Author Topic: Experiencing the Tabernacle  (Read 16448 times)

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Offline Nathan

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Experiencing the Tabernacle
« on: February 27, 2009, 10:01:42 PM »
There have been many gracious comments requesting a thread to be started on this topic so that all can glean and add to the study of the tabernacle.  I have not yet responded because I've been "waiting" on it to take form "in" me as well.  There are no dimensional studies to my knowledge on this topic.  There are studies on it . . .just not revelational in the sense of seeing the connection between their symbolizations of Christ and also "me".  What's been shared on this subject this far is just sharing what I "see" rather than relaying what has been taught . .so much of what's been shared has come in fragments.

A comment was made that one found it curious that all do not automatically go to the tabernacle and learn of this spiritual pattern referred to in Hebrews 10 . . .and I couldn't agree more . .it's actually not the first time this statement has been made.  I had it birth in me as well about 5 years ago . .but back then, I was just beginning my dimensional walk and much of what I learned about the tabernacle is what I could pull up off the net.  And to be honest, there is still nothing wrong with that.  This is one area where really understanding the details literally will take on a life of it's own.  But for starters . . .Hebrews 9 . . .

Colossians 2
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:  17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Hebrews 8
4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:  5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount

Hebrews 9
8The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:  9Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us

Hebrews 10
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

It is clear that God uses patterns to reveal other things.  If we miss the pattern, we will only have an incomplete message.  And the thing about patterns is, the pattern is not the core of the message . .it's simply something that's used as a sign that "points" to the core of the message.  So if I'm to say that the pattern isn't the substance . . . then we'd also have to agree that the text that documented the pattern is the same, it's a sign "pointing to" the substance, but it's not the substance itself.  This is in no way intended to take away anything from the Word, it's simply trying to put it into perspective as to the "purpose" of the Word . . .which for me, is to direct us to our salvation in Christ.  These patterns that the Scripture comprises of do that same thing, they lead me to Truth that liberates me from myself.  To him that knows the truth the Truth will "set him free".  Truth is not knowledge, it's a person.

If you want to understand Christ . .the blueprint is in the tabernacle.  It was located in the center of Israel's camp because that's where one's heart is . . .God wanted to be Israel's heart.  In the spirit, there is neither Jew or Greek, bond or free, male or female . ..we are grafted "back" into the tree of life through our relationship with Christ. 

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2009, 10:41:09 PM »
Okay, introduction out of the way . . .keep in mind, just sharing what I see as I see it . . .so this may be just a compilation of fragments that assemble together for the purpose of Christ revealing to you more things than just what I see.

The tabernacle is made up of three major components.  The outer court, the inner court and the holy of holies.  The relevence?  God is made up of three major components, Father, Son and Holy Ghost . . .The Scripture is made up of three major components Spiritual, Moral/corporate and natural/physical  . . our body is made up of three major components, Spirit, soul, and flesh . .. these three overlay the three of the tabernacle.  Our spirit is connected to the holy of holies, our mind/soul is connected to the holy place and our body is connected to the outer court.

To understand why we do and think the way we do, understanding the activities of each of these components of the tabernacle will go a long way in explaining the reasons.  This is all orchestrated by God.  We were made in his image . . .which could be then saying "we" are also shadows of Christ.  He is the substance, we are the outline of that substance.  As he moves, so moves his shadow.  Things that are meant to be temporary, our religious minds will declare them to be permanent . .and that which should be permanent, our minds try to convince us they are only temporary.  If we are in God's image, and we are the shadow casting across the land . .then we should "move" and "change" when Christ moves and changes . . .you can't nail a shadow down, even though many a religious men have tried.

The outer court consists of two major articles . . .the altar of sacrifice, and the laver.  The purpose of this entire structure is to remove the sin from the people for their righteousness . . .they had to physically do what Christ fulfilled in every dimension, spiritual, moral and physical.  The blood of the animal had to be removed and taken from the entire process.  The reason being is because life is in the blood, and this process was not manifesting due to life, but law.  So life was removed from all of it.  The only part of the blood that was used was that which was taken into the holy of holies and sprinkled upon the mercy seat once a year.

I feel like I could really get bogged down in much of this . . .so I'll try to just stay with the highlights . . of what I see and what is pertinent.

There is only one gate . . .always facing east . . .the rising of the sun . . .this whole thing is not about death and burial, but about resurrection.  The experience of light, the removal of darkness . . .facing the east, for me, always depicts the resurrecting of the Son.

In the same manner as we did with the spirit/soul/body overlay of the tabernacle, the same also fits perfectly with spiritual/moral-corporate/natural.  The outer court is illuminated with the natural light of the sun.  The altar of sacrifice depicts the introductory into Chirst . . .salvation experience.  We are circumcized spiritually, we sacrifice our sin-governed lives at the altar of Christ . . .this altar is made of bronze . .bronze is connected to judgment. 

Rather than a judgment of death to men, Christ took on death so that when we accept him, death passes over us and we willingly then sacrifice, bring death to our carnal flesh in accepting his physical death as us.  It's still first dimension . .still natural realm, still infant stage of our walk in him.  The tabernacle layout is the journey of man.  It's a walk of life and each element in this tabernacle is a milestone that each of us experience.  Salvation first, baptism next . . .but again, these are first dimension in the sense that they are introductory experiences . .they are the milk stage of our maturity in Christ.  And they are very necessary . .we can not enter into the Holy of Holies without first experiencing each of these milestones in Christ.  It's a procession of life "in" Christ.  The pursuit and goal is to enter the heart . .the 3rd dimension, the Holy of holies . . . but it's a process.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2009, 10:54:46 PM »
The altar of sacrifice is where the priests are bloodied up.  This thought occurred to me just the other day . . . my brothers worked in a slaughter house years ago .  . . cattle mostly . . .and one afternoon, they invited me to check out there process.  It's a violent process. . . but it was also pretty efficient.  It was an assembly line of death.  And the odd thing was . . .you could really get the sense that even though the cows waiting there couldn't see it actually happening, there was this "sense" of death in the air.  It was everywhere, not to mention the odors that are connected to it.

I don't know what your idea is of actually what transpired in the tabernacle, but it's basically an assembly line of death.  This didn't just happen a couple times in the day . . .that's what they evolved into during the days of Christ . . .just certain times of the day an animal sacrifice was being done . . .but in Moses' tabernacle . . .it was round the clock.  In the center of this massive group of people, was this assembly line of death.  smoke in the air all the time, billowing of frantic animals . . .I'm sure there was a break out here and there of some disorder and that's just dealing with the first step of this thing.

But that's really what's happening to our carnality when we come to Christ . . .it experiences an assembly line of death.  And a transformation happens at this altar just as it does to the altar of incense . . . matter is transformed into another form.  Just as we are renewed in our minds from flesh to spirit .  . . the animal was transformed by this fire from flesh and bone . .so smoke.  This first step may be the introduction into infancy, but that's not to say it's just as powerful and profoundly life-changing as the Holy of Holies itself. 

Our God is a consuming fire . . . our carnality can not withstand his presence.  And that "presence" comes into us at this altar . . .and the more mature we become in this walk, the more our nature is consumed.

Offline claypot

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2009, 04:13:34 AM »
This is already good. What I am hoping for is that these revelations concerning the tabernacle will change me. I need changing. I feel so carnal lately. To study the word and get cool insights is one thing and to mentally see new things is good but to actually be changed in my very essence is a different thing altogether.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline claypot

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2009, 04:16:37 AM »
An assemble line of death. That's interesting Nathan. It gives me a good feeling to really think this is going on 'in me' as I write.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2009, 06:29:44 AM »
:cloud9: Good stuff Nathan..... :thumbsup: I posted most of this I think before a long time back....., where I don't know. I'll try to add more as I am able.

:cloud9: Hebrews 10 tells us the pattern of spiritual things is the tabernacle pattern. The outer court was where basically anyone could be in the presence of the Lord, albeit from a distance. Women (souls), all Israel, and even strangers (today would be like Hindus, Muslims, ect.) as well as ANYONE who has not had the baptism of the Spirit, the outward anointing, including (and listed SOLELY based on their doctrinal beliefs that exclude the baptism of the Spirit ie. Pentecost, as do the first groups mentioned also), such as Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, ect.

They were and are, all in the same outer court realm. He has given ALL men a measure of faith to receive Him and this is that realm. He is in all, but all do not yet know it, or Him. This is why all received the same wages whether or not they had been there all day (more light) or one hour (less light). This is the realm of soulish fleshly works. This portion of the tabernacle had no covering over it, so if the people in that realm looked up into the heavenlies or at heavenly things, they saw only a LITERAL heavenly host, ie. sun, moon and stars. They are still governed over by the letter, the natural "host", still eating of the wrong tree. He concluded ALL under sin.

This is the realm of the inner anointing, the salvation of the Spirit, ie. the spirit returns to the One that sent it. This is Christ in you, ie. He subjected the same in hope, Christ in you, the hope of glory. This is the realm of the brazen altar, where the works of the flesh are dealt with thru the dying to self. It had a veil between it and the next realm also, which veil is "rent" by dying to self works. It is the water baptism realm, ie. being baptized into the likeness of His death. Reckon yourselves DEAD. This is the passover realm. If we partake of the eating of the Lamb, we pass from death into life.

:cloud9: The inner court realm is the realm of the priesthood. The priestly tribe that was chosen by God Himself, could get a little closer to the God that had created all. A peculiar (means chosen) people, a priestly nation, ie. He would that they were ALL priests. This is the realm of the golden candlestick, representative of the light we receive from the outward baptism of the Spirit, ie. being baptized INTO the Spirit which is Christ, He becomes our covering, and this is why the commandment came that women (the soul/flesh) must have a covering, so as not to be "naked" and ashamed. The Spirit of Christ, which IS the Holy Ghost, is that covering of the women (soul/flesh).

This is the glory, the life of the Spirit that begins to consume the corruption that has made us take on another glory/image. As we have born the image of the natural (outer court, Christ in you), so too we will bear the image of the spiritual (inner court, you in Christ). Just as women, strangers, and all Israel were not allowed to come into this court because they were not priests, so too does God make this distinction now, spiritually.

The priests were only allowed to wear linen to come into the inner court to serve God. Linen speaks of the righteousness that is by faith, the faith of the Spirit of Christ, not the measure of faith to receive Him, that is typified in the outer court realm of experience. The Spirit baptism is the beginning of "putting on" Christ, ie. He becomes our "linen garment". This is why it says that our righteousness (ie. without linen garment/Spirit of Christ covering us) is as filthy rags. That's the pattern and it is not subject to change as far as God is concerned.

This is the realm of the Spirit, and the works of the Spirit. The Holy Ghost does the works. This is the realm of Pentecost, and this is the second of 3 feasts that the Lord God commanded the children of Israel to partake of FOREVER. We were grafted into the olive tree, and as we have a spiritual covenant now, these feasts are fulfilled in us spiritually, but they did not end and they were not a suggestion, which is why those in the outer court realm I explained above have the option of ignoring the rest of the pattern, but they do so at a loss, as in those that go thru the fire suffer loss, but they are saved. He concluded all under sin, that thru His Spirit, He might have mercy upon all.

:cloud9: So, without going into the 3rd part of the Tabernacle in detail, the whole pattern looks like this......

These are just a FEW correlations between the courts and specific three part scriptures, the last time I did this I had around 30 for each of the courts; the Word (both OT and NT) is literally full of them because He can't do anything but express His nature......as above, so below.

OUTER COURT                    INNER COURT                   HOLY OF HOLIES

Jesus                                 Christ                              Lord
faith                                   hope                               charity
called                                 justified                          glorified
His good will                       His acceptable will             His perfect will
saved                                 being saved                      shall be saved
milk                                bread + wine                        hidden manna (meat)
body                                   soul                                spirit
female                                male                               neither male nor female
spirit salvation                     soul salvation                   body salvation (glorified body)
30 fold                                60 fold                            100 fold
babes                                 young men                       mature sons
water baptism                      Spirit baptism                  fire baptism
letter of the Word                 Spiritual Word                  Risen Word
bud                                     bloom                             fruit
wool                                    linen                              coat of many colors/glory cloud
brass                                   silver                              gold
waters below firmament         firmament                       waters above firmament
Passover                              Pentecost                        Tabernacles
Christ in you                         You in Christ                    Lambkin on Mt.
death                                   life                                 life everlasting
In the beginning,                  The Word was with God,     And the Word was God
  was the Word                     (Emmanuel, God with us)
                        
And Jesus (outer court/female) was the Word (inner court/male) made (one) flesh (Most Holy place). They are neither male nor female in heaven, not because they are neither one or the other, but because they are BOTH. The male (Spirit) has possessed His female (virgin soul). All flesh, therefore, is "female" to God initially (and therefore in the outer court realm, the court of the "women"), because His Spirit is the one that plants the Seed, ie. IS the Seed. The natural realm bears this witness, as always, as babies are all female until a certain point in their development within the womb. Blessings to all........

« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 12:13:01 AM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2009, 06:46:46 AM »
This is already good. What I am hoping for is that these revelations concerning the tabernacle will change me. I need changing. I feel so carnal lately. To study the word and get cool insights is one thing and to mentally see new things is good but to actually be changed in my very essence is a different thing altogether. cp

 :cloud9: A good friend of mine brought it to my attention, what an excellent sentiment and post this is.  :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2009, 07:20:35 AM »
"He is within this holy tent; the tabernacle of God, burning with love for all mankind, and ready to comfort the afflicted."

The wind tore through the trees with an anguish that tears the heart, as the veil was torn!

peacemaker
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 07:29:14 AM by peacemaker »

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2009, 04:55:26 AM »
 :cloud9: I pulled this over from another thread because I thought it might help here too.

I intended to add some more when I could and I can see I need to explain some of what I posted. There is a macrocosm (world view) and there is a mircocosm (personal view). What I listed in the Tabernacle thread is both at the same time. Let me explain.

In the personal view, all of us obviously have an outer court/body of flesh/desires of the flesh, but we don't all live exclusively out of that realm. But at the same time, in the world view, a lot of people do, that don't yet have a personal relationship with Christ.

The defining factor for whether or not you are in the inner court realm, is whether or not you've been baptized in the HG (regardless of whether or not you speak in tongues). This is an anointing, and the things of the Tabernacle and PEOPLE (priests) were anointed because it meant they were SET APART for service; that's the purpose of anointing.

This is why the candlestick was in this realm because the HG does the works, and the parts of the candlestick reflect both the fruits of the Spirit, and the gifts (gifts that do works empowered by the Spirit) of the Spirit. Hope this helps....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2009, 05:10:46 PM »
 :cloud9: Looks like Taffy heard you, cp.... :bigGrin:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2009, 03:38:49 PM »
Cp. . .that is really the first question we all should be asking ourselves . . ."Where am I?"  Okay, I'm a tabernacle . .but what part of this tabernacle connects with me the most?  Is it the initial salvation?  Is it the crucified Christ?  Do I find myself "needing" to constantly repenting everyday for my sins?  Am I one of those that feels the need to respond to an altar call no matter how often one is given?  Am I happy living my life in "coast" with Chirst?  Totally content on the outskirts of all the ministarial activity?  Do I have absolutely no interest whatsoever to be involved in any kind of ministry at all?  "I don't feel comfortable witnessing because I don't really have any testimony that stands out as a "real" change."  I pretty much lived most of my life in that one.

Those who answer "yes" to the majority of those questions will be one who is living in the outer court.  And for me, it's not all that healthy of a place to "live" or "remain" in.  It's the milk of the relationship . .as opposed to the meat of the matter.  Nothing wrong with milk . ..can't eat cereal without it.  But "living" on milk alone isn't the purpose of milk.  

Paul talks about speaking as a child, thinking and acting as a child when he was a child . .but when he matured, he "put away" the childish things . . .time to have a garage sale in your thinking.

Still haven't been able to move away from this passage in Hebrews just yet . . .this is the Message version of what it says . . .

1-3So come on, let's leave the preschool fingerpainting exercises on Christ and get on with the grand work of art. Grow up in Christ. The basic foundational truths are in place: turning your back on "salvation by self-help" and turning in trust toward God; baptismal instructions; laying on of hands; resurrection of the dead; eternal judgment. God helping us, we'll stay true to all that. But there's so much more. Let's get on with it!

There's a whole other dimension in God for those who find themselves embracing the tangible things that manifest.  Remember what it is that the serpent eats?  Dust.  Is this saying that snakes eat dirt for their diet?  Absolutely not.  It's saying that the serpent thrives on flesh . .and those living in flesh become the next meal.  As long as I embrace the natural realm of things, I will be consumed by them.  Worry is a big part of that . . .fear is another.  We react to what we see rather than ignore what the natural is doing and call out the spiritual to manifest.  We're empowered to release and to bind in the spirit through our INTIMATE relationship with the Father through the Son.  But we don't exercise that which is given to us.  So . . .let's leave behind the elemntary things that got us here and move into the more profitable things . . .

2nd dimension . . .the door into the temple.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2009, 03:49:14 PM »
 :cloud9: Good post Nathan; and you reminded me to add the dust, sand and the stars, to my lists, LOL.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline claypot

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2009, 03:50:38 PM »
Good stuff Nathan! What gives me hope is that even when I want to stop growing, God doesn't stop gardening! I will grow by God!

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline claypot

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2009, 04:19:24 PM »
Here's another thought that's running through my cranium......

Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.  And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,  After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:  That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.acts15.14

Oh this is so cool. God first made the pot marred. Seems like God needed soil for His pet project to grow!

God first made Adam the natural. He did this to cause germination of a royal seed. Out of the 'dirt' came the live plant. God built a new tabernacle out of the old. Oh glorious day!!!!!

Why is God doing this?

So every God anointed aspect of every person will be saved.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2009, 06:09:10 PM »
There is such a great tapestry being created here, I'm going to continue with the main theme of the tabernacle, you guys just keep doing what you've been doing in your conversations of weaving in and out around this and we'll all glean from each other . . .Cardinal . . .I just love that list you posted . .that's just so cool!!!

Okay, putting behind us the first dimension, and looking inward toward the second . . .
This is actually where the church is established . .in the second dimension.  It didn't establish itself there . . .it was predestined by God to be established there.  For me, God's intention is to touch his people with the hands of his people.  And that is the ministry of the church.  It's not just a ministry "in" a church . .it's the ministry "of" the church.  Ministry is not just teaching a class or being involved in a worship team.  I've seen some people just have a wonderful knack at being hosts to their friends and family.  

The Samaritan that was beat up on the highway and was "ministered" to was a great picture of how ministry really should be working . . .it's actually intended to work "outside" the building structure of the church rather than just in the confines of the walls of a building.  There are those who have found a ministry on forums even.  The purpose of ministry is to equip others to equip others . . .to equip others.  Making disciples of one another is the process of equipping people with the appropriate tools to equip other people.  Equip them for what?  Anything . . .Everything . . .it all depends on the specific anointing God has given you personally.  But it's all for the reproducing of Christ in us and others.

Everything is a progression to prepare us to be led into something else.   The purpose of the outer court is to prepare you for the inner court . . the purpose for the inner court is to prepare you for the Holy of Holies . . .now get this  .. . .in the same way . .the salvation we experience is to prepare us for the ministry to lead others into that salvation . .and that ministry we experience is to prepare us to enter into more maturity and intimacy in the realm of rest . . which is essentially the place where the previous ministries are no longer necessary.  It's much like the space shuttle for me . . . in order to get it into the outer atmosphere, they attached temporary boosters to it . .but once it leaves our atmosphere, the boosters are no longer needed so they detach themselves and fall away.

The ministry realm is the boosters that assist us to enter into the holy of holies . .into the kingdom Jesus spent so much time trying to explain . .but once we ourselves "enter" into that realm the emphasis of ministry is no longer necessary as we enter into a realm of rest from which we no longer live according to ministry works . . .but simply "function" as gates .  . . becoming portholes through which others can enter into the kingdom as well.  But so many are embracing their boosters that they won't allow them to release and freely flow into the kingdom.

This also reminds me of this true story of this guy that owned a boat arena . . .not large boats . . .more like fishing boats and recreational boats . . .had pretty good sized motors on them, but not like ocean stuff . . .anyway, a guy that had just bought a fishing boat from him came back and complained that the boat wasn't performing well at all.  He couldn't get it up to a plain even though the motor was more than capable to do so . . and it was really sluggish in the steering . .it felt like it was plowing more than anything.  It was a first-time boat owner so it could be "anything" or just normal for boats . . .so the owner that sold the boat went out to the dock where the boat was . . .started the motor . .everything was running fine . . .put it in gear and slowly headed out to open water . . .everything still seemed fairly normal . . . it did steer okay and even though it wasn't cutting the water like a canoe, it did seem to move okay, but this was all at a no-wake speed.

So finally he opened it up and sure enough, the steering was very unresponsive and the boat wouldn't plain at all.  So he took it back to the dock and as he went to check out the prop . . .it was then he realized the problem . . .the new owner of the boat still had the trailor attached.  Trailors, like spaceshuttle boosters . .have their purpose, but once you reach your destination, there's a separation from trailor and boat.  And for me, it's the same way spiritually . . .when my ministry has taken me to where God intended for it to take me in my spiritual walk . . .there comes a time where the ministry is to be detached so that I can effectively and freely experience the realm of the kingdom of rest.

So even though ministry is necessary . . .I believe for those who come into the maturity of their relationships, the ministry emphasis is no longer necessary as we enter into the realm of rest.  But that's not to say minitry in and of itself is no longer necessary . . . there are hoards of other people that "need" to experience the same route that others have already taken them that brought them into the holy of holies . .so we can't say that it's bad or needs to be removed . . .we're just simply saying there's yet a whole other realm beyond the one of ministry.

I've really jumped over some stuff going into this . . .I'll post another post that is detailing more of what the holy place is in regards to ministry and why we're seeing it connected as such.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2009, 08:38:17 PM »
In a sense, understanding the symbolism of the tabernacle will also explain to you, just who it is you are . . so they kind of "are" connected.  But I appreciate your sensitivity bro.

In the overlay of an actual body in the tabernacle, the altar of insence being the feet . . .the laver beign the side . . .in the holy place, there are the three articles that comprise of the ministry of the church.  In the body, this is likened to the chest cavity for me in that this is where all the vital organs of essential life are protected within the membrane that separates the heart and lungs from the rest of the functioning organs.  The activity to maintain life.  The living, the breathing, the heart pumping the blood throughout the rest of the body.  The lungs pump in the air, the heart pumps out the blood.

The activity of the priests are what keep the temple active in this realm of the temple.  They have to harvest the olive, crush them to collect the oil, keep the wiks trimmed so the fire never stops burning so the bread is always being illuminated . .this is how the Scriptures work . . the Scripture is the bread, the fire in the candlestick is the illuminator . .the candlestick is Christ, the flames are the same as the seven stars in his "right" hand in Revelation.

Revelation 1:20
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches

The branch represents the church . . .the light in the bowl containing the flame . . .same as the stars . ..stars are illuminators . . .angels simply mean messengers . . .doesn't mean winged creatures flying around in the invisible realm.  A wandering star is considered to be a false prophet, according to Jude . . .same as a cloud without water . . .giving the promise of something it can't deliver.

A star that wanders is one that has an ever changing message . . .do you have any idea how many times the "rapture" theory has been revised?  Promises and predictions keep being "prophesied" only to turn out to be lies in the end . . .and the prophesy'er must justify why they got it wrong . .every turn of every century, there has been a huge increase and inflation of the rapture doctrine . . .they continue to push it further and further into the future so that their doctrine can live on and continue.

But in the temple . . .these stars are stationed, they are fixed in one place . .they have one purpose  . . .to illuminate the bread.  Jesus said "he" is the bread of life . . . the message of the illuminators should be that Christ is all in all.  Nothing less, nothing more.  But instead, because they see they have been God "sent" they begin claiming God "said" and there message turns from Christ to man's current affairs . . .when the purpose for the fire in the candle stick is not to accomodate the current state of the priests . . .but it was to illuminate the bread.

May the message be clear, powerful and strong . . .you are called by God to "be" his witness.  You are equipped by the Spirit to carry that call out.  We're not to identify ourselves according to ourselves in what we feel, see, or do, but we're to identify ourselves according to what's been proclaimed over us . .and that is that we are kings and we are priests.  And as priests, our message is to illuminate Christ.  The lampstand illuminates the 12 loaves of bread . . .12 is the number of government . . .God's government is not religion, but righteousness and relationship.

The candlestick was created out of one solid chunk of Gold, it was pounded and pounded until it began to take shape and become a magnifisent work of hand-crafted art that formed a lampstand, a holder of the flames . . .as is also portrayed in Revelation when Jesus was seed "in" the candlestick.  

Again, this is where the ministry of the church is.  For the fire to burn, for the bread to be fresh, for the wine to be full, for the insence to burn . . .this all required labor and planning and constant ministering of the priests.  For those who have any kind of ministry in any given body, be it in or outside of the church building . . ."this" is where that ministry is represented and established "in" us. This is where the desire to reach out to another in any form . .manifests in us.  We become ministers to each other as some are illuminators of the bread, others are the ones that collect the ingredients for the bread to be made . .and others are there to handle the hot items and conversations as the bread bakes in the furnace of others.   Everyone has their role of ministry predestined in their dna before they're even born.

Your ministry is that which manifests out of you with no plan or thinking on your part . .it just comes easy to you.  Some people can speak in public . .others shudder to even think of that . . .yet they have a great talent with children . . .on and on.  The reason God calls you to do a specific ministry is because he's already equipped you for it.  It may not be as polished as you think others are . . .but he may not want "polished" to be part of your personal ministry . .. he has other people who fit that bill.  When we just live "in" the ministry we're equipped to do, that's all that is requested of us.
 
So, the illumination of the bread then leads to the third piece and that is the altar of incense . . .

Offline claypot

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2009, 10:08:24 PM »
So Nathan, why is this tabernacle so mystical? Why is it so complicated? I suppose it's not complicated to one more attuned to mystical or spiritual vibes. There sure are treasures hidden in all this.

This tabernacle sure leaves the physical in the dust doesn't it? I mean I believe there was and probably will be a physcial tabernacle but the details of it all are clearly meant to be spiritual revealtions to us. It's like a message from home.

cp

For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2009, 11:04:44 PM »
Basically, I see it as the inner workings that makes us be us . .. we all have this activity within us . . .we all have a comfort zone . . . you know . . .that "space" that we all have that is invisible until a person comes up and breaches that space???  That's part of your outer court . . .  Your natural appearance is your outer court.

I want to put this out there while it's in front of me . . .many struggle over the "mysterious" or "secretive" aspect to the truths lying beneath the surface . . . they'll even get defensive and tell you that there is nothing that is a mystery . . .yet Paul states it clearly that there are many things about God that are a mystery to man . . .the mystery of Christ in you . . .the hope of glory . . .In Peter's writings . .he comments about Paul's writings being hard to understand . .but really . .they're not, they're just coming from a level of intimacy in relationship . .and that level can not be measured by man either . . . when you watch kids interact with each other . . .there's an age they reach where they aren't quite so friendly with each other as they once were when they were younger . .they actually become quite rude and crude against other kids that are "different". 

Spiritually, the same thing happens .  . initially, everyone is friendly to every body . . .until their friendship gets a little age on it, then the measuring begins . .first in secret, then to their face.  It's just the process of maturity that we all go through.  So I wouldn't get to out of joint with the crowd that tend to sneer at the idea that you see something in Scripture they're not seeing.  But here's the key to all of it . . .it goes back to the foundation of the temple . . . who builds it in the first place?

Did Christ give us the blue print and tell us that in our intellect we will be able to figure it out on our own?  I think that was one of the most telling things that manifested when Jesus asked his disciples "Who do men say that I am?"  Everyone had "their own" opinion of what they "reasoned" within themselves as to who Jesus was . . .and none of them were accurate.  But Peter  . .of all people . . this rugged, short fused, narrow-minded, stubborn, gruff man Peter got a kiss from the King and "saw" who Jesus was . .not because of his great ability to reason . . .but because God just simply uncovered the truth and revealed it to him.

The act of "revelation" or as I like to call it . . ."revelating" is the rock that Christ is building on.  Christ is building his church upon the avenue that God uses to illuminate his Son to us . .  .upon the act of revelation . . .uncovering . . .all we have to do is get ourselves in the realm where truth is illuminating . ..  I just love that passage.  Funny thing, at the end of that piece when the seed was planted and they were moving on to other things . . Scripture says that Jesus instructed them to keep this between themselves.  Don't go out and tell people that revelation from God is the key to seeing who Christ really is.  I believe there were two reasons for that.

One . . .you can revelate until you're blue in the face and if those you are with are embracing the things that are tangible to them . . they're just not going to see any of it.  I have told my church time and again . .be careful who you share this with . .discern the fields that you enter . . .if they're ripe, then break out your sickle, if they are green, then hold your tongue . .there is a season for the planting and a season for the harvest.  Can't plant a seed if their ground is froze solid . .and you can't harvest their field if they are still very green in their growth.

The second reason why I think Jesus told them to keep this to themselves is because their is an order to this . . .it doesn't come by knowing "about" God . . .it comes by experiencing him "in" you.  We all have to experience the experience.  Jesus was aligning these disciples of his in such a way that they would get to the point to where they themselves could hear from God directly . . .which is what the Peter experience is all about.  But there was a process that they had to be led through . . .it's the same with everyone . . .it's the same with the tabernacle . .the priest could not just waltz into the holy of hoiies whenever "he" chose . .there was a series of experiences he first had to accomplish . ..salvation is simply the first step . . .and just because one is in ministry does not qualify one to experience personal revelation . . . it isn't until we enter into the "realm" of rest that we can see and accomplish the work of Christ from a position of rest . . .You may have met my wife . . .but only "I" am married to her.

Well . .there are a lot of people who may know "about" God . . .study up on where he's been . .what he's said . . .how he acted  . . .but only a few are actually "married" to him.  Those that are married are those that "know" him intimately . .and through that relationship, he let's the veil down so we can see his face . .his true identity.  And at that point, we no longer argue about what we think we know, we simply share what we "see".  Let the spiritual paragnas tear the message apart as they will, but there's a veil in our life that we pass through where our weapons of warfare truly do get transformed into plowshares.  The tabernacle is simply a reflection of that process.

The things hidden are not hidden "from" us . .they are hidden "for" us.  It is a special, unexplainable thing to be in the chamber room of Christ and see his nature in places others can't.  Nobody is better than anybody else here . . . it's got nothing to do with measuring our knowledge and seeing who can spit the furthest . . .the disciples even argued over who would sit where . .they were still living in the old covenant while walking with the New.

One last thing . .in Revelation, John is instructed "not" to measure the outer court as it is going to be given over to the Gentiles . . .a Gentile is considered an outsider, not an insider.  The outer appearance of a man is often measured and judged by the outsiders. .. but we're to judge no man . . . and that's really all that's saying there . . .stop measuring the outer court of another.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2009, 12:05:47 AM »
Jeeze, I feel like Mickiel on this thread . . ."and I want to get into that . . ." :laughing7:

The holy place can also be connected to the workings of our minds . . .it's all about the activity of man interchanging with the will of God.  The fires can never go out . .the worm never dies .  . . there's A LOT of labor involved into the ministry of the tabernacle.  We can  . . .I'm not so sure how much this will connect with the forum members beigns that most seemingly are not attending or are actively engaged in a church . . .and to you I want to emphasize . . .just because you're not in a church membership . .does not mean you are not in ministry.  In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that organized church really has little to do with the ministry of the saints.  Having said that, I also want to state again that the organized church is what it is, with it's short-sightedness and stubborn boundaries and such . . . it's still a necessary part of our maturity in Christ.  Maybe it's better simulated with boot camp .  . . there is much complaining with how things are done, but God seems to be able to use the process to effectively mature Christ in us.  You don't know your true self until you're exposed to pressure . .and the church can definitely come into play in that role.

This working mind . . . there are so many levels that the tabernacle can be relevant . . .you could actually step up even closer to this and see that the whole operation of the tabernacle could be the mind itself.  The way we think . . .the mind being tied very closely to tangible matters . . . our thinking reacts very quickly to our feeling.  Interestingly, just as there is a five-fold ministry . .there are also the physical 5 senses in our body . .everything seen is connected to everything unseen.  I'll leave that one simmer in you for a bit.

You guys ever utilize the website "Earth Google"?  It's astounding how you can literally drop in on someones back yard from the air.  The first picture you see is the globe . . .as you zoom in, you're still seeing the same globe, but the closer you get, the more detailed your picture becomes.  It has many advantages to that . . but the disadvantage is . .the closer you get to your target, the less you can see of the bigger picture.  And that's the mystery of the spirit . .another mystery . . .when you're in the spirit, it magnifies the details of God's nature . .while at the same time, you still can see the over all picture . . .kind of like seeing the end from the beginning . . . they say eagles have the same ability with their eyes as well.

At any rate. . .there is much to be digested when dealing with the tabernacle.  There is so much symbolism there.  It is God establishing law to reveal the work that Christ completed, he's revealing Christ's nature, he's revealing man's nature . . .it's all in there on different levels.  And they were right, this really does sorta require it's own thread because it can entail so many different levels of understanding.


Offline claypot

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2009, 12:06:55 AM »
Nathan, you got to write a book on all this stuff. I'm off to read it again. Thanks.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2009, 01:33:15 AM »
Enjoying the Thread guys, Thanks  , good stuff

:icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2009, 01:59:27 AM »
ah . . .there are some actually reading this then . . . good enough . . .

You can take each separate article and spend hours and hours on what each one is to represent and it's effects on the other elements.  Each "dimension" in the ark is also consistent with another pattern of God.  When you read up on that statue in Daniel that Nebuchadnezzar saw, there was an order and a depletion of value to the elements used in the idol . . .the head was gold, the arms and chest were silver, the thighs were bronze and the feet were iron and clay . . .it was revealed that each of these different elements were connected to different nations overtaking Israel.  And each time there was a change of possession, the purity of the elements diminished.

The tabernacle has the same pattern . .. showing us the importance of each dimension . . .in the outer court, the altar of sacrifice was made with bronze or brass . .as was the laver . . .it's the same element that Goliath was dressed in.  It's patterned after judgment.  The wages of sin is death . . .death was the judgment.  The laver was also overlaid with women's looking glasses . . .or, what we'd call their mirrors. 

Here's one for you . . .the guy who God hand-picked to fashion these articles for the temple, his name was Bezaleel.  Just out of curiousity, I looked up the meaning . . .get this . . .it means "shadow".

Can you believe it!!!  God chose Shadow to fashion the shadow of Christ in the making of the tabernacle.  Man . . .you can't make this stuff up if ya tried!!

But he took the mirrors of the women . . .again, when reading patterns, and "woman" comes up . .that is always connected to your soul . . to your mind . . .these women offered their mirrors . .items used to reflect the "image" of your face . .your identity . . .the laver, the basin that was used to "wash" to "cleanse" the priest . . .it's what washes "you".  Again, it's connected to the lake of fire and they both serve the exact same purpose.  God's cleansing fire is used to purge and to cleanse . .the laver was used to wash the blood . . . the result of the sin offerings . .washed, purified and cleansed the priests . . .made of "womens" image reflecters . .are you seeing the connections of how this particular article in the tabernacle is connected with the renewing of your . . .MIND???

God doesn't require "you" to do this . . .it's the order he's established for ALL who come through the east gate . . .which is the entrance to the temple . . .by passing through Judah, the tribe that sets at the east gate . . Judah means praise remember . . .to even enter into the tabernacle, you must come "in" praise as you offer up your sacrifice (of praise) to the Lord as he releases you from the bonds of sin . . .sin removed, mind must then be purified through the baptism of water, spirit . .and fire . . .Christ is the ultimate sacrifice . . . he is also the laver.  The word washes . .he is the Word. He purges and cleanses the imagry and idolatry from your mind as it's renewed here in the baptism of spirit . . .which equips you . .gives you "power" to BE his witness . . .and the baptism of fire is a much deeper and sometimes harsher cleansing . . . we got a lot a ugly in us that affects us on many levels . . .and God has a baptism for each one.

Offline onlytruth

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2009, 02:55:49 AM »
don't stop!...how it all connects,makes you want to sing!
thanks for sharing nathan :icon_king:

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2009, 07:42:10 PM »
I'm going to still stay focused on the tabernacle . . .but I'd like to take a bit of a different approach on this post and relay what can be seen from the book of Revelation when seeing the tabernacle . . .when John received this revelation . . .he was on the island "Patmos" which means "place of my killing".  which essentially is the east gate of the tabernacle where the altar of sacrifice is located.  Death must always first occur before life can manifest.  Jesus didn't come just to die, he came to bring resurrection life, but the order of God is that for life to come, death must first occur. 

Before I enter the temple, there is a death in me that must first transpire.  Just as the priests removed the life from the literal beasts that were offered to them by the people, so I to must also offer up the beast within me to be sacrificed that I may advance into the kingdom of life and light.  Revelation also makes it clear the mark of this beast is simply the mark of man . . .carnality.  My nature must be put to death . . .John the Baptist put it another way . . "I must decrease that he may increase"  It all starts with a death.  So it's no wonder that John received this revelation of life at the place of his killing . . .

Revelation 1
10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,  11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.  12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
 13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.  14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;  15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.  16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.  17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:  18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
 19Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;  20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.


That's the text . . .I want to try to pull some stuff up here and hopefully others reading this will jump in and revelate what they've been shown also.  I don't want to be a one-man show here . .hint, hint . ..

10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

 Thet day of the Lord is a study in and of itself.  But the book of Revelation is really not as unique from the other books as many people may think.  It's written in the same manner as anything else Jesus spoke of . . .it's in parabolic form.  Signs and symbols.  John is in the spirit . . .and it's on the Lord's day . . .like everything else in Revelation . . .it's not depicting a literal day . .. meaning it was not on the Sabbath, or Sunday . .that really has no bearing whatsoever . .but when he refers to being on the Lord's day . . .it was a sign to those who understood what the day of the Lord was all about.  It's not a measure of time, but it's the realm of Christ. 

And here's the ironic piece . . .first understand nothing is coincidence, everything is revealed with purpose, on purpose.  So when John hears a voice "behind" him . .it's drawing a picture on purpose.  Before John could "see" he had to repent . . .he had to turn around.  Even in the Spirit, even being at the place of his killing . . .he couldn't see until he turned.  The trumpet speaks of a new proclamation.  The year of Jubilee . . .Jubilee means long blast . . .it comes every 50 years.  When one experiences Jubilee, in their culture that God established, if you lost the farm somewhere in the 49 years since the last Jubilee . . .on the 50th, no matter who had it for what reason . .everything you lost is returned to you, no questions asked.  Israel was never to sell their land.  It was theirs for all time.  Debts were erased, families that had to go into slavery to pay debts were returned . .and land was returned.  What this trumpet means to me . .beings it's the first of many blasts to come . .is that this is a proclamation that what John was about to see was the year of Jubilee had come.

11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea

For me, there are a couple things here . .one, if you had a map and marked out each of these churches . .it would form a circle . . .a wedding ring given to a bride . .we are the bride . .these 7 churches . .because it was not six, or eight, but seven . . then we want to be sure to grasp the meaning of the number . . . and seven is the number of completion and fulfillment.  It's documented in Revelation more times than all of the other books put together times ten (fig of speech there).  God is revealing his son, this is a Peter experience, the Rock that Christ built his church upon . . this is the documented form of that rock.  This is a "revelation".  It is not taught by flesh and blood, though many are trying . . .but it only comes by way of "unveiling" by the Father through our relationship with the Son.

12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;  13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle

Now were beginning to get into the reason why this is impressed in my heart to even go here . . .The revelation of Jesus Christ began "in" the temple . .this is "the" temple.  That's why the blueprint was given first . .so when we came to the original mold and not a replica, we'd be able to identify with it on a more personal level.  After John turned, notice again how he made it very clear that turning around was so important.  If we don't bend, if we don't flex, if we don't turn, we'll never be able to see.  The first thing John sees is the candle sticks . . .they are not in the holy of holies . .they are not in the third dimension, but they are in the second.  This is why I stated that the church is established in the second dimension and not the third.  I'll explain "why" later.

But Christ "is" the candlestick.  Note again the number seven . . .this is a revelation of Christ . . .it's no longer something you see through darkly . .but it's full, it's complete, it's whole.  The candlestick in Moses tabernacle was solid gold . .the other articles in the holy place were wood overlaid with gold.  This is a picture of man "in" God.  But when it's solid gold . . .it's all God.  Remember the order we mentioned earlier about the diminishing quality of the elements things were made from?  The more you advance toward the holy of holies, the more pure the articles are.  It was brass in the outer court . .the boundary of the tabernacle was outlined by a 6 foot high canvas and the posts supporting the temple were inserted into footings made of silver . . .which is connected to redemption.  But in the Holy of holies . .it was all gold.  Because the candlestick was not wood overlaid with gold, but solid gold, that depicted it represents Christ . . .and here in Revelation it's clearly seen that Christ is the one holding the churches . .as the bread is illuminated "through" us . . . Just how true is our light that illuminates the bread?

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2009, 08:17:07 PM »
 :cloud9: Excellent Nate, keep pouring...... :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor