Hard Times in America

[Molly]

I don't think I would blame it on God, since men are doing it on purpose.  It's all part of a grand plan that has been unfolding over the last century.

Seems to me it's playing out as intended.  If you want to blame someone, blame yourself.

  <---value of dollar today compared with 1913 dollar.

[eaglesway]

I think greed and corruption on a worldwide scale is sort of the last gasp of the Babylon system for sure. God is shaking it. He defends the poor. I also think that just as Jesus spoke out in specific terms concerning the unrighteous dominion of the leaders of that time, we ought to speak out as well. Problem is, todays professing Christian is often so religious and indifferent to the suffering of others- after all, they are all going to hell anyway- that it is like a clanging cymbal (or crashing trash can lids).

(Psa 82:1-8)
God takes His stand in His own congregation; He judges in the midst of the rulers. How long will you judge unjustly And show partiality to the wicked?

Vindicate the weak and fatherless; Do justice to the afflicted and destitute. Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

They do not know nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. "Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes."

Arise, O God, judge the earth! For it is You who possesses all the nations.

(Isa 32:1-6)
Behold, a king will reign righteously And princes will rule justly. Each will be like a refuge from the wind And a shelter from the storm, Like streams of water in a dry country, Like the shade of a huge rock in a parched land.

Then the eyes of those who see will not be blinded, And the ears of those who hear will listen. The mind of the hasty will discern the truth, And the tongue of the stammerers will hasten to speak clearly.

No longer will the fool be called noble, Or the rogue be spoken of as generous. For a fool speaks nonsense, And his heart inclines toward wickedness: To practice ungodliness and to speak error against the LORD, To keep the hungry person unsatisfied And to withhold drink from the thirsty.

(Isa 32:15-18)
Until the Spirit is poured out upon us from on high, And the wilderness becomes a fertile field, And the fertile field is considered as a forest.

Then justice will dwell in the wilderness And righteousness will abide in the fertile field. And the work of righteousness will be peace, And the service of righteousness, quietness and confidence forever.

Then my people will live in a peaceful habitation, And in secure dwellings and in undisturbed resting places;

[Molly]

I think greed and corruption on a worldwide scale is sort of the last gasp of the Babylon system for sure. God is shaking it.

Do you think those who run the world are blindsided by this?  Or did they design it?

If the Babylon system falls but revives itself [with a new world currency/ or basket of currencies, for instance], would that surprise you?

Surely it is an ambitious, some might even say insane, desire to want to conquer the world.  But, never before in the history of the world, has such a desire been so close to fulfillment.

It's as close as the desire for immortality is to fulfillment by the medical sciences.

God will do something amazing, for sure.  But, this is being done by men.

[noname]

Then justice will dwell in the wilderness And righteousness will abide in the fertile field. And the work of righteousness will be peace, And the service of righteousness, quietness and confidence forever.

Then my people will live in a peaceful habitation, And in secure dwellings and in undisturbed resting places;

Beautiful picture those verses paint eaglesway, thanks for quoting them!

Molly, yes men are in "control" of this Babylon system thinking themselves very clever...but God will eventually illustrate to man his folly, by trumping the repressive system with His Kingdom...I think most of us must learn the difference, and really WANT God's way in the end...God will not force it upon us, we will cry out for his justice and righteousness me thinks

this reminds me of the lyrics of a Bob Marley song (small axe)...especially the verses:

Why boasteth thyself
Oh, evil men
Playing smart
And not being clever?
I said, you're working iniquity
To achieve vanity (if a-so a-so)
But the goodness of Jah, Jah
I-dureth for-I-ver

So if you are the big tree
We are the small axe
Ready to cut you down (well sharp)
To cut you down

These are the words
Of my master, keep on tellin' me
No weak heart
Shall prosper
And whosoever diggeth a pit
Shall fall in it, fall in it
And whosoever diggeth a pit
Shall fall in it (... fall in it)

If you are the big tree, let me tell you that
We are the small axe, sharp and ready
Ready to cut you down (well sharp)
To cut you down

(To cut you down)

(To cut you down)

These are the words
Of my master, tellin' me that
No weak heart
Shall prosper
And whosoever diggeth a pit
Shall fall in it, uh, bury in it
And whosoever diggeth a pit
Shall bury in it, uh (... bury in it)

If you are the big, big tree
We are the small axe
Ready to cut you down (well sharp)
To cut you down
If you are the big, big tree, let me tell you that
We are the small axe
Ready to cut you down (well sharp)
To cut you down
Sharpened ...

[eaglesway]

When Moses was a baby, the enemy put it in the heart of the men in control to slay all the first born male children, under the age of two I think it was, because he knew the deliverer was coming. When Jesus was born he put it in the heart of Herod to do the same thing again, "behold, Rachel weeping for her children....." 

    I think men think they are in control, and by whatever means the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience ascertains what he knows (obviously only partial knowledge)- he motivates them through lust to pursue his goals- "to steal, kill and destroy." However God is, and always has been the pro-actor. Satan is the reactor. God determines the boundaries of men and the times of their lives and the administration of the times and the seasons(their is a time and a season for every purpose under heaven)- as He says to Pharoah, "I raised you up so that I might demonstrate My glory upon you."

    When He says , "Yet once more will I shake all that can be shaken till only that which cannot be shaken remains"(Heb 12:12-29) it means a lot of things on many levels, but it definitely applies to the shaking of this kosmos, this aion and their systems.

    So,  (I can be so long winded some times) to reply to Molly's question, I believe men do it on purpose, "evil men and seducers will wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." They do it because they are ruled by the prince of this kosmos, the god of this age.

    The Lord however laughs at their devices, "for he catches the crafty in their craftiness and makes fools of the wise". In vain have the rulers of this world gathered together against the Lord and His anointed."I have enthroned my holy one upon Mt.Zion". They gathered around the holy city under Jehoshaphat. They gathered around the holy city under Hezekiah. "Arise O Lord to thy dwelling place, thou and the ark of thy strength..... let Thy preists be clothed with righteousness and Thy godly ones sing for joy.....To bind their kings and nobles(principalities and powers in fetters of iron and chains of bronze." God dispelled them supernaturally.

    I think that the Lord will raise up a standard("deliverers shall ascend Mt Zion"- Obadiah) again, like the giant messenger of Rev 10 or the woman clothed with the sun in Rev 12, or the lamp upon the Lampstand, as in Zechariah 3 (Joshua and Zerrubabel, two anointed ones/two witnesses). However it manifests it will be vastly different from what we are seeing now and His testimony will be in it and all men will see it.  Then the prince of this world will surround the city set on the hill(whatever form it takes), heavenly Zion, "city of God"(the Bride and her Sons) again and speak blasphemies against God and every so-called god etc..

    It is the glory of God to hide a matter, it is the glory of man to ferret it out. The Lord will reign in righteousness from Zion. All flesh will see it together. I think we declare this testimony in every generation and stand back to see the salvation of God, till Zion be established a glory in all the earth.

Mic 4:2  And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

(Hag 2:4-9)
Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, saith the LORD; and be strong, O Joshua, son of Josedech, the high priest; and be strong, all ye people of the land, saith the LORD, and work: for I am with you, saith the LORD of hosts: According to the word that I covenanted with you when ye came out of Egypt, so my spirit remaineth among you: fear ye not. For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land; And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts. The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts. The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.


As a prophet(in the sense that all believers are prophets) I feel compelled to cry out against the wickedness of Babylon at times,in simple terms and in heavenly terms. To point towards Zion, to "walk round about her and tell the towers thereof....that I may tell it to the generation to come(Ps 48)". Her justice, her bounty, her glorious heights- "the place of the dwelling of the soles of My feet".

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto death.....for the testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of prophecy.