Author Topic: Is God God?  (Read 8381 times)

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Offline Molly

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2011, 09:54:47 AM »
For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.
--1 Cor 12:13


4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
--Eph 4

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2011, 10:18:22 AM »
Body can also be like "the cloud".
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2011, 11:21:00 AM »
Body can also be like "the cloud".
Interesting.  Spiritual [celestial] bodies.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2011, 11:24:40 AM »
So again, I understand this as "function", not "form".
Yep, it's about teamwork. Same team. Same goals.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2011, 03:09:16 PM »
So again, I understand this as "function", not "form".
Yep, it's about teamwork. Same team. Same goals.
It's more than that--same Spirit, same body.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2011, 07:44:35 PM »

Yes one. But the real question is one of what? 1 person? 1 football team? 1 army? 1 universe? 1 mind?
The word one can only be understood by context. And often can't be used to prove the conext. (would be circular reasoning)


Oh yeah, regarding context.  In my opinion, context makes it clear that it means functioning  as one - in unison, in total agreement.  Here's a contextual verse that I believe supports that.

Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.  Jn 17:11

1)  I don't believe Jesus was praying to Himself, He was praying to His Father, 2) Jesus said in His prayer that His Father gave Him His name, not that He gave it to Himself, and 3) He states He wishes "they" [multiple] believers would be "one", even as He and His Father are "one".     So again, I understand this as "function", not "form".   

Perhaps and more than possible you may be correct in what you say,  yet I see Jesus as the Son and I and the Father are one John 10:30

Joh 5:37  `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; , nor His appearance have ye seen;

Joh 14:9  Jesus saith to him, `So long time am I with you, and thou hast not known me, Philip? he who hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how dost thou say, Shew to us the Father?

Peace H7965 shâlôm  shâlôm  safe from H7999 shâlam  A primitive root; to be safe (in mind, body or estate); figuratively to be (causatively make) completed; by implication to be friendly

Body G4983 sōma the body (as a sound whole), From G4982  sōzō  From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, "safe"); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

John 1:18

(CLV) God no one has ever seen. The only-begotten God, Who is in the bosom of the Father, He unfolds Him."

(WNT)  No human eye has ever seen God: the only Son, who is in the Father's bosom--He has made Him known.

(YLT)  God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father--he did declare.

I realize even with myself it is difficult understand ONE.  "ye have neither heard His voice at any time" so that is Jesus speaking not the Father Yes? For we have neither heard His voice. Jesus is not functioning as the Father .. He is the Father
I and the Father are ONE. I know I know :sigh: didnt do well.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2011, 08:03:03 PM »
ACVMatthew 24
36 But about that day and hour no man knows, not even the agents of the heavens, except my Father only.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2011, 08:40:50 PM »
ACVMatthew 24
36 But about that day and hour no man knows, not even the agents of the heavens, except my Father only.

Who or whom Jesus declares(unfolds.)
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2011, 09:44:39 PM »


UNFOLDS !


You saw that too, Micah!


PRAISE GOD!

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2011, 05:18:49 AM »
Yes I saw that Beloved  :bigGrin:

Deu 6:4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One.

Hear, Israel [he will reign as God(El) The self exsistant[Lord] our God[Elohyim;gods]
(is) one H259 'echâd A numeral from H258; properly united, that is, one; or (as an ordinal) first H258 to unify Lord [The self exsistant I AM I AM]

 1Co 15:28 But when the whole universe has been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has made the universe subject to Him, in order that GOD may be all in all.
This God here I reason to be The diety, The EL, The GOD.

Is this not ONE?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 05:22:45 AM by micah7:9 »
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2011, 05:26:22 AM »


One.

No longer fragmented.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2011, 10:27:39 AM »
He is the radiance of the Father's glory and the express icon of His character

...for so it pleased the Father to make all the fulness dwell in Him

...and of His fulness have we all received with multiplying grace

They were all as one soul and had all things in common and no one among them had any need and the word of the Lord grew and multiplied and the Lord added daily to the church such as were appointed to deliverance.

"I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
(Joh 17:20-23)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2011, 12:55:46 PM »
Can I be shown in the Bible where Jesus Christ was not the voice or the channel, that God or the Father used to speak?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Ross

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2011, 01:31:38 PM »
Christ and the Father are one because they are so in agreement about everything.
When I agree with my dad about stuff we are as one. We are still two individuals but we are at one.
Christ states that He came to do His Father's will.
John 12;49 " Because I speak not out of myself, but the Father Who sent me has Himself given Me commandment what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that His commandment is life age-abiding; therefore the things which I speak just as the the Father has told Me so I speak."
Christ states that into Your hands do I commend my spirit.
The Jews did not like the way Jesus was referring to God as his Father because in their culture He was claiming to be equal with God because He was calling God His Father.
That was why Christ was charged and crucified under the charge of blasphemy.
In Timothy Paul stated that no one had seen the Father. That seems to be linking in with the concept that Adam was actually walking in the garden with Christ.

Jesus was the rock that followed the Jews around [ 1 Cor 10;4].

I realize this is point form, but I hope the truth stands out.
Fellow brother in Christ

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2011, 01:54:25 PM »
Young's Literal Translation
1 And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2 and all to Moses were baptized in the cloud, and in the sea; 3 and all the same spiritual food did eat, 4 and all the same spiritual drink did drink, for they were drinking of a spiritual rock following them, and the rock was the Christ; 5 but in the most of them God was not well pleased, for they were strewn in the wilderness,
6 and those things became types of us, for our not passionately desiring evil things, as also these did desire. 7 Neither become ye idolaters, as certain of them, as it hath been written, 'The people sat down to eat and to drink, and stood up to play;' 8 neither may we commit whoredom, as certain of them did commit whoredom, and there fell in one day twenty-three thousand; 9 neither may we tempt the Christ, as also certain of them did tempt, and by the serpents did perish;

Here we have the cloud, the rock which was the Christ, which gave them spiritual drink
Also note that they tempted the Christ, and they perished by the serpents

Num 21
4 And they journey from mount Hor, the way of the Red Sea, to compass the land of Edom, and the soul of the people is short in the way, 5 and the people speak against God, and against Moses, 'Why hast thou brought us up out of Egypt to die in a wilderness? for there is no bread, and there is no water, and our soul hath been weary of this light bread.
6 And Jehovah sendeth among the people the burning serpents, and they bite the people, and much people of Israel die;

Here they tempted God and perished by serpents, In 1 Cor they tempted Christ and perished by serpents

'Eze 1
4As I looked, behold, a storm wind was coming from the north, a great cloud with fire flashing forth continually and a bright light around it, and in its midst something like glowing metal in the midst of the fire. 5Within it there were figures resembling four living beings. And this was their appearance: they had human form. 6Each of them had four faces and four wings.

a cloud with flashing fire, hmm sounds familiar
also note the cherubim

And above the expanse that is over their head, as an appearance of a sapphire stone, is the likeness of a throne, and on the likeness of the throne a likeness, as the appearance of man upon it from above. 27 And I see as the colour of copper, as the appearance of fire within it round about, from the appearance of his loins and upward, and from the appearance of his loins and downward, I have seen as the appearance of fire, and brightness is to it round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in a cloud in a day of rain, so is the appearance of the brightness round about. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking.

a stone, that is a throne
something like fire, like the appearance of a man, the likeness of the glory of the LORD

Exo 40:34
Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

Deut 31:14
The Lord appeared in the tent in a pillar of cloud that stood above the door of the tent.

back to EZE 2
1Then He said to me (the one in the cloud), "Son of man, stand on your feet that I may speak with you!" 2As He spoke to me the Spirit entered me and set me on my feet; and I heard Him speaking to me. 3Then He said to me, "Son of man, I am sending you to the sons of Israel, to a rebellious people who have rebelled against Me; they and their fathers have transgressed against Me to this very day. 4"I am sending you to them who are stubborn and obstinate children, and you shall say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD.' 5"As for them, whether they listen or not—for they are a rebellious house—they will know that a prophet has been among them. 6"And you, son of man, neither fear them nor fear their words, though thistles and thorns are with you and you sit on scorpions; neither fear their words nor be dismayed at their presence, for they are a rebellious house. 7"But you shall speak My words to them whether they listen or not, for they are rebellious.
8"Now you, son of man, listen to what I am speaking to you; do not be rebellious like that rebellious house. Open your mouth and eat what I am giving you." 9Then I looked, and behold, a hand was extended to me; and lo, a scroll was in it. 10When He spread it out before me, it was written on the front and back, and written on it were lamentations, mourning and woe.

The people rebelled against Him, and Thus says the Lord God


Rev 22:1
Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb

spiritual drink coming from the throne

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; 2 this one was in the beginning with God; 3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men,

For from Him, through Him, and to Him are all things (God here)

The word tabernacled among us, the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle, the likeness of a son of man in the cloud which is the glory of the Lord. That "man" sits on a stone throne, above the cherubim, the arc of the covenant was the throne of God with cherubim underneath where God would "sit". Out of that throne came spirtual water, that Rock is the Christ.


Offline sheila

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2011, 09:26:09 PM »
Numbers 20   Speak to that rock before their eyes,and it will pour out it's water

   Mount of Transfiguration   Mark 9;4  AND THERE APPEARED BEFORE THEM,MOSES AND ELIJAH  WHO WERE TALKING  WITH JESUS

Offline thinktank

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2011, 09:38:45 PM »

Yes one. But the real question is one of what? 1 person? 1 football team? 1 army? 1 universe? 1 mind?
The word one can only be understood by context. And often can't be used to prove the conext. (would be circular reasoning)


Oh yeah, regarding context.  In my opinion, context makes it clear that it means functioning  as one - in unison, in total agreement.  Here's a contextual verse that I believe supports that.

Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.  Jn 17:11

1)  I don't believe Jesus was praying to Himself, He was praying to His Father, 2) Jesus said in His prayer that His Father gave Him His name, not that He gave it to Himself, and 3) He states He wishes "they" [multiple] believers would be "one", even as He and His Father are "one".     So again, I understand this as "function", not "form".   

Perhaps and more than possible you may be correct in what you say,  yet I see Jesus as the Son and I and the Father are one John 10:30

Joh 5:37  `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; , nor His appearance have ye seen;

Joh 14:9  Jesus saith to him, `So long time am I with you, and thou hast not known me, Philip? he who hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how dost thou say, Shew to us the Father?

Peace H7965 shâlôm  shâlôm  safe from H7999 shâlam  A primitive root; to be safe (in mind, body or estate); figuratively to be (causatively make) completed; by implication to be friendly

Body G4983 sōma the body (as a sound whole), From G4982  sōzō  From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, "safe"); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

John 1:18

(CLV) God no one has ever seen. The only-begotten God, Who is in the bosom of the Father, He unfolds Him."

(WNT)  No human eye has ever seen God: the only Son, who is in the Father's bosom--He has made Him known.

(YLT)  God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father--he did declare.

I realize even with myself it is difficult understand ONE.  "ye have neither heard His voice at any time" so that is Jesus speaking not the Father Yes? For we have neither heard His voice. Jesus is not functioning as the Father .. He is the Father
I and the Father are ONE. I know I know :sigh: didnt do well.


When Jesus says he is one with the Father we can see what he means by other comparisons that Jesus made.

For example in Genesis God says that the man and the wife shall be one flesh. Here there are two people involved in this manner of speech called one.

Jesus also says that we shall be one body. But there are numerous members within that body, but we function as One in purpose and in Spirit, which is Gods Spirit.

We can see that Jesus is not the Father, because he speaks to His Father in heaven, and Father speaks to Jesus as his dear Son.

Offline sheila

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2011, 09:41:50 PM »
Elijah 1 Kings 19..
  Elijah in a cave..".WORD OF LORD" CAME TO HIM, "what are you doing here'?   GO OUT AND STAND ON THE MOUNTAIN IN THE

  PRESENCE OF THE LORD[appeared at mount of transfiguration] FOR THE LORD IS ABOUT TO PASS BY,

   then a  great/powerful wind toe the mountains apart and shattered the rocks[hard hearts?] before the Lord..but the Lord was not in the wind..

   after the wins there was an earthquake,but the Lord was not in the earthquake. After the earthquake came a fire,but the Lord was not in the fire

   and after the fire came a gentle whisper

   When Elijah heard it,he pulled his cloak over his face,and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave

Offline thinktank

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2011, 09:42:07 PM »
Young's Literal Translation
1 And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2 and all to Moses were baptized in the cloud, and in the sea; 3 and all the same spiritual food did eat, 4 and all the same spiritual drink did drink, for they were drinking of a spiritual rock following them, and the rock was the Christ; 5 but in the most of them God was not well pleased, for they were strewn in the wilderness,
6 and those things became types of us, for our not passionately desiring evil things, as also these did desire. 7 Neither become ye idolaters, as certain of them, as it hath been written, 'The people sat down to eat and to drink, and stood up to play;' 8 neither may we commit whoredom, as certain of them did commit whoredom, and there fell in one day twenty-three thousand; 9 neither may we tempt the Christ, as also certain of them did tempt, and by the serpents did perish;

Here we have the cloud, the rock which was the Christ, which gave them spiritual drink
Also note that they tempted the Christ, and they perished by the serpents

Num 21
4 And they journey from mount Hor, the way of the Red Sea, to compass the land of Edom, and the soul of the people is short in the way, 5 and the people speak against God, and against Moses, 'Why hast thou brought us up out of Egypt to die in a wilderness? for there is no bread, and there is no water, and our soul hath been weary of this light bread.
6 And Jehovah sendeth among the people the burning serpents, and they bite the people, and much people of Israel die;

Here they tempted God and perished by serpents, In 1 Cor they tempted Christ and perished by serpents

'Eze 1
4As I looked, behold, a storm wind was coming from the north, a great cloud with fire flashing forth continually and a bright light around it, and in its midst something like glowing metal in the midst of the fire. 5Within it there were figures resembling four living beings. And this was their appearance: they had human form. 6Each of them had four faces and four wings.

a cloud with flashing fire, hmm sounds familiar
also note the cherubim

And above the expanse that is over their head, as an appearance of a sapphire stone, is the likeness of a throne, and on the likeness of the throne a likeness, as the appearance of man upon it from above. 27 And I see as the colour of copper, as the appearance of fire within it round about, from the appearance of his loins and upward, and from the appearance of his loins and downward, I have seen as the appearance of fire, and brightness is to it round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in a cloud in a day of rain, so is the appearance of the brightness round about. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking.

a stone, that is a throne
something like fire, like the appearance of a man, the likeness of the glory of the LORD

Exo 40:34
Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

Deut 31:14
The Lord appeared in the tent in a pillar of cloud that stood above the door of the tent.

back to EZE 2
1Then He said to me (the one in the cloud), "Son of man, stand on your feet that I may speak with you!" 2As He spoke to me the Spirit entered me and set me on my feet; and I heard Him speaking to me. 3Then He said to me, "Son of man, I am sending you to the sons of Israel, to a rebellious people who have rebelled against Me; they and their fathers have transgressed against Me to this very day. 4"I am sending you to them who are stubborn and obstinate children, and you shall say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD.' 5"As for them, whether they listen or not—for they are a rebellious house—they will know that a prophet has been among them. 6"And you, son of man, neither fear them nor fear their words, though thistles and thorns are with you and you sit on scorpions; neither fear their words nor be dismayed at their presence, for they are a rebellious house. 7"But you shall speak My words to them whether they listen or not, for they are rebellious.
8"Now you, son of man, listen to what I am speaking to you; do not be rebellious like that rebellious house. Open your mouth and eat what I am giving you." 9Then I looked, and behold, a hand was extended to me; and lo, a scroll was in it. 10When He spread it out before me, it was written on the front and back, and written on it were lamentations, mourning and woe.

The people rebelled against Him, and Thus says the Lord God


Rev 22:1
Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb

spiritual drink coming from the throne

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; 2 this one was in the beginning with God; 3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men,

For from Him, through Him, and to Him are all things (God here)

The word tabernacled among us, the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle, the likeness of a son of man in the cloud which is the glory of the Lord. That "man" sits on a stone throne, above the cherubim, the arc of the covenant was the throne of God with cherubim underneath where God would "sit". Out of that throne came spirtual water, that Rock is the Christ.

Glory  :icon_king:

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2011, 10:35:18 PM »
"Jesus also says that we shall be one body. But there are numerous members within that body, but we function as One in purpose and in Spirit, which is Gods Spirit." TT

Does God have a spirit?  I have only read Joh 4:24 God is spirit,

I am only asking. Peace and Love Through Jesus
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2011, 11:09:10 PM »
Does God have a spirit?  I have only read Joh 4:24 God is spirit,
Is that a trick question?  :winkgrin:

The fact that God IS a spirit doesn't mean He has a spirit. Being something is not the same as having/owning something.
But the Holy Spirit comes from God so He has a spirit.

Maybe the statement "God is spirit" simply means He has no solid form like air/wind/breath.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2011, 11:18:57 PM »
God has a spirit which I distinct from a man, or unclean spirit.

As God is the Father of all spirits, then everything that is created by God is spirit.

They produce after their own kind

2 Corinthians 5:

 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
 19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
 20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Numbers 16:22
 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

Numbers 27:16
 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,


Mark 3:11
 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Hebrews 12:23
 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 11:25:35 PM by thinktank »

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2011, 12:09:15 AM »
Does God have a spirit?  I have only read Joh 4:24 God is spirit,
Is that a trick question?  :winkgrin:

The fact that God IS a spirit doesn't mean He has a spirit. Being something is not the same as having/owning something.
But the Holy Spirit comes from God so He has a spirit.

Maybe the statement "God is spirit" simply means He has no solid form like air/wind/breath.

No, it is not a trick question.

And I believe it was the Father, not God...Joh 14:26  and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you.

"Maybe the statement "God is spirit" simply means He has no solid form like air/wind/breath." WW
Now we are reasoning!  :bigGrin:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2011, 08:37:37 AM »
And I believe it was the Father, not God...
For me Father=God. I use those words interchangeable.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Is God God?
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2011, 08:46:16 AM »
Jesus said quite plainly, "My Father is greater than I" and " I can do nothing by myself" the "Father is doing the works"-

Now really, I have no axe to grind, I have friends of all persuasions, but as I think we can, as you put it Micah, "reason" without necessarily agreeing :o)

As WW stated, I also see the oneness of Jesus as being primarily functional and a statement of union in essence and purpose. I can not see the Son as co-equal to the Father, (maybe not even co-eternal, "Father" is genative in relationship to "Son"). It seems to me that Colossians  teaches that Jesus possesses the fulness of deity because "so it pleased the Father" to make it so.

Jesus is the "express image" of the invisible God, the "radiance of the Father's glory" (Heb 1:1-3)so when He says, "I and My Father are one" it is reasonable to conclude He is speaking of "union of essence and purpose", and is offering us the right to become the same(John 1:-12 the right to become sons of God) "that they may be one even as I and the Father are one.


1 Corinthians 15 shows that the Father is the one who is subjecting all things to Christ, who will return all things to the Father after every adversary has become united in one spirit, so that God may be all in all.

The way I see it Jesus as the Logos(expressed thought) of God was God in the beginning in essence and union as Son but not equal in form, nor in authority. Perhaps Jesus "godness" was given to Him by the Father (thats what it seems to say in Colossians). Therefore He was also with God in the beginning and "in God" (I came out from God) as a seed, son, etc.
 
  This I think, is why Jesus rebutted the Pharisees assertion that He was making Himself out to be God with the argument, "So what! Don't the scriptures say that you are all gods and sons of the most high?"

In my opinion He was teaching them about the nature of sonship and the creation of man and the ultimate purpose of man to be living stones in one temple, of which He is the chief cornerstone- the stumbling block.

Whether or not my view is correct, and I see it very much as a developing understanding- i think it is so ironic that the Pharisees, sitting under the tree of the knowledge f good and evil, eating its fruit, and listening to the whisper in their heart from the adversary ("You shall be as God), ruling and dominating their brothers and preparing, in Cain, to murder their Messiah- acted all put out because Jesus taught that men could be Elohym and Sons.

What the Father has offered to those who overcome, is the right to inherit all things with Jesus and to reign in life, light and love -with Him as Priests and Sons in the ages to come

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(Eph 2:6-8)

After all adversaries including death are destroyed so that only that which cannot be shaken remains there will be only love. Who will bee "rule, power or authority"? It will be done away. God will be all in all. Every shadow will pass- every law. All consumed within the perfect law of liberty burning within every heart in the renewed creation.

Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
(Rom 8:21)

Beloved, we know not yet what we shall be, but we know that when He appears we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is"


Is it not written, in your own law, ye are all gods and sons of the most high?
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com