship and union between the Son and the Father, someone else thinks that the Son is the Father in another mode of the expression of the Spirit of God. I have no axe to grind concerning these particular views- I just think they all cut it out of whole cloth as if it was something definable by them, when maybe it isn t even fully revealed. In my opinion, questioning the matter is healthy and it in no way involves blashphemy-regardless of ones doctrine on the matter. Some say Jesus MUST be GOD ALMIGHTY to sve the world. I say.....WHY? Is He not the LAMB SLAIN whether He is co-equal to the Father or not? Isnt His blood sufficient as the Son of a virgin with child by the Holy Ghost?
I say ....yes! This does not mean I don't believe Jesus is God. It means I think we don't fully understand what that means and it may not fit into our orthodox boxes. It is also written that Jesus is the fulness of the deity IN BODILY FORM....For so it pleased the Father to MAKE ALL THE FULNESS DWELL IN HIM. I don't think we get that. It is rarely injected into the discussion by Trinitarians or Modalists. I think all that is necessary to see the kingdom is to believe that Jesus is the Word, only Begotten of the Father, Lived in perfect obedience, died in perfect love, was resurrected in supreme power, and lives to forgive sins.

A Modalist(iam not a modalist) sees I John like this. In the beginning was the ice cube, and the ice cube was water, and the ice cube was in the water in the beginning.  They see Jesus as a coalesced form of the invisible indefinable almighty omniscient God who is spirit. I have no problem with that view, until they take it to extreme. Tertullian was the father of the trinity doctrine, hundreds of years after the apostles died. He saw Jesus as co substantial and co-eternal but not co-equal.  Now, among trinitarians, if you do not believe Jesus is co-equal to the Father you do not believe He is God and you are a heretic. I say, HOGWASH!

If Jesus wanted us to have a systematic theology that defined every aspect of the mystery- He would have come with one. He never made it so clear as we would like it. We may all get a huge shock when we "see Him as He is" and "know as we are known"
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 05:06:43 AM by eaglesway »
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Offline jabcat

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2011, 07:27:28 AM »
If Jesus wanted us to have a systematic theology that defined every aspect of the mystery- He would have come with one. He never made it so clear as we would like it. We may all get a huge shock when we "see Him as He is" and "know as we are known"

That's what I think.  I'm one that does like to understand things.  But I'm also one that believes it's very much OK to say "I don't fully know or understand, and I don't think we always have to.  Just go back to what the scriptures say about Him.  Believe exactly what you understand them to say, in the best way you know how.  He will show us the rest when it suits His purposes".   

I'll take it a step further.  I can also be distrustful of someone (their views) who comes across as fully understanding it all.  Paul didn't say we see through a glass darkly without good reason.   :2c:
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2011, 02:51:26 PM »
I've taken the same stance, it doesn't really matter for us to know it exactly.  Just trying to gain a better understanding. 


God is outside of time, He is likely at least 11 dimensional (not that we can really describe this).   Have you seen the movie Contact with Jodie Foster?  In it they receive a message from the stars that tells them how to build a ship to go visit somewhere (it turns out to be "God").  Anyway they can't figure out what the message sent means until they stop thinking 2d and start thinking 3d.  When they put the plan together in the form of a cube a picture shows up, the plans come to light.

We try to reconcille different concepts, verses, using our puny 4d minds (time is the 4th), when we can't even picture a 4d (4 physical dimensions) object (called a hypercube) and we try and picture God, and relate it to what we see here and now, but our brains can't even comprehend it.

The lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.  Jesus was slain 2000 years ago.  (I know that there are many ideas of what the foundation is, or what world are we talking about).  both are correct, once you are outside of time, like God.

The same goes for will we go immediately to heaven when we die or have "soul sleep".  One we would have no idea the difference (in our linear 3d minds), although I don't like the idea of being dead for x years.  but two it doesn't matter, because once we are released from this temporal dwelling, we will also be outside of time, in fact we are now.  We are seated at the right hand in Christ now.  We aren't there physically, but we are there.  The "we" just can't comprehend it because we are confined to these bodies and these 4 dimensions.

its kind of like this:  I'm watching a movie at home.  In this scenario, I'm outside of the dimensions and time.  The people in the movie are in the 4d's.  The end has already been declared from the beginning, you can fast forward, rewind, pause, go straight to the end and watch the end, its already laid down on the dvd.  The people in the movie have no clue if you fast forward, stop, rewind, those things are outside of their normal dimensions (all that data stored in concentric rings on the dvd, the dvd is their universe). 

This is probably confusing, I know I'm confused and I'm the one that wrote it :bigGrin: 

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2011, 04:38:46 PM »
I've taken the same stance, it doesn't really matter for us to know it exactly.  Just trying to gain a better understanding. 


God is outside of time, He is likely at least 11 dimensional (not that we can really describe this).   Have you seen the movie Contact with Jodie Foster?  In it they receive a message from the stars that tells them how to build a ship to go visit somewhere (it turns out to be "God").  Anyway they can't figure out what the message sent means until they stop thinking 2d and start thinking 3d.  When they put the plan together in the form of a cube a picture shows up, the plans come to light.

We try to reconcille different concepts, verses, using our puny 4d minds (time is the 4th), when we can't even picture a 4d (4 physical dimensions) object (called a hypercube) and we try and picture God, and relate it to what we see here and now, but our brains can't even comprehend it.

The lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.  Jesus was slain 2000 years ago.  (I know that there are many ideas of what the foundation is, or what world are we talking about).  both are correct, once you are outside of time, like God.

The same goes for will we go immediately to heaven when we die or have "soul sleep".  One we would have no idea the difference (in our linear 3d minds), although I don't like the idea of being dead for x years.  but two it doesn't matter, because once we are released from this temporal dwelling, we will also be outside of time, in fact we are now.  We are seated at the right hand in Christ now.  We aren't there physically, but we are there.  The "we" just can't comprehend it because we are confined to these bodies and these 4 dimensions.

its kind of like this:  I'm watching a movie at home.  In this scenario, I'm outside of the dimensions and time.  The people in the movie are in the 4d's.  The end has already been declared from the beginning, you can fast forward, rewind, pause, go straight to the end and watch the end, its already laid down on the dvd.  The people in the movie have no clue if you fast forward, stop, rewind, those things are outside of their normal dimensions (all that data stored in concentric rings on the dvd, the dvd is their universe). 

This is probably confusing, I know I'm confused and I'm the one that wrote it :bigGrin:

This is not confusing at all. It is exactly where I have arrived- or at least what I understand at this present point in time. Especially this statement....

The lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.  Jesus was slain 2000 years ago.  (I know that there are many ideas of what the foundation is, or what world are we talking about).  both are correct, once you are outside of time, like God.

Praise God, who lives in a realm beyond our grasp in this present time and is shrouded in mystery. Thank God for Jesus Christ who is The Bridge over which we are walking into the eternal realm. Come Holy Spirit! teach us all things and reveal to us things hidden from the foundation of the world. Bring us further into The Mystery ;o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Online WhiteWings

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2011, 04:51:56 PM »
I think Eden can also be seen as the foundation of the world...
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2011, 04:57:47 PM »
I think Eden can also be seen as the foundation of the world...
I think so, too...

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2011, 06:18:28 PM »
Hebrews 9:26
Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Acts 3:18-20
 18 But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.


The lamb slain from the foundation of the world was "manifested" at the "consumation of the ages" leading me to believe that when you step outside of time you find that if all of existence is a sphere and within that sphere there is a smaller sphere, called the ages, then, at the center of that sphere there would be a "CENTER OF ALL THINGS" and that center would be the Word, a seed, that fell into the ground and died at the "consummation of the ages"- the "apex of all times and seasons"- the defining moment of every thing that was, is and will be- a manifestation of the heart of God, to sacrifice His beloved Son, the REASON FOR EVERYTHING. Then to raise that seed "declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead"- the "firstborn of many brothers"- in order to reveal perfect love fulfilled and, in a "dispensation suitable to the fulness/completion of times" "gather into one all things in Chist" until God becomes all in all and all is love, in love.

We, as members of that brtherhood, are entrusted with the ministry of reconciliation, for God, who was in Christ, "reconciling the world to Himself" has entrusted unto us the ministry of reconciliation. The whole creation eagerly awaits our reunion with Him, our "awakening", our "manifestation", our "resurrection"- the redemption of our bodies, at which time we will be "declared to be sons with power by the resurrection of the dead", and join our elder brother in earnest in the restoration of all things- to be fulfilled in the ages to come.

CELEBRATE DON"T DEBATE ;o)

Eph 1:8-10
 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.

Are you gathering? or scattering?   Peace.
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Offline shawn

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2011, 06:23:01 PM »
Is the present world with all its chaos, troubles, morality of the mankind, calamities, and sorrows... in the plan of The Creator...or is the world being controlled or lead by  some other force?

I'd suggest satan is a tool to serve YHWH's purposes - that he must either a) ask permission, b) be told what to do, and/or c) allowed to do whatever he does.  All to fulfill God's plan for mankind to have an experience of evil, and return to the Father whole and better for it.   :2c:

Once again...agreed.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2011, 06:26:52 PM »
The word foundation is "archon". It is not so much "the beginning of" all things in terms of time - it is the "reason for all things" in terms of God's plan, purpose etc.n Hence Word, Incorruptible Seed, Christ crucified- the core of all revelation.

The undergirding "archon" of all that was, is and will be is the love of God as revealed to the creation through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. That is "the light" because it overcomes the darkness, brings fruitfulness out of chaos, and reveals the divine nature, so that we can become partakers of it- which is the reason for EVERYTHING we see of God and experience in Him in this life.

If the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness? Religion, dogma, strife and contention- all darkness, chaos, vanity.

13 Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. 16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. 18 And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
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Offline CHB

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #71 on: August 13, 2011, 06:38:30 PM »
Here is how I understand this subject.

The word "God" is a family name, as (Eph. 3:14-15) says. Jesus told the Jews (John 10:34) is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods? Paul said there are many gods and many lords.

There is only ONE God the Father, who is above all, and ONE Lord Jesus Christ. Two separate individuals who was probably one individual before the separation. Jesus said "I came out of the Father, or from the Father. Jesus was a creation out or from God the Father. Jesus was the firstborn and first creation of the Father.

Back to the name "God". If God is a family name then we will all be called gods as Jesus said of the Jews because God is our Father. Say if your last name is Smith then all of your children go by the name Smith. The Father is always considered head of the family. The Father has the authority rank at the top. This is why Jesus never took credit for anything that he did, he always gave his Father the honor and glory for everything.  Because God is Jesus' Father that makes us Jesus brothers and sisters.

We are all the family of God and that is why we have the name of God the Father. As it says in (1Cor. 11:3) that Jesus Christ is the head of every man, and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. This shows that God the Father is above all, even Christ.

Since Jesus Christ was our creator and no one has seen or heard the Father except Jesus I think it is Jesus who communicated with Israel and was the most talked about in the OT.

I do not see the Holy Spirit as being a person, I believe it is the Spirit or power of God the Father.

Just the way I view this subject.   :2c:  :happy3:

CHB

 

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #72 on: August 13, 2011, 07:10:33 PM »
CHB, I think that is a perfectly legitimate perspective on the subject. It explains many apparent contradictions. To the extent I can see through the glass darkly- I agree.
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Offline sheila

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #73 on: August 13, 2011, 07:36:37 PM »
Ephesians 3;14  For this reason I kneel before the Father,from whom His whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. In pray,that

  out of His glorious riches He may strengthen you with Power through His spirit in your inner being,so that Christ may dwell in your hearts

  through faith.And I pray that you being rooted and established in love,may have power,togather with all the saints,to grasp

  how wide,how long and high and deep is the love of Christ,and to know this love that surpasses  knowledge- that you may be filled to the measure

  of all the fullness of God

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #74 on: August 14, 2011, 01:29:45 AM »
Here is how I understand this subject.

The word "God" is a family name, as (Eph. 3:14-15) says. Jesus told the Jews (John 10:34) is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods? Paul said there are many gods and many lords.

There is only ONE God the Father, who is above all, and ONE Lord Jesus Christ. Two separate individuals who was probably one individual before the separation. Jesus said "I came out of the Father, or from the Father. Jesus was a creation out or from God the Father. Jesus was the firstborn and first creation of the Father.

Back to the name "God". If God is a family name then we will all be called gods as Jesus said of the Jews because God is our Father. Say if your last name is Smith then all of your children go by the name Smith. The Father is always considered head of the family. The Father has the authority rank at the top. This is why Jesus never took credit for anything that he did, he always gave his Father the honor and glory for everything.  Because God is Jesus' Father that makes us Jesus brothers and sisters.

We are all the family of God and that is why we have the name of God the Father. As it says in (1Cor. 11:3) that Jesus Christ is the head of every man, and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. This shows that God the Father is above all, even Christ.

Since Jesus Christ was our creator and no one has seen or heard the Father except Jesus I think it is Jesus who communicated with Israel and was the most talked about in the OT.

I do not see the Holy Spirit as being a person, I believe it is the Spirit or power of God the Father.

Just the way I view this subject.   :2c:  :happy3:

CHB

 

I like your reasoning it is a great part of the whole said simply. There is only one thing I would add to this what you said
"I think it is Jesus who communicated with Israel and was the most talked about in the OT."

I believe that it was Jesus who spoke from Gen. 1:3 and continues thru Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
My  :2c: :happy3:

Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.