Author Topic: Is "conformity to the image of Jesus" possible prior to the resurrection?  (Read 602 times)

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martincisneros

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Romans 8 says that we're predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.  Does the image require the substance unique to the time period after the resurrection, or can the Holy Scriptures through the Holy Spirit take us to the very brink in this life-time where immortality is the only difference?  Can we teeter on being in His image experientially and practically rather than just positionally, convenantally, and from "an eternal way of looking at it"?

And, would other Christians necessarily recognize it during your life-time if you ever "got there" or would the old saying be completely inevitable that they'll build a memorial to you with the stones that they used to stone you?  Are the "completed ones" universally, inescapably, and eternally the ones that are martyred without hardly an exception?

Is it possible to get at least as far as St. Paul got where he was so conscious of his life being hid with Christ in God that he could [unconsciously and consistently] say "Imitate me as I imitate Christ?"  Do we ever really grow that far in this life, or was that from the bravado and bombast that others have attributed as being inherent with St. Paul's personality?

Offline hopeful

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I think that if God does the growing and conforming- all things are possible.
You're welcome to visit http://toknowhimmore.blogspot.com/

joyful1

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Hi Martin!
Paul admits that he has not fully attained. But he admonishes the Philippians to "immitate" him (Paul). To take what he AND THEY had already "attained" and build upon it! A maturing process, if you will, of those that are of a "mature age" already. Will we ever stop growing? The kingdom teachings from Jesus depict an "ever increasing" kingdom! I think that includes both its scope AND perfection, if you will.  Kind of a (*forgive the pun) "polymath" type of thingy  :happygrin: just how close can you get to pi and STILL not perfectly attain it??
However...in the practical sense...

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

This would be the maturing process ....
Then there is this verse....

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Like a downpayment on the whole "perfection thingy?" Sort of like waiting for the "adoption, to wit?"

Romans 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.


There remains that weird question about John, however....did he really die?
  :happygrin:
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 10:13:27 PM by joyful1 »

Offline Reverend G

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I think that we are called upon to conform to His image at every moment in our lives.  I also believe that it is extremely rare that anyone could ever hope to conform at every moment in their lives. Impossible? I don't know, but unlikely, at the very least.   

Does this mean we should just give up and admit defeat?  Of course not.  Some people buy lottery tickets hoping to win the big prize every week.  Most never win.  But they keep trying.  The idea of that big payout is the carrot on a stick that keeps them motivated. 

Once one experiences the difference in their own life that living in Christ brings, the motivation is much more than a carrot on a stick.  Still, we are human, and bound to fall short of his image.  When we use this as a goal, our falling short of it, even on a daily basis, is still much better than the life we live if we stop trying completely.  Unfortunately, too many churches dangle the risk of ET as enticement to act right, and that just doesn't fly with me.

Offline anti_nietzsche

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I think it has to do with leaving behind things. IE, I pack my backpack, sell all the rest, and away am I. Simply living on the road, preaching to anyone I meet. Out there, on the streets.

I seriously pondered this some years ago. Even decided to go. I met a christian at the edge of my town who gave me 50 bucks, simply because I listened to him speaking about Jesus.

But then I remembered my parents, and got a bit afraid. So I gave up this idea.

I think such a life is almost a necessity when you want to "max out" your level :D.

joyful1

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Martin--
We were made "subject to vanity." And in that initial state, there is absolutely no way that we can be anything other than "subject to vanity!" We were "subject to" under the power of--vanity, self worship!

Is it possible, however, that the old "chain of vanity" around our neck (the one that kept us bound for so long) became such a part of who we were, that we don't notice that its really GONE NOW? We know we are different now: a NEW CREATURE.......but just how different are we? We must find out!

The dog is tied to the tree. The dog wears a collar all his life. The dog is subject to the collar, it has power over him.  One day the master comes and takes the collar off of the dog. The master tells the dog to come inside the house, get warm, and have something to eat.  The dog comes to the door, wags his tail and stands in the rain....because the dog still thinks his collar will HURT him if he goes another step!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 09:24:47 PM by joyful1 »

Paul Hazelwood

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Quote
The dog is tied to the tree. The dog wears a collar all his life. The dog is subject to the collar, it has power over him.  One day the master comes and takes the collar off of the dog. The master tells the dog to come inside the house, get warm, and have something to eat.  The dog comes to the door, wags his tail and stands in the rain....because the dog still thinks his collar will HURT him if he goes another step!


And then the master has compassion on the Dog and helps and leads the Dog into the house till the Dog is no longer afraid.

 :icon_flower:

rockclimber

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Melchizedek