Experiencing the Tabernacle

[claypot]

Nathan, you're killing me......and that's a good thing!!!!

I want to input more and I will but I fear what I will offer will be dross compared to the good stuff you are putting forth but don't worry, I will wax forth anyway!

The complexity of the tabernacle is so much like the complexity of a person. There are many facets to a person as there are in Scripture. I find this fascinating.

Revelation 1
10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,  11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.  12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
 13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.  14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;  15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.  16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.  17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:  18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
 19Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;  20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

In the Spirit on the Lords day........I'm alive, I've been born!

Heard behind me, write in a book.......I start thinking, storing things in my brain!

Send to 7 churches.......From my brain to the rest of my body!

Saw 7 gold candlesticks......Survival mode kicks in and to survive God must be center!

I saw life and it is amazing, clothed like nothing else. Nature, animals, light, flowers, insects, air, wind, fire and so on. Nothing is clothed like these!

Got to run.....

cp

[Nathan]

For me . .the purpose of sharing what God has revealed is not so that you think I'm holier, it's not to become a revelation to Nathan "about" Christ . . . nor is it to be something that gives me, or you goose bumps and make you gasp in excitement . . .many of those things do happen . .but the purpose . .again, from my POV the purpose of me sharing what I see is to ignite, inspire . .to encourage others to enter into this wonderful house that God built and Christ has prepared so that where he is, we may also be.  The more you comment, the more we all can benefit.   Yeah, I started the thread . .but only to initiate the mighty Mo . . . to get the ball rolling in revelating with the family.  It's in all of us . . .all we need to do is exercise what's there. 

That's why I love the idea of revelating . .no matter how much you see, God always reveals even more through the eyes of others as they receive your piece to the puzzle and add theirs and it just keeps growing and growing . . .another thing about the kingdom of vision . . . everything is connected to everything else .. . you can "start" in Genesis . . .but you'll seldom finish there . .in fact, it never really finishes.  In my pastoral schooling, they actually teach you how to preach . . . they approach a sermon like a cook does a recipe.  There's an opening remark that overviews where you're going to be going . . .the text from which you are going to dissect . . .add in a personal experience . .not because that's the way God intended, but because you'll come across much more genuine to the congregation . . .it has a beginning, middle and an end . . . with an altar call of course for all the sinners going straight to hell . . .   

But when revelating . . .it's a continual thing.  It's like you going through your day . .the night comes, you go to sleep, get up the next morning and "continue" going through "another" day . . .you never have to re-evaluate the actities you did on your previous day before you're able to do any activities "this" day.  Revelating is not a new recipe of delivering a sermon . .or a manufactured order of thinking . . . it's simply enjoying the fact that your personality is directed and ordained by God.  It was in your dna for you to have your unique quirks.  I tend to get loud when I get lathered up . .and I cry a lot . . that stupid book "the Shack" . . .I was a driveling idiot when reading that thing.

I'm also transparent . . .when something new comes in, I'm terrible at holding on to it for any length of time.  When I did my first "nontraditional" teaching on Revelation, I transcribed a 34 tape series done by Randall Worley . . . he said that when he received his personal experience with Revelation . . .he was a Pastor and he held on to it for 10 years before sharing any of it with the church . . . I can't imagine holding on to anything more than 10 days let alone ten years.  I hate doing anything in the church that must be behind closed doors .. . we're a family and as such, there should be no reason for keeping secrets from each other.  Granted, there are probably a few exceptions to the rule, but for me . .very few.

Okay, I'm done rambling . . .next post . .back in this Revelation passage . . .

[Nathan]

14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;  15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 

Head and hair . . .mind and thoughts . . .pure . .white . . .as wool . . a sheeps covering.  Interesting that his eyes, tongue and feet were of fire.  The word of life ignites us . . .the eyes don't see death, only life, just his very gaze purifies the hearts of those he loves.  Okay . . .feet like fine brass . . .that's the same material the altar of sacrifice is made of . . .as if burned in a furnace . . what does the heat of a furnace do to metal?  Does it not bring up the dross to the surface and purify the metal?  The purpose of the altar of sacrifice is the same as the laver . .the same as the lake of fire . .it's to purify the people IN PREPARATION for them to enter into the tabernacle . . .to enter into God's house . . .to enter into GOD. 


16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.  17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:  18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

There are the seven stars . .they are in his "right" hand.  The seven stars are the seven messengers (messenger is the definition for the word angel).  Seven . .the number of completion . .stars . . .again, the messengers . .and with God . . .it's not the messenger that gets the attention, but the message within them.  Their identity is "in" the "message".  The stars are prophets . . God's mouth piece . . .to the seven churches . .. this is speaking to those God has established and appointed to lead the churches . .the Pastors . .the evangelists, the prophets, apostles, the teachers . . the stars established.  A false prophet is a wandering star remember.  (Jude) And they are not in his "hand" but they are in his "right" hand . . . everything is said with purpose on purpose . . .my right hand is my authority . ..the stars of these churches are the authority of Christ . .kind of tough to swallow this when we look around and see all of the wife beaters at the pulpits in our generation today. 

Now just for the sake of comparison, I'm going to throw in verse 8 before you read verse 19.  You tell me what it is that John is writing . . .is it the past, present and future?  Or could it be something all together differnt?

8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty

 19Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 

This to me appears to be simply an instruction given to John not to document events for the natural realm, but instead, the unveiling of Christ in the spiritual realm. 

20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches

Okay, the over all point that I really wanted to make with all of this is look at the first place that God took John in this unveiling . . .he took him into the tabernacle . . .and he is showing him where the church is . . .someone asked "what am I"  Well, if this were a mall . . .this opening piece is a layout of that mall and on this map, there's a little red arrow pointing at the candlesticks in the temple and under the arrow would be the caption "YOU ARE HERE".

Why is the tabernacle so important?  Because it is the framework of Christ.  It holds the symbols of the redemption of Chirst in us.  It reveals where we are in him.  It shows us the end from our beginning.  There is another passage that shows the completion of this activity in the holy place that I'll throw out next. 

Oh . . .all right . . .I'll go ahead and say it . . ..

And I want to get into that . . .

[Cardinal]

  I can't imagine holding onto stuff for a great length of time, either. Every time He gives me something new, suddenly it's all I can see in the Word. I knew two pastors once, who when confronted by myself and a friend about there being no rapture, they both admitted to knowing that revelation, FOR 20 YEARS. We were both stunned at this confession of theirs, and one replied as to why he had kept silent, "You'll never build a big church that way."

I think this is where if you don't give out, and become stagnant, revelation comes less and less, because (from His point of view) what is the purpose if it's not going to be shared with the body to edify? Got to put those talents to good use, else He will take them and give them to the one who already is using them. Blessings....

[claypot]

Somebody had to have sat down and contemplated what in the world he or she was to come up with this kind of poetry! It all fits. A human being. No wonder the Bible is a best seller. If you own a car it is good to have a manual for it even if you never read it or rarely read it. It's the same with the Bible. Most don't read it but because it's about us and how we work they just got to have one just in case. Sure the Bible is about God too but again you got to see it from different angles and you got to admit that one angle is the people angle.

And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.  17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:  18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

The light which lights every man that comes into the world is in control always. Even though I use my God given powers to rebel and become as dead, this Power within gives me courage and life to continue on.

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty

 19Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 

Sounds like I'm talking to Zeek!

I can see someone sitting on a rock in the middle of a creek thinking and thinking and thinking. As things come to mind he logs them away. These things are things this person has used to live life and is using and will use.

cp

[Nathan]

Great feedback!  If I found out my Pastor was holding back . . .just to fill a church . . . don't that just make ya want to punch em???  It's true though . . .when I made the decision to leave the traditional walk for this one . . .I lost a third of the church . .and have been told by those nursing me into the new that I would also leave the church . . . not by my own choice, but by the denomination . .it's not a matter of "if" but "when".  I'm trying not to focus on that piece so much . . . some days are better than others, but so far, whenever I stir things up and make the waves . . .God seems to put up a standard around me from them . . .I'm learning that there are several pastors that are very hungry for more . . .they just don't know "what" it is they're hungry for more of.

Since those had left, others have come in and embraced even more where we are.  A pastor that has reached out to me when things got pretty rough, he  . . . kind of a long story really . . . we have monthly meetings in  our district . .consists of about 9 or 10 other pastors and their wives . . .and this year they decided to follow an agenda created by the pastors . .what is it they wanted to get out of these monthly meetings . . .turns out worship was one of the first things . . .so this pastor that reached out to me, asked me to lead the worship . .I was a little nervous about that beings that it was only 6 months ago that I moved out of the parsonage bracing myself to get kicked out.

But we did it  . .no planning which was also a little nerve wracking . . .I don't sing their songs anymore as we sing the ones we write ourselves.  But I still had the old stuff around so I brought it out.  It turned out to be a great time of worship . . . it all went pretty smooth and things flowed really well.  At the end . .. the pastor that invited me to lead announced to everyone there that they were going to begin having a Saturday night service where it was just going to be nothing but free worship . . .and he wants me to lead it . . . crazy huh.  What grieves me though is, his body has the talent to lead worship, but they don't really worship, they basically just sing songs.  And they can't just step out and dance or clap or just sing out words of joy as they come to us . . .he said his body wouldn't be comfortable doing that kind of thing, even though he himself is so hungry for it . .and loves to free worship . . .so to keep the sheep in their comfort zone . . .he refrains from to much emotion in the worship time.

I told him later  . . . I'd sang one of my own songs with them, had an overhead for it . . .my church has their favorites of one's we've written and there was one they really wanted me to sing at the other church and it was a pretty safe song so I did . .but I told the pastor later, if this worship goes to where he wants it to go . . .and I'm pretty sure it will . . .then I will be breaking out the more dimensional songs that may appear to be more controversial . . .they say stuff like . . .Heavenly Father, you're my lake of fire . . .and .  . . a day is as a thousand years, a thousand years is as a day, before there was Adam, before there was Eve, a pattern of rest was laid . . .

After our get together there, I did and do appreciate even more the place where God has brought my church family . . .such a great freedom and closeness to the Lord as he inspires worship to rise from us. 

OK. . .note to self . . .next post on the finished tabernacle . . .

[Molly]

I think a lot of people are just not comfortable with the jumping and clapping and shouting for joy in large groups.   Not to say that I don't do that sort of stuff all the time when by myself (if you were a fly on the wall) but I don't like being required to do it on command.  I do it when the Spirit moves me, which can be any time of the day or night, as he renews my mind, restores my soul.

The High Priests didn't do that sort of thing in the temple.

But, King David did, and those following him, as both priest and king, before the tent containing the recovered ark of the covenant.  So,yes, I could see it in that context.

[Cardinal]

  I was like that at first too, because I thought quiet and somber equated with reverence (and there is a time for that too). Then I read that we are to raise up holy hands and praise the Lord, and that God sent the "praisers" out before a battle. Now, if I feel the Spirit moving me, I don't care who's around.

My second date with my now husband, was a double date with a friend of mine who was equally "unfettered". We had gone to a movie and on a country road on the way home, a song came on that the anointing just flowed over me and I couldn't stay still. I told her to stop the car, and we got out and started praising and dancing before the Lord. Her boyfriend, told my stunned date, "You'll get used to it."

He had a big smile on his face eventually, and I said to him, "I don't need alcohol or drugs to have a great time, I've got God!" He said, "I can see that."

He never really did get used to it, LOL.......Blessings

[Cardinal]

  Nathan, can you explain what you mean about the 7 stars and the 5 fold. That one paragraph is not clear to me. Thanks, Card

[Nathan]

There are the seven stars . .they are in his "right" hand.  The seven stars are the seven messengers (messenger is the definition for the word angel).  Seven . .the number of completion . .stars . . .again, the messengers . .and with God . . .it's not the messenger that gets the attention, but the message within them.  Their identity is "in" the "message".  The stars are prophets . . God's mouth piece . . .to the seven churches . .. this is speaking to those God has established and appointed to lead the churches . .the Pastors . .the evangelists, the prophets, apostles, the teachers . . the stars established.  A false prophet is a wandering star remember.  (Jude) And they are not in his "hand" but they are in his "right" hand . . . everything is said with purpose on purpose . . .my right hand is my authority . ..the stars of these churches are the authority of Christ . .kind of tough to swallow this when we look around and see all of the wife beaters at the pulpits in our generation today.

This is going to wander off track just a bit, but I'll bring it back.

Jude
12 When these people eat with you in your fellowship meals commemorating the Lord's love, they are like dangerous reefs that can shipwreck you.[a] They are like shameless shepherds who care only for themselves. They are like clouds blowing over the land without giving any rain. They are like trees in autumn that are doubly dead, for they bear no fruit and have been pulled up by the roots. 13 They are like wild waves of the sea, churning up the foam of their shameful deeds. They are like wandering stars, doomed forever to blackest darkness.
 14 Enoch, who lived in the seventh generation after Adam, prophesied about these people. He said, "Listen! The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones

Stars are established in the heavens to illuminate light in the darkness of night . . . darkness of night for me is as Paul speaks of "seeing things darkly" it's someone without vision, without understanding and God establishes stars through which one can navigate murky waters.  The seven stars of Revelation for me are not about seven people or seven ministries . . .but seven is just as important as stars . . .those two componants together for me speak of completion . .the message in Paul's day was incomplete . .. he said it himself.  But this revelation of Christ was complete . . .and it's to the "whole" church . .seven stars, complete revelation . .seven churches . . .complete body.  Paul's message was always connected to resurrection . . . John's revelation is always connected to completion, fulness and wholeness . . .  Actually, this dovetails into where I wanted to originally go.

But before I open that door, let me remind you that these things being revealed to John and John isn't writing them out in a simplistic form but in symbols and signs . . .so as we read them, we need to remind ourselves . .numbers don't necessarily carry numeric value in this book . . .colors, gems, even elements of thunder and lightning . . .rather than seeing it as literal lightning, literal sevens, literal angels . . .they all carry other meanings . . .It's God's way of giving his bride revelation without giving it to those who have no desire for intimacy with him.   God doesn't take revealing the nature of his Son lightly . .he's not going to put it out there for just anyone and everyone.  This is a precious thing he's doing . . . so what he's done is, he's put it out there for all to read, but only the bondservant will understand.  Ever ask yourself why it was that when Peter, James and John saw Jesus in his glorified state that Jesus plainly instructed them NOT to tell another person . .not even the other nine???  Or when Peter received his first revelation and Jesus changed his name and told him about the rock, gave them the keys . . .and then instructed them NOT to share this with anyone else?

God cherishes the truth of his heart.  If you want to see it . .he's more than willing to reveal it . .but there's an order to it . .and relationship . .true, intimate relationship is the highest of priorities for these things to be revealed . . .you have to be hungry for it and interested in it.  If it's just another rock to add to your rock collection . .then he's not going to reveal it.  You can't "reason" it out of Scripture or anyone else . . .  It's not a natural reasoning of Jesus Christ . .but it's a revelation . . . it's like God over rides the laboring mind and just "shows" himself, his nature, his most precious valuables which is Christ himself.

Okay . . .I've only got a few minutes of my day left and I really want to get this out before going home.  The tabernacle of Moses was established in a literal man's heart . . .it began with Abraham as far as the promise of a nation goes . . .and Moses was the manifestor of the governing of God's desire for this stubborn people.  We always connect Moses to the law . . and rightly so . . .but the law isn't the sevens . . .it's only a part of them . . .it's like only half of the reality.  Actually, it's not half, it's 1/3.  The heart of God has the law . . .and the spirit . . .and the manna.  Those are dimensions within dimensions of God.  The law would be first dimension . . .it is connected to physically sacrificing the beasts. Not to mention physically being water baptized.

The budding rod of Aaron is the second dimension in that the spirit baptism is the eqipping of power to "be" God's witness and gifts of the spirit manifest within this baptism . . .which equip and empower the "ministry" of the church . . thus, the second dimension of the tabernacle.  Very works oriented.  People professing demonic cleansings and laying on of hands, calling out evil spirits, prophecying over others . .signs and wonders . . .follow any revival and you'll always see the gifts very vividly. . .but it's still all second dimension . .it's still focused on the ministry of men as they go into warfare in the name of the Lord. 

It was the priests that had to keep the fire burning . . .to keep the wicks trimmed, to keep the oil full, to keep the oil supplied . .to keep the bread fresh, to keep the wine full . .to make the wine . . to gather the specific ingredients for the incense . . .to keep "that" fire constantly burning also . . .to take the temple down . . .to move the temple, to set it back up . . .to sacrifice, to give instruction, bring order . . .on and on and on . . .24/7 . . .all of this is in front of the last veil where God resides and remember . .all of this ministry activity "is" established by Christ as we see in Revelation where he's the candlestick and he's "holding" the sevens of the stars . ..the messeage to the church in his hand. . .in his right hand . . .they're not emptyhanded themselves . . .they're held in his authority . . now as to whether they are exercising that authority or not is another matter all together, but they are "equipped" with the authority of the Son as he has this complete . .this message of sevens he holds in his right hand.  The stars are the fires of the church . . .their prophetic message . .not one about future events, but one that is the mouthpiece of God.

Jeeze I'm out of time . . .but let me post this passage of Scripture . . it is the end of the laboring temple and the establishing of a completely different realm . . . one that still accomplishes what the other temples accomplished (Moses and Solomon's) but something is glaringly missing . . .

A Lampstand and Two Olive Trees
 1 Then the angel who had been talking with me returned and woke me, as though I had been asleep. 2 "What do you see now?" he asked.
   I answered, "I see a solid gold lampstand with a bowl of oil on top of it. Around the bowl are seven lamps, each having seven spouts with wicks. 3 And I see two olive trees, one on each side of the bowl." 4 Then I asked the angel, "What are these, my lord? What do they mean?"

 5 "Don't you know?" the angel asked.

   "No, my lord," I replied.

 6 Then he said to me, "This is what the Lord says to Zerubbabel: It is not by force nor by strength, but by my Spirit, says the Lord of Heaven's Armies. 7 Nothing, not even a mighty mountain, will stand in Zerubbabel's way; it will become a level plain before him! And when Zerubbabel sets the final stone of the Temple in place, the people will shout: 'May God bless it! May God bless it!'[a]"

 8 Then another message came to me from the Lord: 9 "Zerubbabel is the one who laid the foundation of this Temple, and he will complete it. Then you will know that the Lord of Heaven's Armies has sent me. 10 Do not despise these small beginnings, for the Lord rejoices to see the work begin, to see the plumb line in Zerubbabel's hand."

   (The seven lamps represent the eyes of the Lord that search all around the world.)

 11 Then I asked the angel, "What are these two olive trees on each side of the lampstand, 12 and what are the two olive branches that pour out golden oil through two gold tubes?"

 13 "Don't you know?" he asked.

   "No, my lord," I replied.

 14 Then he said to me, "They represent the two heavenly beings who stand in the court of the Lord of all the earth."

This is my all time favorite Scripture . .it's where I strive to live in all the time . . .can't elaborate on it now . . .time to go home . . .sigh  . . .

[claypot]

   (The seven lamps represent the eyes of the Lord that search all around the world.)

 11 Then I asked the angel, "What are these two olive trees on each side of the lampstand, 12 and what are the two olive branches that pour out golden oil through two gold tubes?"

 13 "Don't you know?" he asked.

   "No, my lord," I replied.

 14 Then he said to me, "They represent the two heavenly beings who stand in the court of the Lord of all the earth."[/color]

I'm going to guess here. Seven lamps that are eyes of the Lord that search the world seem to be implying that there are forces within people like conscience and reasoning powers that keep a watch on us, guide us.

2 heavenly beings who stand in the court of the Lord could be heart and mind of people.

Hmmmmm. Just my 

[Nathan]

   (The seven lamps represent the eyes of the Lord that search all around the world.)

 11 Then I asked the angel, "What are these two olive trees on each side of the lampstand, 12 and what are the two olive branches that pour out golden oil through two gold tubes?"

 13 "Don't you know?" he asked.

   "No, my lord," I replied.

 14 Then he said to me, "They represent the two heavenly beings who stand in the court of the Lord of all the earth."[/color]

I'm going to guess here. Seven lamps that are eyes of the Lord that search the world seem to be implying that there are forces within people like conscience and reasoning powers that keep a watch on us, guide us.

2 heavenly beings who stand in the court of the Lord could be heart and mind of people.

Hmmmmm. Just my 

Scripture interprets Scripture . . .Jesus said he is the vine . ."we" are the branches.  See, just like the shadow tabernacle, we are just as much a part of the substance as we are of the shadow.  Just as the candlestick also shows . . .there are 6 branches, three on the left, three on the right, and the center shaft is Christ who makes up the 7th flame . . .he is our completion.  Through us flows the golden (purely divine) oil (annointing) that keeps the fire burning . . .fire of life and refinement.  For me, this is where the flatliners (two-dimensional beleivers . ..meaning everything is either right or wrong) seem to veer off the track a bit . . .the lake of fire itself is to never be quenched . .but the refining process does have a completion to it. 

I would even say one's time in the lake of fire can be just as eternal as the lake itself . . .but when you see the fire is God, then you can also see there are different stages of maturity and purpose we experience in God . . .all the while, we never actually leave or get out of him . . .he is the lake of fire . . .and only those who's names are not in the book of life are cast into it . . .for the rest of us . . .for me anyway . . .I became a part of it the instant I accepted Christ into my heart.

Two witnesses . . . same response . .let Scripture interpret itself . . .They are in Revelation . . .

Revelation 11:3
"And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."

The 1260 days . . .that is 3 1/2 years . .the same exact time that Jesus' ministry lasted.  Now check out the next verse in this . . .

4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.  5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.  6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

See how it connects them up again?  Question . . .who do you know in Scripture that they have fire in their message as they speak?  And the words they spoke silenced those who came against them?  This is all spiritual . . .Pharisees tried time and again to remove Jesus from the scene, but Jesus mysteriously always slipped through them.  The killing isn't a physical killing . .the only killing Jesus did was carnal.  The hevens being shut up from rain during their days . . .

Duet. 32
My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

No other prophets were bringing truth to the earth during the ministry of Christ . . . the curses released . . .Matthew 23 has the 7 woes given by Jesus . . .there was also the fig tree he cursed . .  understand that the fig tree was more than just a simple bush . .it represented a nation . . .it's all there, and it all fits.


Revelation 11
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.  8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jesus made it very clear that until his time came, he would continue going about his father's business.  But when the hour had come, he went willingly.  The reason he went, was because his testimony was complete.  This beast  . . .who was it that killed Jesus?  It wasn't the ungodly . .those that never worshiped God or ever acknowledged God . .it was not the Gentiles . .but the Jews . . .the religious Jews, it was the beast within the bottomless pits of their carnal minds that killed him.  And verse 8 also ties the two places together . . spiritually Sodom and Egypt . . .Sodom is remembered for it's perversion of intimacies . . .Egypt is the home of idolatry . . .that's what kept creeping into Israel . . .but he ties this into Jerusalem.  It continues to say "they" but I'll explain what I see with that in a sec . . .


 9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Now for me, keeping in mind that the pattern of the spirit is always opposite from natural reasoning . . .Jesus did not remain on earth for another 3 1/2 years ... but his ministry to the Jews did . . the day of his baptism was the beginning of this week . . .3 1/2 days of it was with him walking and testifying of the transition that was about to take place.  At that point, he was killed . .he was the ultimate sacrifice . .and it stopped.  For the next 3 1/2 days, he may have left in body, but things were not fully completed in spirit.  This is the last week of the 70 weeks of Daniel's prophecy.  What brought this to a completion is at the maryrdom of Stephen . .it was at that point the focus went from Jew to Gentile . . .That was when Paul came into the picture . .and he made it very clear that his ministry was not to the Jews, but to the Gentiles.

Where I originally was going to go with this . . .if you can, put things in reverse and we'll come into this from another perspective.  And that is in the overlaying of the 3 1/2 days . . . if it doesn't fit for you . .that's absolutely fine . .I'm not trying to imply this is the only way to see it . . .I'm giving you a couple different angles while observing the same event.

Jesus represented death before being driven into the wilderness . . .the Jordan river . .it means "descending" . . .it's connected to death.  And when he was baptized in it, when he went under . . .the natural phase of his life came to a close .  .he died to it . ..his mother, his Father . .brothers and sisters . .he essentially left home . . .he died to his past . . .death occurred. . .and for the next 3 1/2 years, the Jesus the world saw was a spiritual ministry manifesting . . . but his old nature was now dead . .so in a sense, they observed him being dead . . .for 3 1/2 days . .for the length of his ministry, but then God called him up . . .it rose out of the tomb . .he resurrected from that death in every dimension, and left here in a cloud . . .

 10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.  11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.  12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

This post is attempting to reflect what I see in dealing with the two witnesses . . .they are the two trees and we are the branches of those trees.  But what of the second tree?  If Christ is the first tree, there is only one other who is worthy to be presented in the same realm and level as Christ and that is the Holy Ghost.  I believe that is why at the Jordan, the Holy Spirit manifested as "joining" to Christ as his ministry began . . .the two became the witnesses of testimony of the will of God to man.

[claypot]

 10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.  11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.  12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

This post is attempting to reflect what I see in dealing with the two witnesses . . .they are the two trees and we are the branches of those trees.  But what of the second tree?  If Christ is the first tree, there is only one other who is worthy to be presented in the same realm and level as Christ and that is the Holy Ghost.  I believe that is why at the Jordan, the Holy Spirit manifested as "joining" to Christ as his ministry began . . .the two became the witnesses of testimony of the will of God to man.

So many dimensions to all of this. Tis good.

These 2 prophets that tormented them that dwelt on the earth. So graphic. So revealing. I know my 'earthiness' has been and is tormented by something working in me. I am much more sensitive to something higher. I think this is because of the presence of at least 2 witnesses.

I like how you bring in the Holy Spirit Nathan. I find it works for me to think of the Father, Son and HS as working together in all to become all in all. I like to think of the Father desiring all of us and the Son picking up on that desire and calling all that the Father is thinking of into existence and the HS jumping in to give all the Son is speaking forth into life, animation.

I know, weird but remember the diamond. Many facets of the same thing. God cannot be properly taken in via only one gate. He is way too dimensional and multi faceted. The temple and tabernacle prove this.

cp

[Nathan]

1 Then the angel who had been talking with me returned and woke me, as though I had been asleep. 2 "What do you see now?" he asked.   I answered, "I see a solid gold lampstand with a bowl of oil on top of it. Around the bowl are seven lamps, each having seven spouts with wicks. 3 And I see two olive trees, one on each side of the bowl." 4 Then I asked the angel, "What are these, my lord? What do they mean?" 5 "Don't you know?" the angel asked.   "No, my lord," I replied.

 6 Then he said to me, "This is what the Lord says to Zerubbabel: It is not by force nor by strength, but by my Spirit, says the Lord of Heaven's Armies. 7 Nothing, not even a mighty mountain, will stand in Zerubbabel's way; it will become a level plain before him! And when Zerubbabel sets the final stone of the Temple in place, the people will shout: 'May God bless it! May God bless it!'[a]" 8 Then another message came to me from the Lord: 9 "Zerubbabel is the one who laid the foundation of this Temple, and he will complete it. Then you will know that the Lord of Heaven's Armies has sent me. 10 Do not despise these small beginnings, for the Lord rejoices to see the work begin, to see the plumb line in Zerubbabel's hand."
   (The seven lamps represent the eyes of the Lord that search all around the world.)
 11 Then I asked the angel, "What are these two olive trees on each side of the lampstand, 12 and what are the two olive branches that pour out golden oil through two gold tubes?" 13 "Don't you know?" he asked.   "No, my lord," I replied. 14 Then he said to me, "They represent the two heavenly beings who stand in the court of the Lord of all the earth."

This passage is Zechariah 4 . . .it's my most favorite passage in all of Scripture.  The reason being is because this is the church in sevens.  Remember we mentioned earlier that each part of the tabernacle is to prepare you for the next . . the first dimension prepares you for the second . .the second prepares you for the third.  Salvation prepares you for baptism, baptism prepares you for ministry, ministry matures you for Rest.  Read this first part of the chapter again . . .

I highligted it in purple (color of royalty)  You have a centerpiece . . .the candlestick supporting the bowl containing the oil the seven flames draw from.  you have two trees on either side of this . .two trees . .sound familiar?  it began in Genesis . . went to Golgaltha, surfaced again in Revelation . .two trees with a river flowing in between.  The two trees are the two witnesses . . .they testify of the manna . . .they illuminate the bread.  Jesus testified of the Father, the Spirit testifies of Christ.  There are two trees on either side of this lampstand supporting the oil and the fire . . .and out of the two trees are golden tubes . .they are the conduit through which the annointing flows from the trees into the bowl feeding the fire.

Now compare this with Moses tabernacle . .it had a lampstand, it had fire, it had oil . .it illuminated . . . but what's missing?  What does Moses' tabernacle have that Zechariah's lampstand doesn't?  I'll tell you . . .it doesn't have men of flesh manifesting ministries of labor.  The oil flows right from the trees without any assistance of men . .but men are definitely still very much a part of this activity, just as before . .but they've taken on a different persona.  They are the branches . .they are the golden tubes . .they are the conduit through which the anointing oil flows.  But no labor is required . . .they simply "function" in the arena they were created to be in.  

"That's" why this passage is so special to me.  "That's" why I tend to get preachy on too much emphasis with ministry-based churches . . .works based thinking  . .. natural reasoning . .the laboring mind . .all of that . . . "this" is the crux of where I'm coming from.  I beleive that there is still a place and a purpose for those things.  I beleive there is a reason why the church is established in a ministry based arena . .but it's not according to the Old Covenant tabernacle . .it's not according the the shadow . .but it's according to the original image . .the authentic body of God through which the shadow was cast.

We still accomplish the same things as before . .but now, it's from a position of rest rather than labor.  "This" is why you see me commenting about the progression "from" spiritual warfare "to" spiritual rest.  Our weapons are transformed into plowshares.  The warring stops . .the "reasoning" stops and the planting begins.  We simply share with one another what God is revealing to us, rather than debating with one another whether one is right or wrong.

Incidently, Zerubbabel literally means "descended of Babylon".   That puts a bit of a different light on things also.

One last thing to this post.  I found it most enlightening to see the answer given when Zechariah inquired of the meaning of what he saw . . the answer was . . .not by might, not by power . .but by his spirit . . . .this is the same picture Jesus drew when Peter saw who Jesus was . ."Flesh and blood did not teach you this . . ."  It's what I've been saying all along . . .and these passages are why I say it . . . to see Christ in everything is to have Christ revealed "in" you.  And that is not something that comes through study, reasoning, or discipline . .but simply in waiting upon the Lord until it's "revealed" in you . . . and from there, you're life will reflect his nature in everything you read, see, and do.

[claypot]

Nathan, with all this talk of flowing without the aid of people, just a flowing of oil and all, am I hearing you saying that all life flows. The good, bad and the ugly. People tend to get stuck in thinking they have to do good and if they do evil they will disrupt Gods plans and their own salvaion somehow. Are people getting stuck even in thinking in moral terms?

I'm thinking of a verse.....

He that is unjust, let  him  be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous,  let   him  be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him  be holy still.  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be....rev22.11

Lives lived are like the ocean waves. They just keep coming and coming and doing their thing, some ferocious and destructive while others are peaceful as a feather floating in a gently wind. People are like that. Look at all the self help books and all the ministries geared towards easing peoples burdens. Evil is still in major abundance.

Ya know, I listened to a Dr. Dobson show (a Christian phsychologist) and in his introduction he said how horrible the attack is on the family. Then I listened to one of his first shows, 20 or so years ago, and he was saying the exact same thing. I thought how interesting it was that after 20 some years of trying to fix family problems things have actually gotten worse!

I'm asking Nathan if what you are seeing in these teachings is the concept that life flows. If you lean towards worshipping God and being good you will do so and if you lean towards being one nasty so and so you will be.

 He that is unjust, let  him  be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous,  let   him  be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him  be holy still.  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be....rev22.11

cp

[Nathan]

I did a funeral last summer and the family of the deceased played a Johnny Cash song that had that verse in it . . .it's always been one of those that never made much sense to me . . .and here, while I'm reading your question on it . .this is what I can see with it now . . .

He that is unjust, let  him  be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous,  let   him  be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him  be holy still.  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be....rev22.11

The one thing the church has been really good at is dressing people up.  When our outside activity becomes our focus, we are actually not "being" ourselves, but we're playing a role of an image we think is godly.  You ever get so mad at someone or something that you had thought language that is not language you, yourself actually speak?  Or, better yet, you ever just let your hair down when your alone . . .ever feel like much of your church life was putting on a front?  Everybody does it.  You don't really know a person in church until you start hanging around them at home or work . .away from the church setting. 

And even then it can be kept in check until pressure comes . . .temperatures raise, stress grows . . .buttons get pushed . . .those times are when things hidden in us will come out.  We're not what we think we are . . .often times we've gotten so good and being someone we're "expected" to be that we don't even recognize who we really are. 

This passage you mention is really telling me . . .if you are unjust inside, you are unjust outside, if you are filthy inside, you are filthy outside . . .but if you are righteous inside  . .you are righteous outside.  What you do on the outside is not an accurate assessment of who you are inside.  Because your outside can be controlled by your own power.

But in the light of truth . . .what you are on the inside, can not be hidden by what you personally try to control on the outside . .and it is there where judgment comes.  Again . . .for me . .judgment is not for the believer, but for the unbeliever.  If I put my faith in the finished works of Christ . . .why then would I still be judged for that which Christ has already been accredited for?

[Nathan]

I have a few minutes left here . .got kind of steered away from the tabernacle a bit . . .would like to steer it back there for at least one more post . .and it's really the most important . .it's dealing with the holy of holies.  This is where God resides . . .the presence of the Father literally filled this room.  This room becomes his realm.  Even there's no account of it actually happening, the high priest would have to tie a rope to his foot incase he entered in the holy of holies and was unclean . . .he would be immediately killed . .the rope was so the other priests could drag him back out without having to enter into the holy of holies themselves.  I would liken this with communion in an unworthy manner.

God did kill two of Aaron's sons as they filled their sensers with a "strange" fire.  Which is simply a fire initiated by man rather than God.  God started this fire in the temple by way of lightining consuming the sacrifice at the onset.  Even though they'd tear the whole thing down in order to relocate, they still kept the fire burning the entire time . . .kind of like running with the Olympic torch.

Up to this point, there were 5 articles in the tabernacle that were ministered to . . . the altar of sacrifice, the introduction into the temple . . .the laver . . .the baptism in preparation for ministry . . .the candlestick . . .which illuminates light . .the table of shewbread . .which consists of 12 loaves . . .representing God's established government engaging with the 12 tribes of Israel and also Christ as he is the bread of life . .this is his government being established in the temple of worship.  And the fifth is the altar of incense . . .praise and worship and prayers of the saints.

When I first became the pastor of our church . . I had this wooden box, about the size of a shoe box . .and I had the congregation jot their needs down and I would go over on Saturday nights, go through each one and pray individually . . .when I was done, I'd anoint them with oil and light them on fire . .it was never really a big fire . .I'd just burn them one at a time in the church . . .I used a metal bowl and didn't give much thought to it .  .one night I went through the normal thing, but I thought I wanted to do this right . . .so I took the bowl and sat it on the floor in front of the altar . . .did my thing, said the prayers, burne dthe papers . ..but when I was done and went to put stuff away . . .the bowl melted the backing of the carpet and was glued to the floor . . .I managed to finally tear it off . .but it left a big black charred spot right in the open . . that was my version of the altar of incense . . .

I'm not going to be able to finish this . . .my day here is done . . .probably a bit much to absorb all of this in one sitting anyway . . .this stuff takes time to digest before it becomes a part of our nature and we become a part of it . . .but when it happens . . my, oh my . . .how I love to feast on this stuff.

[reFORMer]

(I wrote this a while back, though I don't know if I posted it elsewhere on tentmaker.)
-------------------------------------

I grew up in a church that called itself "Full Gospel."  They taught what could be called two salvation experiences:  1.) "born-again," or, vivification of spirit and 2.) "Baptism in the Holy Spirit," which over time refers to the guiding, teaching and forming of our consciousness, emotions and will.  This is a progressive change of the soul by the work of the Holy Spirit, or, rousing of the soul.  What I didn't then know was that there's a third dimension, a third salvation:  3.) "resurrection," or, raising of the body.  Paul spoke of it as a race he was striving to win.

My idea of resurrection had been an acceptance of Jesus' historical resurrection and a belief in some future change for myself and even all humanity.  This was not something I viewed as able to be affected by anything I could do.  It took time and growth in knowledge of Scripture to understand we're racing against death.  Will we mature enough, that is reach enough "finishedness" to not be taken out by the last enemy?  If God is no respecter of persons, and we realize (even if they don't possess it like Jesus does) Enoch, Melchizedek and Elijah entered into something of this full victory, then there is before each one of us an open door that no man can shut.

This 3rd dimension is definitely what the following Pauline references (ASV) from Phillipians 3 are about:  "If by any means I may attain unto the resurrection from the dead..." (v.3) "I press on toward the goal unto the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus..." (v.14) "For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: who shall fashion anew the body of our humiliation, that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working whereby he is able even to subject all things unto himself." (v.19-21)  Resurrection followed by ascension is actually the at the finish of the race we are in.  We've already entered something of the end because he who is the beginning and the end has entered us.  He is the resurrection and the life.  He has joined us here from his place in ascension.  His increasing presence in us will bring about this change and manifest to the world with us until we rule with him for the thousands (though contested, "Millennium" is actually plural in Greek) of years.

The three Feasts (God entering into us, Christ in us) are 1.) Passover = new birth; 2.) Pentecost = manifestations of teaching rain for soul change; 3.) Tabernacles = transfiguration of habitation.

The three successive dimensions of The Tabernacle/Temple (our entrance into God, we in Christ) are: 1.) the outer court = through a veil, not measured, where the crowd is, in "natural" light, concerned with judgment and cleansing; 2.) the holy place = another lifting of a veil (paradigm change,) only by appointment of God to the priesthood, the light is from scripture (the lampstand has 66 parts) and the anointing in the Church (those united with the word hid in their hearts which is what God anoints, the oil that must be refreshed is burning, there's activity and most of what's there is made by man, concerned with prayer (fresh bread of faces--we are one loaf) and altar of incense; 3.) the holy of holies = another veil removed (Isaiah 25:6-9) veil removed is death destroyed,)1000 sq cubits (Millennium,) only once on day of atonement during feast of tabernacles the High priest (Jesus first born head of entire body--feet last born) enter in, the only light is from the Shekinah presence resting on the throne of mercy ruling over all.  Changed by union with the Word Who is the Image and Glory of God, His throne must be establish in you for the glory to rest upon.

Look up the "third day" in Scripture. ("...on the third day I shall be glorified..." Consider the many threefold things; eg., "you have not many 'fathers'" (deriv., "starter"), Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac (lit., "laughter," "laugh causer" -- "in Isaac your seed shall be called") and Jacob (who has the name/nature change) unfold the Spirits progressive work in bringing forth mature nurturers, the Fatherhood realm.

The women are churches, or, the soul conceiving, or, covenants (Ga 4:21-31) if husband law dies she is free to marry grace (Rm 7:2-6) but even knowing that no learning more and trying harder which is works of law, even knowing there is no disciplined path of anything that can bring the voice of God into us (paraphrase of Ga 2:16) Orpah (30 fold) only goes as far as the borders of her natural birth land, her natural impulses; Naomi (60 fold, Pentecost not enough) says bitterly, " the hand of the Lord has gone out against me...I am too old;" Ruth for love goes all the way and lies at His feet in the middle of the night and says,"Cover me." "...not to be uncovered, but clothed upon; for this mortal must put on the immortal!"

Then I really like the mind to rule (what is kingdom of God mentality):  (30 fold, born again:) King Saul, anointed flesh; (60 fold, gifts of Spirit:) King David (translated means "beloved,") another house (not the first man) defeats the enemies of the Lord, flesh subdued; (100 fold, tabernacle, body transfigured, resurrection:) King Solomon (peace, welfare) brings in the flesh (embodiment) glorified, his realm is marked by wisdom.

Without going anywhere else I'm striving and expecting to come into complete victory, even over death, walking with Jesus so closely all the time that I cross over, I change rather than sleep.  This is what Jesus has me looking to him for.  Ah, intimacy with God...

your brother, James Rohde

[Cardinal]

  Amen, thank You, Father........

[Nathan]

I've had this king David thought rattling around in my head lately as well.  David's desire was to build the house of God . . . he didn't want God to remain in the old tent .  . . but he so badly wanted to honor God by building a new place for him . . .and he wasn' allowed . . .Moses wanted to take the people across the river of death . . .the veil . . .but he wasn't allowed . . .in both of these situations, I believe the spiritual picture that lies beneath is the fact that both David and Moses were 2nd dimension . . .just as the church is.  The second dimensions primary focus is on works . . .ministry . . .man laboring for God.  They are very much in that "spiritual warfare" mentality.

But for David, that is what kept him from building the temple . . .God didn't want his house to be built by a man of war.  And if David, a man after God's own heart, could not build the temple, what makes anyone think the church can build it?  They are people of warfare, no different than David.  As for Moses, his entire life was one who prepares.  The first forty years he was raised in Egypt, to prepare for leading a nation out . . .the second forty years he was in the wilderness, to prepare him to find that leader within himself . .and the last forty years was the actual fulfillment of all the preparation of the first two sets of forty.  But there was no crossing of the Jordan for him, he is the manifestor of the law . . .and just as warfare doesn't lead you into Rest . . .neither does the law.  They are both for the maturity of the saints . .they are the preparers, but they themselves can't enter into the realm of Rest.  But . . .their offspring can . . Their Solomons can.

Solomon was the third generation of kings.  Think about this . . .Saul was the first king, but he was removed and David replaced him . . .Saul is the outer court experience  But David is the temple and Solomon is the Holy of Holies "in" the temple . . .he came from David's loins . . .they are one building, but there are the two generations . . .holy place and holy of holies.

Being the third generation of kings . . .Solomons reign was beyond imagination in wealth, peace and prosparity.  Just as the holy of holies is spiritually . . . With Moses . . .he was second generation as well . . .Pharoah was first generation and just as Saul was removed from the lineage of kings, Pharoah also was removed and never had any connections with God's chosen nation either.  Moses stepped in, as did David . . .and Moses assembled all of the elements for deliverence, but never actually led the people out of the wilderness.  In the same way, David assembled all of the materials needed to build the temple, but never actually had a part in the actual building of it.

Joshua steps in and all the work was complete . . .all he had to do was lead them into the promised land.  Solomon stepped in and all the work was complete, all he had to do was assemble what was already there.  The third dimension of God is where we are called to enter into as our final place of "Rest".  In this realm the work is complete, the warfare is at rest, the weapons are changed into plowshares . . . why would people "not" want to pursue this realm?  Why would they choose to remain in the warfare? 

I think I just got the message for our church this coming Sunday . . . this is pretty cool stuff.  For me anyway.

[Cardinal]

  Another good one  . I'd only like to add that the Lord showed me that David was not permitted to build the temple because he was a bloody man, but it was not from warfare, after all God told him when to go to war.

The blood on his hands was because he desired a woman/soul who was not his to have, to join himself to her, and he was willing to kill her husband to do it. Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them. Blessings....

[Zeek]

Another good one  . I'd only like to add that the Lord showed me that David was not permitted to build the temple because he was a bloody man, but it was not from warfare, after all God told him when to go to war.

The blood on his hands was because he desired a woman/soul who was not his to have, to join himself to her, and he was willing to kill her husband to do it. Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them. Blessings....

 


 2Cr 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.


 
1Cr 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

[Nathan]

Another good one  . I'd only like to add that the Lord showed me that David was not permitted to build the temple because he was a bloody man, but it was not from warfare, after all God told him when to go to war.

The blood on his hands was because he desired a woman/soul who was not his to have, to join himself to her, and he was willing to kill her husband to do it. Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them. Blessings....

I really don't want to contradict what you feel God has shown you on this, but my reasons for connecting David with war comes from the book of 1 Kings 5 . . .he was reknown for his ability to win battles which much blood being shed . .yes, God directed many of them and he was with him in them, but that is also for me, the same as those who feel led to labor in the holy place . . .God calls them there to do his work and perhaps even keeps them there because he knows their heart . .they aren't willing to enter into rest . . .so they remain as laborers . . .David was a man of war . . . and God did bless him greatly . . .thinking about it in your terms . . .isn't it so much more of an honor to have the Messiah come through your lineage than to build a building?  And if God was telling David that he's not worthy to build a building because of this sin with this man, who was more than just a soldier in David's army, but that's another sermon . . .but if David is not worthy to build a physical temple . .how would he then be worthy to be "in" the lineage of Jesus?


3"You know that David my father was unable to build a house for the name of the LORD his God because of the wars which surrounded him, until the LORD put them under the soles of his feet

[Cardinal]

  My reason is, 1) the Lord showed it to me, and 2) the flesh WARS against the Spirit continually  . Blessings....

[Cardinal]

Another good one  . I'd only like to add that the Lord showed me that David was not permitted to build the temple because he was a bloody man, but it was not from warfare, after all God told him when to go to war.

The blood on his hands was because he desired a woman/soul who was not his to have, to join himself to her, and he was willing to kill her husband to do it. Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them. Blessings....

  2Cr 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

1Cr 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

  Zeek, I'm sorry, but your comment went right over my head this morning.....