Author Topic: Do UR believers go to church?  (Read 5571 times)

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Offline Deena

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Do UR believers go to church?
« on: July 30, 2012, 03:44:28 AM »
This may sound like a dumb question, but since I've come to understand the real gospel i no longer go to "church" (i dont want to hear my God belittled), but it gets kind of lonely out here. If not for this blog and my books/articles, i would be a spiritual recluse. Is this the new "normal"?

goodreport

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2012, 04:05:01 AM »
This may sound like a dumb question, but since I've come to understand the real gospel i no longer go to "church" (i dont want to hear my God belittled), but it gets kind of lonely out here. If not for this blog and my books/articles, i would be a spiritual recluse. Is this the new "normal"?

"spiritual recluse" ??? 

Jeremiah 15:17
I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced:  I sat alone because of thy hand; for thou thou hast filled me with indignation.

Now read Jeremiah 15:16
Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy of rejoicing of mine heart, for I am called by thy name, O Lord God of hosts.


also
Psalm 102:7
I watch, and am as a sparrow alone upon the housetop.

housetops are often places of prayer  so I see this verse as watch and pray... Jesus uses this phrase on two different occasions.  Must be important....

also (oh yes, I have many also's)
imo, now is the time of two or three gathered in His Name.... I believe that "name" includes the sum total of who Jesus is...

so do UR's go to church... well there about a zillion definitions of the word "church"...  if one uses the definition of "the called out ones"....  it seems to me, when two or three are gathered in His name... there is "church"...

so many words, did I say anything???

Offline Deena

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2012, 06:04:59 AM »
Yes, I see your point. It is my perception of church that needs to change.

Offline lomarah

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2012, 06:14:54 AM »
Hi Deena. :)
When I first came out of the church that's what I felt like too. I prayed for a true friend (since all of my friends at that time were ET believers in the traditional church system and it was impossible to be as close to them as before, considering.) Anyhow, it took about 3 years of praying but God finally sent me Rebecca a few months ago and for the first time ever I actually experienced what it's like to be a part of the true Church! Words of knowledge, prophecy, giving, these are things that are alive and are supposed to be a part of the body! And it's wonderful. :) Ask the Lord, but I'm sure He's got plans for you anyway Deena! Plans to connect you with true members of the body. He didn't call you out of Babylon for nothing. :)

Blessings and love in Christ. <3
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline Deena

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2012, 06:22:22 AM »
I love that! "Not called out of Babylon for nothing". Yes!!!

Offline jugghead

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2012, 06:54:11 AM »
As you can see, that feeling is not unique, I also do not go to church anymore and sometimes feel alone,

but as goodreport stated, "watch and wait".

It was not only coming to this site to find like minded people, but I also wait for God to bring others across my path. They may not believe all that I have to say, but if they are willing to listen, I can keep on talking about the love of God all day long, and that is what I get excited about and they hear it in my voice when I talk about it.

I have found that when I ask God to bring others across my path so I can speak of His love, He never hesitates to answer and I find a lot of times, when they come across my path, they ask a question that has to do with what He has currently taught me. And that is what I find awesome about our Lord and Savior.

Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2012, 07:49:11 AM »
I have problems with the apostasy of most of Institutional Christianity, what they do as well as what they say.  They're messed up more than enough for the people to seek escape without even once considering they make God a Master Torturer.

We must remember, if God gives us more light it is to find access to our brothers and sisters and shine on them.  To get puffed up, saying, "Now that I have light superior to you I can't fellowship with you any more," is not God's will for them or us.  Our mission, our witness, after the Holy Ghost is come come upon us, is in Jerusalem (the core of a believing group,) Judea and Samaria (those in the religious world,) and the uttermost parts of the earth.

The phrase, "Go to church," is not used in connection with anything in the Bible.  It just isn't there anywhere.  When there was a tabernacle or the temple we could say something like that, speaking of a place to go to God's presence, though He always denied He was confined in any way (unless it's by our sins.)  Now that the fire fell on each of us at Pentecost everywhere we go we bring the church with us because we are the church.

We are in a period of transition.  Returning the ministry to the people of God is on the agenda for those who will hear what the spirit says to the churches.  Every member participating is God's way for us to be perfected.  The true God is in many people, not just an individual you, me, or some lonely prophet somewhere.  We don't know Him very well if He's confined to the God of our own heart.

But where is the belief in the Holy Spirit that Jesus says the Father sends in Jesus' name.  He is present as head of His body.  He would lead forth through His body but we are not allowed to be lead by Him.  We have given our rights and blessings to come into the full image of Christ away to other mediators, usually honored by other men with the title "Pastor," rather than to meet without human headship.  There may be times we function in a lecture structure meeting, and there are teachers in the body.  But the normal format of the church should be a round-table meeting.

Read it in 5 little verses in Ephesians 411-16.  The function of apostles, prophets and the like is to build up the saints so they'll corporately become the ministry one to another.  That in turn brings in the perfect man that everyone of us is to grow into.  That is what will reign in all the earth.  It is a Royal Priesthood and it is "...by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part."  This is all happening "...in love" (vs. 15)

I know there is the call to come out of Babylon:  "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of  her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Revelation 184)  I also know Jesus, "...as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day..." (Lukw 416)  There is no directly stated warrant in the Hebrew Scriptures for the synagogue system.  Considering ignorance of God's word to be the cause of the captivity, it was instituted upon the Jews return from Babylon as a measure to prevent such judgement from ever happening again.  Yet it was Jesus habit to attend the synagogue services.

We may find ourselves in varying conditions, isolated for a season, then with just one or two others to be in agreement with, or, as Jesus, "...sat the people down in groups of fifty or a hundred" when He fed the hungry, multiplying the bread and fishes, which I consider to be the size of normal gatherings.  There is definitely room for throngs and vast crowds too, depending on the situation.

Welcome to freedom.  But it is only right to remind you it is an honor to suffer for the name of Jesus.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 06:08:18 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline lomarah

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2012, 08:28:34 AM »
Yes reFORMer, I made the mistake of condemning my brothers and sisters when I first came out. I had been hurt badly by them and retaliated in my mind, holding contempt for them in my heart. It was only fairly recently that God brought it to my attention and really cleaned that out of me and brought me to repentance. They are only doing what they think is right, and only a few short years ago I would've done the same. They truly believe that they are serving God when they persecute the light. Many are held in extreme bondage to fear. It is not a fun place to be, having that strong delusion and being such a slave to fear. I have a lot of friends in the church system, family too. My biggest desire now is to see them all experience what I've since been able to experience - true fellowship! It's an amazing thing and I won't be satisfied until everyone has experienced being a part of His body!
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2012, 08:37:58 AM »
Sister lo, you still there?

I've got a question for you.  And yes, it is a trick question.   :LH:

Offline jabcat

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2012, 09:07:28 AM »
It's an amazing thing and I won't be satisfied until everyone has experienced being a part of His body!

Here it is :)

When/how long ago did the Holy Spirit convict you that you needed a Savior, and gave you the faith to believe on Jesus as your Savior? 

Offline lomarah

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2012, 10:06:18 AM »
Ah! I hate trick questions! Hahaha.

It was about 11 years ago. And I think I see where you are going with this haha. But I can honestly tell you that I didn't experience the fullness of His body until He brought Becs and I together. I was not living by the Spirit, and neither were any of the others in the system I was in. I'm not saying it's not possible for a group of church members to be living by the Spirit but I sure haven't seen anything remotely resembling the early church in that system. I was pretty much a dead member hanging out with other dead members. I mean at times we had great talks and shared our hearts with each other and those times were great. But the life of Christ was completely missing from there. I mean the fullness of the Spirit just wasn't there. When I would read in Acts about the early church I would think, wow, it would be awesome to be a part of that! And that is what we are truly called to be a part of!
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2012, 10:35:33 AM »
hahaha, very good!  You're smart!!!     :bgdance:

First of all, let me say I appreciate what you're saying about coming out of institutionalization, He brought me out too.  Also, appreciation for your heart of wanting all to participate.    :gthumbsup:

The other consideration is though, I personally believe when you were spiritually reborn 11 years ago you became a part of the Body of Christ. IMO, that also s/w speaks to some other issues that have been discussed the past few days.  IMO, that is a work of the Holy Spirit, giving you faith to believe - and then Him imputing His righteousness to you and by His grace, seating you in heavenly places with Christ.  That's a finished work of the cross, made real in you.  So I believe all those folks (who were truly saved) are all part of yours and my family (one faith, one Lord, one baptism).  I Cor. 12 talks about the body, through and in Christ, how there are many members, some more and some less desirable than others - yet all necessary and all the same body.

Don't know what group (denomination) you were fellowshipping with, but again, from years experience, I know some are more alive and some much more dry than others.  So I absolutely don't want to dis being led into deeper walking in the Spirit and deeper fellowship.  I believe those things are to be desired and yielded to, according to His will.  I also really like (and I'm thinking of it in different terms than before) good report's statement of "2 or 3 gathered in His name".  That's all good stuff. 

Anyway, is it possible there's a difference between being in the body, and being in deeper fellowship?  Sometimes I think of it as, "I may have folks that are my family members, but that doesn't mean we eat a lot of meals together at each others' house".   :Chinscratch:    :gimmefive:

Offline lomarah

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2012, 10:57:18 AM »
Yes I totally see what you're saying jab and maybe I should word it this way: I long for each member to be able to experience true fellowship and to have eyes to see and ears to hear. I believe (like reFORMer) that He is in each one (I know, you don't but the reason I'm saying it is:) therefore I consider every man and woman a part of my family. I am still very blind to many things so I honestly have no idea who is a part of His body, who or what the bride is, if they are the same thing, etc, etc. (I'm not asking for peoples opinions here, there are many, the Lord will show me when He sees fit.) I just know that the Babylonian church system has little to no life and since I have been able to experience that life I have a deep desire for others to as well. :)
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2012, 11:33:04 AM »
since I have been able to experience that life I have a deep desire for others to as well. :)

Amen.  :)

Offline shawn

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2012, 01:09:05 PM »
I think this is a very personal choice.  I have spent quite a bit of time angry with the church.  All the points above are noted and I agree.  With that said, part of my Spiritual healing process is to find peace with believers who gather together.  While I don't see eye to eye on some issues, I have found much we can agree on.  Also, going to a grace, love, sound teaching oriented church has helped.  So, yes I go to church, but understand why some do not.

Offline jugghead

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2012, 11:15:32 PM »
I in no way will condemn or hold anything against those of the church, as lomarah said, I consider every man, woman and child family. For me it is more like mourning for them. Do I consider them dead? No, I consider them still inbed, we have been made alive in Christ, some just do not understand that they have been awakened to the truth, they just haven't got out of bed yet.

I repeat the words of our Lord and Savior upon the cross, "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do"
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Offline Deena

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2012, 12:34:50 AM »
For me, there certainly is no pride rooted in the thought that i had anyrhing to do with God's revelation of UR to me. It happened like the dawning of a new day where the light gradually increases. One day i read Smith's book "unselfishness of God"which was the first time i had heard the message. I didn't understand at first, but i read it again and i "saw" it. Like her, the discovery was a great relief, and i wanted to find out more. I know it was all God's doing because i was the most miserable Christian who thought death was the only escape. There is no  animosity from me towards those in "church". I more pity them, want to show them the way out of that lifeof bondage. I was in such emotional pain that i imagine many others are also. Now when i think of going to church i have a PTSD reaction of anxiety and fear. I never want to go back to that emotional state. I want to lead them to the liberty that i am discovering.

Offline jugghead

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2012, 05:31:22 AM »
For me, there certainly is no pride rooted in the thought that i had anyrhing to do with God's revelation of UR to me. It happened like the dawning of a new day where the light gradually increases. One day i read Smith's book "unselfishness of God"which was the first time i had heard the message. I didn't understand at first, but i read it again and i "saw" it. Like her, the discovery was a great relief, and i wanted to find out more. I know it was all God's doing because i was the most miserable Christian who thought death was the only escape. There is no  animosity from me towards those in "church". I more pity them, want to show them the way out of that lifeof bondage. I was in such emotional pain that i imagine many others are also. Now when i think of going to church i have a PTSD reaction of anxiety and fear. I never want to go back to that emotional state. I want to lead them to the liberty that i am discovering.

Amen!
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Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2012, 04:06:23 AM »
"Church" just has little attraction for me since my Jesus-Freak days.  I take note of the infiltration of Christianity/Churchianity by the forces of the Illuminati:

I read an account on the www of a Mormon missionary in Australia who happened to call on a fellow who was some kind of Satanist.  He urged the young man to join them, claiming that "...we have infiltrated all the churches, and yours will be next."  Chilling, and that was in the late 1940's.

No wonder the current version of the glorious Gospel sounds more like Pabulum...
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2012, 01:30:12 PM »
Yes I totally see what you're saying jab and maybe I should word it this way: I long for each member to be able to experience true fellowship and to have eyes to see and ears to hear. I believe (like reFORMer) that He is in each one (I know, you don't but the reason I'm saying it is:) therefore I consider every man and woman a part of my family. I am still very blind to many things so I honestly have no idea who is a part of His body, who or what the bride is, if they are the same thing, etc, etc. (I'm not asking for peoples opinions here, there are many, the Lord will show me when He sees fit.) I just know that the Babylonian church system has little to no life and since I have been able to experience that life I have a deep desire for others to as well. :)
Well, this is an opinion though...while scripture definitely says He's in all, "...one God and Father of all, Who is over all and through all and in all" (Ep 46 Concordant Literal) in some He's crucified and in us He is risen (or, in the process of.)
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline jabcat

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2012, 05:03:08 PM »
That's a good distinction reF, I like that.

-----------------
Quote from: lomarah on July 29, 2012, 06:57:18 PM
Yes I totally see what you're saying jab and maybe I should word it this way: He is in each one therefore I consider every man and woman a part of my family.



I guess that's the main distinction for me, i.e., whether He's "technically" somehow in all, i.e. by His breath that sparks everyone, His DNA/a spirit of man He gave us, etc. (even though I'd suggest considering that the context of 'all' in Eph. 4:6 specifically is talking about those in the body of Christ:2c: - either way, I don't believe literally all are saved yet.  So I personally don't see everyone as already being a part of the body of Christ ("we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God" 2 Cor. 5:20)      So not to sound mean, but honestly, I don't see everyone as my brother or sister "in the family".  Some are indeed enemies of Christ and I have no [INTIMATE/LIKE-MINDED] fellowship with them -- "Be you not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion has light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14. 

In my understanding, we are to love everyone and help others ("Therefore, whenever we have the opportunity, we should do good to everyone--especially to those in the family of faith."  Gal. 6:10);  share the love of Christ and live at peace with everyone as is possible ("If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all."  Rm. 12:8);  still, I believe one must be spiritually reborn from above through Christ's work on the cross and belief in Him, to come into the family/body.  Blessings.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 05:08:43 PM by jabcat »

Offline lomarah

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2012, 10:14:39 PM »
Yeah it is certainly easier to have fellowship with those who are walking in the Spirit, for sure, and who share similar beliefs. But in my experience I have a much easier time "fellowshipping" with those whom you would consider "not saved" (gentiles, if you will) then most of those in the church whom you would consider "saved". It's awfully hard to fellowship with people who think you're as good as Satan. (For believing God will save all.)

Give me the tax collectors and sinners anyday lol!
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Offline shawn

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2012, 01:36:07 AM »
Yeah it is certainly easier to have fellowship with those who are walking in the Spirit, for sure, and who share similar beliefs. But in my experience I have a much easier time "fellowshipping" with those whom you would consider "not saved" (gentiles, if you will) then most of those in the church whom you would consider "saved". It's awfully hard to fellowship with people who think you're as good as Satan. (For believing God will save all.)

Give me the tax collectors and sinners anyday lol!

My favorite people to sit and talk with are drug addicts and alcoholics.  I'm more comfortable in a meeting with recovering addicts than I am just about anywhere else.  For me it's about authenticity.  I like interacting with people that just lay it out there...no pretense...walls are down...just being real.  That is when real relationship with other human beings begins.  What I struggle with is dealing with masks, walls and fascades...how can you fellowship with someone who can't trust you enough to let you see them?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 02:16:30 AM by shawn »

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2012, 01:50:25 AM »
Shawn, the answer is: Trust.
Tell a church member you were drunk last week and at teh next mass everyone wisphers behind your back...
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

goodreport

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Re: Do UR believers go to church?
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2012, 02:17:45 AM »
Shawn, the answer is: Trust.
Tell a church member you were drunk last week and at teh next mass everyone wisphers behind your back...

As we were leaving my very first AA meeting, an elderly gentlemen approached me and said "I'm so glad that I am an alcoholic...."  (having just listened to several members discussing their own pain at having inflicted so much pain on their spouses, children, friends... I wanted to reply "Are you crazy???!!!)  but the man quickly added "I know my sin, and have gone before God and received forgiveness.  My family and friends know only my sin, they don't know their sin and so they don't go before God ... so they cannot experience the joy of being a forgiven sinner."

reminds me of Luke 7:47 ...her sins, which are many, are forgiven;  she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, loveth little.