I want your input on the "natural body."

[Redlettervoice]

.

This is peeking thru the lattice, and it has to do with "entering" the Kingdom of God.

Since there is NO darkness there, the "body" cannot be dark.........there is where they

will NOT say, "I am sick!" 

Paul prayed that our whole spirit, soul, and "body" be presented......

The scriptures say "Present your "Bodies" .......which is your reasonable service.

Notice "entering in" having your "bodies" washed with PURE WATER.

Notice, we "wait" for the "redemption" of the "body."

The word "redemption" is connected to the word "REDEEMED, and REDEEMER."
Right?

Ok, our REDEEMER is "strong."

There is a word in Ezera or Nehemiah one that speaks "other lords beside Thee
have had dominion over our "bodies."

Fear not them that can kill the body, but fear HIM.

Is this a temporal "authority" given ???

One place it says they "held them fast and refused to let them go."

I was talking the other day on the Messianic Jew board and they really study out
the original word meanings.  I have always quoted what it says about Hebrews 9:1
concerning what is behind the first veil, and how it is connected to the "first covenant."  A girl kept saying the word "covenant" was not there.  Ok, I checked
even the Jewish Bible and it "was" there.  But she knew the GREEK which was
what that verse was originally written in and so I noticed it was "italized" in mine.
Anyway, this man came on and said what it meant was "outer court."

I could receive that, it changed not what I believed, but added to my understanding.

and

gave me another question...............so I asked, "does that mean the "body." and
he said "yes."  The first tabernacle. 

I got to thinking......about how something was allowed to be "trampled" for a season
in the book of revelation, and I wondered if this was connected to the "above"
that I spoke on. .

what do you think?

It seems there is a "divine health" to be given in the prize of the Kingdom of God.......not a healing, which is in the fivefold. 

What do you think?

Romans 8 speaks of us waiting on the "redemption" of our "bodies" and speaks
"what a man seeth" why doth he yet hope for it. 

I am not talking about going to heaven so to speak like it is taught, but am I seeing
more on the body to occur right here?

Jesus plainly said, "Which is easier? to say thy sins be forgiven, " "or to say,
TAKE UP THY BED and WALK."   And the man IMMEDIATELY got up and
walked. 

Isa. 59 speaks of "this is my covenant when I take away their sins" and Romans
11 uses the "same" wording??? Then Jesus plainly said, John the Baptist was
the greatest up to that point, but one in the KINGDOM of GOD was even greater.

There are many more scriptures and I think I am seeing a layer about the "body"
that I've not heretofore seen.........it is not about "leaving" "here" ........it is about
putting on "incorruption" ......."divine health." 

Your thoughts ??? 

[Cardinal]

  I've seen the incorruptible body for years, but no one much talks about it anymore. Probably because the ones who saw it have either died, or are aging. I think it's a whole lot easier to believe for this one when you're younger, and your body is not reminding you on a daily basis that you're getting old. 

BUT; One of the ways He made it life in me was in that He said to the Israelites, that if they obeyed His statutes and His commandments, that He would put none of the curses of the Egyptians on them. Death of the firstborn = death of the physical body. We are first born of the flesh, then of the Spirit. My  Blessings....

[Redlettervoice]

Cardinal, I knew you'd see some of it.  I will write you
an email when I can.

[fire walker]

RLS,

Haven't got a direct answer to that question, maybe this though:  that not all
shall sleep ( see the grave) but will be CHANGED (translated, tansformed) in the twinkling of an eye.

 Personaly as close to a parable as I can bring to say: I do not believe a natural seed ever sees death after it is placed in the ground (buried) it is changed into a plant after its kind, after the plant rises up from the ground one would be hard pressed to
dig up the ground and find the seed still there, the seed died but never saw death.   
There is a verse of scripture that says:
In dying they shall never see death, so it appears to me in my POV that dying and death are two differant things, that is why I have always said life doesn't end at the grave, only the body of dust dies which I believe is going to be changed or transformed to a ressurection spiritual body made of light that is in the law of the spirit that can possibly manifest in a natural body for a temporary period and ONLY when for some purpose of God, not of my own, but is no longer limited by natural law and can cast no shadow. When we are no longer in measured time there will be no differance from one hour or a thousand years, so the above is my POV on the ressurection body and or transfigured/transformed body, that body is within us now germinating  like the plant in the above is within the seed below.

Jesus also answered questions about  the body so we get some glimpses from scripture: Niether taken nor given in marriage,  be as the angels of Heaven, niether male or female, niether Jew or Gentile, in Christ we are complete and no longer divided to see only in part but face to face even though we shall be personaly distinct one from another.  Now the Lord has certainly made it life in me,he has put fire and life into my spirit in places that were dorment in my younger years, yes my body is aging and every year I become a little slower than the year before, yet I do not feel old or hopeless in spirit because I have been compensated in my age with grace and life in areas of the spirit that were laying dorment in my younger years.

These are Just my personal POV and if it helped you on this topic then I say good, if not then I have still given what I have received for now.

Peace,
Fire Walker

[sparrow]

..., yes my body is aging and every year I become a little slower than the year before, yet I do not feel old or hopeless in spirit because I have been compensated in my age with grace and life in areas of the spirit that were laying dorment in my younger years.

That was great! I completely understand.
Thanks for sharing that fire walker.
Makes perfect sense.

I also liked your seed analogy.

Good stuff, friend!!

[Cardinal]

  I like that, too, Firewalker  Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

By RLV,
I am reminded that Jesus was transfigured on the mount BEFORE His death and resurrection.

[Cardinal]

  Amen Beloved Servant, that He was......  

[Redlettervoice]

 :coffee2:Well!!! I see that I have "already" shared "some" of that
that I have in my files re the "body."

Here's some more:  This is not concrete, but in the studying stage.
Please feel free to critique.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I want to ask you a question, does the OUTER
tabernacle" have to do with the "body"?
you think?

See? there's another layer........!!! the worldy sanctuary.
People see that as a natural building........but perhaps
the outer tabernacle tells us it is the body???

The outer tabernacle is that which is trampled down
is it not? If this is what it means, I can see a lot......

Fear not them that can kill the "body" and after that can
do NO MORE....but fear HIM...etc. etc.
etc.

And Jesus builds the TRUE Tabernacle, that is surely
not the outer .......but in Hebrews, isn't that speaking
of the NEW BODY which the Lord pitched, and not man.

People are "in bondage" when man rules.....but they
rejoice when the Lord does. Man is under tutors and
governors til the time appointed of the Father to bring
them out and place them "under a HIGHER Authority."
The Authority that is a wall of fire, invisible protection
built by the Spirit, .......but no man takes this honor
to himself, it takes the Spirit to say so.

Things do progress.......we can see that from all the
authorities listed in lst Cor 11.


This topic brought about discussion of the NEW body,
the "heavenly" eternal house reserved for us.
but that is NOT what I was originally referring to.
Perhaps it might be best described as the
"quickened body" as maybe that best decribes
what I was referring to.
If that same spirit that raised up Christ Jesus "dwell" in
you, it shall QUICKEN your MORTAL body.
A mortal body
is not the heavenly new body, but it "has" been quickened
by the Spirit that inhabits it.
A "mortal body" has NOT put on immortality, or else
it would be an immortal body, which I think the "heavenly
NEW body is" ......not the NEW MAN, but the NEW body
for the NEW Man. This gets hairy! ha

But the quickened mortal body ........is probably more
describing what I am or was talking about in the first
article here.
Now, that cannot take place unless as some of you wrote
the "consciousness" is quickened first! So the
consciousness is being "changed" from serving dead
works to serve the LIVING God, and to come to perfection
if God wills. And this we will do, if God permits.

So the "change" of "consciousness" brings us to a
"consciousness" void of what the "consciousness of
sins" brought or brings us to, and it is HIS Consciousness
as it is written: "no more consciousness of sins." The
Law does not do this, the gift of God does.

And as that happens, it "affects" the BODY. One person
above said it this way:
I believe we, our true bodies the hidden, inner one will
manifest healing in the outer one whenever we can accept,
become one with healing. The inner one IS and always
has been in line with the "consciousness" of God, and it
is the MORTAL body that is quickened, not the NEW Body
the NEW ONE needs no quickening, it is "reserved" and
already prepared.

But our "mortal bodies" need quickening .......
to be PRESERVED.......sustained........til
So it is the indwelling spirit that quickens even the body
not just the consciousness.
I hope I have made that a little plainer. Anyway, what
I see is maybe NOT healing but the body being changed
while it is being quickened ......we shall not all sleep,
but we shall be changed.

To NOT sleep, is to "awake." Not talking of what body
we shall have in the eternal heavens, it needs no
quickening, it is reserved already in a perfect state.

But the "mortal body" needs quickening for the Spirit
to cause it to be "wholly" preserved. And I pray God
that your "whole" body, soul, and Spirit, be Preserved
to that day, .........seems to be a time of the Awakened
Quickened bodies, but Eternal Bodies, are when time
is no more.
 
Do you not believe that God can make a Quickened Body
to go with that Consiousness of God? We have somewhat
of a Consciousness of God now, do we not also have
somewhat of a Quickened Body? Surley so, for Psa. 91 says
"I will satisfy Him with looooooooooooong life, because
he has known my name.

Perhaps this is part of the "covenant" PROMISED to Abraham
and when God fulfilled it, it "included" a quickened body
for the long life. So then when it says, "I pray that your "whole"
body, soul, and spirit be preserved ........no wonder it also says
"Faithful is He that has called you, and HE will do it."

It has nothing to do with Abraham's words, but it was a Gift from
God to him.
So .......the two go together! His Consciousness and the "quickened
body!"


The Revelation of His
Consiousness affects the mortal body. It is quickened
by the Revelation as it comes. No matter what. Nothing
is too hard for God. We shall not all sleep........

Maybe the Lord is showing me more on the "body" than
I've been able to comprehend before............It has always been
easier for me to see things for the Spirit and soul.....but this
prayer was to be "wholly" preserved. Body, Soul, and Spirit.
Just maybe so.

That Calvary was not just for the "taking away of sins" by
the Lamb of God, but we shall behold HIM and He shall say
"Take up thy bed and walk!"

[rosered]

 

 Eze 10:5 And the sound of the cherubims' wings was heard [even] to the outer court, as the voice of the Almighty God when he speaketh.  

  even the outer court is shaken by the Lord 's voice 
 but the temple mind/heart is proctected by the Lords power
 our earth/mortal bodys contains the works of God in them   seeds of life planted to glorify Him 

 

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months.

[Cardinal]

  AMEN ladies........He's been talking to me about the glorified body lately, too.....

[Redlettervoice]

Lots of good thoughts from everyone........"we" have the mind of Christ
no doubt within us. 

I liked what Servant pointed out that Jesus showed His glory on the
MOUNT of Transfiguration "before" His crucifixion!  If that be a pattern
for us, we will be "appearing" to one another.  I know that is almost
unbelilevable but you know the Spirit can do "anything!"   

Was it His body that he showed, Servant? or was it His "glory>"  How
much of the changing and quickening of the vile body is HIS Glory!

Well, I for one am gonna ask questions, I just might be like Esther
and get some anwers and some quickening.

Thanks again.

Also liked what Firewalker said.  You be a great bunch of folks.
So glad you are here.

[Cardinal]

  AMEN, RLV........very blessed to be among the brethren here.......

[Cardinal]

  PS........RLV, He gave me something new about the body, posted under the "Serpent Seed Doctrine" thread.........Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

I'm just given to say, that the three were given a mere glimpse of what the body appears like when it shines forth His glory from within.
But not just did his face and body (nature) reveal the glory.
So do His garments.

[Cardinal]

  Amen.......

[Nathan]

Revelation also speaks about John measuring the tabernacle, but not the outer court . . .measuring the outer court of another, to me is judging someone by their outward appearance . . .

In a nutshell, I see us as spirit seed before manifesting in these bodies of flesh.  Being in the spirit realm, we were "alive IN him".  But when the time came for us to manifest on this earth, we had to die . . .which simply means to be separated . . .we are separated from our original domain as we are conceived in these bodies of flesh . . .and these bodies of flesh are bound to laws of the flesh, even though my spirit, which is really who I am . . .is not bound, neither is it affected by  the pursuasions of the flesh realm.  Now, my mind is a whole other matter . . .that's why submission and order are so difficult for us to acheive . . .truth is, it's not what you can achieve that ushers you into the realm of the Sabbath, but it's when you submit . . .you submit your mind to your spirit.

So the power comes at the "born again" experience because it is this experience that brings spirit and soul back into proper alignment with God's original order.  It is there that resurrection takes place.  The resurrection is not about natural flesh that has died returning to life as much as it is the resurrection of our spirit returning to it's place of dominance over our souls.  The language in Revelation says there is a beast who was, then wasn't and now is . . .this is our carnality within . . .when we were born into the flesh, it was, when Christ finished the redemptive work on the cross, it wasn't . .but when we live according to our flesh, we resurrect it so that it is again.

Living in this body of flesh is the time of the Gentiles . . .my flesh is exposed to and bound by natural laws . . .the older I get, the more my bones creak and moan, the grayer my hair becomes, the weaker I get . . .but that's all natural stuff.  Flesh profiteth nothing . . . Now the Lord is that spirit and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty . . .

The time will come when the day of the Gentiles will be over . . when this body gives it's last breath . . .and when this body of flesh is laid to rest, my spirit will then return to the origin in the Father from which it came.  So why did I manifest in the flesh in the first place?  To come into the maturity of reproduction.  To give birth the spiritual things to a natural earth . . .to see things as though they are and speak it out so that it can then be.  That's what acknowledging Christ does . . . it ties my spirit to his spirit and he then does the inner transforming in me that allows his will that is already complete in the spirit, to manifest also on the earth . . .it's part of his plan to manifest his nature in every dimension.  It's already complete in the spirit, and now, it's coming to completion in the flesh.

[Cardinal]

  Amen to all this Nathan except one thing; THERE ARE A PEOPLE WHO WILL NOT TASTE DEATH BY WAY OF THE GRAVE. Mortality is going to be swallowed up of immortality, providing the Master with a place to lay His head, ie. the "superior" resurrection Paul talked about that takes place while still in the body.

The resurrection you just spoke of is represented as "rending the veil", ie. the first set of curtains between the outer and the inner, laying down our flesh. But there is another veil between the inner and Holy of Holies, that the Father is getting ready to rend, as only HE can, for no man can come to the FATHER, except HE call them. We've been called to Jesus and called to the Christ in the past 2 realms, but now is the call of the Father going out. Blessings....

[onlytruth]

hi everyone...
Jesus gave his life and died on the cross.If he didn't give his life,he would be walking with us this day.....But even in death he was faithful to his calling!
I beleive Jesus knew that he knew,that he would never die(he raised people from the dead on a regular basis)
When we are shown this mystery,I beleive we will live as long as our Father desires us to.
blessings

[Redlettervoice]

Revelation also speaks about John measuring the tabernacle, but not the outer court . . .measuring the outer court of another, to me is judging someone by their outward appearance . . .

Did not the Pharisee's and rulers do that to Jesus because
of what they could NOT "see" with their natural eyes?

What kind of "proof" was they looking for?



In a nutshell, I see us as spirit seed before manifesting in these bodies of flesh.  Being in the spirit realm, we were "alive IN him".  But when the time came for us to manifest on this earth, we had to die . . .which simply means to be separated . . .we are separated from our original domain as we are conceived in these bodies of flesh . . .and these bodies of flesh are bound to laws of the flesh, even though my spirit, which is really who I am . . .is not bound, neither is it affected by  the pursuasions of the flesh realm.  Now, my mind is a whole other matter . . .that's why submission and order are so difficult for us to acheive . . .truth is, it's not what you can achieve that ushers you into the realm of the Sabbath, but it's when you submit . . .you submit your mind to your spirit.

So the power comes at the "born again" experience because it is this experience that brings spirit and soul back into proper alignment with God's original order.  It is there that resurrection takes place.  The resurrection is not about natural flesh that has died returning to life as much as it is the resurrection of our spirit returning to it's place of dominance over our souls.  The language in Revelation says there is a beast who was, then wasn't and now is . . .this is our carnality within . . .when we were born into the flesh, it was, when Christ finished the redemptive work on the cross, it wasn't . .but when we live according to our flesh, we resurrect it so that it is again.

Living in this body of flesh is the time of the GentilesI have wondred about that?!!!! . . .my flesh is exposed to and bound by natural laws . . .the older I get, the more my bones creak and moan, the grayer my hair becomes, the weaker I get . . .but that's all natural stuff.  Flesh profiteth nothing . . . Now the Lord is that spirit and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty . . .

The time will come when the day of the Gentiles will be over . . when this body gives it's last breath . . .and when this body of flesh is laid to rest, my spirit will then return to the origin in the Father from which it came.  So why did I manifest in the flesh in the first place?  To come into the maturity of reproduction.  To give birth the spiritual things to a natural earth . . .to see things as though they are and speak it out so that it can then be.  That's what acknowledging Christ does . . . it ties my spirit to his spirit and he then does the inner transforming in me that allows his will that is already complete in the spirit, to manifest also on the earth . . .it's part of his plan to manifest his nature in every dimension.  It's already complete in the spirit, and now, it's coming to completion in the flesh.

Not sure that I understand exactly what you are saying on some
of the rest of it, Nathan, but it sure does not bother me.
I just wanted to point those couple of things out.

[Beloved Servant]

I FOUND THIS! ...

"This is not the church realm we have known, my friend, this is the incorruptible, immortal, unchangeable, omnipotent, eternal realm of God!  And it is not a realm we enter after death, in some far-off heaven somewhere, but it is the realm prepared for God's mature sons right here upon earth, the realm of God's fullness, of perfection, of maturity, of wisdom, of power and dominion, where God is all that He is in His people — the realm of manifest sonship!" — Preston Eby

[Redlettervoice]

I FOUND THIS! ...

"This is not the church realm we have known, my friend, this is the incorruptible, immortal, unchangeable, omnipotent, eternal realm of God!  And it is not a realm we enter after death, in some far-off heaven somewhere, but it is the realm prepared for God's mature sons right here upon earth, the realm of God's fullness, of perfection, of maturity, of wisdom, of power and dominion, where God is all that He is in His people — the realm of manifest

 
Is this the "discerning" of the TRUE body?
Not the in part church realm.  But the unseen heavenly realm
incorruptible, immortal, unchangeable, omnipotent, Sons
of God in His Likeness, Jesus the Firstborn, afterward
those that are His at His coming........
eternal...........is it not? Maybe when it says "call for
the elders" ........these shall be the "elders" that come.
The 24???
I said that because of what is written about "not" discerning
the "body" being the cause of "sickness" "weakness" and
"some even die." 

And when you couple this with what Nathan said about

measuring the outer court of another, /[color]to me is judging someone by their outward appearance . . .

I caught that because of those scriptures, Nathan.
And because when Jesus was being "crucified" there
were people that wanted to "see" a proof that their
"natural eyes" could see that He was who He said He
was.  But it was "perceived" "seen by the Spirit"by
those  who PERCEIVED.

PERCEPTION does not require proof that a person can
"see" with the natural eyes.  It is a truth, an eternal
truth, that is "given" to know.  John said, "And ye
know all things." It is one Stone talking to Another Stone
the beautiful jewels God has made.

[martincisneros]

Amen to all this Nathan except one thing; THERE ARE A PEOPLE WHO WILL NOT TASTE DEATH BY WAY OF THE GRAVE. Mortality is going to be swallowed up of immortality, providing the Master with a place to lay His head, ie. the "superior" resurrection Paul talked about that takes place while still in the body.

The resurrection you just spoke of is represented as "rending the veil", ie. the first set of curtains between the outer and the inner, laying down our flesh. But there is another veil between the inner and Holy of Holies, that the Father is getting ready to rend, as only HE can, for no man can come to the FATHER, except HE call them. We've been called to Jesus and called to the Christ in the past 2 realms, but now is the call of the Father going out. Blessings....

For those that are ready for some meat, I won't need to take the time to explain this any further; for those still needing milk, this won't make the least bit of sense and I won't take the time to explain anyway.  Simply archive this post in your email drafts folder or in notepad or wherever for when you can bare it.  All of my studies of St. Paul over the last 19 years have continually persuaded me that he was a Word of Faith teacher in the modern expectation of a Word of Faith teacher, as well as Postmillenialist, UR, and other things that speak of God's triumph in mankind and in human history and in daily life, but obviously the challenge is to either find a singular statement to that effect that's undenyable, or to prove it doctrine by doctrine throughout his 13 epistles.  Many have done just that, but when you're talking about such a volumn as all that Jesus wanted the nations observing in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- then many stumble through their unrenewed minds and think that we went on to some other subject when the Gospel is one Message that touches every single principle, problem, need, etc., of life.  Remember his comments about imitating him as he imitated Christ?  1Corinthians 4 and 1Corinthians 11 for those who don't remember him ever saying that in passing, though words to that effect beyond those two places where he literally said it are carried through to most of his epistles in some way in more subtle ways.  Jesus said He had power to lay His life down and power to take it up again, and no man could ever take it!  Jesus said that if you'd continue in the Word He was continuing in that proceeded from the Father then you'd know the truth and would be just as free as Jesus, in John 8, because the same truth working in Him would be working in you to harvest point as was His lifestyle.  John 15:7 if you abide in Me and My Words abide in you, then ask what you will, and it will be done for you!  Same concepts in Colossians 3:12-17, as verified by John 16:23.  Lots of you aren't there where you can even begin to understand much of the modern prosperity and healing theology, victorious living Word of Faith and Postmillenial application of the Gospel, so I'll make it brief with the major meditation [and restudy] tease for you or the worst migraine you've ever had if you're not ready to follow the Cloud.  First of all, about what Cardinal said.  Minimally read 1Corinthians chapters 10 through 16 as one complete discourse that never changes subjects.  So, this "not tasting death" is simply the fullness of all of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit spoken of throughout those chapters, and Jesus said that if you really believed Him, then you'd never ever ever ever taste death.

Anyway, here's my bomb for some of you: 1Corinthians 4: these things I have applied to myself and to Apollos FIGURATIVELY so that you would not think beyond what is written and that you wouldn't boast one against the other.  I thought he meant the 10th chapter and other statements throughout his epistles about the Old Testament.  That's not what he said at all in 1Corinthians 4.  He said that what he said about himself was FIGURATIVE.  That dear man never walked in a day of persecution in his life, [other than believing for his own needs and the needs of others to be met with his faith teaching,] until it was time to testify before Ceasar and deliver the good testimony that Jesus Christ delivered.  You couldn't touch his life!  He walked so committed to the Written Word that he had power to lay his life down and he had power to take it up again.  NO MAN COULD TAKE IT FROM HIM -- THIS COMMAND HE RECEIVED FROM HIS FATHER -- (DON'T LOSE WHAT I'M SAYING HERE) -- JESUS SAID IF YOU'D CONTINUE THE WAY HE WAS CONTINUING IN THE WORD OF THE FATHER THEN YOU'D BE JUST AS FREE AS HIM!!  WE'VE RECEIVED THE SAME COMMANDMENTS OF THE FATHER THAT JESUS RECEIVED -- THOUGH OBVIOUSLY THEIR APPLICATION TO OUR LIVES AND THE TIMING OF OUR EVENTS MUST BE INTERPRETED TO EACH OF US AS THE HOLY SPIRIT GIVES THE UTTERANCE.  Paul's comments about his own life were as parabolic as Jesus' parables.  St. Paul overcame the world and as one made conformable to His life and death obtained the resurrection while still in the body!  Lived as long as he wanted to and preached as long as he wanted to with his astral projecting self (1Corinthians 5:3, Colossians 2:5, et. al.) that he'd operate in by speaking in other tongues and receiving the bread and cup daily and superabounding in thanksgiving and triumphant longsuffering thereby -- and when he'd had enough, he said years earlier that to depart and be with Christ is far better, and so he let them take his life.  But they didn't touch him all of the days of his life, according to him, if words mean anything in the Corinthians letters where rants about himself were figurative.  The Written Word is the key to the supernatural.  Always has been and always will be.  We MUST BECOME the letter that both kills and makes alive depending on how He chooses to use us as we submit wholly to Him to be possessed of the entire New Testament!!

[Cardinal]

  Awesome, Martin, I HEARD that! Blessings....

[Redlettervoice]

I am disecting that post, Martin. 
Have written some stuff......and seen some "new" stuff
but I am too tired tonight to fool with this computer any more
Downloaded Internet Explorer 8 and had to undo it.
I will try to post tomorrow.  Here we all be.