Author Topic: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can  (Read 1151 times)

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Offline Seth

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Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« on: July 10, 2009, 05:54:37 AM »
One thing we hear very often, is that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The Bible says so. But what I want to talk about is what that means for us. I was talking in another thread about Romans 7 and the topic came up. I thought it was a different issue, so I thought would post my thoughts on it and see what you all think. Some people apart from this forum, teachers of the Bible have said that it is not possible for us to yet inherit the Kingdom of God because as the Bible says: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 15:50-52
I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.


This is speaking of time that we hope for, by which we are changed and caught up with Christ to the heavenlies. This verse, to many people is often used to show that we cannot inherit the kingdom of God now while we are in our physical form, which is to say we cannot be in the Kingdom now. But we do see some other scriptures that suggest we can.

1 Peter 2:9-10
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Colossians 1:12-13
giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light.
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,

Ephesians 2:5-8
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.


So what do we do with scriptures that tell us that we have not yet inherited the kingdom, and others that say we ARE seated together in the heavenlies. Here is how I understand it: we are not our own flesh and blood. Romans 7 is a great chapter because, in great detail, Paul breaks down everything about us, and determines who we really are. One thing he says is that when our minds warred with the flesh, when we were under the law, the "inner man" wished to do good, but the sin in the flesh held him captive. So, when we sinned, it wasn't US who did it, but the sin in us. This is not to say that we were not held accountable, but that there were workings beyond our power which were apart, or DISTINGUISHABLE from who WE really are.

We are not our own flesh, but we are souls. Everything about who we are is not in our toenails, or hair follicles, or skin, or muscles, or even the brain. It's all in our mind, who we are, our emotions, our personalities etc, it's all in our mind. This is why we are IN the flesh but are also distinguishable from it. Here is what Jesus says about inheriting the Kingdom:

John 3:3-6
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


Paul says this:

Romans 14:17-18
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.


If you understand that definition, and lay hold of the fact that man is not his own flesh, then you can understand why we can inherit the kingdom now, and why we will inherit the kingdom, to a greater degree, in the future. If we say that since flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom, that it means we must only inherit the kingdom in the future, do we say that we cannot have "righteousness peace and joy in the Spirit" now, but later? If so, then Jesus died for nothing.

In Romans 8, Paul says a VERY critical thing that ties it together. He says "You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if it so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you." This is possible, again, because you are not your own flesh. What it means is that your MINDS are transferred actively to the Kingdom (the Spirit) upon faith, by which you are seated in heavenly places, even while still made flesh on earth. However you have not received the full inheritance as evidenced in 1 Corinthians 15. So, while your minds are not in the flesh, but in God, your bodies still wait to be changed in an instant. Flesh and blood can NEVER inherit the kingdom, which is why your minds (not meaning your physical brain) are first removed from flesh, then the process is complete when you receive a new heavenly body which waits for us in Heaven.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 06:34:25 AM »
Wow.
Unbelievably timely.
That's all I can say, Seth.
Just unbelievably timely.
 :HeartThrob:
Thank you, brother.
GREAT stuff.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Molly

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 06:36:51 AM »
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


--Col 1


We have been given his flesh, also,  not just his mind and heart.



19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

 20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;


--Heb 10



Offline reFORMer

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2009, 08:11:46 AM »
Good point Molly! Part of the problem is stopping too soon in the quote from 1 Co 15.  Go on to vs. 53:  "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."  What is "corruptible" is the susceptibility of the flesh to decay. The body and mind with death at work in it must put on the deathlessness.  Flesh and blood may not inherit the kingdom of God; but, you can subject it to yourself. You must come to the priority of Spirit in your personality. It is not bodiless spirit. It is the whole man:  spirit, soul and body God is saving.

1 Corinthians 15:49-54 (AV)...
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

We are to bear the image of the earthly as a vessel for the manifest presence of God, walking about according to spirit and not disposed to the fleshy nature of this earthly house.  The body is subject to the Kingdom of me and my spirit and mind disposed to the spirit is subject to God.

I think a lot of theology is still influenced by Greek mysticism that entered the developing Institutional Church in the days Constantine provided money for a "Christian" priesthood that had never previously existed.  Those trained in Greko/Roman rhetoric were hired and they brought with them Platonic philosophy.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 08:19:36 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Molly

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2009, 08:41:26 AM »
[For this corruptible must]




"put on" [incorruption]
G1746
ἐνδύω
enduō
en-doo'-o
From G1722 and G1416 (in the sense of sinking into a garment); to invest with clothing (literally or figuratively): - array, clothe (with), endue, have (put) on.



9And he said, Who art thou? And she answered, I am Ruth thine handmaid: spread therefore thy skirt over thine handmaid; for thou art a near kinsman.

--Ruth 3

Offline Redlettervoice

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2009, 05:25:52 PM »
Good point Molly! Part of the problem is stopping too soon in the quote from 1 Co 15.  Go on to vs. 53:  "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."  What is "corruptible" is the susceptibility of the flesh to decay. The body and mind with death at work in it must put on the deathlessness.  Flesh and blood may not inherit the kingdom of God; but, you can subject it to yourself. You must come to the priority of Spirit in your personality. It is not bodiless spirit. It is the whole man:  spirit, soul and body God is saving.

1 Corinthians 15:49-54 (AV)...
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

We are to bear the image of the earthly as a vessel for the manifest presence of God, walking about according to spirit and not disposed to the fleshy nature of this earthly house.  The body is subject to the Kingdom of me and my spirit and mind disposed to the spirit is subject to God.

I think a lot of theology is still influenced by Greek mysticism that entered the developing Institutional Church in the days Constantine provided money for a "Christian" priesthood that had never previously existed.  Those trained in Greko/Roman rhetoric were hired and they brought with them Platonic philosophy.

good post..........studying now on that.  The "body' is the purchased
possession.  Other lords have had dominion over it.  He is come to
redeem His body.  Which temple ye are.  He is able to change this
vile body.  We have a NEW BODY in the heavens that needs no redeeming.  The "body" is not for "fornication" but "for" the Lord.
Present your "bodies" ........etc. which is your reasonable sacrifice.
Follow the Lord into the PLACE where He went, Heb.13 for the "bodies"
of the beasts in the other place are "burned."  He went OUTSIDE the
Camp.  He suffered OUTSIDE the Camp.  What do you think that
suffering was? Seperation from those IN THE Camp?  There is NO '
burning in the place mentioned here.  There is POWER over the fire.
There is no hurt in the second death.  There is POWER over the Second
death.  This corruptible has put on incorruptible.  Not immortality
but incorruptible.  Maybe I will post all my studies on this.  They are
so new and God forbid that I confuse anyone. Just bits and pieces
coming to me. The Overcoming Sons of God who "were" waiting'
for the redemption of their "bodies" seems to receive that in the
we shall not all sleep. 

Offline Molly

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2009, 05:56:33 PM »
Quote from: RLV
Maybe I will post all my studies on this.

Yes, please please please... :bgdance:

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2009, 06:14:14 PM »
RLV,
I, too, am anxiously waiting.
We must keep watch.

Offline Seth

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2009, 06:50:57 PM »
Basically, my point was that entering into the Kingdom has nothing to do with our own flesh and blood, and that we can enter the kingdom now because we are not in the flesh if the Spirit is in us. And yet, because we don't take it with us, our bodies will be changed when it is time for the redemption of the purchased possession, to complete our entry into the kingdom. I don't relegate entering into the kingdom as being only a future event as some do. I hope I communicated that.

Offline Seth

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2009, 06:56:03 PM »
Wow.
Unbelievably timely.
That's all I can say, Seth.
Just unbelievably timely.
 :HeartThrob:
Thank you, brother.
GREAT stuff.

Cool, had you been thinking about these things too recently?

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2009, 08:14:30 PM »
Jesus saying the kingdom doesn't come with observation doesn't mean it can't be observed. Just as you can't train a dog to be a little boy, neither can a human be trained to be a child of God. You must be born of the Spirit. When that happens it is because God becomes a manifest reality to you. Jesus says it is within you. Then you can learn of it. You can accurately teach concerning the kingdom and be a witness. Like Jesus says, "After that the Holy Ghost is come upon you, you shall be witnesses unto me..." No indoctrination (a mental observation) and no disciplined path of anything (observing with behavior) bring about the kingdom of God. It comes not with observation. That does not mean it does not happen.

What is now inward becomes outwardly expressed. From Elijah being answered with fire to Jesus feeding the multitudes, the kingdom of God manifests. One day it will be so displayed that His many membered body, "from Whose face earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them," (Rv 20:11) shall be reigning in all the earth." (Rv 5:10)

20 Now, being inquired of by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God is coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with scrutiny.
21 Neither shall they be declaring 'Lo! here!' or 'Lo! there!' for lo! the kingdom of God is inside of you."
22 Yet He said to His disciples, "Coming will be days when you will be yearning to perceive one of the days of the Son of Mankind, and you shall not see it.
23 And they shall be declaring to you, 'Lo! there!' or 'Lo! here!' You may not come away, nor yet should you be pursuing.
24 For even as the lightning, flashing out from here under heaven to there under heaven, is shining, thus will be the Son of Mankind in His day.

In the fullness of time, whether for individuals that mature sufficiently or when it is time for all humanity, the inner will become the outer. First acquire the mastery over your own selves.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Molly

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2009, 08:35:47 PM »
Quote
24 For even as the lightning, flashing out from here under heaven to there under heaven, is shining, thus will be the Son of Mankind in His day.

I take this to mean that He will appear everywhere at once, some day, manifesting fully in his brothers.

It is my hope, anyway, seeing Jesus everywhere I look.



Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2009, 10:15:24 PM »
AND the parable of the ten virgins tells us to keep watch for WHEN.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2009, 02:55:51 AM »
Wow.
Unbelievably timely.
That's all I can say, Seth.
Just unbelievably timely.
 :HeartThrob:
Thank you, brother.
GREAT stuff.

Cool, had you been thinking about these things too recently?

Yes. I have quite a bit to say on this...
because there are several things you touched on that I have been thinking about a lot these past 6 months or so. Will be back later tonight (or tomorrow) once I've got all my thoughts together.
thanks for posting this, Seth.
sparrow
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2009, 01:18:33 AM »
Well, I guess what I want to post is this:

Quote
God says the difficulties of our life on earth are preparing us, and achieving for us an everlasting glory that surpasses all comparisons.

And Hebrews 11:6 tells us "without faith it is impossible to please God". Our challenge is to join God as He leads our life; it is by we believing what He says that we begin to see with His eyes. We do not see Him, or Truth, or Reality, or our own life with physical eyes alone, but with eyes of faith we see clearly, and it is the eyes of faith that will bring us into Eternal Life.


I believe that by seeing the unseen, which is eternal as opposed to just seeing the seen, which is temporary, our minds CAN be seated in the heavenlies. I think that fear is a big component that keeps our minds from entering the kingdom of God.

Fear and fizzy faith.

"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Flesh and Blood Cannot Inherit the Kingdom....But We Can
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2009, 01:20:30 AM »
sorry, that's not all I had to say.
Seth, your original post really resonated with me... all of it.
I guess I just can't seem to put into words why.
maybe one of these days..
thanks again for posting what you posted.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.