Author Topic: hell as "something else", a metaphorical hell  (Read 768 times)

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Offline anti_nietzsche

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hell as "something else", a metaphorical hell
« on: October 10, 2012, 09:02:30 PM »
I think the in the past two centuries many people held a view of salvation and damnation that was pretty universalistic although it wasn't as detailed as modern Universal Reconciliation. Many held that hell was simply a metaphor for something here in this life, not something that would await us after death. It had come into our everyday language really, for example when people exclaim, life was hell today, or some such thing. Perhaps this simple metaphorical understanding of hell makes he most sense of all the explanations that people thought up about hell. It's pretty simple - if you believe in Jesus you get the light of life, and once there is a light you're not in the outer darkness anymore, "outer darkness" being another term for hell that Jesus himself uses in the bible. So perhaps hell simply is everything that you experience unless you have Jesus, it is not something you're banished to, it is is simply how life and existence are unless you have Jesus. If you have Jesus, you have the light of life, and that's a promise of God.

It might be interesting what the bible says about the New Jerusalem, the heavenly cities. It says its gates will never be shut and that no sinner can enter the city. I could conceive of this meaning that those cast into the outer darkness can still enter the New Jerusalem (its gates will never be shut), but only if they give up sin and get forgiveness. But maybe they don't want to give up their sin and so they can't enter the city as something defiled, and must pitch their tent in the Outer Darkness.

IE, life in the afterlife will also be like we have it now, we can sin and must live in the outer darkness, or we put faith in the Christ, receive forgiveness and can live in the New Jerusalem. I suppose some really strong christians will also wander the Outer Darkness, getting people to stop sinning and receiving forgiveness. Or God makes it so that everyone who enters the New Jerusalem will never leave it, you just get changed somehow and will never want again to do what would get you out of the city.

Has anyone of you ever read such a view? It would make a lot of sense to me. But there are still the Day of Judgment verses.


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hell as "something else", a metaphorical hell
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2012, 09:18:10 PM »
I think the in the past two centuries many people held a view of salvation and damnation that if you believe in Jesus you get the light of life, and once there is a light you're not in the outer darkness anymore, "
Mat 8:29 "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"

I don't think believing in Jesus is enough. The demons didn't just believe in Jesus they really knew Him. But still they were in outer darkness.

Lip service is no service at all.
 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: hell as "something else", a metaphorical hell
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 12:54:58 AM »
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Lip service is no service at all. :2c:



 My wife disagrees  :icon_jokercolor:


Offline thinktank

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Re: hell as "something else", a metaphorical hell
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 12:57:40 AM »
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Mat 8:29 "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"

I don't think believing in Jesus is enough. The demons didn't just believe in Jesus they really knew Him. But still they were in outer darkness.


I wanted to bring this up to universalists here, now is a good opportunity.

How does that fit with the scripture you often quote about no man can say Jesus is Lord without the holy spirit?


Offline jabcat

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Re: hell as "something else", a metaphorical hell
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 04:07:24 AM »
It's not just a belief of the head, it comes with a change of the heart, initiated and accomplished by the Holy Spirit.  Spiritually reborn from above/born again.  Given the faith to believe/trust Jesus as Savior.  IMO, it's the whole "no one comes to the Father unless the Spirit draw him" truth.  The demons (if they will be) have not yet been drawn and changed/renewed. 

Every man in his own order/turn.  Blessings.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hell as "something else", a metaphorical hell
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 10:47:24 AM »
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Mat 8:29 "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"

I don't think believing in Jesus is enough. The demons didn't just believe in Jesus they really knew Him. But still they were in outer darkness.


I wanted to bring this up to universalists here, now is a good opportunity.

How does that fit with the scripture you often quote about no man can say Jesus is Lord without the holy spirit?
Some scholars say believing in Jesus' time wasn't the same as our definition. It also including acting to that belief.
Someone can believe, know and accept God wrote "You shall nor murder"; but obviously the intention of that command wasn't just to know about that command but actually follow it by not murdering.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: hell as "something else", a metaphorical hell
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2012, 10:17:35 PM »
If you merely say "Jesus is Lord" - of course anyone can do that, spirit or not. That's just head knowledge like the demons.
If you say "Jesus is Lord" because you are trusting God that he has saved you and given you his spirit as the "proof" or seal, then you have head and heart knowledge.
If you grow in the spirit and let God direct the work of your hands so that all you do is for Christ, then you have head, heart and hands.
Hands symbolizing the debt of love (love being an action verb) as further proof We are indwelt by God.
I believe the theif on the cross was the only one that had no "good works" to lay before Christ. He did however tell the other thief the basic gospel. (We've done wrong, we can't save ourselves, only God in Christ can save us)

He (Jesus) was wounded for our transgressions(sins), by his stripes we are healed. The Father laid on Him the iniguity of us all. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin.
But I digress. In England, farmers would say they were "putting their potatoes 'in hell' for the winter." It simply meant they were burying them. When Jesus was buried he was 'in hell'
If bible dictionaries are correct, Hell is "the unseen world of the dead." By that standard, EVERYONE goes to hell. So if you tell someone to "go to hell" you are telling them to die. You are not telling them to "go be eternally tortured."
Of course, it is serious sin to tell anyone to go to hell or even say, "I wish you were dead." I'm guilty on both counts from my past.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 10:26:55 PM by ded2daworld »
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"