Author Topic: About Brian Leaving  (Read 1102 times)

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Paul Hazelwood

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About Brian Leaving
« on: December 18, 2008, 04:32:50 PM »

Martin,

I could not reply to the thread where Brian deleted his posts in "are you a christian or a universalist" but I am going to say what needs to be said in case it can help someone else.   If anyone happens to have Brians e-mail or is in contact with him I would appreciate that you send him this post.

Whatever you felt with the Holy Spirit may not have been directly from what Brian did. 

Brian was a brother that has reached out to me in private and upon reading that thread, and my responce to him, I take accountability in what happened.

I violated his trust in the sense that when I responded to his post I was responding out of the emotion of my past hurt, not by Brian, but all the people who have betrayed me because I left organized religion.  Rather than putting that aside I went on the attack disguising my contempt through the appearance of sound reasoning.

On the surface, some would say I did nothing wrong, however, considering what I know Brian is going through I either should have kept my mouth shut or approached his post without the emotional baggage attached.

The grieving of the Holy Spirit did not happen because Brian removed his post, it is because I did not hold my brother precious and I helped hurt a dear brother.

I am deeply sorrowful for the part I played in all of this and can only ask for forgiveness for the damage that has been done.


Offline Nathan

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2008, 04:38:16 PM »
I'm finding these forums have much to teach all of us on many different levels.  I pray none will remove themselves from the oven of God until we are fully baked in him.  There's nothing worse than dealing with a half-baked believer.  May we all have peace with this and I pray God's peace in Brian and give him strength and vision through this time of wrestling in his life.  May he know that we are still his family and we feel his pain as we release both him and the pain at the feet of the cross where the river of life flows.

Offline Molly

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2008, 04:56:37 PM »
Thanks for that post, Paul.  I was very saddened by Brian leaving so precipitously,too.

I'm glad somebody said something.

These boards can require a certain 'toughness' sometimes that not everyone has.

I'm so used to be beaten up for my faith on a regular basis, that it pretty much rolls off my back now.

I'm pretty much completely hedged from any kind of assault.

But, I know that many tenderhearted  young ones in the faith can be battered easily, since I was there once.

We do need to be more careful and clearer about where we are coming from sometimes.

On the other hand, it looks like you just learned something very important, and you were willing and able to learn, and you've grown another 10 feet towards being a 'church elder.' 

Thank you.  :cloud9: :HeartThrob:


Offline Taffy

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2008, 05:17:30 PM »
Paul
Thanks for this Thread :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:, many folk have been  Torn because of religion and  will sure  Understand what you have shared. :icon_flower:
« Last Edit: December 18, 2008, 05:29:15 PM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

martincisneros

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2008, 03:34:04 AM »
When he did what he did, I think he altered his email address on his profile to a nonworking bogus one so that if he comes back (?), it'll be when he decides he will and not before.  I didn't catch his email address before his leaving, so I don't know what to tell you as far as any way to contact him other than to pray.  Interceding will bring the two of you back across one another's paths.

Kimberlaina

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2008, 04:30:01 AM »
I read that thread of Brian's frequently and I feel that I learned a lot from it and was challenged by it. I remain curious who or what put those ideas on his heart -- the idea that some people are more universalist than Christian.  When I first read it, I wondered if that's how he saw us at Tentmaker, or if there was some other motivation there that we just weren't understanding.  What I do know is that even though I disagreed with some of the ideas presented there, I was challenged to spend more time with my Bible.

Offline Brian

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2009, 05:13:17 AM »

Martin,

I could not reply to the thread where Brian deleted his posts in "are you a christian or a universalist" but I am going to say what needs to be said in case it can help someone else.   If anyone happens to have Brians e-mail or is in contact with him I would appreciate that you send him this post.

No need, I guess I racked up enough points to finally see this.

Quote
Whatever you felt with the Holy Spirit may not have been directly from what Brian did. 

No indeed.

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Brian was a brother that has reached out to me in private and upon reading that thread, and my response to him, I take accountability in what happened.

Please don't do that. My comments to you were only of value because it illustrates how distraught I was at the time. I was my last "episode" actually. Since then I've recovered a great deal. I guess it had to go out with a bang. I wasn't in a rational frame of mind at the time, so please disregard whatever I said.

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I violated his trust in the sense that when I responded to his post I was responding out of the emotion of my past hurt, not by Brian, but all the people who have betrayed me because I left organized religion.  Rather than putting that aside I went on the attack disguising my contempt through the appearance of sound reasoning.

Perhaps it was sound reasoning. Perhaps I was on fire when I wrote it. Perhaps the Spirit was working through me, and I stumbled the Spirit and grieved Him. To me it seemed like I just had my panties in a bunch. UR or not I will always be a conservative orthodox (with a side of heresy) fundamentalist. And I had let myself get irked by some of the less fundamental saints here.
 
Quote
On the surface, some would say I did nothing wrong, however, considering what I know Brian is going through I either should have kept my mouth shut or approached his post without the emotional baggage attached.

Hey, fair is fair, I posted it with emotional baggage.

Quote
The grieving of the Holy Spirit did not happen because Brian removed his post, it is because I did not hold my brother precious and I helped hurt a dear brother.
I am deeply sorrowful for the part I played in all of this and can only ask for forgiveness for the damage that has been done.

Oh Lord, I'm so sorry I put you into the position of feeling that way. You did nothing wrong. I was on an emotional bender. I had been contemplating erasing everything sometime before our last exchange. What I did, I did rashly. Later on, after I snapped out of it, I just wanted a fresh start.

Love ya Paul,
Brain

For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Offline Brian

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2009, 05:25:59 AM »
When he did what he did, I think he altered his email address on his profile to a nonworking bogus one so that if he comes back (?), it'll be when he decides he will and not before.  I didn't catch his email address before his leaving, so I don't know what to tell you as far as any way to contact him other than to pray.  Interceding will bring the two of you back across one another's paths.

I don't know what I was doing. I was just trying to erase. I didn't realize that when I changed the address to "nobody@nowhere" or whatever it was, that I would inadvertently shut myself out. I thought you knew for sure it was me when I came back as MacPherson, based on you response to my introduction on the Welcome page. But perhaps you were only suspicious. And of course I didn't confirm your suspicion. And also I of course had no access as a "new comer" to see these articles. I honestly just wanted a fresh start. I certainly didn't mean to cause any problems.
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Offline Brian

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2009, 05:33:49 AM »
I read that thread of Brian's frequently and I feel that I learned a lot from it and was challenged by it. I remain curious who or what put those ideas on his heart -- the idea that some people are more universalist than Christian.  When I first read it, I wondered if that's how he saw us at Tentmaker, or if there was some other motivation there that we just weren't understanding.  What I do know is that even though I disagreed with some of the ideas presented there, I was challenged to spend more time with my Bible.


I do know that I was going through a lot of personal conflict at that time. That conflict was being expressed in what I posted. Maybe after I take my breather. And this time pray, before writing. I can post something even better. Right now at this minute, I'm thinking I did pray before I wrote it. I was too messed up, maybe under attack, to know for sure anymore.
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Offline Molly

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2009, 08:34:11 AM »
Brian, is that You?  Great!  All's well that ends well!

martincisneros

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2009, 10:22:06 AM »
I thought you knew for sure it was me when I came back as MacPherson, based on you response to my introduction on the Welcome page.
I wasn't going to expose for the general viewing audience of the boards that it was you, with the exception of having made a brief comment a while back to the mods.  I only did that because of how you'd abandoned your previous account on such public terms with deleting all of your posts.  But I seldom am upfront about all that I know.  I've had a very painful reminder within the last three weeks or so of the consequences of being upfront about more of my knowledge of all that's going on than what's socially correct and acceptable.  I'll volunteer info sometimes about people and situations, as I did on the welcome central board with your opening thread as MacPherson, giving people the opportunity to be upfront with me.  As you were hasty in abandoning your previous account, someone else was hasty in abandoning a couple of their accounts elsewhere...so, don't feel like you did anything that nobody else in the history of the world has ever done or anything like that.  You weren't the first person to freak out about something, and neither will you be the last.

This closing comment will be absolutely meaningless to anyone else on this forum but one person in particular.  I'll clarify what I mean for that one person if I'm asked, but won't clarify for anyone else asking about this that it's not addressed to.  It's an odd situation where either an email or a PM would really get me into it, or cause 7 times worse on an incident that happened between 3 and 4 weeks ago, depending on when they see this (re: mid-December).  Not sure where else to post this.  I'll use the literary form they made me aware of October 4th of '07, that in all of my English language and English literature studies I'd never run across previously, to my own eternal embarassment, and was sketchy when they used it around me: "Theta Sigma Lungbarrow will be an impeccably self restrained gentleman in the next season.  I'm deeply looking forward to the next season."

Again, a couple of overwhelmingly meaningless statements to anyone else but one person and I'll leave it at that.  Thinking it through, there couldn't have been a more appropriate thread for me to have posted that.  Anyway, Brian, you left me a couple of messages indicating you'd need some personal time to chew on a few things, so whether you come back as Brian, as MacPherson, or as some yet future Regeneration, I look forward to future conversations with you.  And with regards to your email to me, Charles Slagle's one of my best friends 'cause his and my struggles, temptations, and testimony aren't all of that different.  They differ most specifically with regards to time frames and calendar years involved and in not much else.  If Holy Spirit allows me to, perhaps I'll be able to share more with you later along the lines of what you'd written me by PM and email.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2009, 03:50:19 PM »

Hi Brian,

I understand what you are saying completely, there is nothing to disagree with you on, only that I know that through what happened we both seen things in us change for the better.

Thats what I pray for dude.

Love you too



Offline Nathan

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2009, 04:27:29 PM »
I had to do a double take on that picture Brian . . . you look like you and I could be twins.  Seriously, you look exactly like me.  The only difference is I wear glasses.  Very eerie!!! :mshock:

Offline Brian

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2009, 06:17:06 PM »
Anyway, Brian, you left me a couple of messages indicating you'd need some personal time to chew on a few things, so whether you come back as Brian, as MacPherson, or as some yet future Regeneration, I look forward to future conversations with you.  And with regards to your email to me, Charles Slagle's one of my best friends 'cause his and my struggles, temptations, and testimony aren't all of that different.  They differ most specifically with regards to time frames and calendar years involved and in not much else.  If Holy Spirit allows me to, perhaps I'll be able to share more with you later along the lines of what you'd written me by PM and email.

When I first read your comments on the tail end of the thread I posted, I took them the wrong way. I was so whacked out with lack of sleep yesterday. I'm not going anywhere except taking a breather from all internet activities and just spending some good old fashioned pre-internet time in the Word for a week or so. I've gained a tremendous amount of stability in the last couple of weeks. What I so much appreciated about Tentmaker was seeing how clearly I wasn't the only one to have a nervous breakdown. Nor was I over reacting. Charles Slagle was one of the first people to let me know, that yes, it can be that bad or worse for the best of Saints. And there's no shame in it. I shared with the mentor the Lord provided me with at the tiny fellowship I attend, that I had been pretty much fully delivered lately. Then I shared with him the volume of Saints who have either become apostates (like my brother who's also my best friend) or ended up in psychiatric hospitals. This guy has been around the block a few times as they say, but still he was quite surprised by that declaration. I assured him I had miles of testimony over this. Who knows, perhaps my experience and seeking past counseling with this elder and the pastor, will make them see things in a slightly different light. I had a wonderful opportunity to deeply share UR with my "kid' brother Jeff, a few days ago. He asked me if I had shared any of this within the fellowship I attend, and I told him I didn't want to stir up dissention, which the Lord hates. But I said I had a feeling there were a at least a few closet Universalists in most congregations. "A few? The ever insightful Jeff asked, "Try a lot. A lot, Brian."
Anyways, if you let me, I'll change my handle from MacPherson back to Brian, just as I changed it to Brian from Lamentation.

For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Offline Brian

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Re: About Brian Leaving
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2009, 06:41:33 PM »
I had to do a double take on that picture Brian . . . you look like you and I could be twins.  Seriously, you look exactly like me.  The only difference is I wear glasses.  Very eerie!!! :mshock:

Reeeally? I always pictured you as being handsome. I wear glasses most of the time too, so it's that bad. Ever have anyone tell you look like Tom Hanks? I get that all the time, although I don't see it myself. That picture is from a set of pictures posted to a Las Vegas discussion group. I'm a Vegas resident. I'm not the least bit into gambling (not just because I'm a Christian, but because it's just not my bag). Anyways, I came across this group while searching out some local happening. There's so much lively banter there, I ended up becoming a regular. And of course I was "backslidden" at the time. Every June they all arrive from all over the country and the world, to have a get-together. Seeing as how I already live in Vegas, I dropped in on their festivities a couple of times. Now for those who want to see me in all my splendor, I'm in this YouTube clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpvP5zxiTEE
For those who don't want to sit through all of it, I'm at 1:04/10:51 and 7:33/10:51. Hurry up and watch, before I have second thoughts and delete this small portion of this post. :icon_jokercolor:
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10