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Offline fullarmor2

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1 John question
« on: November 22, 2009, 11:09:09 PM »
   In 1 John  it says "whoever is born of God does not commit sin".       Whats this mean?     
For all those who live in the shadow of death,  a glorious light has dawned!  And for all those who stumble in the darkness,   behold,   your light has come!!

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2009, 02:30:57 AM »
   In 1 John  it says "whoever is born of God does not commit sin".       Whats this mean?     

A wonderful question.   To me, it means that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.   It means that our Spiritual nature is bound to, yet separate from our carnal nature.   I believe the seed of Christ is planted in every man because Jesus said he is the light that lighteth every man who comes into the world.  Those who deny that Jesus has come in the flesh are 'not of God'. 

anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Livelystone

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2009, 11:05:31 AM »
There are two men (spirits) in you. The first one is Adam and is the old you who has grown from a seed passed down from your earthly father into the fruit baring tree that it became as you matured into adulthood...... whether it is mostly good or evil varies from person to person and this applies to both male and female

The second one is Christ who is the 'new you" and this "new you" does not sin....... ever!!!!

How far along that seed has matured into a fruit barring tree depends on how much it has been fed food from heaven because earthly garbage such as what is taught in todays church will only stunt its growth.

So if you commit a sin that means very simply that the new "Christ in you" is not ruling over your heart like it should.

A lot of Christians like to blame sin on their soul however every spirit has its own soul....... Adam had Eve and Christ in you has the woman who is a virgin and is reserved in heave n for you as your inheritance should you ever get to have her.

Christians who blame their old soul "Eve" need to pay attention the the words of John the Baptist who said "it is not right for a  man to have his brothers wife". Unfortunately that bit of advice cost John his head........ Preaching the truth does have its consequences  :sigh:

Blessings

Doug


Offline Cardinal

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2009, 07:21:52 PM »
 :cloud9: Well I HEARD that Doug, but let me ask you this; don't we have our "brother's wife" UNTIL we receive the soul that is our inheritance? Anyway, THAT blessed me. I knew you had a piece of the puzzle for me..... :thumbsup: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Livelystone

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2009, 08:24:40 PM »
:cloud9: Well I HEARD that Doug, but let me ask you this; don't we have our "brother's wife" UNTIL we receive the soul that is our inheritance? Anyway, THAT blessed me. I knew you had a piece of the puzzle for me..... :thumbsup: Blessings....

I figured you would hear that and I understand what you are saying about what already is concerning our soul. It is the source of the likeness of sins that makes up our tribulation that we are to overcome

As Paul said their bodies celestial and bodies terrestrial. The soul is a celestial body that was shaped by  the desires of a terrestrial body that caused Paul to say "we keep our bodies under subjection" thus denying Eve with Adam their desires to rule over our hearts in place of Christ

Although by law the High Priest that is Christ in us is only allowed to wed a virgin Paul says we still should be able to be presented as a chaste virgin....... one who appears as a virgin but because virgins are born and not made God calls those as though they are even though they are not so we are not hindered in receiving blessings from Him until that day when the tabernacle (soul) of God comes to be with man.

Blessings to you

Doug


Offline Cardinal

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2009, 08:35:47 PM »
 :cloud9: Wow........had to read that last paragraph several times. I haven't heard the quickening from it yet, but I know it's there, a deeper truth for me.  :thumbsup: Thanks........ :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Molly

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2009, 08:56:42 PM »
Quote from: Doug
one who appears as a virgin but because virgins are born and not made

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


--John 3



[born] "again"

G509
ἄνωθεν
anōthen
an'-o-then
From G507; from above; by analogy from the first; by implication anew: - from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.



3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


--Rev 14



[for they are] "virgins"

G3933
παρθένος
parthenos
par-then'-os
Of unknown origin; a maiden; by implication an unmarried daughter: - virgin.



A virgin is an unmarried daughter, but this passage is talking about men.

I think you taught me this a long time ago, Doug.  These 144,000 are men who are women who have not been defiled by women, i.e. virgins--the soul born from above?









Barry DuPont

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2009, 09:43:52 PM »
   In 1 John  it says "whoever is born of God does not commit sin".       Whats this mean?     
It means (in this setting) to not be under the law where "sin is the transgression of the law".
To not be in sin consience.
Like in this example:
Hbr 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 
Hbr 10:2   For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 
Hbr 10:3   But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year. 
Hbr 10:4   For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 

So then if ever an old covenant sacrifice had actually taken away sin then the worshipers would have then no more consience of sins and would have ceased offering sacrifices.

This says a lot about the once and for all sacrifice of Christ which is what John is alluding to in his statement.

Blessings Barry

Livelystone

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2009, 11:07:03 PM »
Quote from: Doug
one who appears as a virgin but because virgins are born and not made


3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


--Rev 14



[for they are] "virgins"

G3933
παρθένος
parthenos
par-then'-os
Of unknown origin; a maiden; by implication an unmarried daughter: - virgin.



A virgin is an unmarried daughter, but this passage is talking about men.

I think you taught me this a long time ago, Doug.  These 144,000 are men who are women who have not been defiled by women, i.e. virgins--the soul born from above?



For sure our old spirit/soul adam and eve being married have become one flesh and this flesh is unclean having been infected with sin that is not only a verb but is a noun....... something much more serious because that identifies it as a principality and life giving force that being called in Scripture to be the serpent seed automactially adheres to the law of the seed and brings forth an action/verb that is in its own image aka transgression of the law aka sin.

Still and I speak only for myself but do share the warning that IMO to be defiled with woman also has a corporate identity and that is the denominational and institutionalized church system. She is defined with not only purple but scarlet that is the color of sin.

For a long time I have tried to fellowship with the church and although I do believe we are not to become elitist we are to be separate and not become defiled by the church of today. In my particular case where the church I was associating myself with used leaven bread for their communion was doing so because it is a prophecy of the sin that is being served to the flock by their clergy.

God has spoken to me very plainly that I need to disassociate myself from them or suffer the consequences. I cannot believe that He has only me in mind for that and although I would not care to be labeled as one to stir up trouble I feel strongly that all of those who are hearing the call to come forward seriously consider where and with whom God wants them to be in this age.

Blessings

Doug


Offline Cardinal

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2009, 12:07:07 AM »
 :cloud9: He essentially said the same thing to me, Doug. It's a matter of accepting spiritual coverings. That's why I don't go unless He tells me to go for His purposes here or there, because to do so without being sent is to accept the spirit of Jezebel for my covering, as it is theirs. Further, one day He quickened to me, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord", in a totally new way.  :winkgrin:

Many years ago, He called me out when I was frustrated with hearing a carnal rapture sermon from a pastor who had confessed to me that he knew better. I said in my heart, "LORD, where can I go to be fed?", not expecting any reply. He said, "On the mountaintop."

Isaiah 2:3 KJV
And many people shall go and say , Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 12:13:25 AM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2009, 12:08:55 AM »

I got the same sermon from Him, Doug.
I tried dozens of places to fellowship and each one was toxic.
Since Jesus is the pattern, we simply need to ask: Who taught Him?

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2009, 12:11:44 AM »


Cardinal! Less than 2 minutes apart this time!
We're getting better!

Offline Molly

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2009, 12:14:11 AM »
I think maybe once we are born from above we cannot be covered with what Cardinal calls 'the Jezebel covering' because we can no longer be [have our thoughts, beliefs] controlled by men.

But what about all those who are in churches that say they are born again Christians? :dontknow:

Offline Cardinal

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2009, 12:20:13 AM »
 :cloud9: He always deals with a firstfruits first.......the sons are being made to be one with the Head, so that they can go AS Him, to woo the bride. Unfortunately, another man has "had" her to wife all this time, but she is about to become a "widow" so she can marry his Brother, and raise up seed in His name/nature. Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline jabcat

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2009, 12:51:59 AM »
:cloud9: He always deals with a firstfruits first.......the sons are being made to be one with the Head, so that they can go AS Him, to woo the bride. Unfortunately, another man has "had" her to wife all this time, but she is about to become a "widow" so she can marry his Brother, and raise up seed in His name/nature. Blessings.....

Sorry, I've been a little scattered, forgive me if I missed it.  What do you think will be the process of the "widowing", Card?  Where will all the pastors be?
Thanks, James.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2009, 01:14:59 AM »
Jab, it's just the destruction of the Babylon system through His Word/Sons

Offline jabcat

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2009, 01:16:12 AM »
OK...so maybe the pastors will be some of the ones changing as well then?  Thanks.

Offline Pierac

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2009, 01:20:12 AM »
   In 1 John  it says "whoever is born of God does not commit sin".       Whats this mean?     

Our Sins Are Imputed to the Christ!

Remember Paul...

All Things Are Lawful and All Things Are Pure
What we now find in the teachings of the Holy Scriptures for those presently "in Christ," those who are mature Christians, is something very different than being guided by written Laws, even if they are the written Laws of God What we discover is the fact that we are now under UNWRITTEN PRINCIPLES; we are NOT under any written laws whatever, even if those laws are the most sacrosanct of the Laws of God. That's right. We are not under any of them. Let me be plain as the apostle Paul was, if you break any of those laws (name any law you want, even the most holy, righteous, and good), you will no longer be considered a sinner by God the Father or Christ Jesus if you are "in Christ Jesus." What a statement to make! Yes, but it is true in every way.

Let us look at this closely. In a context in which the apostle Paul spoke of the things done by those in the flesh-fornication, idolators, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, the covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners (of such evils the Scriptures have many written Laws that utterly condemn such actions and tell people NOT to observe such deeds )-the apostle gave a very opposite appraisal from what most people would think he would give. Look at this carefully, because many people find it difficult to believe that Paul would state such a thing. Paul brazenly states in the midst of such evil things,

"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."
1 Corinthians 6: 12

As clear as anyone could make it (unless people have preconceived ideas that they never look at the context of any given subject because of their prejudices), Paul said that he was at liberty to do any of those evils just mentioned, because "all things are lawful unto me." But he quickly added and thankfully, because this is what he wanted people to understand, "but all things are NOT expedient [beneficial]." The truth was NONE OF THOSE THINGS he just mentioned was expedient [or beneficial] and he did not want himself or anyone else to do them. In spite of this fact, in God's eyes (now that we are NOT under the Law since we are no longer reckoned to be sinners), even those evil actions have to be reckoned as lawful to do. This is simply because Christians are no longer under any law, though no mature Christian should ever do terrible things that our society and common sense show are evil.

It is a matter of looking at our legal position that we have in Christ. Though none of us should do the evil things Paul mentioned above, we are still not sinners in God's eyes no matter what we do because all of us are "in Christ" and reckoned to be sin free. We will always be accounted sin free because our standard of conduct or behavior is no longer governed by the written Law with which God judges us when we come before His Judgment Seat. We are no longer gauged or monitored by God via the former standard known as the written Law, not even by the written laws God gave to Israel in the Old Covenant period. That is what the apostle Paul stated and that is precisely what he meant. This is a brand new way of viewing what is proper to do and what is not proper, what is sin in God's eyes for the Christian and what is not sin for the Christian. Hold on to these teachings of Paul and John, because I am not through yet.

Look at 1 Corinthians 10:23. In a context in which Paul speaks of offering sacrifices to idols and to demons, what foods are clean and unclean, and in his discourse on the evils of outright idolatry, notice what Paul interjects (in the middle of his context of those evil things) to show that he and other mature Christians are free to do as they wish, he states,
"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."
1 Corinthians 10:23


Taken from the studies of ELM
Paul






Offline jabcat

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2009, 01:29:32 AM »
Interesting, Paul.  I'll paraphrase what I heard one time and what I think about this;

Once we've been given the faith to believe on Jesus unto salvation, then these things are dealt with as a family matter.    :bigGrin:  Father spanks, but it's corrective.   :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 02:05:34 AM by jabcat »

Offline Cardinal

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2009, 02:19:02 AM »
 :cloud9: Amen Paul.......it's true........Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2009, 02:47:36 AM »

I feel led to add to my last post.
This is not "just" the destruction of the traditions of men.
This is the time when all men will come to know the Lord through His Son.

Offline jabcat

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2009, 02:48:53 AM »
Lord hasten the day!

Barry DuPont

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2009, 02:57:17 PM »
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.  
1Jo 3:5   And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.  
1Jo 3:6   Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.  

Why? Because they were then not under the ministry of death and condemnation but rather "in Christ". And "in Him" there is no sin.

 
1Jo 3:7   Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness {by abiding in Christ} is righteous, even as he is righteous. {by token of abiding in Christ}  
1Jo 3:8   He that committeth sin is of the devil {As Adam came under law by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and so was then of the devil}; for the devil sinneth from the beginning {by murdering Adam and Eve by bringing their consience under law, as opposed to under love consience which is characterized in expedience and the consequence associated with expediency}. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.  
1Jo 3:9   Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Well what about 1 John 1:9 then?

1Jo 1:7   But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.  
1Jo 1:8   If we say that we have no sin, {as the Jews were saying} we deceive ourselves, and the truth {of Christ crucified} is not in us.  
1Jo 1:9   If we confess our sins, {As ones who were under law, Mark 1:5, 1 Tim. 1:15. This was the problem with the Jews, they could not admit that they were sinners under the law and needed Christ. They thought they were or could be rightous through the law.} he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  
1Jo 1:10   If we say that we have not sinned {as the Jews proclaimed Luke 18:11, John 8:24 and context, by saying that they were rightous through the law}, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.  
 
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,  

Barry
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 03:10:06 PM by Barry DuPont »

Barry DuPont

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2009, 03:04:13 PM »
"Sin" consciousness, and "love" consciousness are like two different objects that cannot effectively occupy the same place at the same time. This is essentially the message of 1 John.
Where sin means separation and love brings expediency.
Blessings Barry

Zeek

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Re: 1 John question
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2009, 03:31:39 PM »
"Sin" consciousness, and "love" consciousness are like two different objects that cannot effectively occupy the same place at the same time. This is essentially the message of 1 John.
Where sin means separation and love brings expediency.
Blessings Barry

 :thumbsup:

24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.