Author Topic: Experiencing the Tabernacle  (Read 16799 times)

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Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2009, 05:31:30 PM »
:cloud9: My reason is, 1) the Lord showed it to me, and 2) the flesh WARS against the Spirit continually  :winkgrin:. Blessings....

I understand . . .  And I don't . . .yeah, sorry about that . . . your #2 . . . are you saying that because my flesh continually wars with my spirit that I can not build the temple of God?

If you are . .then I totally agree . .the temple being built is not ours to build . . .Just as Jesus told David that David would not build a house for him, but that He (Christ) would build a house for David, I believe it's the exact same thing for us . . .we are/were a people of warfare . .and you can't build a temple of rest by initiating warfare.  For me, the warfare has it's place in the process of freeing and maturing the saints . .but the pursuit shouldn't be in reenforcing the armies with more weapons . .but the pursuit should be once the battle has been won, the weapons need to be transformed into plowshares in our lives.  We may get recruited in God's army for a season . .but I don't see the warfare as something that is to be a permenant part of our life . .it is as you said . . I can't enter into rest when there is constant battling going on with in me that "I'm" trying to fight .  .

Anyone have any understanding on the symbolism of a footstool?

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #51 on: March 05, 2009, 05:44:32 PM »
thinking about it in your terms . . .isn't it so much more of an honor to have the Messiah come through your lineage than to build a building?  And if God was telling David that he's not worthy to build a building because of this sin with this man, who was more than just a soldier in David's army, but that's another sermon . . .but if David is not worthy to build a physical temple . .how would he then be worthy to be "in" the lineage of Jesus?

 :cloud9: I replied the first time, Nathan, apparently before you modified your post and added the above.....

Yes it is much more of an honor to have the Messiah come through your lineage than to build a building.

Let's rephrase that; yes it is much more of an honor to build a spiritual house, than it is a natural one.

David's fleshly efforts weren't worthy, any more than ours are, but when he was anointed at the direction of the Lord, he received a new heart, ie. David has a heart after the Lord. And like all men (mankind) in the inner court realm which David represents, there is a battle between the flesh and the Spirit. David chose in that one instant, to allow the flesh to win out, and he paid for it dearly as the union he desired only produced death.

And then there's the matter of God visiting the sin of the father upon his other son, Absalom who rebelled against the King to overthrow him. Everywhere David looked the Lord had placed a mirror. Blessings...
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 05:47:01 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #52 on: March 05, 2009, 05:46:13 PM »

Anyone have any understanding on the symbolism of a footstool?

 :cloud9: I don't know if it's what you're referring to, but He has shown me something about a footstool......
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2009, 05:57:30 PM »
:cloud9: My reason is, 1) the Lord showed it to me, and 2) the flesh WARS against the Spirit continually  :winkgrin:. Blessings....

I understand . . .  And I don't . . .yeah, sorry about that . . . your #2 . . . are you saying that because my flesh continually wars with my spirit that I can not build the temple of God?

 :cloud9: Actually, what I was referring to there was the war that made David unable to build the temple for God. We looked at it and thought it was the natural literal wars, but what I was saying is that God showed me it was blood of a different type, and a different sort of war, that disqualified him. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2009, 05:59:25 PM »
It's not connected to our previous conversation . . .it's just something I just came across when I was trying to find that passage I quoted in Kings . . .but I found this other passage mentioning a footstool and in the footnotes, it stated that the actual definition was "house of rest" and I realized that the footstool under God's feet is a postion and picture of rest . . .that God would make all of David's enemies his footstool is saying that Rest is coming to the house of David . . .and when God says the "earth" is his footstool . . .it's saying the same thing about the earth . . .Jesus is the manifestation of that Truth . . .Rest came to the earth and brought resurrection from sin and death.

What do you have on it?

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2009, 06:06:29 PM »
 :cloud9: Different teaching (too long and not on topic to add here) but same end result basically. There's a point in our walk where we agree with the adversary while we are in the way with him, and then he becomes our footstool, ie. that which elevates the feet (this generation that is to walk Him around in shoe leather). True peace is when the flesh is no longer warring against the Spirit, and when that happens the adversary is no longer needed (as an adversary), but becomes part of the righteousness of God (think Moses's snake swallowing up the other snakes). Blessings....

« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 06:11:03 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Zeek

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2009, 06:41:30 PM »
Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them. Blessings....

 This part of your post, spoke to me; in that the "inner court realm", to me; the firstfruits turn over the souls to Christ through their own death/baptism; which was "for" those who had not moved on into the inner court. 

in other words, their baptism into death was for a purpose, and it was for others.

as in, Christ's death, burial, resurrection for the "body", the first fruits; and the first fruits baptism for the "harvest". 

hope that makes sense, or maybe only makes sense to me.   :bigGrin:
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 06:44:05 PM by Zeek »

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2009, 06:49:15 PM »
Yeah, that seems to make a lot of sense  . . . between you and Cardinal . . .your comments are the best I've seen in connection with people being baptized for the dead . . .never made that connection before!!

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2009, 07:21:17 PM »
Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them. Blessings....

 This part of your post, spoke to me; in that the "inner court realm", to me; the firstfruits turn over the souls to Christ through their own death/baptism; which was "for" those who had not moved on into the inner court. 

in other words, their baptism into death was for a purpose, and it was for others.

as in, Christ's death, burial, resurrection for the "body", the first fruits; and the first fruits baptism for the "harvest". 

hope that makes sense, or maybe only makes sense to me.   :bigGrin:

 :cloud9: Ok, now I know which way you were going with that, thanks. Good point. I'm off caffeine permanently now as of two weeks ago, and I thought for a moment there, I needed that morning cup of coffee REAL bad, LOL.... :laughing7:

Yes, absolutely right. The Son is a servant. The firstfruits lay down their lives, and become as "dry land bridge" (waters of death have receded off of) for the others to cross over by. Same principle as seeing angels ascending and descending on a ladder. A bridge is nothing but a horizontal "ladder".

So with this principle we can see how the inner court (realm of Christ) is like a bridge or a ladder, between man and God, with "angels" (priests) ascending (to Holy of Holies) and descending (to outer court).

This is why the Spirit as a dove descended on Jesus in the Jordan. The dove (Noah's ark example) finally found a dry place to set her foot (the waters of death could not hold Him). Blessings.....
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 07:28:04 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2009, 11:00:37 PM »
Okay . . .regrouping on the theme here . . .
Tabernacle overlay . . . altar of sacrifice = feet.  Laver = His side.  Lamp stand = right hand.  Shewbread = Left hand.  Altar of incense = head . . .veil of understand, but now removed . .the veil is what is over our minds . . Scripture says it's still over the minds of many who conitnue filling their pews, reading the Scriptures, but still can not see, hear the message, still can not hear . . .

Christ ripped the veil from the top to bottom . . .again . .the order is on purpose.  Scritpure speaks of us being written epistles . . .our lives are documented tapestry of God's nature.  His sovreignty, his power, authority, love . .on and on . . .each of us have his nature "in" us and we are walking testaments that testify of his righteousness, grace and mercy.  This veil however was the separation between our understanding and God's reality.  And when Jesus died, just like the will and testiment goes "into" affect, the veil did just the opposite, it no longer needed to be "in" affect.  God exposed his heart to all men ... just as he exposed his heart previously to only Peter James and John . . a fraction of the 12 . . . only the death, burial and resurrection of Christ would be able to reveal that to all men . .and still . . .only a fraction can yet see it.

But the veil ripped from top . . .to bottom . .with purpose, on purpose.  The blindness was rent from my mind, to my walk . .from my head to my feet.  And now, as Paul so brazenly states, we can now go "boldly" to the throne . .with purpose, on purpose . . .we don't have to tie a rope to our feet in fear of death while approaching the source of life.  Our worthiness has been made complete through the blood of the Lamb. . slain from the foundation of the world . . .which tells me that the death that occured 2,000 years ago was only a physical manifestion of what was already completed in the spirit LONG, LONG AGO...

5 elements in the tabernacle lead up to where we are now, beholding the ark itself.  This truly is a Grace walk ordained and appointed unto man by God.  Each step was a preparation for the next.  And now, the two courts become one.  The Holy of holies and the holy place are all one room.  This is Zechariah 4 all over again.  The two cherub that rest above the ark 'on' the mercy seat . . .what a great picture that is.  the two witnesses, the two anointed ones that stand before God . . .Christ and the Holy Spirit peering across each other "eye to eye" . . .that's actually why "two or more" is relevant here. 

The "agree on any one thing . . ." is actually saying that when two can see eye to eye.  It's the same with Isaiah's misused and abuse passage of coming together to "reason".  It is not men trying to reason with men, but it is God challenging us to reason wth "him".  It's more of an alignment .. . coming to see "eye to eye" with light and life so our vision can be healed.  The fact that it's called a mercy "seat" tells me to things . .one, it speaks of rest . .but this entire room wreaks of the message of rest . . .but also . . . the "seat" speaks of authority.

1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,  2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:  3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

This is the opening lines of the heaviest scathing rebuke Jesus gave to the church.  Through all of this chapter, Jesus is speaking directly to the scribes and Pharisees . .the religious of the religious . . .he cried over the fact that Jerusalem left herself empty and wouldn't let the love of God fill her.  The first verse of Matthew 24 is one of the saddest . . .Jesus "left" the temple.  It was actually this very religious system that brought the announcment of his coming . . .yet they rejected his presence and it even bothered his disciples to hear him be so hard on them.  In Matthew 24, immediately following this rebuke, the disciples tried to get Jesus to lighten up a bit and give respects to the builders of the manmade buidings around them . . .including the temple he just turned his back on . . .

Nuts . .I gotta go . . .add more later.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2009, 11:59:52 PM »
Okay, the disciples were still feeling the stinging rebuke from what just transpired and as they left, these guys were trying to get Jesus to pay respects to the builders expertise in creating such magnificent work . . .now think about that . . .Jesus just ripped those guys up one side and down the other and yet the disciples want him to pay tribute to the ones who built what he just rebuked.  Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Then Jesus gave another revelation . . .not one stone . . .he's not "just" talking about this building, and whether they realized it or not . . .neither were they when they wanted him to notice how great the buildings were.  But both he and they were actually speaking about the entire house of the religious system . .and that's also who he was talking to when he verbally tore it down.  First, he called it out, then . .it came to be. 

The last verse of chapter 23 . . .there's something here that has struck me just now . . .
39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Think about that . . . "you won't see . .until you profess FIRST."  You want to have a revelation of Jesus Christ?  It takes an act of faith to proclaim it . . .and it is in faith where you can then "see" truth manifest.  He's telling them AFTER they say "blessed is he that cometh in the name (nature) of the Lord THEN they will see him henceforth.  Just thinking out loud there . . .

But the whole point to this was, Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and scribes, yes, but he was prophecying over the seat . .the authority of Moses . . the law . .the physical disciplinary system.  But in the tabernacle . . .the message is not judgment, but one of mercy . . . and grace . . .

Zechariah 4
7Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.

The message of God is no longer one of judgment and rebuke, but one of grace.  Zerubbabel was the one appointed by God to rebuild the temple . . .he's a type of Christ as Jesus came and God removed the old religious system and Christ established a new temple . .he's the one that built it and it's not on law, religion and works . .but it's built on faith, hope and love. . . "in" us.  So rather than us finding our identity in Christ be entering a church . . .his identity manifests through us as he took his church from without, to within.

That's what the mercy seat is all about.  it is the sixth element in the tabernacle.  The ark is in two pieces.  The mercy seat is the covering, the ark itself is a simple box containing three more elements . . .and they are the heart of God.  They are the three-in-one.  The manna, the law and the budding rod . .the rod indicates to me, authority again.  The law is rightness and the manna is the daily communion of Christ in us.

Manna was not collected on the earth . . .that's not where sustaining life ever is.  It is actually a returning of the garden for them . . .Scripture says they were covered and led by a cloud . . . not of smoke . . .ever go out in the early summer morning and have the morning fog be so dense you could barely see in front of your face?  The garden was much like that in the "mist" would arise from within the earth . .and wash the face of the ground . . .that's just so cool.  The mist (spirit) would rise (ascend, elevate . .upper room experience) and wash . .(duh, cleanse, purify) the face (identity) of the earth (flesh).  In another thread we were just talking about how the kingdom of God is "in" you.  From out of "you", your earth, this mist does ascend, and it washes, it cleanses and purifies your ability to identify yourself with your creator . . .

At any rate, the mist would form on the surface of the earth and it was upon that dew that the manna would rest upon.  Very much like how worship sets the atmosphere for the manna to be received into the hearts of the congregation.  Worship is what brings all of the different opinions into the alignment of "unity" in Christ.  We're all singing "the same" song.  We're all in "the same" rhythm, we're all singing and haromonizing in "the same" key.  It's not so much a balance scale where it's half and half . . .it's more like a compass . .or like the opening of a valve . . .the lever goes verticle which releases his anointing "into" us as we turn our eyes to him and not on us . . .we put our minds beneath our spirits . . .and all heaven breaks loose in us.

This is the foundation for the manna to rest upon our earth . .upon our nature . . . and we can feast upon the bread of life.  Which by the way, tastes like honey.  The manna is Christ, the Son of God.  Aaron's rod, a dead branch that turned green, blossomed and produced fruit . . .three dimensions there as well.  It is the spirit that breathes upon the word that makes it come alive in us. 

The third is the law . . .it's the framework of rightness.  It is what manifests in us when we accept him into our hearts . .along with the life of the spirit . . .along with the sustaining virtue of truth and substance.  This is Christ . .this is God.  This is why I just love the mount of transfiguration story. 

Israel broke God's heart.  The day Eli's sons . .Eli was the high priest of his day, his sons were supposedly upcoming priests but God removed Eli's dynasty from the temple due to his sons perversions and Eli's passiveness to allow it to go on.  At any rate, they took the ark down to the battle front . . .the ark represents the presence of God . . .this is actually what almost got me kicked out of the denomination last October by the way . . . my superiors are extremely concerned about me sharing dimensional things . .go figure.

But the ark is where God resides . .so it's not that big of a stretch to then see that it represents God's presence.  And there was only one way it could be moved, and that was on long wooden poles . . oversized rods . . .which again are what?  Authority.  Made of wood . . .dead trees . .a tree had to die before it could be crafted into something that God's presence could ride on.  Men are as trees . . .

But instead of them winning that battle, they lost not only the battle, but Eli's sons were killed and the ark was stolen.  The enemy didn't know honor from awe . . .in their eyes, it was another self-gratifying way to appease their own desires . . .serve another god, worship another idol . .made no difference to them . . .but this time . .it cost them much.

But to shorten the story . . ."when" Israel finally did get the ark back . . .the only thing ever mentioned being in it was the stone tablets.  Remember what these three things represent?  You had law, life, and daily manna, sustaining health. . . you had God, Christ, and the spirit . . . when they took God's presence and attempted to use Him for their own lusts . . .they failed miserably and even after the ark was returned, they were forced to live with the only identity left . . .and that was law.

If you think about it . . .Israel didn't even have their first king yet . . .and I bet there's a connection there as well in that Samuel was the last judge . . God didn't want them to have a king, but they saw what their neighbors had . . they compared themselves according to themselves and found themselves in want . ..so they demanded to have a king like that of their enemies . . .that just sounds odd.

But at that same time was when they assumed the ark was like a credit card and they could just wave it around like it was a cure all with out giving any thought to submission to God's order and for the entire time Israel had a king . . .through the entire Old Testament . . .all the way up to the mount of transfiguration . . .Israel went with the only identity left in the ark . . .the stone tablets.

But when Peter, James and John saw Jesus with Elijah and Moses . . they saw God's heart being healed.  And it all had to do with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.  That was the first time since the ark was lost, that all three elements were returned to their rightful place.  The very temple Jesus turned his back on, he was also healing.  When the temple's veil was ripped, the ark was revealed.  Healing of the nations had come.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 04:23:27 PM by Nathan »

Offline Nathan

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2009, 10:14:58 PM »
May be the last post on this directly, we'll see where it goes . . .

The ark of God comes in two pieces . . .one is the mercy seat . .the other is the ark itself that contains the three elements.  For me, I see this to be a picture of the Father and Son . . .the nature of God is law, manna and life . . .the nature of Christ is . . .mercy.  The room itself is where the Spirit fits in . . .10x10x10 . . .dimensions of the reign of rest.  The more we mature in him, the more we realize it's his work being done in us, not us at all.  Jesus rests in the Father, just as the mercy seat rests on the ark. 

Another thing that struck me when they lost the ark . . .the enemy had no idea or formal instruction on how to move the ark . . .yet there is no record of anyone dying from touching the ark . . .and there is proof the ark had to have been touched . ..the manna and Aaron's staff were missing.  I believe that only the Jews were to die from touching it but I've no proof of that.  My only defense is that God doesn't require Gentiles to adhere to Jewish law.  So why would he then kill them for touching it when that law wasn't for them, but for the Jews.

When Uzzah touched the ark and died, they'd already broken a cardinal law by building a wooden cart.  What I'm about to tell you here, is what I shared at a pastor's meeting back in October that got me in very much hot water.  Still am actually . . .spoke with the powers that be just yesterday and they're still giving me the same speech they gave me then . . ."we're not upset, but if God has you in a different place, then go with God . . .away from this denomination . . ."

Anyway . . .what I shared was this . . . by those guys building a new cart . .that is a picture of men building their own means, their own doctrine that they can then conveniently control the direction of God's presence.  There was a specific order in which the ark was to be carried . . .the long poles again . . for me, they are extension of authority, ordained by God . ..and they are to rest upon the shoulders of the priests as they carry the ark . . .this represents a renewed mind . . .he is the "head" we are the body . .it's also why I emphasize the importance of having my mind submit to my spirit.  I'm not to walk according to my own head, my own thinking and reasoning and choose the path that I want God's presence to go . . .but instead, by carrying the ark on poles resting on my shoulders at the head of the congregation . . .this is showing that God is leading me . . .not me leading God.

The cart was pulled by oxen . . .oxen are a sign of plowing ..of laboring . .  the man-made cart hit a rut, a hole in the ground . . .flesh always has a way of confusing my doctrine . .or trying to.  And it was at that point that man reached up to "steady" the ark . . .man is always trying to keep God in his cart.  It even makes you wonder . . .how'd they get it in the cart in the first place?  If they knew you had to lift it by using poles, then they would also of known that was how it was to be carried.

And the timing of this . . .jeeze, how awkward . . .in the middle of a full blown celebration. . . makes ya wonder about the worship in many churches . . .we get emotional and call it God . . .yet when God truly manifests . . .somebody dies.  The order is all wrong . .and it's not about control or conformity . .it's just simply about knowing God.  David had to drop everything . . .go home and do some research on how they moved the thing without dying . .when he learned the order . . .the curse was reversed into blessing.

May we get our crowbars and tear down our ox carts that we made according to our own reasoning and take up the extended authority of God and be led by the spirit rather than our own limited understanding and imagery.

Blessings.

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #62 on: March 09, 2009, 05:01:27 AM »
"The life flows in the blood, filling the chambers of the heart and mind."

It took some time to catch-up on this thread, but it is a blessing!

peacemaker

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2009, 07:53:05 AM »
 :cloud9: I was going to re-write some things, but then I remembered that I covered some of what I wanted to add in another post. So pardon me for taking a short cut........


 :cloud9: Church: this is what I see, and it's "radical", I admit. But from the Word I see a "church" that is comprised of born from above, Spirit filled individuals. This is the only kind of Christian I could find in the Bible the first time I read it, and my opinion has not changed. References, such as the "church at Rome", means those that fit the above criteria, are THE church, not a building with a name on it, and not one particular gathering of people in one spot, but rather many gatherings in many locations, IF they fit the criteria above. They do not require any specific building; most had the first, "home fellowships". Occasionally, certain ones got to teach in the synagogues, but that was the closest it got to an "organized" domain.

 :cloud9: What would be the outcome of that? What would "church" be like if that was all we had? Would people still want to go if they found it required something of them, namely to press in (in a variety of ways) so that HE could have free reign to manifest through them making them to be a joint of SUPPLY, equal in "status" to all the others present, instead of sitting passively on a pew waiting to be fed? What if there was no preplanned "service", and all just came together to see what THE LORD wanted to do in our midst?

 Paul spoke of that very thing, but it was overlooked as the enemy of our souls found a point of contention to use to divide in the next part of this chapter, ie. the debate over what, when and where of tongues. Look at what he said was going on IN CHURCH.

    1 Corinthians 14:26-33
        26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

When's the last time you were in a church building, and every one of you was given a song by the Spirit, revelation of doctrine, a word spoken through tongue and interpretation, a revelation or an interpretation of part of the Word given by that same Spirit? And if you got it, were you allowed to "disrupt" the preplanned "service" to give it?

 :cloud9:  Christ was apportioned (earnest of our inheritance, earnest means portion, the priest's portion was God Himself) in the form of 5 divisions of His nature as it functions in the realm of the works of God. This was done by the Holy Ghost falling on them on the day of Pentecost, and was for ALL that went past those 5 pillars to get into the realm of the priesthood. When all were told they had to come to experience the feast of Pentecost, it meant ALL, it didn't mean some, and it didn't mean the supposed few "called" to be leaders over the others.

Feast to our mindset is totally different to what God means. The Hebrew word there for feast means, "a divine appointment".

    Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

 :cloud9: A kingdom has a King, and that Kingdom functions exactly according to what the King has appointed or decreed, according to his nature. We were appointed His Kingdom and the King/Head wishes to function through us according to His nature.

 :cloud9: His nature was/is to be revealed through the works of God in His form and function. Not through someone, in the sense of them just "holding the office", but HE HIMSELF manifesting though the individual AS the apostle, prophet, evangelist, teacher and pastor. This manifestation of His form and function has laid dormant within the body for the most part and are withered from lack of use, like the withered HAND of the man who sat outside the temple.

:cloud9: The gifts of the Spirit that are what I call the "action" gifts, ie. something HAPPENS, are activated by the growth into one of these 5 fold gifts of form and function, generally also remain dormant except in a rarefied few.

 :cloud9: The 5 fold was intended to be the formation of HIS mature body, which is SPIRIT, in OUR earth, and as the hand of God. The action gifts are HIS BODY'S "senses",
 ie. how HIS body IN US, was to interact or react through us and in the world around us.

Such as; He speaks, He heals, He builds up, He teaches, He encourages; all of these are represented in word of wisdom, word of knowledge, prophesying (speaking gifts), gifts of healings, miracles, ect.

 :cloud9: The church's primary reason for assembly is to worship God in Spirit and in Truth. The Spirit and the Word agree, and that's the Truth (pun intended). Put another way, when the Word (true 5 fold) and the Spirit (His "senses") are manifested equally, they produce the Truth and as He IS the Truth,  they produce Him, fully matured in form and function, in our midst.

 :cloud9: Just as with a natural hand it is impossible to dig a hole in the earth to bury a man and set up a tombstone (memorial stone) with only one finger, so too was it never intended that one finger (pastor) or even 2 fingers (evangelist) try to bury the "old man" and RAISE UP a memorial stone (Christ our Rock/righteousness) signifying the place where he died.

Those 2 fingers can't "smite" that Rock to get the living waters to come out (resurrect) either, because they can't grasp the rod of AUTHORITY (upright heart) as the hand of God without all the "members" of the hand operating in form and function as well. So we ended up with a body that was lame, blind and dumb, unable to see the pattern shown in the mount means HE couldn't fully walk, see, or talk through us. This is why we have not experienced the things the apostles did.

But He knew the end from the beginning and He knew it would take yet a new thing, to finish the WHOLE counsel of God. Blessings....


« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 07:55:27 AM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Doc

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2009, 02:29:00 AM »
Hey Nathan (and others) I don't know if any of you have read/ heard him, but there's some good (IMO) tabernacle living stuff at

www.sigler.org  both audio and written.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2009, 02:37:38 AM »
 :cloud9: Yes, I know him, but I didn't know he had any stuff on the Tabernacle...... :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2009, 04:06:54 AM »
In calling out Abraham, a man for Himself, God was not finished.  He brought forth from him nations, choosing one for Himself.  They went into bondage in Egypt (Mizraim: double crowns) from whence God brought them out, showing His mighty hand with signs and wonders.  His purpose was not only to bring them out, but to bring them into a rich land for their inheritance.  He went farther, to establish in the midst of the Land of Promise a city called the navel of the whole earth.  Yet, in the heart of that city on a mountain He had them build a temple.  And on into the innermost chamber of that temple, the holy of holies, His ark of the covenant was placed.  AT THE CENTER, RULING OVER ALL, IS THE WORD:  WHO IS THE IMAGE AND GLORY OF GOD, RESTING ON THE MERCY THRONE.

To establish that throne of MERCY in the innermost of you is what is His purpose in calling you to Himself.  Mercy in Hebrew chesed is the earnest passion to meet the need, the drive to fulfill.  It is covenantal love in action.  In Greek it is charis grace, the result of having been filled full.  The manifest presence of God, the Glory...rests on the Mercy!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 01:23:55 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2009, 04:23:39 AM »
 :cloud9: Loved it!  :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Molly

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2009, 08:11:14 AM »
The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice.

--Merchant of Venice, Act 4, Scene 1

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2009, 09:26:20 AM »
 :cloud9:  reFormer, your post reminded me of something the Lord told my friend once. He told her that He wanted her heart to be like a beanbag! She said, "Beanbag, Lord, what do you mean by that?"

He said that it was because a beanbag was soft and pliable and able to be molded into the shape of the One who sat and rested upon it. When He is finished with us, our heart becomes His throne, and He rests from His labors in us.  Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

DaughterofDavid

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #70 on: March 13, 2009, 12:21:21 AM »
(I wrote this a while back, though I don't know if I posted it elsewhere on tentmaker.)
-------------------------------------

I grew up in a church that called itself "Full Gospel."  They taught what could be called two salvation experiences:  1.) "born-again," or, vivification of spirit and 2.) "Baptism in the Holy Spirit," which over time refers to the guiding, teaching and forming of our consciousness, emotions and will.  This is a progressive change of the soul by the work of the Holy Spirit, or, rousing of the soul.  What I didn't then know was that there's a third dimension, a third salvation:  3.) "resurrection," or, raising of the body.  Paul spoke of it as a race he was striving to win.

My idea of resurrection had been an acceptance of Jesus' historical resurrection and a belief in some future change for myself and even all humanity.  This was not something I viewed as able to be affected by anything I could do.  It took time and growth in knowledge of Scripture to understand we're racing against death.  Will we mature enough, that is reach enough "finishedness" to not be taken out by the last enemy?  If God is no respecter of persons, and we realize (even if they don't possess it like Jesus does) Enoch, Melchizedek and Elijah entered into something of this full victory, then there is before each one of us an open door that no man can shut.

This 3rd dimension is definitely what the following Pauline references (ASV) from Phillipians 3 are about:  "If by any means I may attain unto the resurrection from the dead..." (v.3) "I press on toward the goal unto the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus..." (v.14) "For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: who shall fashion anew the body of our humiliation, that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working whereby he is able even to subject all things unto himself." (v.19-21)  Resurrection followed by ascension is actually the at the finish of the race we are in.  We've already entered something of the end because he who is the beginning and the end has entered us.  He is the resurrection and the life.  He has joined us here from his place in ascension.  His increasing presence in us will bring about this change and manifest to the world with us until we rule with him for the thousands (though contested, "Millennium" is actually plural in Greek) of years.

The three Feasts (God entering into us, Christ in us) are 1.) Passover = new birth; 2.) Pentecost = manifestations of teaching rain for soul change; 3.) Tabernacles = transfiguration of habitation.

The three successive dimensions of The Tabernacle/Temple (our entrance into God, we in Christ) are: 1.) the outer court = through a veil, not measured, where the crowd is, in "natural" light, concerned with judgment and cleansing; 2.) the holy place = another lifting of a veil (paradigm change,) only by appointment of God to the priesthood, the light is from scripture (the lampstand has 66 parts) and the anointing in the Church (those united with the word hid in their hearts which is what God anoints, the oil that must be refreshed is burning, there's activity and most of what's there is made by man, concerned with prayer (fresh bread of faces--we are one loaf) and altar of incense; 3.) the holy of holies = another veil removed (Isaiah 25:6-9) veil removed is death destroyed,)1000 sq cubits (Millennium,) only once on day of atonement during feast of tabernacles the High priest (Jesus first born head of entire body--feet last born) enter in, the only light is from the Shekinah presence resting on the throne of mercy ruling over all.  Changed by union with the Word Who is the Image and Glory of God, His throne must be establish in you for the glory to rest upon.
Look up the "third day" in Scripture. ("...on the third day I shall be glorified..." Consider the many threefold things; eg., "you have not many 'fathers'" (deriv., "starter"), Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac (lit., "laughter," "laugh causer" -- "in Isaac your seed shall be called") and Jacob (who has the name/nature change) unfold the Spirits progressive work in bringing forth mature nurturers, the Fatherhood realm.

The women are churches, or, the soul conceiving, or, covenants (Ga 4:21-31) if husband law dies she is free to marry grace (Rm 7:2-6) but even knowing that no learning more and trying harder which is works of law, even knowing there is no disciplined path of anything that can bring the voice of God into us (paraphrase of Ga 2:16) Orpah (30 fold) only goes as far as the borders of her natural birth land, her natural impulses; Naomi (60 fold, Pentecost not enough) says bitterly, " the hand of the Lord has gone out against me...I am too old;" Ruth for love goes all the way and lies at His feet in the middle of the night and says,"Cover me." "...not to be uncovered, but clothed upon; for this mortal must put on the immortal!"

Then I really like the mind to rule (what is kingdom of God mentality):  (30 fold, born again:) King Saul, anointed flesh; (60 fold, gifts of Spirit:) King David (translated means "beloved,") another house (not the first man) defeats the enemies of the Lord, flesh subdued; (100 fold, tabernacle, body transfigured, resurrection:) King Solomon (peace, welfare) brings in the flesh (embodiment) glorified, his realm is marked by wisdom.
Without going anywhere else I'm striving and expecting to come into complete victory, even over death, walking with Jesus so closely all the time that I cross over, I change rather than sleep.  This is what Jesus has me looking to him for.  Ah, intimacy with God...
your brother, James Rohde

Truly have been blessed by all that you have shared....

Brother, I am believing with you for complete victory, even over death....and it is all His work...and He will finish what He has started within His firstfruits people....the change is happening even now within the physical body....

So be it.

Be blessed,
DoD

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #71 on: November 08, 2009, 06:51:17 AM »
Quote
David was not permitted to build the temple because he was a bloody man, but it was not from warfare, after all God told him when to go to war.

The blood on his hands was because he desired a woman/soul who was not his to have, to join himself to her, and he was willing to kill her husband to do it. Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them.

Wow, this was just quickened to me, most especially where you say, "he was willing to kill HER HUSBAND to do it (have her)."   Instantly I could see the times when I have done this very same thing (not literally), but figuratively because of my flesh being weak.   I hope those reading understand what I mean when I say this.   Think of it - even we being people after God's heart can still fall to the desires of our flesh which is weak.  - Anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #72 on: November 08, 2009, 07:06:33 AM »
 :cloud9: I know what you mean  :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #73 on: November 24, 2009, 09:05:16 AM »
www.georgewarnock.com

Look for "From the Tent to the Temple"

Really edifying.

A few thoughts of my own about the tabernacle and growing in grace.

"And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them." Exodus 25:8

"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." Revelation 21:3

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.(tabernacle effect)
(Mat 18:20)




In the holy of holies was the ark of the covenant. The mercy seat corresponds to the heart of man, where the blood is applied and the Spirit comes to dwell. "having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil consciousness...."
 

The acacia box was gilded, man adorned by the divine nature, corresponding to the soul, that is being transformed through the renewing of the mind, converted by the kindness, discipline and revelation of God. Within it was the testimony of God.....thus it was called the ark of testimony

Above it were the cherubim, wings outstretched, corresponding to the spirit of man. All this corresponding to the pattern of the heavens, wheels within wheels, the tabernacle of God is with men."Holy Holy Hoy Lord god Almighty who was and is and is to come."

We have not received a spirit of fear, but of power(cherubim), love(mercy seat) and a sound mind(acacia box).

In the outer court, praise God, their is a lot of blood being shed, many sacrifices for sins- much forgiveness for babes and little children. Yet where there is much forgiven there is much love, and eventually gratitude draws us towards the holy place, and true discipleship.

 At the entrance is the bronze laver, sitting atop of the bronze bulls. The entry to the holy place requires acceptance of progressive sanctification(the bronze sea) through submission of the will(oxen). To go in unwashed(having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water) was against the law and unwise. The prerequisite to life in the holy place is the acceptance of sanctification through the renewing of the mind/fellowship in the Spirit(lampstand) and Koinonea /fellowship among the saints (the table of presence/showbread). The lampstand was hammered by a skilled craftsman out of one lump of pure gold "tried in the fire 7 times". (I counsel you, by of me gold tried in the fire and eyesalve for your blindness)

(2Pe 1:2-8)
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We all stumble in many ways, but on the way toward the veil into the holy of holies there is a golden altar. This is a witness to a deeper sanctification. A deeper submission, brokeness and prayer. It corresponds to the Garden of Gethsemane, where Jesus, our high priest, before He entered once and for all(\o/), sanctified himself before the father in agony of soul, offering the last step of obedience, "Nevertheless not my will but thine be done". In the holy place maybe we can sleep a little but at the golden altar He chides us, "What can you not wait one hour?".
The blood of a firstborn male Lamb is sprinkled upon that altar, corresponding with the sacrifice of the son, the Isaac of God(our desire)-the sonship offering that qualifies us for life in the mature son- "Until we all attain."

This golden altar of incense is at the door of the heart, the way into the life of the spirit man, the overcomer. I believe Jesus could only enter through total humility and dependence on the Father....How much more do we need this grace.
  
It also corresponds to the 5th seal, the saints beneath the altar in Revelation 6:9, those "beheaded" for their faith,
and to the 7th seal in rev 8, the prayer of these saints are what brings judgment on the earth (thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven), as the angels add incense to the incense of the prayers of the saints upon the golden altar of incense and cast it down to he earth with the fire of the altar. "When your obedience is complete I will bring about their obedience also".

So all our life in Christ is a drawing further in, so that as the high priest entered we might join in the intercession and the warfare, seated with Christ in the heavenly realms, casting down imaginations, tearing down strongholds, living in the power, the love and the soundness of mind that comes from the Spirit.

(Php 3:8-16)
More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.


 
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 05:04:07 AM by eaglesway »
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Offline Cardinal

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Re: Experiencing the Tabernacle
« Reply #74 on: November 24, 2009, 04:28:04 PM »
 :cloud9: Beautiful!  :goodpost: :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor