Author Topic: Christian Activism (Never mind)  (Read 3112 times)

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Offline Lloyd

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Christian Activism (Never mind)
« on: September 20, 2012, 04:12:49 AM »
What are members' ideas for Christian activism?

While waiting to hear from you, here's my present idea.
I'm trying to hire a recruiter to start a weekly anti-war, anti-corruption young people's local gathering (St. Louis area), as well as a weekly online discussion. The latter would be for sharing ideas with people in other areas for starting similar gatherings there.

The gatherings have to be fun, informative and inspiring. What else?

« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 03:57:46 AM by Lloyd »

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2012, 04:20:40 PM »
God puts human governments in place and they all either start corrupt or become corrupt. (The exceptions were the good kings mentioned in 1+2 kings) God warned us not to desire a human ruler.
2 of the apostles were originally part of the same type of group (except they advocated violent overthrow of the government and originally thought messiah would lead them into battle to defeat the existing government.)
They were zealotes from which we get the term zealot.
My point is, you hear about that at the beginning of their discipleship as where they came from and then never hear it mentioned again.
However, if you believe this is what God wants you to do for him rather than your distaste for corrupt government
then it's a good thing.
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline Lloyd

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2012, 10:00:58 PM »
* It's disappointing that no one around here seems interested in action. Just talk.

Offline sheila

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2012, 10:21:25 PM »
our gatherings here in the spirit are fun,imforative and inspiring....there is a fire come down from heaven  right here burning tares..it IS

  come down by CHRIST  [I}S [AN]D ACTIVE if you have eyes to see

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2012, 04:51:43 AM »
Jesus said that if His Kingdom were of this world, He and His followers would fight.  They did not.

However, His Kingdom is of the world to come, the Stone Kingdom which will not be set up by the mere arm of flesh, or even co-existing with the kingdoms of this present world.

You can not set up the Kingdom of God by the arm of flesh, and certainly not here in the territories of the Kingdoms of God's Enemies.

However, the issues of the day can be well used to raise consciousness, and spread the good news of the Kingdom.
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline lomarah

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2012, 05:18:00 AM »
Sheila amen! Again!  :HeartThrob: (Made me cry lol)
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline Lloyd

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2012, 01:46:05 PM »
Quote
LS said: Jesus said that if His Kingdom were of this world, He and His followers would fight.
When he said "this world" here, Jesus was apparently talking about the Beastly government of Rome and errant Judaism that dominated Israel. He wasn't talking about the whole planet, Earth. He said to pray that His Kingdom come on Earth as it is in Heaven. And Rev. 11:15 says the governments of man are to become governments of God.

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2012, 06:28:16 PM »
I believe it wasn't kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven, but may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline Molly

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2012, 06:36:37 PM »
Quote
LS said: Jesus said that if His Kingdom were of this world, He and His followers would fight.
When he said "this world" here, Jesus was apparently talking about the Beastly government of Rome and errant Judaism that dominated Israel. He wasn't talking about the whole planet, Earth. He said to pray that His Kingdom come on Earth as it is in Heaven. And Rev. 11:15 says the governments of man are to become governments of God.

That's right.  Thy kingdom come--Thy will be done --on earth as it is in heaven.

Offline sheila

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2012, 07:46:03 PM »
 we ar not against flesh and blood  but powers and prince-i-palities in High place...like the ones  that convince christians muslims and jews that killing their enemies

  is the will of God.  Satan has gone forth and deceived all the nations[kings of the earth] to fight against this REVELATION OF CHRIST that all MEN

  ARE SAVED AND RECEIVE THE INHERITANCE THROUGH THE PROMISED SEED...So they may quit this warring over it..and devouring of one

  another over it....they will not win....  THY KINGDOM COME....THY WILL BE DONE

Offline sheila

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2012, 07:47:52 PM »
    HE will settled disputes between strong nations

Offline Molly

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2012, 07:54:52 PM »
Quote from: Sheila
we ar not against flesh and blood but powers and prince-i-palities in High place...

It's all supernatural, playing itself out on this earth.


23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

--Dan 8

Offline sheila

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2012, 07:59:29 PM »
  it appears to me the fullness of the gentiles has come..and the time of trampling of the outer court has come to an end....the uncircumcized in heart

   those without Love for their brothers...seed of Abraham...all of them....   Read Ezekiel...woe to the city of bloodshed[Christians Muslims and jews who

   spill blood over fighting for that land in Jerusalem] deceived of Satan to fight against the camp of the Holy city in the earth.....

Offline Molly

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2012, 08:04:08 PM »
I think the trampling of the outer court begins when Jerusalem is invaded by the abomination that causes desolation.

The time of the gentiles will end when Jacob's trouble begins.

We who are in Christ are no longer gentiles.

Offline sheila

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2012, 08:25:21 PM »
presumptousness is the same as witch CRAFT[babylon's spell]  which sits atop the beastly kingdoms/fornicate with kings of the earth.  O'presumptous one

   I sit a queen[heavenly rule]...by 'peace' shall destroy many=compromise in lying covenant?   three unclean inspired expressions= three 'kings"

  from the east[christian muslims and jews who do not obey Christ..the KING OF KINGS

  the abomination that causes desolation is the refusal of the annointed one....they will not 'SEE" HIM again until they say....

  Blessed is He who comes in the NAME OF THE LORD...same for professing christians that are christians in name only..and seed of Abraham

  Ishmael...that claim Jesus Christ as prophet of Isreal.....that devour one another in their carnality

   right now there are three unclean inspired expressions in Jerusalem...devouring one another..what an abomination leading to desolation....

  until the GLORY RETURNS....  it's been nothing but an abomination and desolation[struggle] til the name/nature change....

  struggle=until you BLESS ME

Offline shawn

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2012, 10:29:45 PM »
Christian Activism=loving thy neighbor.  I don't believe Christ ever got wrapped up in political nonsense, or picketed for a cause.  If we truly focused on living our neighbor that would change the world.

Offline shawn

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2012, 10:34:21 PM »
One additional thing.  With each new movement by well intentioned, or maybe not so well intentioned people...someone ends up looking for headship...leadership.  Then of course, they need finances to run said organization...and we all know money and power tend to corrupt.  So, personally my activism will be very individual with Christ as the head.  I don't need to join one more group of people pointing out what is wrong with the world. 

Offline Lloyd

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2012, 05:11:01 AM »
Quote
Shawn said: Christian Activism=loving thy neighbor.  I don't believe Christ ever got wrapped up in political nonsense, or picketed for a cause.  If we truly focused on living our neighbor that would change the world.
- One additional thing.  With each new movement by well intentioned, or maybe not so well intentioned people...someone ends up looking for headship...leadership.  Then of course, they need finances to run said organization...and we all know money and power tend to corrupt.  So, personally my activism will be very individual with Christ as the head.  I don't need to join one more group of people pointing out what is wrong with the world.
* Jesus was replacing conventional beastly politics with the politics of love. He was the king of Israel, who ran the thieves (money-changers) out of the treasury. What the apostles did after his resurrection was the kind of government he was re-instituting, one like that of the Judges in ancient Israel.
* I believe the abomination and desolation took place at the time of Rome's invasion of Israel in 70 A.D. The second temple was destroyed by them, which Jesus predicted at Mark 13: 1-4, but Jesus was the real temple, which was "destroyed", but which he rebuilt after three days, which he also predicted at John 2:19.
* Shawn, you seem to think I have bad intentions. That's a fine thing to think, just because I don't think the same way you do.
* There are always lots of reasons to be inactive, but Jesus and the apostles are our examples to follow and they were not inactive. They set the foundation of the government that would ultimately save mankind from the beast, i.e. from worldly beastly government. His followers continued his form of government in Russia and other parts of Europe (who became later Amish or Mennonites etc) and in Britain among the Saxons, who I believe were descendants of some of the ten lost tribes, to whom Paul had preached the gospel. It was the early Saxon form of government which served as a model for Thomas Jefferson as one of the founders of the U.S. government. This site, http://metanoia.org, says "Wycliffe and his associates defied church tradition by translating the Latin Bible into English, declaring in the preface, "The Bible is for the Government of the People, by the People, and for the People." That was in the mid or late 1300s.
* The U.S. was founded by Christians who meant to follow Jesus' form of government, though they weren't perfect. Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa started the movement for righteous government in the 1400s shortly after Joan of Arc gave her life for better government in France. That led to commonwealths modeled on Jesus' commonwealth, such as briefly existed in England and France, but also became part of the movement for self-government in the U.S. Cusa understood the Bible as describing righteous government, which seeks to satisfy the needs of all of the people, not just rulers. That's what commonwealth meant, i.e. providing for the common good of the people. And the term "public servants" comes from the idea that the purpose of government is to serve the people. That's how they understood the command to Love thy Neighbor.
* The U.S. government was fairly righteous until after the Civil War, when it seems that corporatism began, which was the early stage of the presently mushrooming satanic greed and power-based fascism. Of course, slavery was one of the major faults of the U.S., which was meant to be ended by the early 1800s, but which it took till Lincoln's time to finally end, though other forms of slavery and abuse continue.
* Our laws were initially based on the Bible. The main law is to love God and our neighbors. Just as the Pharisees had corrupted the Law, which Jesus came to correct, our laws have similarly become very corrupted, and Jesus will correct them too, possibly by inspiring us, just as he came to Paul and his disciples in the first century to inspire them.
* Question. Do you inactivists oppose the idea of asking our public servants to serve the public, rather than just the upper class? Do you advise Christians not to run for or accept public office in order to be true public servants ourselves? Even at the local level?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 05:27:47 AM by Lloyd »

Offline shawn

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2012, 07:33:47 AM »
Why do you assume that I believe you have ill intentions?  I am making a case that activism is best done on the individual level, and that organizations tend to corrupt.  I don't know you, so I have no opinion about your intentions. 

As for "inactivism"... I just don't believe in organized activism.  Those systems are what I do not trust.  As for getting myself involved in politics...color me skeptical.  I have better uses of my time and energy than fighting Washington.  Instead, I choose to engage in what is in front of me...what God has given me to do.  If there are people like yourself that believe they are called to do so, then by all means follow that lead.  That includes Christ followers in politics.  Who am I to tell someone else not to follow their heart?

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2012, 07:39:33 AM »
Yes, some of the early colonies such as Massachusetts, were founded by Christians with the Bible as the law document.  However, the United States of America was founded by Deists and Masons.
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline shawn

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2012, 07:43:27 AM »
PS:  there is also the issue of everything you bring up...how to apply Biblical principles to the government?  Should we?  And who's interpretation, and doctrines are we to apply?

For instance loving thy neighbor.

You might believe loving your neighbor means more social systems for the poor and middle class.  i might believe social systems for those who won't work are enabling, and would prefer to show love through training and education.  Who's right?  Should we mix religion and government?  If we do, does that actually endanger our ability to freely worship? 

Not looking for a political debate, just showing you why I don't get wrapped up in it.  I like the simplicity of my life...love those in front of me....show them kindness, love and respect. 

Offline shawn

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2012, 07:45:05 AM »
Yes, some of the early colonies such as Massachusetts, were founded by Christians with the Bible as the law document.  However, the United States of America was founded by Deists and Masons.

The idea of turning the US into a theocracy scares me.  We have seen how that has turned out in the Middle East.

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2012, 05:18:26 PM »
Shawn is right. Our purpose here is to love others.
Since only God knows if the guy asking you for money(this is an example)
will use it for food for his family or booze for himself, we need to let God show us and tell us
who and how and where we are to show his love.
There are absolutely so many people that need the love we can share to help and comfort that
we would literally kill ourselves (as the missionary Annie Armstrong did) by giving so much to so many.
(Annie starved to death giving her food away to other starving people)
This was apparently what God wanted (or she felt he wanted)her to do.
I even struggle with the time I spend in these forums but being physically handicapped I'm limited
to what I can physically and financially able to do for others.
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline jabcat

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2012, 09:56:38 PM »
Shawn is right. Our purpose here is to love others.

I agree.  One at a time, as God leads.

I even struggle with the time I spend in these forums but being physically handicapped I'm limited
to what I can physically and financially able to do for others.

You're of great benefit here.  Blessings.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline shawn

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Re: Christian Activism
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2012, 11:59:22 PM »
Amen to that Jab.  Ded you are indeed a terrific part of this community.