Author Topic: Do UR believers go to church?  (Read 5185 times)

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Offline shawn

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2012, 03:01:42 AM »
Shawn, the answer is: Trust.
Tell a church member you were drunk last week and at teh next mass everyone wisphers behind your back...

As we were leaving my very first AA meeting, an elderly gentlemen approached me and said "I'm so glad that I am an alcoholic...."  (having just listened to several members discussing their own pain at having inflicted so much pain on their spouses, children, friends... I wanted to reply "Are you crazy???!!!)  but the man quickly added "I know my sin, and have gone before God and received forgiveness.  My family and friends know only my sin, they don't know their sin and so they don't go before God ... so they cannot experience the joy of being a forgiven sinner."

reminds me of Luke 7:47 ...her sins, which are many, are forgiven;  she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, loveth little.

I can honestly say that I am very glad that I am a recovering drug addict and alcoholic.  There are many reasons including the one you listed above.  I like the fact that it makes me sensitive to the cries of other addicts.  My story comforts those who are suffering.  I found a new understanding of God's love for mankind as a direct result of my recovery.  God turned what satan meant for my destruction into my life's work...my calling.  Also, so many people go around with these feelings of being defective, insufficient etc...and they never figure out what is wrong...spiritually bankrupt and don't know where to go, what to do...have zero insight into themselves.  Recovery not only changed that for me, but for my entire family.  My wife is in recovery from co-dependence and also works with me helping addicts and families of addicts.  God used something dark, and destructive that I had done to myself an turned it into something beautiful.  And for that I give Him the glory...the thanks...and my gratitude.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2012, 04:40:09 AM »
:) 

re: "I have a much easier time "fellowshipping" with those whom you would consider "not saved" (gentiles, if you will) then most of those in the church whom you would consider "saved". It's awfully hard to fellowship with people who think you're as good as Satan. (For believing God will save all.)"

To be clear, in case there's some misconceptions despite how clearly I tried to say it in my last post, I personally can't say anyone's not saved (though I have shared several scriptures about what that means and how it happens scripturally).  But, that's ultimately between every person and God.  If one has been given the faith to believe on Jesus as Savior, the scriptures say "our spirits bear witness with His Spirit that we are the sons of God".  IMO, that's internal, and I can't see what's inside someone.  The point I'm trying to make (rather than "who I consider saved" or not is) what do the scriptures say about it, and how can we understand that to the best of our ability (given His help understanding it); and then living it out in the way He'd have us to.  So just clarifying, that's really what I'm addressing in my previous post.  However we each understand it, I'd hope we can still agree that's important, and then seek to do His will on it.  I'm still "getting there".  Even though He gives us some guidelines, still, who we each feel most comfortable with or who He leads us to associate with, I believe is also ultimately between each person and God.   :thumbsup:

« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 04:50:36 AM by jabcat »

Offline jabcat

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2012, 06:12:17 AM »
Yeah it is certainly easier to have fellowship with those who are walking in the Spirit, for sure, and who share similar beliefs. But in my experience I have a much easier time "fellowshipping" with those whom you would consider "not saved" (gentiles, if you will) then most of those in the church whom you would consider "saved". It's awfully hard to fellowship with people who think you're as good as Satan. (For believing God will save all.)

Give me the tax collectors and sinners anyday lol!

For me (and sometimes because of me) some saved people (including UR) are not the easiest to be around or interact with, depending on personalities and what's being sought as common denominator/point of discussion.  Some are great to be around.  I have friends/family who are UR, some that are ET, some that do not profess to be spiritually reborn at all.  I can have some level of fellowship with all them, but my most intimate would be with those with whom I share the most in common.

That said, isn't Jesus and Him crucified and risen again the critical point of unity all believers (ideally) should have in common, rather than completely dividing over doctrine, "as much as is possible and depends on you" living in peace as Paul said?

Some non-believers are great to be around, some not so much, again, depending on personalities and what's being sought as interaction/point of discussion.  Some are outright vicious enemies of Christ.  Show love if possible, share Christ if possible?  Sure, but IMO, there is likely no basis for intimate fellowship.  Likely living in 2 different worlds ("in, not of").

Observation without digging into it;  I could be very wrong, I see through a glass darkly and understand very little of how God actually works all things according to the counsel of His will.  But I'm guessing here, that perhaps Jesus' interactions went something like this?  He loved and associated with the harlots and tax collectors, but His relationship with them was not intimate, but was as an Agent of change, as a Helper - not identifying or "joining/yoking together" with their unbelief and as-yet-to-be-reborn sinful nature, i.e., "light with darkness", but rather to bring them to the Light?  He chastised and rebuked the Pharisaical religious, those who only pretended to believe and be pious.  His deepest (earthly) intimacy was with His disciples, His followers, those He called friends.  Even though they were far from perfect or even understanding much at all, there was a spiritual "connection";  this relationship was based on true fellowship of light with light.   :2c:
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 09:56:01 AM by jabcat »

goodreport

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2012, 06:48:45 AM »
re:  easier fellowshipping with... not saved  (Lomarah

re:  Shawn and his wife's ministry to addicts and families of addicts

re:  ...who He leads us to associate with... (Jabcat)

A few minutes ago, after reading the last several posts (including my own) on this thread...I needed to go for a walk, but first looked out my picture window (3rd floor apt) where much earlier this morning I watched the paint crew set up some scaffolding--I smiled almost out loud as I saw one, very tiny sparrow sitting firmly on the edge of a pipe looking directly into the SSW gusts at 27 mph!!!!

I was reminded once again that some of us are called to "watch, as a sparrow alone upon a housetop." (often a place of prayer)  Psalm 102:7  Sometimes I really find this difficult... knowing the pain and struggle of alcoholism, I so want to share (and I've done that as an Evening Supervisor at a Christian Halfway House) but now for a season the Lord is calling me to watch and pray.

Offline shawn

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2012, 06:56:42 AM »
re:  easier fellowshipping with... not saved  (Lomarah

re:  Shawn and his wife's ministry to addicts and families of addicts

re:  ...who He leads us to associate with... (Jabcat)

A few minutes ago, after reading the last several posts (including my own) on this thread...I needed to go for a walk, but first looked out my picture window (3rd floor apt) where much earlier this morning I watched the paint crew set up some scaffolding--I smiled almost out loud as I saw one, very tiny sparrow sitting firmly on the edge of a pipe looking directly into the SSW gusts at 27 mph!!!!

I was reminded once again that some of us are called to "watch, as a sparrow alone upon a housetop." (often a place of prayer)  Psalm 102:7  Sometimes I really find this difficult... knowing the pain and struggle of alcoholism, I so want to share (and I've done that as an Evening Supervisor at a Christian Halfway House) but now for a season the Lord is calling me to watch and pray.

Can you describe what is difficult?  Is it difficult to talk about your story because of embarassment?  Feel free to PM me anytime, as I have known many who have struggled with this same thing, including myself.

goodreport

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2012, 07:09:21 AM »
re:  easier fellowshipping with... not saved  (Lomarah

re:  Shawn and his wife's ministry to addicts and families of addicts

re:  ...who He leads us to associate with... (Jabcat)

A few minutes ago, after reading the last several posts (including my own) on this thread...I needed to go for a walk, but first looked out my picture window (3rd floor apt) where much earlier this morning I watched the paint crew set up some scaffolding--I smiled almost out loud as I saw one, very tiny sparrow sitting firmly on the edge of a pipe looking directly into the SSW gusts at 27 mph!!!!

I was reminded once again that some of us are called to "watch, as a sparrow alone upon a housetop." (often a place of prayer)  Psalm 102:7  Sometimes I really find this difficult... knowing the pain and struggle of alcoholism, I so want to share (and I've done that as an Evening Supervisor at a Christian Halfway House) but now for a season the Lord is calling me to watch and pray.

Can you describe what is difficult?  Is it difficult to talk about your story because of embarassment?  Feel free to PM me anytime, as I have known many who have struggled with this same thing, including myself.

Shawn, you misunderstood me... what I find difficult is to not share and just(?) pray... I've given my testimony in front of very large crowds (prayer groups of international renown even). I greatly rejoice and am eager to share what the Lord has done for and through me...  but thank you for your gracious offer.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2012, 09:08:48 AM »
what I find difficult is to not share and just(?) pray...  I greatly rejoice and am eager to share what the Lord has done for and through me...  but thank you for your gracious offer.

 :2thumbs:

Offline Molly

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2012, 09:21:33 AM »
Quote from: Goodreport
--I smiled almost out loud as I saw one, very tiny sparrow sitting firmly on the edge of a pipe looking directly into the SSW gusts at 27 mph!!!!

It's amazing how he keeps communicating to you through that one sparrow.

Same thing happens to me.  He picks one thing that is very meaningful to me to artfully insert into my day at the right time.

It does make you laugh out loud.

goodreport

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2012, 11:46:51 PM »
Quote from: Goodreport
--I smiled almost out loud as I saw one, very tiny sparrow sitting firmly on the edge of a pipe looking directly into the SSW gusts at 27 mph!!!!

It's amazing how he keeps communicating to you through that one sparrow.

Same thing happens to me.  He picks one thing that is very meaningful to me to artfully insert into my day at the right time.

It does make you laugh out loud.

It seems that yesterday's sparrow on scaffolding is just that...yesterday's communication--a sort of graduation gift... next grade?  Jeremiah sitting alone, weeping over his people's idolatry... and "...judgment must begin at the house of God... (1Peter 4:17-19)... and so much more...   (house of God:  church (called out ones)  ...

like Jeremiah sit alone, watch, weep,  pray (for God will have compassion according to the multitude of His mercies)   NOT to sit in condemnation of any person, any group (I'm too aware of my own "flaws" ....)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 03:14:33 AM by goodreport »

Offline Molly

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2012, 12:03:12 AM »
He is so gentle with us.  Is this judgment? 


There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

--Rom 8:1


Romans 5:16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.


He just wants us to understand it all.

We have been set free...set free...set free...from the law of sin and death and translated into the kingdom of His dear Son.

goodreport

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2012, 12:31:00 AM »
He is so gentle with us.  Is this judgment? 


There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

--Rom 8:1


Romans 5:16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.


He just wants us to understand it all.

We have been set free...set free...set free...from the law of sin and death and translated into the kingdom of His dear Son.



among meanings given in Strong's Analysis...
"to pronounce an opinion concerning right or wrong"

judgment can lead to condemnation or justification

judgment can also lead to correction, to chastisement...

What do you think Peter meant by "judgment must begin at the house of God"?

Offline Molly

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2012, 12:37:15 AM »
He is so gentle with us.  Is this judgment? 


There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

--Rom 8:1


Romans 5:16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.


He just wants us to understand it all.

We have been set free...set free...set free...from the law of sin and death and translated into the kingdom of His dear Son.



among meanings given in Strong's Analysis...
"to pronounce an opinion concerning right or wrong"

judgment can lead to condemnation or justification

judgment can also lead to correction, to chastisement...

What do you think Peter meant by "judgment must begin at the house of God"?


4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
 
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
 
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
 
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
 
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
 
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
 
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

--1 Thess 5

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2012, 10:36:15 AM »

I can honestly say that I am very glad that I am a recovering drug addict and alcoholic.  There are many reasons including the one you listed above.  I like the fact that it makes me sensitive to the cries of other addicts.  My story comforts those who are suffering.  I found a new understanding of God's love for mankind as a direct result of my recovery.  God turned what satan meant for my destruction into my life's work...my calling.  Also, so many people go around with these feelings of being defective, insufficient etc...and they never figure out what is wrong...spiritually bankrupt and don't know where to go, what to do...have zero insight into themselves.  Recovery not only changed that for me, but for my entire family.  My wife is in recovery from co-dependence and also works with me helping addicts and families of addicts.  God used something dark, and destructive that I had done to myself an turned it into something beautiful.  And for that I give Him the glory...the thanks...and my gratitude.

Shawn, your phrase "...feelings of being defective, insufficient..." took me back some years to a time when I was beginning to face some negative issues in my own life.  I prayed about it, and while still praying, I saw in my mind's eye a vast field strewn with potsherds.  Some were very pretty with colored glazes and/or incised designs, and some were very plain.  I knew that each shard represented a human being, and that my shard was among them.  The lesson for me in that vision was that some are more beautiful, but WE ARE ALL BROKEN.  It was not the answer I wanted, but I believed it, and still do.
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline shawn

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2012, 12:16:29 PM »
re:  easier fellowshipping with... not saved  (Lomarah

re:  Shawn and his wife's ministry to addicts and families of addicts

re:  ...who He leads us to associate with... (Jabcat)

A few minutes ago, after reading the last several posts (including my own) on this thread...I needed to go for a walk, but first looked out my picture window (3rd floor apt) where much earlier this morning I watched the paint crew set up some scaffolding--I smiled almost out loud as I saw one, very tiny sparrow sitting firmly on the edge of a pipe looking directly into the SSW gusts at 27 mph!!!!

I was reminded once again that some of us are called to "watch, as a sparrow alone upon a housetop." (often a place of prayer)  Psalm 102:7  Sometimes I really find this difficult... knowing the pain and struggle of alcoholism, I so want to share (and I've done that as an Evening Supervisor at a Christian Halfway House) but now for a season the Lord is calling me to watch and pray.

Can you describe what is difficult?  Is it difficult to talk about your story because of embarassment?  Feel free to PM me anytime, as I have known many who have struggled with this same thing, including myself.

Shawn, you misunderstood me... what I find difficult is to not share and just(?) pray... I've given my testimony in front of very large crowds (prayer groups of international renown even). I greatly rejoice and am eager to share what the Lord has done for and through me...  but thank you for your gracious offer.

Ah ok...thanks for the clarification.

LordsDaughter

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2012, 03:34:29 AM »
This may sound like a dumb question, but since I've come to understand the real gospel i no longer go to "church" (i dont want to hear my God belittled), but it gets kind of lonely out here. If not for this blog and my books/articles, i would be a spiritual recluse. Is this the new "normal"?
Well, in my belief I live on earth so I "go to" church every day I wake up. ;-)

Or, from time to time I attend the Unitarian Universalist services that occur here at different times in the week, because the local synagogue allows the UU to use their temple for the meetings.
It's a wonderful experience to intermingle with an eclectic community of people from Wiccans unto Christians to Agnostics and even an atheist or two.

God Bless.

Online WhiteWings

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2012, 10:24:34 AM »
This may sound like a dumb question, but since I've come to understand the real gospel i no longer go to "church" (i dont want to hear my God belittled), but it gets kind of lonely out here. If not for this blog and my books/articles, i would be a spiritual recluse. Is this the new "normal"
If you would put the 12 in a church for an hour; then after hour you ask what sort  of building they visited the answer likely would be a Roman temple.

Church=religion=manmade

I think a small homebased Bible study group is much more to 'church' than Constantines military religion.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Deena

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2012, 08:44:49 PM »
I like that idea. Are thereany UR believers in Souther California that would be willing to try it?

Offline shawn

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2012, 10:39:17 PM »
I like that idea. Are thereany UR believers in Souther California that would be willing to try it?

I like the idea as well...even considered taking out an ad in local papers.  Too bad you don't live in southern Ga.  :)

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2012, 06:09:13 AM »
When believed UR for quite awhile before I took a bold stand in it. I took a bold stand in it when I was fortified enough in the scriptures and in the understanding of the overall "whys" of God to feel confident that I could give a defense, or even go on offense if led, without getting angry or intimidated or forgetting love along the way to making a point.

But long before that,  I was out of "church" for various reasons, but of course I still longed for fellowship. One day I prayed, Lord, you are head over all things to the body of Christ here where I live. I believe tere is fellowship here for me, or your word is not true, and I know it is. Not long thereafter, I found myself going on Monday nights to the home of a man I had known as an acquaintance for years, just three or four of us usually, in prayer, worship, fellowship. I never spoke to them of my belief in UR at that time, altho I did much later(this was maybe 10,11 years ago).

Wherever two or more of you gather in my name, there I am in the midst of you.   To me, this is the mustard seed of the church, the body, the tabernacle of living stones.

My fellowship has changed over the years, I have moved a few times. I hav been waiting on the Lord for two or three here in NYC since I hav been here (nearly 2 years) I go to church once in awhile with and open mind and heart, and Thank God, I hav some dear friends I see once in awhile and talk to often who share this blessed hope with me- and that is all good church to me.

I have believed in the book of Acts style, Body of Christ, living stones, spirit filled 5 fold ministry, one heart one soul ecclesia of God for over 30 years and I still hold that vision on my heart of hearts......but if I ever get to see it it will be because a few believers fall in love with Jesus together and break through in love and prayer and serving one another until the Lord speaks GREAT GRACE upon them as the word of the Lord multiplies among them until He begins to add daily to their number those who are appointed for deliverance.

 :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c:
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Online WhiteWings

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2012, 11:14:10 AM »
I like that idea. Are thereany UR believers in Souther California that would be willing to try it?
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/
===> Misc ====> Churches


Mayber something of use there.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2012, 04:20:01 PM »

Or, from time to time I attend the Unitarian Universalist services that occur here at different times in the week, because the local synagogue allows the UU to use their temple for the meetings.
It's a wonderful experience to intermingle with an eclectic community of people from Wiccans unto Christians to Agnostics and even an atheist or two.

God Bless.

LD, are you really one in the spirit with wiccans, agnostics, and atheists?  Tell us more about where you are at spiritually...
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Online WhiteWings

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2012, 08:14:17 PM »
LD is an atheist that posts here for fun.
Each and every of her posts is  typical rant found on atheist blogs.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline shawn

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2012, 04:08:45 PM »
Ya know, I'm ok with debating atheists here...specially in a non public specific forum.  Not all are angry...and I have had some productive ones.  Recently, a seeking atheist I know...actually opened his mind to "some sort of diety" just didn't like the angry hellfire ones Christians believe in...lol.  I truly think more atheists are created by visceral reactions to hellfire teaching than for any other reason.

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2012, 04:34:53 PM »
Shawn it takes (a) God to be an Atheist :-)

Many are against religion. Against the mess church made in the past.
Others are against the unscientific teaching found in translations/sites.
Note I used the word translation and not (original) Bible.

Sure atheists don't believe inGod.
But many because what church did/does.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Online WhiteWings

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2012, 04:35:39 PM »
Many are just stubborn.
I'm sure of that :-)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...