Devil is the egoic (adamic) mind

[claypot]

It seems to be that the vast majority of people in the church still regard the devil as a being, rather than a facet of our nature, as this discussion calls the "adamic man" or "ego."

We think that subversive temptations are the workings of "the devil", and therefore have their origin from an external source. 

Christ said the opposite:

"It is FROM WITHIN, from men's hearts, that evil intentions emerge[/u]: fornication, theft, murder, adultery, avarice, malice, deceit, indecency, envy, slander, pride, folly. All these evil things come from within and make a man unclean." Mk. 7.21-23

He didn't say that these evil intentions are spurred on by the devil, in the sense of external provenance, and then implanted into our hearts. All of the intentions have their origin from within the hearts of man. These evil (opposing) intentions have their root within the selfishness of man.  The pure intentions have their root within the selflessness of man. In this light, the "battle" between good and evil can be seen as the inward struggle between selflessness and selfishness, respectively.

Hey cap,

That is good and I think of what Jesus said about a man's enemies being of his own household.mt10.36

Ever notice how Jesus and Paul say the same thing about there being 2 inner essences in man. Jesus says that a man's enemies are within and He says the Kingdom of God is within. Paul says out of the same lump, God makes a vessel of honor and a vessel of dishonor.

The physical wars portrayed in Scripture IMO mirror the inner struggles of man.

cp

[reFORMer]

The phrase "go to heaven" never occurs in the Bible in relation to anything.  (Except for a possible implication in some English translations between Jesus' words on the cross to the malefactor beside him (Lk 23⁴³) and Paul's described experience (2 Co 12,) passages that actually refer to "Paradise" in the original,) heaven is not ever used in Scripture for a location in death, though that is it's popular meaning in contemporary English. While something at least like that place is referred to by Jesus (Lk 23⁴³) as "Paradise," it isn't anywhere expressly stated that death is a prerequisite for entrance (Rv 2⁷;) indeed, it seems there are testimony's like Paul's (2 Co 12) from some among us concerning this place where all saints go.  The word "heaven" is slightly more than half the time plural in Scripture.  The commentaries like to explain it with a Latin term to sound like they know what they're talking about. They say the plural "heavens" is majestis pluralis, meaning plural only to communicate the exceeding glory of heaven. In reality there are three (3) heavens, (2 Co 12²) corresponding to the dimensions of spirit (where peculiarly God's presence is), soul (psychic realm,) and body (the heaven of earth's atmosphere to the distant galaxies.) Jesus has passed through all the heavens (Hb 4¹⁴) and rests up over all in the right of the Great All-Togetherness upon High (Hb 1³.) While we are joined to Him there in ascension, we are undergoing a process with His Spirit sharing the same body in union with Him down into death and through resurrection to come into the demonstration of ascension.

---James Rohde

[amanda]

I dont see why we cant have heaven on earth right here right now, would it be because there is bad people here doing bad stuff and we would have these people excluded from heaven.
Just thinking.
amanda

[jabcat]

Hi Amanda, I don't want to hijack this thread, stay here as long as you like.  However, I think the last several posts from today, 4/22 on the "Are There Deceivers Today" thread actually pretty directly addresses this question.  Rather than for me to post the same things on this thread, I'd suggest you may want to take a quick look there as well.  God's blessing, James.

[reFORMer]

I'm much in sympathy with robertroberg's analysis of the teaching of Tolle.  A Course of Miracles that was published by The Inner Peace Movement has much the same Hindu philosophy.  The agnostic Jewish Psychiatrist that wrote it said she was channeling Jesus.  When she was a little girl she was read Mary Baker Eddy's writings for an hour a day by her mother.  She was also raised in a Catholic school.  These sources are very evident in what she produced. 

Many times this side and that to the various facets of the truth become staked out territory by opposing camps, each distorting what they lack of a more complete and balanced view.  Commendable as it is to awake to the present moment, there is a place for the past and, unlike the world at large, those with the Holy Spirit are sometimes transported by Him into the future.  "...the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." (Rv 19¹⁰)  Those partaking of the prophetic in the Divine nature are more prone to find themselves evaluating in their consciousness what is yet future.  The effect not only of prophecy, but of such character of Christ upon His body is significantly unique among other things to be reckoned with among the sons of men.  This is not a matter of technique, as if God was a power for us to use.  There is a living Jesus in our midst.

[meerkat]

Hi,

I don't think that the Devil is just the egoic (adamic) mind, the adamic mind is a fruit of, or the tare/seed that was sown by the devil at the fall (refer to Parable of the sower  Matt 13:24-30  - The devil is a spiritual force not a physical man with a forked tail and pitchfork. 

Jesus said that the pharisees were the children of their father the devil - he didn't say that they were the devil.

We are told that the mind of the flesh is emnity against God and that we are to overcome evil with good. I think that there is an individual battle against our own devil (adamic mind) and also a collective battle good (saints) against evil (satan)  Revelation  16:13  And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14    For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

The whole of the scriptures need to be taken into account I think, it is so easy to come up with an idea then collect some scriptures that seem to support that idea then make a religion around it - That is where calvinism/armin... /eternal torment/denominations, etc have come from.

In my journeying away from religion/christianity and trying to find truth I explored spiritualism/reincarnation and if you take some scriptures out of context they seem to support those theories.

     

[jabcat]

Hi,

The whole of the scriptures need to be taken into account I think, it is so easy to come up with an idea then collect some scriptures that seem to support that idea then make a religion around it - That is where calvinism/armin... /eternal torment/denominations, etc have come from.

  "The whole counsel of God"...reconciling all of scripture with itself...that's where we find UR, for instance...  God's blessing, James.

[Casstranquility]

Hey, Nancy, believing that God is IN everything is a panentheist belief. A pantheist, such as myself, believes that God IS everything.

I think Now includes the past, present, and future. It depends on whether you are viewing life from the perception of linear time, or timelessness. All things are happening Now.

Heaven can be now if one stops judging things as right and wrong, good and bad. I have done it before, but who can stay in that place? The things in this world shout that they are to be judged. Death, pain, sickness, war, cruelty-these things are loud! They hurt. But, you know, I can't imagine living in a world where there was none of this. The story is interesting. Why else do we watch movies, play video games, read books? What would happen in a world without death, war, pain, sickness? Well, for one, we would stay the same, we would not change, we would not grow-we would never know healing or forgiveness or compassion again.

[Nancy]

Hi there Casstranquility,

I think for most christians, pantheism is a dirty word!!!!!
I don't see why!
I must be a pantheist then, as i do see God in everything. Even the bible states, that even in Sheol, you (God) are there and that there is nowhere that a person could go to escape God!!  St. Paul states that in Him, we live, move and are in God.  That must mean a human to a stone.  In the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus says, look under a stone and I Am there. He obviously didn't mean Himself, but the I Am that is God.
I see God as the space between everything and everything aswell! Sort of the air that we breath.
Godbless
Nancy

[Paul Hazelwood]

Since I can't physically see the spiritual and we have so little understanding of the full scope of the human mind I am not going to just declare that this line of reasoning is wrong.

I think one problem with this is where this often ends up.  If the negative (Satan / Devil)aspect of our thoughts are only in our mind, what is there to keep the positive (God) aspect from being the same?

With that said, I believe that the battle we do have in our mind is much more spiritual than it is physical.

One reason I have doubts along these lines is the account of Job.   

In Job, Satan is depicted as walking to and fro "IN" the earth and walking up and down "In" it.   I believe this represents the spiritual nature of the world that Satan has power in.   

Some have suggested that Satan and Devil are separate but it still means adversary from the  greek.   

Jb 1:7 Yahweh said to Satan, From where are you coming? Then Satan answered Yahweh and said, From going to and fro in the earth and from walking about in it.

I believe that Satan is a real spirit created by God as the adversary and has power over us in the scope of Gods plan. 

Isa 54:16 Behold! I, I created the artificer who blows into the fire of coal, and brings forth an implement for his occupation. And I, I created the ruiner to harm.


Then we see one purpose for creating such a thing.

Lk 22:31 Now the Lord said,  "Simon, Simon, lo! Satan claims you men, to sift you as grain.


Jobs physical life was affected by Satan, this was not only a battle in Jobs mind.  Satan also was subject to what God allowed him to do, but nevertheless we can read what God allowed.

We also just do not really like the following verse because it conflicts so hard with our emotions.  People say all kinds of things to say that this verse cannot possibly mean what it says.  In my opinion, saying Satan is only in our mind is one of those things.


Isa 45:7 Former of light and Creator of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil. I, Yahweh Elohim, made all of these things.

[AbbasChild]

Since I can't physically see the spiritual and we have so little understanding of the full scope of the human mind I am not going to just declare that this line of reasoning is wrong.

I think one problem with this is where this often ends up.  If the negative (Satan / Devil)aspect of our thoughts are only in our mind, what is there to keep the positive (God) aspect from being the same?

With that said, I believe that the battle we do have in our mind is much more spiritual than it is physical.

One reason I have doubts along these lines is the account of Job.   

In Job, Satan is depicted as walking to and fro "IN" the earth and walking up and down "In" it.   I believe this represents the spiritual nature of the world that Satan has power in.   

Some have suggested that Satan and Devil are separate but it still means adversary from the  greek.   

Jb 1:7 Yahweh said to Satan, From where are you coming? Then Satan answered Yahweh and said, From going to and fro in the earth and from walking about in it.

I believe that Satan is a real spirit created by God as the adversary and has power over us in the scope of Gods plan. 

Isa 54:16 Behold! I, I created the artificer who blows into the fire of coal, and brings forth an implement for his occupation. And I, I created the ruiner to harm.


Then we see one purpose for creating such a thing.

Lk 22:31 Now the Lord said,  "Simon, Simon, lo! Satan claims you men, to sift you as grain.


Jobs physical life was affected by Satan, this was not only a battle in Jobs mind.  Satan also was subject to what God allowed him to do, but nevertheless we can read what God allowed.

We also just do not really like the following verse because it conflicts so hard with our emotions.  People say all kinds of things to say that this verse cannot possibly mean what it says.  In my opinion, saying Satan is only in our mind is one of those things.


Isa 45:7 Former of light and Creator of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil. I, Yahweh Elohim, made all of these things.

Yes that's what I can see. The only thing would be that I don't believe that the adversary was created as being evil.

The scriptures you mentioned for example can also be differently interpreted/translated.
But this are only minor points, and I don't have the time to go into it right now.

But I agree on the devil being a spirit being that works through our carnal thinking. (The serpent was made to eat dust.)

After all that's where the battlefield is. Pulling down the strongholds that lift themselves up above the knowledge of God.

[sparrow]

Hey, Nancy, believing that God is IN everything is a panentheist belief. A pantheist, such as myself, believes that God IS everything.

I think Now includes the past, present, and future. It depends on whether you are viewing life from the perception of linear time, or timelessness. All things are happening Now.

Heaven can be now if one stops judging things as right and wrong, good and bad. I have done it before, but who can stay in that place? The things in this world shout that they are to be judged. Death, pain, sickness, war, cruelty-these things are loud! They hurt. But, you know, I can't imagine living in a world where there was none of this. The story is interesting. Why else do we watch movies, play video games, read books? What would happen in a world without death, war, pain, sickness? Well, for one, we would stay the same, we would not change, we would not grow-we would never know healing or forgiveness or compassion again.

I can definitely imagine a world without war, death, pain and sickness.

To think that we will NEED war, death pain and sickness FOREVER in order to FOREVER know healing, forgiveness and compassion boggles my mind.

No, I think that this world with the war, death, pain and sickness is only for a season. The lessons learned here will LAST FOREVER. But the death, war, pain and sickness itself will NOT last forever.

peace.

[fire walker]

Hi,

  Jesus said that the pharisees were the children of their father the devil - he didn't say that they were the devil.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
meerkat,
   That is right Jesus did not say they were the devil, and a good point to bring into discussion on this thread.

Peace,
Fire Walker 



     

[claypot]

Are we children or products of our thoughts?

cp

[claypot]

Are we children or products of our thoughts?

cp

Let me rephrase this as its been a long time and no reply.

Are we children of God or Satan OR are we products of our own minds?

What does it mean to be a child of God or Satan?

cp

[Raggedy Anne]

Nancy,

I think there is much truth about the ego mind in your post.  I very much appreciated 'The Power of Now' by Eckharte Tolle.    I think Jesus was our pattern to follow - to show us what we must go through while in this mortal frame.   There is still a lot of fear in Christian circles of anything outside the bible.  But God's truths are not dependent on any book.

Peace -
Anne

[Raggedy Anne]

Nancy,
What do you mean by "heaven"?
Maybe that might help me understand what you mean...
because for me, (for example) as long as my dead loved ones are not here with me...
this ain't heaven.

I can imagine the day when we will be reunited...
but I can't literally see them, talk to them, etc.

I can live my life being at peace..
knowing that one day there WILL be peace.
But I can't say that peace is now, because I would be in denial about what is going on around me in this world.

Further... If Tolle were to spend a day in Iraq... would he say that heaven is now?
I'm just not following this...

How can this earthly plane be considered heaven? We can think heavenly thoughts and dwell in peace... and this physical world can seem like heaven at times, but you can't deny what is going on all around.. Is that what he is suggesting? To deny and just say "this isn't reality"...??
I don't understand.

I was kind of understanding "living in the now" thing as far as not dwelling on the past, and not worrying about the future... but this "heaven is now" thing is something entirely different.
Can you help me understand what you mean?

 ,
sparrow

P.S. you said:

because for the first time in my life, the teachings of Christ have come alive...

I'm glad to hear that...
That's really awesome, Nancy. 
 

Hi Sparrow,
I just wanted to interject a scripture that popped into my head as I was reading your post to Nancy:

"Thou wilt keep him in Perfect Peace, whose mind is stayed on Thee:
because he trusteth in Thee"
(Isaiah 26:3).

It seems to me that a great deal of the peace we have or don't have depends on what we allow into our minds.  I know from experience that that is true.  For some reason, we allow a lot of stuff to pass through our minds.  And I even feel guilty for trying not to think about certain things, for example, if I try to tune out the pain and suffering in the world, I feel that I'm hardening my heart.  So I get what you're saying about this world not being heavenly in its current state.  But I think ultimately, we are blessed in that we can flee (in our minds) to heaven when the burden is just too heavy to bear. 

Peace -
Anne