Author Topic: being delivered from the law  (Read 4707 times)

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Offline Seth

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Re: being delivered from the law
« Reply #75 on: July 16, 2009, 07:50:50 PM »
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Seth, back to the discussion of Paul's struggles, him saying "no longer I that do it", the subsequent discussion of Paul/us being accountable/responsible, etc....I've questioned if since the above is stated by Paul and true, then was the sin even being laid to his account at that point...if it's "no longer I that do it", he'd been reconciled through grace, etc.

Yes, the sin was laid to his account by the law itself, when he was under the law, remembering that slavery to sin is by the law, and deliverance from sin is by the Spirit. So even though his was not the causal responsibility for lust, the law laid it to his charge - so that in his struggle, he would recognize his slavery.

When he was under the law, and in the flesh, he wanted to obey the good commandments, but slavery kept him from doing it and brought him under guilt. By being delivered from the law and the body of sin, the Holy Spirit STANDS between the body of sin, and our minds. That is how the flesh is crucified before it is physically dead. The Holy Spirit is the barrier between us and the body of sin, which is why Romans 8 declares that when we have the Spirit we are no longer in the flesh.

HOWEVER, we are still GROWING in the Spirit, while Christ was the visible image of the invisible God having the full measure of the Spirit, the weight of Glory that we hope for. Christ was perfectly mature because he was the visible image of perfect maturity (God). That is why, though we still have sin, we GROW enough to maturity so that more and more, the lusts of the seed of sin die out and our minds are completely dead to the lusts it produces.

Accountablity is useful to God even when the causal responsibility is not placed on man. It's useful for him to make us accountable so that we will desire deliverance.



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I don't know of any off the top of my head...do you know of any scriptures/places where Paul talked about needing to ask God for forgiveness of his sins, or even confess them?  I know he said things like "no longer I that do it...God's grace is sufficient...Jesus would deliver him"...

Yes, the reason we ask God for forgiveness is to show our humility. We SHOULD want to be delivered from sin, and God does not resist the humble. So God's grace actually brings us to a place of more humility so that if/when we sin we WANT to be humble enough to ask for forgiveness. God resists the proud, and asking forgiveness simply shows our humility.

Offline jabcat

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Re: being delivered from the law
« Reply #76 on: July 16, 2009, 08:47:49 PM »
Can you think of any places where Paul said he needed to confess his sins or ask for forgiveness?

Offline Seth

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Re: being delivered from the law
« Reply #77 on: July 16, 2009, 11:11:39 PM »
No, I see in Acts 19 (?) where Paul says "God is calling all men everywhere to repent" (paraphrase). Repentance is not the same as asking for forgiveness, but it is a change of mind. Actually, in Paul's conversion, he doesn't ask for forgiveness, and in fact on Pentacost, I don't think there is any sign that ANY of the Apostles asked for it. The Spirit just came upon them.

In Romans 6, 7, and 8 there is no indication that a formal request for forgiveness is necessary. HOWEVER, going back to the repentance part, both chapters 7 & 8 describe that change of mind pretty clearly. So I don't think that it says "God's grace is sufficient" should be read to mean that not having a change of mind is necessary, which some in UR believe, unfortunately; quite the opposite. The change of mind is what the Gospel is all about.

As to the two-Gospel theory, I don't see things that way. All signs point to all apostles being of one accord regarding THE Gospel. IMHO

Offline Molly

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Re: being delivered from the law
« Reply #78 on: July 17, 2009, 12:50:05 AM »
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Repentance is not the same as asking for forgiveness, but it is a change of mind.

"repent"

G3340
μετανοέω
metanoeō
met-an-o-eh'-o
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.


"a change of mind"--metanoeo



G3539
νοιέω
noieō
noy-eh'-o
From G3563; to exercise the mind (observe), that is, (figuratively) to comprehend, heed: - consider, perceive, think, understand.