Author Topic: Hard Times in America  (Read 1981 times)

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Offline Raggedy Anne

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Hard Times in America
« on: November 22, 2009, 01:24:54 PM »
You know times have grown difficult when in America, people cannot afford to be buried. 
I don't know if the mainstream T.V. talks about these things because I don't tune in.
But I've had Detroit on my heart lately for some reason.  I know no one who lives there,
but I think about the poor being out in the cold and hungry this winter and it makes me sad.

Unburied bodies tell the tale of Detroit a city in despair
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6926247.ece

_____________________________________________________________________

And I have a question about giving which I would welcome people's opinions on:

If you were going to give a sum of money for helping the homeless, would you always
give to your local area foodbank, local homeless shelter, or would you consider giving some or
all you could to a city that you think is more needy?  I sometimes find it difficult to decide where
to give because there are needs on every side.
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline Molly

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2009, 01:45:13 PM »
You can thank Clinton-Bush-Obama for their Nafta/Cafta programs.

America's industrial base is being dismantled, sinking the middle class into oblivion.

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2009, 01:46:59 PM »
I was searching for the audio with Michelle talking on it (which may be available somewhere on the site).
I didn't find it yet, but this one seems appropriate for this thread:

Jesus wept. - (Audio message by Gary Amirault)
http://www.tentmaker.org/audio/audio_podcasts/jesus_wept.mp3
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2009, 01:47:49 PM »
If you were going to give a sum of money for helping the homeless, would you always
give to your local area foodbank, local homeless shelter, or would you consider giving some or
all you could to a city that you think is more needy?  I sometimes find it difficult to decide where
to give because there are needs on every side.[/color]
I would give it directly to the homeless. (and I do)
So many organizations are only there make a living for themselfs instead of the homeless.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2009, 01:51:44 PM »
If you were going to give a sum of money for helping the homeless, would you always
give to your local area foodbank, local homeless shelter, or would you consider giving some or
all you could to a city that you think is more needy?  I sometimes find it difficult to decide where
to give because there are needs on every side.[/color]
I would give it directly to the homeless. (and I do)
So many organizations are only there make a living for themselfs instead of the homeless.

Thanks, WW.  I sometimes go that route as well.  Though I don't think all the charities are skimming money for themseleves.  I think some of the charities are able to do more with my dollars than I can.  Feed The Children comes to mind because they get matching funds from corporations who are looking for a tax write off and they do feed a lot of hungry folk all over the globe.    I suppose I was asking if it is a bad principle to give money to a city that is not the city I live in if I can't give an equal amount to both.
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2009, 02:18:48 PM »
I suppose I was asking if it is a bad principle to give money to a city that is not the city I live in if I can't give an equal amount to both.
Why would that be bad? Your money has the most effect where it's most needed. And why the limit is a city? Why not a county? State? Continent? Or... your own street where all houses have a helicopter pad?

Most organisations I know only line their own pockets. Not saying there aren't any that do good thing. And in such cases your $ can possibly buy more food for the homeless/poor.
But as I said many organisations only line their own pockets. And you likely know more about the honesty of the organisation in your own city as those in a city a 1000 miles away. That's also something to consider IMO.

Quote
city that you think is more needy
You should only make such considerations if you are going to donate a few million $. Your donation is perhaps enough for 3 meals. Even the most wealthy city has 3 hungry mouths to feed.
A wealthy city doesn't mean that some don't share in that wealth.....
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2009, 02:24:35 PM »
One small note about giving directly to the homeless: Be aware why the person is homeless. Just bad luck etc then you can give him/her some cash. But if it's an addict personally I would give food and drinks. Cash goes directly into the addiction.
That said I think such people can't be helped. Besides by intensive pro. help.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2009, 02:26:43 PM »
One small note about giving directly to the homeless: Be aware why the person is homeless. Just bad luck etc then you can give him/her some cash. But if it's an addict personally I would give food and drinks. Cash goes directly into the addiction.
That said I think such people can't be helped. Besides by intensive pro. help.
Shelters in your own city are a good recipient of donations, especially in the winter and at the holidays.  They serve women and children homeless as well.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2009, 03:02:40 PM »
If you know first hand that your $ goes to the poor and not 70% to freeloaders behind the scene (not uncommon) then indeed by all means donate your cash to that organisation.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2009, 06:00:40 PM »
 :cloud9: That's really terrible. I had read something similar about Detroit. Nafta destroyed us; IMO the companies should not have been allowed to leave, or if they left, then we should have refused to buy their goods. It's sad that people clamor and offer all sorts of concessions, over wanting FOREIGN car companies to build in their county now. At least they provide jobs to Americans.

Sad to say, but I think things will get much worse before they get better. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2009, 07:01:20 PM »
Sad to say, but I think things will get much worse before they get better. Blessings....
They will get better. But not as good as they were.
It's quite simple to see. During recession many earn less. Or they are missing their yearly raise. But that you will never get back.
What's the inflation in the USA in good and bad times?
Then the second question is what is the average raise of the monthly income?
Even that simple calculation will likely show things go kinda downhill. And then I didn't even take all kind of new taxes (like carbon tax) into account.
And as long as the FED exists things won't improve.
Just my  :2c: <-- worth much less as 10 years ago.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sparrow

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2009, 07:28:19 PM »
You know times have grown difficult when in America, people cannot afford to be buried. 
I don't know if the mainstream T.V. talks about these things because I don't tune in.
But I've had Detroit on my heart lately for some reason.  I know no one who lives there,
but I think about the poor being out in the cold and hungry this winter and it makes me sad.

Unburied bodies tell the tale of Detroit a city in despair
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6926247.ece

_____________________________________________________________________

And I have a question about giving which I would welcome people's opinions on:

If you were going to give a sum of money for helping the homeless, would you always
give to your local area foodbank, local homeless shelter, or would you consider giving some or
all you could to a city that you think is more needy?  I sometimes find it difficult to decide where
to give because there are needs on every side.


A lump sum to one charity is always awesome. Another way is to give a little to as many charities as you can, as often as you can. The reason I say this is because it keeps them in your mind, it keeps the many different problems in our world in your mind. This helps you to remember to pray for them, and also so you keep donating a little to them. Those smaller steady donations are sometimes the backbones of many charities. Either way, whatever you give is going to be appreciated. There is so much need out there. I read that too about Detroit. I think they definitely need all the help they can get. I did just read this today, though....so there's a little glimmer of hope:

Nov. 21, 2009.....
Local philanthropists have donated $8,000 to help to bury the dead. In the past month, Mr Samuels (chief investigator of the mortuary) has been able to bury 11 people. The number of unburied is now down to 55.


God bless you, Anne.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2009, 07:38:44 PM »
If you know first hand that your $ goes to the poor and not 70% to freeloaders behind the scene (not uncommon) then indeed by all means donate your cash to that organisation.

There are definitely good charities and bad charities. There are watchdog type places out there. I use this one: http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?keyword_list=world+vision&bay=search.results
It gives charities a rating, and also discloses all of their financial information.

Heres a review: http://www.rarebirdinc.com/news/articles/charity_navigator.html

Keep in mind, that fundraising and office expenses are a must. I remember when I worked for a non-profit, we would get some donations that had a note attached "I don't want this money going for office expenses!" And it's like, well thanks so much but y'know.. without the office or without the fundraising we wouldn't BE HERE in the first place! As long as the office/fundraising expenses are relatively small compared to what is going out to directly help the cause.

"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2009, 08:43:51 PM »
I know of some extreme stories. Here charities for Africa are/where quite popular.
You know fund raising shows on television. Lots of black babies with flies on their eyes.
Before the money left the TV studio it was already halved. Then friend$ of friend$ were hired to manage the spending of the remaining cash. Another dozen of pockets lined. The trucker friend$ will bring the stuff to Africa. But first buy the stuff from other friend$
Not to mention batches of medication that basicly labeled as toxic waste by our healthcare standards.
After all our friend$ at big pharma had over-stock overly big heart$ so they helped out too.

Amnesty International is one of those example. Their headquarters is in the center of the city. Rent for a square feet is about the same as for a whole office on the edge of town. But that's ofcourse not a 17th century building...

That's why I prefer giving to the homeless outside of the supermarket.
I know that way the African baby with flies on her/his eyes gets nothing :sigh:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2009, 08:47:45 PM »
Thanks for the link, Sparrow.

a~
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2009, 02:32:44 AM »
     In my area there is a local ministry that is very effective in distributing help to the hungry..... I am not sure how easy it is to find that everywhere, but finding good stewards and giving into there care is a good way. Also, in my area, new churches are still rising up against the sky, like dressed up harlots in the streets seeking passers by, "Come, the master of the house is away, let us take our fill of love till dawn." They mortgage the giving of the people in the pews against the needs of the people on the streets-and even against the needs of the poor in their own midst. Lord have mercy, raise up Joseph. Demand of these evil stewards an accounting and raise up men "full of faith and the Holy Ghost" to steward the misspent resources of the kingdom.


 
   
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Offline Cardinal

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2009, 02:55:58 AM »
 :cloud9: AMEN
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Gab

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2009, 05:31:18 AM »
The two things I was going to say about charity have already been said:

1. If you're going to donate money to an organization, then make sure that it's not one where a lot of money goes towards administrative or other expenses that do not benefit those whom the organization is intended to help.  The American Red Cross is a good example of an organization that does stellar work in this area - over 90% of every dollar received by donors is used to provide services those for whom the organization was founded.  If you're in America, the link sparrow provided is an excellent resource for this.

2. If you're going to donate money directly to someone in need, then if it's at all possible, don't give them money.  For example, if they need food, offer to buy them food.  This is for much the same reason as the above: it ensures that the money we give is doing what we would like it to do.  Charity is not for us, but to others - therefore, we should not give just to make ourselves feel better, but rather we should ensure that when we give, we truly are helping those in need.

As for which is better to donate to, I don't think it could be said that one is "better" in an objective sense.  If you give help directly to someone in need, then the efficiency is guaranteed to be higher than money given to charitable organizations, given that 100% of the money spent goes to those in need.  On the other hand, however, the reason why charitable organizations do not maintain that level of efficiency is because some framework of organization is necessary to ensure the proper dissemination of services to those in need.  In short, it basically depends on the scope - you can help a single person better by directly giving them help, but you can help many different people better simultaneously by instead giving to a charitable organization that is known to be honest and trustworthy.

And, of course, you don't have to choose - you can always help both individuals and charitable organizations at the same time.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 05:41:21 AM by Gab »

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2009, 07:36:26 AM »
I grew up in Detroit, I read that article, it inspired this song.

Heartache City

I went down to Heartache City
And I walked those streets alone
Then I laid down with the ghosts of ten thousand lost souls
Everybody keeps movin on

Everybody is movin on
Cept the bodies we leave behind
They are walkin on streets that are not made of gold
An it's drivin me out of my mind

Yea, it's drivin me out of my mind
It's drivin me out of my mind
I lost ten thousand friends I may never see again
Heartache City you are so unkind

Away O
So far away O
Everybody keeps movin on
Yea, Everybody's movin on
Thats why I'm singin this sad song
In the mornin they will leave me behind

I went down to Heartache City
I dreamed I bought a new pair of shoes
They were made in Pakistan and I just could'nt understand
Why there's nothin for me to do

Yea, I went down to Heartache City
Laid my head on a pillow of stone
Then they put me in a bag an I kno that is a drag
But everybody must keep movin on


The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline Molly

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2009, 07:48:40 AM »
Oh man.  That is such a sad song.

We could stop this, you know.

Only buy American.  Fire Congressmen who send jobs out of the country,

Boycott ALL companies that use foreign employees--like techies from India.

What good is it going to do to be able to buy cheap junk at Walmart when nobody has a job to buy anything, anymore?

Give tax breaks to small business.

A pox on their North American Union.

If only we could take back our country...

Is it too late?

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2009, 08:06:01 AM »
Idunno...you say that stuff and lots of people understand, more than you might think, but to DO something- well thats another thing. Things like the American Tea Party may be a step in the right direction. Maybe its because the salt has lost its savor- there isn't enough saltiness in the people of God to preserve the land.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline jabcat

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2009, 09:20:29 AM »
Good song.  I actually have hope.  I think more people are seeing things.  Either way, God's in control.  I don't know how bad things will get before He steps in and makes things right, but He will.  My  :2c:.
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

noname

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2009, 09:30:30 AM »
Anne,
what happens in America is happening all over the wolrd, this collapse of our worldly monetary system...don't you guys think this is actually the work of God?
this system originated in Babylon (ie usary system)...don't you guys think that God is using the greed of some to let it all implode upon itself?
maybe after that we'd have a system of greater equality?

your thoughts?

Livelystone

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2009, 10:45:45 AM »
America was the most blessed country on earth

Then it sold itself to usury and the Federal Reserve

Brought in abortion

Kicked God, Prayer and His Ten Commandments out of everything possible....... heck we have members here who don't want the Ten Commandments to be over them  :sigh:

Decided by race and religion who would get the lions share of foreign aid and who would not......... those who did not deserve any aid we dropped bombs on  :thumbdown:

Bottom line is the middle class american citizen voted in the leaders who brought you the above..... that made them responsible

Middle class america deserves to see their wealth taken from them and given to someone else....... it is God's Will !!!

Maybe next time around if "Christian America" ever gets one they will not be so quick to throw out God's Law

Blessings

Doug

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Hard Times in America
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2009, 02:02:28 PM »
Anne,
what happens in America is happening all over the wolrd, this collapse of our worldly monetary system...don't you guys think this is actually the work of God?
this system originated in Babylon (ie usary system)...don't you guys think that God is using the greed of some to let it all implode upon itself?
maybe after that we'd have a system of greater equality?

your thoughts?

Yes, noname - I do believe that God is allowing the whole worldly system implode upon itself.
However, that is not a reason NOT to have pity on those who are suffering.    I fully expected
this economic fall to come.  But I still hate to see people suffer.  And I don't think it is right
to point fingers and say (because of this or that person's sin all these things have come upon the land)...something Pat Robertson and his ilk constantly do... pick out gays or whatever and try to scapegoat them as being the sole cause of our displeasure.  When God's judgment is upon the land, we should examine ourselves, not everyone outside of ourselves.  I see a great deal of self-righteousness among professing Christians. 



Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.