Devil is the egoic (adamic) mind

[Nancy]

Hi there all,

After reading The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle, I believe that the devil is the egoic or adamic mind.
Our ego arises when we live in the dualistic world of good and evil, of past and future, you and me. When you live in the Eternal Now, this doesn't exist. All are manifestations of the One God. The fruits of the Spirit can operate. 
I have tried it myself and the transformation is unbelieveable! I believe that this is the Christ mind or consciousness, the peace of God that passes all understanding. I also believe this is what is meant by 'Resist the devil and he will flee from you'.
Jesus was tempted in every way we are and temptation comes when we are turned away by our own lusts, but Jesus didn't not give way to the devil.
In the desert, Jesus was offered bread (an outside condition to fill Him) a way of trying to proof that He was of the One substance of God, to have the recognition of others (God doesn't have to prove Himself, He Is) and power and wealth which the ego tries to convince us that we need in order to feel alive but which robs our peace and only brings fear, that we will lose it. 

Had to share my thoughts and experiences with you all.
Godbless
Nancy

[sparrow]

Hi Nancy,
I've tossed the idea of the devil as EGO/adamic mind for a few years now and it just seems to fit. I've often heard people say "Satan is doing this to you!" or "Watch out for satan!!!"
I don't know... I really don't know. It's always seemed that satan was my own mind!
the EGO! fighting against my spirit. I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing or not, but thought it was interesting that you mentioned it.

Anyway, as for the rest of your post, I'm not familiar with Eckart Tolle really.. but does the following verses have anything to do with what you are talking about??

25-34 ACP/KJV Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall He not much more clothe you,? O ye of little faith, therefore take no thought, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or, 'What shall we drink?' or, 'Wherewithal shall we be clothed?'

(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.




Could you explain what the power of NOW is? Is it just living for this SECOND. not comparing things to the past or future, etc.? I always try, (Keyword: TRY!!!) to do this already. I've discovered that a lot of suffering comes from dwelling on things past or being fearful of things in the future... even if it's just an HOUR into the future. So dwelling on NOW is key to living in the way of the fruits of the spirit, the way of peace. Is this ANYTHING at all what you are talking about with this Eckhart fellow??

[Nancy]

Hi Sparrow,

Yes that's exactly what Eckhart Tolle is talking about! Live in the moment of Now! And as you said it's bloody hard to do as the egoic mind (devil) wants to tell us that we can't do it and puts in our mind all sorts of worries and judgements.
So you focus on whatever you are doing, so that every moment is a sacred moment, whether washing the dishes or taking the dog for a walk. You focus on what is happening now.  But it works. You don't place any judgements situations when you live like this, whether its' good or bad. And things start to happen, good things. People seem to open up to me now and they seem more helpful towards me (except my husband hasn't grasped it yet!!!!!). But that's ok too! It is nothing short of a miracle!

I think Christ was saying that when you live where He and God lives, then you won't worry about tomorrow and you will live like the lillies of the field.  Without this, you can't manage it. That's why Christ said become like little children because they seem to live in the Now.
Christs' teachings have really come alive to me.  Eckhart Tolle mentions the 10 wise and 10 foolish virgins.  The 10 wise virgins filled their oil lamps (consciousness) whilst the other 10 didn't.   I believe Christs' teachings were metaphysical, i.e more than we can imagine and using consciousness rather than thinking with the mind.

Its' funny but i was feeling like yourself, that thinking about even 1 hour time was making me edgy all the time and that everything i did was empty, then i read this book and everything fell into place.
Thanks for your input!
Godbless
Nancy

[AJ]

.
Hi Nanc,
You wrote:

"I believe that the devil is the egoic or adamic mind.
Our ego arises when we live in the dualistic world of good and evil, of past and future, you and me. When you live in the Eternal Now, this doesn't exist."


You have listed - Two fascinating points:

First:

I've wrestled with that concept of 'the devil' as our adamic mind, for the last 8 years - when I had heard of it the first time.
 
But, it was just this last November, when the 'Father' opened my eyes for me to understand this concept in my heart.
It was just a little bit at a time,….but WOW, when I finally was able to grasp it, it utterly changed the whole of Scriptures.
Everything since has looked different.

It was like scales had been removed from my eyes and it seemed like every time I read the Scriptures thereafter, it was with a different vision and changed prospective.


If I may….I would liken it to when I first received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in 1962 when I was 16.
The next day when I walked outside the house, I was amazed at the color of the trees and the grass.  It seemed like I was living in a different dimension.  It seemed like the grass was alive in a different way, and as it was moving by the wind, it was like it was singing glories unto God.
 As I looked at nature, I remember standing in awe,… and could related to the Psalms that speak of the 'trees of the field' clapping their hands.



Nanc,
Don't be too concerned about your husband not seeing this yet,… a person just cannot until the Father reveals it.
But, when He does, it'll be the most precious thing there is for that moment.



Secondly:

Living in the 'Eternal Now' as you call it.
I like that….. here's how I try to live it.

http://www.xenos.org/classes/principles/cpu2w8.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------
A Summary of the above study:


(A.)  Set you mind on the things of the Spirit.

(Rom. 8:5-7) For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

(1 Cor. 2:12-13) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things freely given to us by God…

(Col. 3:1-3) If then you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. (2) Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.

(Rom. 8:38,39) For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, (39) nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



(B.) Keep in step with the Spirit  - (Walking in the Spirit).

(Gal. 5:18) speaks of being "led by the Spirit" is part of "walking by the Spirit" (vs 16).

(Rom. 8:14) speaks of "being led by the Spirit" as part of walking according to the Spirit.

(Gal. 5:25)  "Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with [NASB - "walk by"] the Spirit."


To "keep in step with the Spirit" means to be alert and responsive to the Spirit's personal guidance in your life… in the NOW.

If you keep in step with the Spirit, God will guide you into attitudes and behaviors that serve other people--like restoring fallen Christians and bearing one another's burdens.  Leading to witness, help, encourage, comfort. Sometimes, this is a growing passion for a certain area of service; sometimes heightened sensitivity to opportunities to serve.

If one lacks the Spirit's guidance, prayerfully consider...
1. Ask for the Spirit's guidance.
2. Want to submit to the Spirit's guidance.


(C.) Sow to the Spirit

This is a basic principle of cause and effect in spiritual growth - you will reap what you sow.
The "fruit of the Spirit" as described Gal 5:22,23.
If you want to reap a good spiritual harvest in your life, you must sow consistently to the Spirit.  "Sowing to the Spirit" is participating regularly in the "means of growth."


How to "sow to the Spirit"

(Acts 2:42*) And they were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

(Gal. 6:10) So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all men, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

"Prayer" - This refers to individual, private communication with God, corporate prayer.
"Sowing to the Spirit" means building a lifestyle that centers around these means of growth. This is also the context in which you will get more personal guidance from the Spirit.

(1 Tim. 4:7,8) On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness; (8) for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.


(D.)  Being Filled with the Spirit

To be filled with the Holy Spirit means to be exemplify by the Holy Spirit.
Christians receive the baptism by the Spirit only once (1 Cor 12:13*), it is possible for us to receive repeated "in-fillings."

The "filling of the Spirit" is connected with our desire. An individual Christian can choose to be or not to be repeatedly filled. It is helpful to consider the filling of the Holy Spirit as the result of a Christian's openness to the Spirit's influence.

(Eph. 5:18) And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,…

The term "filled with the Spirit" (Eph. 5:18) is synonymous with the terms "walking by/according to the Spirit" (see Rom. 8:4-ll; Gal. 5:l6,l8,25).

All of these terms emphasize our volition in availing ourselves to the Holy Spirit.

"Grieving the Holy Spirit" (Eph. 4:30) and "quenching the Spirit" (1 Thes. 5:19)
apparently refer to two different ways in which Christians resist the filling of the Holy Spirit in their lives. In a sense, then, they refer to the opposite of being filled with the Spirit.


Although "grieving the Spirit" is not clearly defined, the context (Eph. 4:25-32) makes it clear that it involves willfully disregarding the Holy Spirit's moral guidance.

(Eph. 4:29-31) Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.


"Quenching the Spirit" is also not clearly defined, but the context (1 Thess. 5:20-22) indicates that it involves disregarding the Holy Spirit's efforts to direct and edify the church through various gifted members.

(1 Thess. 5:19-21) Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances. But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good and abstain from every form of evil.

.

[Nancy]

Hi there Aj,
Thanks for your comments.

For me if the devil is some being out there, it doesn't make sense, especially when Christ was tempted. But if it is the egoic mind, it makes complete sense, as you say! When people are 'possessed' they have a very strong egoic mind in them, not some 'demon'. I believe 'Legion' was maybe a paranoid szchophrenic or had a mutliple personality disorder. People say that a persons' demeanor changes when they are under a possession. Well just look at an alcohol when he has a rage! There is no hocus pocus, but this is not to say that the egoic mind isn't like a demon, but just isn't a being as such. There is only God!!

The trouble with the bible as I see it is that it sounds as if we CAN DO all these things that Paul asks of us and if we don't then we had better beware.  Martin Zender said in one of his tape ministries, that the bible isn't a recipe book but a check list. 

In other words, when you live with Christ consiousness (in the Now) you will live this way without using your own efforts. It will all be of God!
I have always been afraid when the Spirit of God is mentioned in the bible as i feel that i can somehow upset God.  But the Spirit is the Life that is in all of us.  I feel we grieve the Spirit when we do not live in the Now, when we allow the ego to live our lifes. But there is nothing to fear from God, He is our very life blood.
Maybe quenching the Spirit is when we don't accept the Now as it is but want life to be different in some way. We are then not embracing ALL of life, the seemingly good and bad.
Also an end note, i am finding it hard to  pray as i feel that living in the Now is a prayer in itself.  When i am not judging others i am wishing well for them. Also i do not know what to ask the Father for. How do i know what is good for a person? I suppose my prayer for others would be to be enlightened with God's Spirit of Life!
Godbless
nancy

[Loveroftruth]

Yeah, Well I think its both. If you where ever involved in deliverance you would see things that where beyond ones ego mind.

I think what I question more is if a demon is something "we make".

PEACE

[Cardinal]

  So Jesus's egoic mind took him up on a pinnacle of the temple? 

[CHB]

So Jesus's egoic mind took him up on a pinnacle of the temple? 

Cardinal, I was thinking the same thing.

Satan is a real being that God created to carry out a purpose, he is the evil, God is the good. Thus we have good and evil in the world and we learn from both.

CHB

[Nancy]

Hi all,
I believe that what happened was an out of body experience or an explanation of a metaphysical reality.
In God's eyes there is no good or evil, there just Is.
Something could happen to us that we would consider bad, but that would only be in the relative sphere. In the absolute, that 'bad' thing could be the means to our salvation and peace with God.
Also there aren't two Gods but one!!!! God created evil didn't He?!
The human ego has created so much misery on this planet that i think that the devil is redundant. It is the ego that comes to destroy and murder not some entity called the devil.  There are many sayings in the bible that we cannot understand with the 'mind'. Things i used to take as literally, now mean much more to me now i understand that things aren't going to happen in the future time but are happening in the Now.
Godbless
Nancy

[sparrow]

In God's eyes there is no good or evil, there just Is.

In my opinion, that is false.
If God doesn't know the difference between good and evil, then we are all doomed.

Some things "sound" nice, but have no basis in reality... there is no foundation. Just a misty vagueness.

This is how I see it:
There IS light.
There IS darkness.
The darkness is "created" by the absence of light (love).
You can't CREATE darkness...
Darkness happens as a result of the absence of light (love).


Turn off the lamp in an unfamiliar room.
Now go try to find the exit.
You stumble and fall over everything in your way.
Now turn on the light...
you walk straight for the exit without stumbling at all.

The ROOM may be the same... and it is ok to say "it JUST IS" about the room.
however the room becomes harder to navigate when cast in darkness.
God KNOWS this and sees this....
He sees the difference and so should we.
There IS darkness and there IS light.
Walking through this room (this life on earth) is a contrast between walking through darkness and walking through light (love).

We're all here together to learn..

 

[Nancy]

Hi there Sparrow,

I form the light and CREATE darkness,

[sparrow]

Hi there Sparrow,

I form the light and CREATE darkness,

Hi Nancy...

I think God did that.
not you. 



just kidding..



I just interpret it/see it differently I guess. I don't think that God CREATED evil...
I think the darkness/evil is what rushes into the void that is CREATED when love is taken out of the equation. God creates the void, but doesn't create the evil that fills the void.. Do you see what I mean?
 
It's what happens on a daily basis... when we push love up and out of our hearts, the void that is created, the space left behind then becomes filled with darkness.

God is the light...
God IS love.
When we are pushing love OUT of our hearts, we're actually pushing GOD out of our hearts.
God is the source.

Like I said, I just see us all as children, learning...

People may see someone as "Evil" but they don't know that person's history. They have no idea how they grew up or what events happened in their lives... people aren't "evil". People are just ignorant of God and what God is.. (love). We are all in varying degrees of darkness. All of us.
We're not BAD PEOPLE or EVIL PEOPLE.
We're just people...
One day we will ALL be filled to overflowing with the love of God and there will be no more darkness.

In the meantime, this is our schoolground.
And every life lived is lived for a reason, and we are all going to eventually benefit from EVERY single life. All lives have lessons intertwined... We're all equal and we're all loved beyond comprehension. Everything we are all searching for... we will all one day finally realize and find.
(God.)


peace,
sparrow

[laren]

Hi there Sparrow,

I form the light and CREATE darkness,

Hi Nancy...

I think God did that.
not you. 



just kidding..



I just interpret it/see it differently I guess. I don't think that God CREATED evil...
I think the darkness/evil is what rushes into the void that is CREATED when love is taken out of the equation. God creates the void, but doesn't create the evil that fills the void.. Do you see what I mean?
 
It's what happens on a daily basis... when we push love up and out of our hearts, the void that is created, the space left behind then becomes filled with darkness.

God is the light...
God IS love.
When we are pushing love OUT of our hearts, we're actually pushing GOD out of our hearts.
God is the source.

Like I said, I just see us all as children, learning...

People may see someone as "Evil" but they don't know that person's history. They have no idea how they grew up or what events happened in their lives... people aren't "evil". People are just ignorant of God and what God is.. (love). We are all in varying degrees of darkness. All of us.
We're not BAD PEOPLE or EVIL PEOPLE.
We're just people...
One day we will ALL be filled to overflowing with the love of God and there will be no more darkness.

In the meantime, this is our schoolground.
And every life lived is lived for a reason, and we are all going to eventually benefit from EVERY single life. All lives have lessons intertwined... We're all equal and we're all loved beyond comprehension. Everything we are all searching for... we will all one day finally realize and find.
(God.)


peace,
sparrow

Has anyone done a study of "form" light  and "create" darkness. 

form versus create??

makes me wonder why two different words??

[captamajora]

Our ego arises when we live in the dualistic world of good and evil, of past and future, you and me. When you live in the Eternal Now, this doesn't exist.

Hi Nancy. This is a great topic- thanks for bringing it up.

So, aionian, or "eternal" life is life in the NOW?

When the bible says that we will have life without end, it means that we will just be living in the "eternal present"?

Forgive me for thinking of the future for a moment, but will happen when the eternal present ends (ie, death)? Is there even such a thing as "heaven" or being "immortal", or are these just terms that apply to our present lives.

Maybe this is wrong of me, but I do yearn for a time and place when there is no pain, whether pain is an "illusion" or not.   

The bible speaks of a time when there will be no more pain and when people will learn peace. Is this just metaphysical pain?  Is this just when people start to learn to live in the now?   

I understand you saying that basically "heaven is here and now!"

People are killing eachother, people are dying of horrendous diseases, people are in constant physical pain, etc.  I have a mysterious stomach condition that causes me constant pain. If I live in the eternal now, my stomach pain still rages on! 

While I do agree with living in the now, I don't think that this is it!  I still believe there is something in the future (whether you think about the future or not).

I hope that in the future, pain won't exist at all, not even the "illusion" of pain.

[robertroberg]

Sparrow,
Ekhart Tolle quotes Jesus often and implies that he and Jesus are teaching the same message that all spiritual masters have taught.

Tolle certainly is in the stream of Hindu and Buddhist masters and even 1960s hippie masters. Tolle says consciousness is awakening (he admits to having used LSD) and that the secret to the awakening is to live in the Now.

It was the California Hippie Baba Ram Dass who wrote the book "BE HERE NOW" in the 60s that should get the credit for that idea.

Jesus did teach that anxiety comes from worrying about the future, but he told us to seek the future coming kingdom, and to remain faithful unto the end and to look out for false prophets who would come speaking well of him. Jesus (Yahshuah) was future-centered and told us to go into all the world and when the Gospel was preached to every tribe, he would return.

Tolle denies that the future exists and says every inner voice is an enemy. In fact he recommends what the Buddhists call mindlessness or non-thinking, and just being. "Only when you become fully present are you truly spiritual".

Jesus (Yahshuah) however taught us to listen to the Inner voice of the angel/spirit of Truth who would take up residence in the bodies of the all pure in heart who asked for him.

For Tolle there is no sin. There is nothing that we can do or that can be done to us that can affect our eternal conscious self. Once we realize that the eternal consciousness lies behind or below, our thought life (the enemy), we realize that we are eternal for consciousness (Tolle's God) is eternal and that's who we really are. We are collectively God. Classic Hinduism teaches that we are only drops that collectively make up the ocean called God.

Tolle is a pantheist for he sees God (Consciousness) in everything. Hello Krishna Consciousness . The Krishnas see Krishna in everything.  Everything is Krishna.

Tolle goes so far as to say that the goal of evolution is the expansion of consciousness (a great 60's phrase) and that we actually do not exist. We are only forms that consciousness uses to awaken itself.

For a man who teaches that the future does not exist Tolle is fearful that we are at an evolutionary crisis and if enough of us do not awake to our Consciousness, we will be wiped out as a species. He says that Consciousness will not be wiped out, but may have to find other forms to keep growing.

I must admit the first tapes I heard by Tolle a few years ago, were mesmerizing. He speaks like a dragon. But his idea of spirituality is to not believe in anything. The goal is to be still and silence any voice in your head by living in the mindless now. This is classic Krisnamurti another Hindu writer from the 70s whom I studied in great depth. He used to say for the real to exist we must only learn to observe the present without judging and become aware that we are the unseen observer who is forever at peace and one with everything.

In his Gospel Yahshuah taught that there is a king and a kingdom to be sought with every ounce of our being and we seek it by loving the king and his son and everyone including enemies. It is a narrow, difficult path to walk and by believing that Yahshuah alone is the only source of truth and zealously putting into practice his words, we will find eternal life. We are told to overcome sin in a fight to the death. We are to let our light shine, do good deeds, and teach his Gospel which leads to a spiritual rebirth.

To Tolle spiritual rebirth is when you silence any inner voices and realize you are one with eternal consciousness. Then he says the fate of humanity depends on teaching others to do the same, before it is too late.

Oprah who calls herself a free-thinking Christian who believes there are many paths to God besides Christianity ( a good major tenet of  Hindu thought) is promoting Tolle as her latest spiritual hero.

She and Tolle are co-teaching a ten week internet class to millions. She says she sees nothing incompatible with Tolle's Gospel and Yahshuah's which tells me Oprah does not understand Yahshuah's Gospel.

Yahshuah did not teach multiple paths to the father. He said I am the true vine and you are the branches. You must abide only in me. You have only one master-me. You cannot reach the Father by following Oprah and Tolle into mindless consciousness. Yahshuah said no one can come to the father except through me.

Tolle had his awakening while contemplating suicide. The voice in his head said, "I cannot live with myself any longer". He said, "Wait a minute who is it that cannot live with whom? Are there two of me?" Tolle was reborn when he had that schizophrenic awakening. He discovered there was a good Tolle and a bad Tolle living in his body. The bad Tolle was his mind, memories, fears, ambitions- The inner voice (he calls it the ego) that wanted to commit suicide.

The Good Tolle was eternal consciousness, his true self listening to his mind speaking. When he became aware of the bad voice -his mind, he went into a state of just consciousness and the bad Tolle - his mind dissolved. The bad Tolle fled away like mist. The mind (Bad Tolle) continues to try to revive itself, but just by living in the moment and becoming aware of the mind, you can turn it off, quiet it into silence and then you are the good you. The goal is to live longer and longer in the silence of just breathing, touching , seeing eating and viewing all things without passing judgment, that's how you reach the place that he calls the awakening.

He says if everyone awakes, there will be no more wars and the earth will become a utopian paradise.

[jabcat]

Quote robertroberg--"You cannot reach the Father by following Oprah and Tolle into mindless consciousness. Yahshuah said no one can come to the father except through me"
I agree with this.  IMO, I need to be very careful to whom I listen and from whom to attempt to glean "truth".  I'll just toss out here, as many/most know, 'ego' is a manufactured term from Freud...I'm not saying the term doesn't serve some purpose, but for me, it needs to be "easy does it"...I'd probably be better off reading scripture and praying over it for understanding..God's blessing.

[Loveroftruth]

Robert,
Thanks for sharing, you seem to know a lot about it.

[Nancy]

Hi there all,

I now don't believe that Christ meant that we must look forward to a future time.
All time is Now.
Just think about it.
When you long for something to make you whole or to find God, etc, when do you actually experience those things? 
Not in the future when you had the first longing but in the Now.

The reason i believe these things are truth is because for the first time in my life, the teachings of Christ have come alive and i understand, not all, but most of the teachings.
And i have experienced the fruits of the Spirit.
When Christ talks of I Am the vine, the life, the way, etc He is talking of the I Am that dwells within Him.
He also says that 'Of myself I can do nothing'! and 'What the Father tells me I do'!
I believe Christ was fully living in the Now without any ego presence.
Sin is the greek word for missing the mark. We sin when we don't live in the Now with full consciousness, when the devil can speak his lies to us, then we act out of those lies.
Christ said that the devil comes to steal and murder and is the father of lies!

I too believe that God is in everything. Does that make me a pantheist? These are all terms that try to put humans in boxes.

Lastly when i used to think of going to heaven, i felt a presence tell me, heaven isn't something to be longed for in the future but to be enjoyed now. This was before i read any of Tolles' books.
Heaven or hell is Now. I know it sounds odd but i believe that it is.
If we accept pain, etc we are accepting that it is and not wishing it was not. I think the greater pain is when we don't accept it and try to wish it away.
Forgive me if i sound flippant.
Godbless
Nancy

[AJ]

Nanc, you said:

All time is Now.

You are correct.
That's why the Bible says TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION.
Whatever the time of the NOW is....that is the time / day of salvation.

Whether a 1000 years ago or 10,000 years in the future, the point of time that is in the NOW is the day of salvation.


Peace, AJ

[sparrow]

Nancy,
What do you mean by "heaven"?
Maybe that might help me understand what you mean...
because for me, (for example) as long as my dead loved ones are not here with me...
this ain't heaven.

I can imagine the day when we will be reunited...
but I can't literally see them, talk to them, etc.

I can live my life being at peace..
knowing that one day there WILL be peace.
But I can't say that peace is now, because I would be in denial about what is going on around me in this world.

Further... If Tolle were to spend a day in Iraq... would he say that heaven is now?
I'm just not following this...

How can this earthly plane be considered heaven? We can think heavenly thoughts and dwell in peace... and this physical world can seem like heaven at times, but you can't deny what is going on all around.. Is that what he is suggesting? To deny and just say "this isn't reality"...??
I don't understand.

I was kind of understanding "living in the now" thing as far as not dwelling on the past, and not worrying about the future... but this "heaven is now" thing is something entirely different.
Can you help me understand what you mean?

 ,
sparrow

P.S. you said:

because for the first time in my life, the teachings of Christ have come alive...

I'm glad to hear that...
That's really awesome, Nancy. 
 

[captamajora]

Lastly when i used to think of going to heaven, i felt a presence tell me, heaven isn't something to be longed for in the future but to be enjoyed now. This was before i read any of Tolles' books.
Heaven or hell is Now.

So "heaven" is this life?  Thus, "heaven" ends when your life ends, or do you believe that "heaven" will continue?

I'm sorry but if this is heaven, heaven SUCKS!!!!

I think the infinite God of the universe can do a little better.

If we accept pain, etc we are accepting that it is and not wishing it was not.

And does the "illusion" of pain ever disappear altogether?

What happens of your husband and children are murdered, Nancy?  Are you still in "heaven"?

What if your child is being constantly tortured by horrible physical pain that nobody can help?  Are you still in "heaven" when you think about them?  Or do you think about them at all- is that allowed?  Would that not be living in the NOW?

 

[Nancy]

Hi there all,

Forgive me if i sound like i have all the answers to your questions and i fully understand what you all mean as i don't fully understand it all myself!!!

I don't really know what or where 'heaven' is either, maybe it's another dimension or frequency that we now cannot see but i repent if i sound like i do! And I agree, if this is heaven in the absolute, God help us all!! Anyway i want to see my pet cat again!!!!
But i believe that 'heaven' will continue once we let go of this body. Maybe this is mini heaven!!!!

I think the problem is that Tolle believes (and i'm not disputing him) that when this world is transformed by people becoming enlightened (i.e everyone believing that God dwells in everything and everything and everyone is connected to the whole)
That's what to him,  new heavens and new earths means in Revelation!
But that doesn't help if you grief or are in pain now.  I think Tolle and others like Deepak Chopray, say that acceptance allows a door for grace to enter!

He also believes that people CREATE their own realities. 

I used to completely disagree with this concept when i first read about it in 'Conversations with God' but now I'm not so sure. Why is it that different people seem to have different versions of what's good and bad in their lifes. 
I never forget years ago, a friend said to me that i always seemed to attract negative feedback from others. That comment has made me think on many occassions.
Was i creating hell for myself! Or did it just happen to me!
Also i think of Job in where he says, 'What i have feared has come upon me'!!!
We think that it was satan who was allowed to inflict Job, then why did he say this line.  He seemed like he was terrified of God, sacrificing for his children, etc.
I know someone, who seems to wallow in self misery. I'm not saying that her life isn't hard but when i suggested forgiving a neighbour who she feels has wronged her, her answer is 'Why should I'! 
I think Jesus told us to forgive for our own benefit!!!
So we can create our own misery I'm sure.
I'm sorry if i have confused you all.
Godbless
Nancy

[captamajora]

And I agree, if this is heaven in the absolute, God help us all!! Anyway i want to see my pet cat again!!!!

Well, I'm glad you share this sentiment, Nancy...

I hope I didn't come off as if I was coming down on you.  I appreciate you sharing your views and feel that they are very interesting.  I'm just trying to get a better understanding of exactly how you are applying these principles that you have learned.  I wonder how practical the application of these will be in certain tumultuous situations.

Anyway i want to see my pet cat again!!!!

Yeah, there's a few cats that I'm hoping to track down some day, too.

He also believes that people CREATE their own realities...So we can create our own misery I'm sure.

This is true, based upon the "perception is reality" viewpoint.

Yeah, I agree with this to some extent. You can attempt to shape your response to external circumstances, but obviously cannot alter circumstances that are outside your control.

If I have a family member that dies in a car accident- this is a reality that I did not create.  I can, although exceedingly difficult, manage how I cope with such an event, but even much of this reactionary emotional response is subconscious and instinctual.

We certainy can create our own misery, but this simply does not mean that we always do. There is much misery that is inflicted upon a person that he/she has no conscious control over. In these instances, one can only modulate their own response to the misery, and the formation of human response is complicated and based upon innumerable variables. So, ultimately I just don't think it's as simple as saying: "We create our own reality."

I think Jesus told us to forgive for our own benefit!!!

Yes, I absolutely agree.  Forgiveness is as healing (if not the most healing) for the forgiver as it is the one who is forgiven.  We cannot harbor negative emotions for anyone. These thoughts are like a virulent cancer that eats away at your peace and stability and can actually result in stress-induced psychosomatic illness (weakened immune state, etc).

[Nancy]

Hi ya captamajora and all,

I have written on Eckhart Tolles' forum and asked the question if this is heaven, etc.
The answer that was given was the teaching Christ gave 'The kingdom of heaven is within you'!!!
Heaven may be here inside us after all but then why can't i see my cat and my grandma and others! Unless talking to the spirits is a real phenomenon!
That's the only thing that gets my curosity.
Godbless
Nancy

[captamajora]

It seems to be that the vast majority of people in the church still regard the devil as a being, rather than a facet of our nature, as this discussion calls the "adamic man" or "ego."

We think that subversive temptations are the workings of "the devil", and therefore have their origin from an external source. 

Christ said the opposite:

"It is FROM WITHIN, from men's hearts, that evil intentions emerge[/u]: fornication, theft, murder, adultery, avarice, malice, deceit, indecency, envy, slander, pride, folly. All these evil things come from within and make a man unclean." Mk. 7.21-23

He didn't say that these evil intentions are spurred on by the devil, in the sense of external provenance, and then implanted into our hearts. All of the intentions have their origin from within the hearts of man. These evil (opposing) intentions have their root within the selfishness of man.  The pure intentions have their root within the selflessness of man. In this light, the "battle" between good and evil can be seen as the inward struggle between selflessness and selfishness, respectively.