Hi Brian, peoples perception of either title is a bigger problem. I can say I am a universalist and Christians will say things that show they have no interest in talking to "ME" about what I believe. What perception do people have of Christians? Is it the perception people have based on organized religion? I would say yes. Maybe a better title would be "Do you search for truth in scripture, or just follow the dogma?"
That is a good question. But I feel one can do that without divorcing oneself from the rest of the Body of Christ based on dogma. UR is a dogma after all. A dogma being a doctrine or code of beliefs accepted as authoritative.
What do you mean by divorcing oneself from the rest of the Body of Christ?
I often spend more time in UR websites than in the Word.
I'm trying to break that trend. Not to abandon UR, but to set a balance. The Bible tells us who or Lord is and what He expects of us as His disciples. There's more to the Bible in my opinion than trying to decipher ET, Annihilationism, UR. And in my opinion, an objective Bible student/scholar will admit that all three dogmas can be backed up with scriptural references. Or admit that all three dogmas can be debunked with scriptural references. Personally I want to become a stronger better equipped saint overall, rather than solely an advocate of UR.
Thanks for your honesty, I go where I am led. If I am led back into an organized church I will go, but it will be to do the Lords work, not to play patsy to a group.
Do you spend anytime fellowshipping with your brothers and sisters in the Body of Christ in real life, even if they don't believe in UR?
The only problem in my experience with internet fellowship, is if it's exclusive.
And how is the fellowship in the church your at not exclusive to what you like? Please explain.
As far as hiding what I believe goes, I believe almost everything that those I fellowship with believe. Most of us believe in non-Calvinistic Eternal Security. But I'm told there are a few among us who don't believe in it. But apparently they are able to put aside their doctrinal differences, in favor of what we all do agree upon overall.
Well, then, why do you not keep quiet here for the sake of the intentions of this website? The intentions are to promote UR, so why not keep quiet and promote it?
Thus, we are in one accord.
Sure, Atheists are often in one accord as well.
For me personally, I believe faith and trust and obedience in Jesus Christ alone should be the paramount aspect of my faith.
Good, then you might see that some of us leave organizations of religion due to that exactly.
Are you fed/taught by a qualified Bible teacher who doesn't just focus on UR?
I wasn't referring to them. I see a lot more names dropped here other than Father Son and Holy Spirit, as guides.
I agree, and many many churches promote books, cd's, dvd's and even sell them inside. The church I last attended did not leave any room for that at all, the latest hot popular "CHRISTIAN" author, songwriter, dvd series is what was taught by. Keep quiet for the greater good? LOL. whatever.
One that doesn't go off on wild tangents. Let me give an example of someone I used to follow. Adam and Eve had sexual relations with the serpent. Cain and Able were fraternal twins. Can the son of the serpent, Able the son of Adam. Adam was an 8th day creation. God already created the blacks, browns, yellows and reds. And then he created Caucasian Adam. And so forth and so on. There's a couple on names dropped here often of guys who sound about as kooky as this guy. He means well I'm sure. But he's just gone off on too many wild tangents in my opinion.
Fair enough, I do not see the majority of UR proponents violating that at all.
I see it as more of a critical and concerned personal view of seeing what appears to be contempt of the rest of the Body of Christ. This is I believe supposed to be Christian Universalism (notice how the Christian part comes first). Or is it "christian" Universalism or
What do you believe the Body of Christ actually is?
To me there's just so much more about Christianity than the dogmas of ET (and all it's various aspects), Annihilationism and UR.
Yes, but what I do not believe you are seeing is that saying there is more to "Christianity" is the problem. I do not follow Christianity, I follow Christ, if you believe they are one in the same you are deceived.
Good point. I'll rephrase that as a personal rule of thumb. And that it would be what to start out with.
Thank you, 1 Timothy 2:4 is a great place to start too.
Jesus didn't spend so much time warning us about the dire consequences of sin and disobedience, if there wasn't anything to be afraid of. Or tell us He was the ONLY way to the Father, if there were some other way. Jesus is not Mr. Rogers or Barney the dinosaur.
No, I most certainly do not want Universalists to accept the teaching of eternal hellfire. I'll be glad to PM you many emails I sent to my cousin the "ET" pastor, refuting eternal hellfire, before even hearing the term Universal Salvation. And surprise, he didn't explode or tell me I was going to hell or call me a heretic.
Some people in church leadership are far more skillful than just coming right out and calling someone by that name, but it does happen, there are far more people in churches that are afraid to speak their minds than you may be willing to admit. The problem is not seeing them as good faithful Godly servants who keep to themselves for the greater good, It is seeing the much greater victory in Christ if they could feel free to be who they really are.
This keeping quiet nonsense is not a better way to be, it is bondage, and people who become comfortable in their bondage or accept it are easier to deceive.
We must not cause dissention within the Body. If one Can't attend a Fellowship without stirring up dissention, then I agree, he shouldn't attend. But I feel that many of us can learn to get along with our brothers and sisters, even if they believe a person can lose their salvation and I don't, or they believe in eternal hell fire, because their Bible says so, and I don't, so far. I'm willing to concede I might be wrong.
But see, you completely overlook that I was just sharing
Most often it is the one who dares to speak up that is accused by the ones who are really to blame for dissention. You seem to have the mind that the body of a church is the rule and one must not speak their mind and remain faithful to what they believe or they are causing trouble. You further project this nonsense by taking the stance that this is a UR website and is separate from the body of Christ.
So really, the problem causers are the ones who keep people in bondage through the group mentality of doctrine.
Maybe I'm compromising or selling myself short, but we have a jolly good time praising the Lord and loving one another.
Sure, as long as you agree with them, your fine. What deception.
The way I see it, if Jesus could go 30 years without speaking against the Pharisees and teachers of the law and proclaiming the New Covenant. I can spend a few years in the traditional Body of Christ. I feel obligated to do so, just as Jesus was obligated.
That not correct, there is nothing, not one thing in scripture that depicts Jesus as keeping "silent" for the cause of those around him. This is rationalization on your part.
You feel obligated to a group of people primarily. That is bondage.