Author Topic: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?  (Read 1356 times)

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Offline jabcat

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"We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« on: December 30, 2008, 10:11:40 AM »
I accompanied my wife to the building with a steeple Sunday.  I was already doubtful about staying for the "sermon", then the minister said more in one sentence than I chose to tolerate.  He made this statement; "We have earned an eternity in a sinner's hell".   I tapped my wife on the leg and said "see you later" and left.  (She's OK with that...she knows where I stand and mostly agrees, she's just less "radical" than me.)

I went home, sat at the computer and wrote a letter to him along these lines, abbreviated, paraphrased;

(the nice greetings, thanks for your faithfulness to the Lord, etc.)  Then I said "I hope there's a spot deep down inside you where you have trouble really believing some things we're been taught about our Father...I hope you'll let the Holy Spirit work [in this area].  I'd like to address one sentence from your sermon".

"We've earned..."

God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may have mercy on all...Romans 11:32.

"an eternity..."

aion, aoinios = an age, a period of time with a beginning and an ending

"in a sinner's hell..."

"Hell" is mistranslated from gehenna, sheol, Hades, and Tartaroo, which mean a garbage dump outside Jeruselam, the grave, the unseen, etc.  The word "hell" is not in the original languages.

So...I walked out (no big scene, just quietly left), and wrote this letter (haven't sent it).  I had a moment or two of "am I being intolerant, too critical, etc.?"...What would you do?  What would your reaction be?  Would it push any buttons, or be no big deal? 

God's blessing, James.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 10:14:12 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline B_T

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2008, 11:38:02 AM »
Cum on :) Send this letter and I'll be glad to hear the responce ;)

martincisneros

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2008, 02:07:24 PM »
- We've earned an eternity in Hell?  We came to the end of the year and that's what's in our package?  Golly.  Can I get an exchange?  Is it still within the 7 day exchange policy?

- Isn't that why God created marriage?  Just pray that God actually gives me an ol' ball and chain if that's what I really deserve!  (And I can hear the ladies sarcastically saying "Isn't he a sweetheart?!!"  But women have to be able to put up with the men for the rest of their lives too, so it goes both ways.)

- Sooo....God's in the process of giving the devil his own kingdom too??  I thought only His Son could have one!  Golly.  Talk about no respecter of persons.

- Sooo....if God's in the process of giving the devil his own eternal kingdom as well, then how is Mormonism wrong when it says that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers?  Isn't that the forced scenario of your paradigm??

- You don't even know me.  How can you say that I deserve an eternity in Hell?  Maybe I deserve dinner at Chili's instead.

- I deserve an eternity in Hell?  Isn't that why God has me listening to your sermons?  Isn't that why I'm in your church??

- I thought that that was why God created traffic!

- Sooo, you're saying that I'd have more hope as an atheist...

- So that's how God treats His enemies after all of that stuff that Jesus preached?  HYPOCRITE!!

- So, if I love, fast, and pray for my enemies and God hates His, can I have the throne instead?

- So, you're saying that when we no longer have our bodies and we're who we really are without any of the pretenses that God is Who He really is without all of the pretenses of your religion?  And He's better than Hitler how??

- Isn't our choice of eternal heaven or eternal hell the equivalent of an irresponsible parent giving a todler a machine gun, knowing that kid's about to put it in his mouth??

- If heaven and hell are our choice, then didn't Christ die in vain?  I mean, I thought that heaven is supposed to be what He was choosing for all of us and now you're saying that God won't honor that sacrifice where everyone is concerned without their joint-participation in that sacrifice.  If that's the case, then how is Christianity better than 613 commandment Judaism where you have to sign on the bottomline for the package of God's blessings?

- Golly.  The Blood of Christ is only slightly better than the blood of bulls and goats. I mean it's still measureable. Doesn't have universal application except in this brief life time.  And how am I the one that's the blasphemer?

- So, if you're saying that ultimately my choice is more important than the Blood of Christ 'cause afterall, according to you, the Blood's powerless without my choice, - if this is really what you're saying - then how am I the idolater, blasphemer, and the one filled with self love?  You just claimed that I'm the god who is more powerful than Christ's Blood!  No, no, no, you can't take it back now.  Bow before me!

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2008, 04:15:25 PM »

Send it.

When I visited church last I encountered a sermon where we was told we are responsible for 35,000 people a day pouring into hell because of the people who have not even heard the name of Christ.  Of course then we can help by giving him money.

I seriously got sick to my stomach.  I am writing a responce to him, but have been side tracked lately, I should not wait too much longer I think.

Let us know if you get a responce James.


Offline jabcat

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2008, 09:57:40 PM »
Interesting comments guys.  That's really what I was wondering, what reactions others might have...I've experienced my own, and sometimes I have to watch to make sure I don't get too critical...I still consider these folks my brothers and sisters, but reconciling all the differences in my own mind can be really difficult...still interested in responses/reactions...thanks
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

martincisneros

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2008, 02:48:56 AM »
I do believe in altar calls, evangelism, leading people to Christ, having people pray with you to cast all of their cares upon Him and to embrace His Lordship publicly, and in a limited number of tracts that don't get into the abusive exaggerating crap.  I have no problems with 4 spiritual laws pamphlets.  Think through what they present:

God has a wonderful plan for your life.
Something went horribly wrong along the way.
Christ Jesus is the one that bridges between what you lack and where you need to be.
He's standing at the door and knocking and it's time to repent, believe, and obey the Gospel.

Each of the above points is rooted deeply in Scripture, particularly from Acts to 2Corinthians or Ephesians.  And they usually take people right to Romans 10:9-10 for reclaiming the life that God's always had for them.  And then the fellowship of the Scriptures, Holy Spirit, and the saints is emphasized to the new believer.  There's zero wrong with that.

Chick tracts, though, now that's an entirely different thing and thankfully 1Corinthians 5 and 2Peter 3 have an answer for those. :Sparkletooth:  I've genuinely wondered to what degree those that are in possession of further truth are treasuring up wrath against the day of judgment and revelation of the righteous judgment of God 'cause we have what it takes to save the world and too often are sitting on our hands waiting.  Whether these folks out there are our fellow members of the Body of Christ or simply citizens of our Kingdom, we have the words of eonian life and so often are much to silent not wanting to get into it with the fundamentalists.  So, we just leave folks in their misery and despair much too often.

If that wound up being right, that's still not meriting an eternity in Hell 'cause we weren't the watchmen on the wall of the book of Ezekiel or whatever.  And that's not in the category of the judgment of acts of sin.  That's in the area of Scripture that says that for those that know the good that they ought to do and aren't doing it, then to them it's sin.  As far as anything supposedly earned from the first Adam and compounded with interest to our accounts -- absolutely not!!  All of that was defeated on the Cross. 

Scripturally I'd have more grounds for wandering into the excesses of Carlton Pearson's brand of Pseudo Universalism before I could ever return to the kind of preaching about your being able to go to eternal hell for lying just the same as for stealing, etc.  'Cause at least when the Holy Spirit slams the brakes on how far Carlton's wandered into applauding those who commit such things as the last verse or two of Romans 1 says, he'd probably have Colossians 2 for his defense about having gotten a little out of balance about walking free from the "touch not, taste not, handle not -- which all perish with the using anyway." 

The Eternal Hellangelists don't even have that much Scripture to stand on in their defense. 

Carlton can at least be brought into balance much easier.  But Eternal Hell isn't a just Scriptural judgment that's plainly laid out for us in Scripture in either the laws of restitution or the curses of the law for even Adolf Hitler, the founders of the ACLU, the founders of Planned Parenthood, Stalin, Luther, Calvin, etc., etc., etc.

Offline jabcat

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2008, 02:55:14 AM »
 :thumbsup:...agree wrt Carleton, Chick tracts :bsad:, and this; "God has a wonderful plan for your life.
Something went horribly wrong along the way.
Christ Jesus is the one that bridges between what you lack and where you need to be.
He's standing at the door and knocking and it's time to repent, believe, and obey the Gospel.

Each of the above points is rooted deeply in Scripture, particularly from Acts to 2Corinthians or Ephesians.  And they usually take people right to Romans 10:9-10 for reclaiming the life that God's always had for them.  And then the fellowship of the Scriptures, Holy Spirit, and the saints is emphasized to the new believer.  There's zero wrong with that."

Good word.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline jabcat

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2008, 02:56:37 AM »
When I visited church last I encountered a sermon where we was told we are responsible for 35,000 people a day pouring into hell because of the people who have not even heard the name of Christ.  Of course then we can help by giving him money.

Holy smokes, Paul.  No pun intended.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Fang_Diachi

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2009, 06:44:38 AM »
When I visited church last I encountered a sermon where we was told we are responsible for 35,000 people a day pouring into hell because of the people who have not even heard the name of Christ.  Of course then we can help by giving him money.

Holy smokes, Paul.  No pun intended.

Oh yeah. Because when we give God money he will ease up on the sinners. That must be their outlook since they spend the money for themselves and not for helping the "lost sheep." Guess they think we have to bribe God. Weird that they would bribe him with things he already owns. :laughing7:

Offline AJ

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2009, 06:59:51 AM »
Why did God create people – to live in such a mess?


It seems ....like it's actually going to be the Almighty Himself........that owes all of humanity a great big apology.

I attended church services since a baby, - went to a Bible College, - taught Sunday school for years, - taught other bible classes, - and ministered weekly to inmates in a prison ministry..........
Yet I had wrestled with certain thoughts for over 50 years:

~  I didn't  ask to be born with such a sinful nature,…. and then I am expected to fix it somehow -  by returning to God, ….despite the fact that I had absolutely no choice in the so-called 'turning away' from Him in the first place.

 ~ I am very grateful that God saved me, …but according to the orthodox teaching – they say that God expects me to chose him or go to an eternal hell.

~ But I can't help but wonder, if He's omnipotent (all powerful) - then why couldn't He just zap away my sin nature, even before I was born…but not just me but everyone…and then, if no one WAS born into sin …. then no one would reject God or be sent to Hell, which is what it seems that God wants in the first place,

Now on top of that :
~ Why is it that God must remain invisible to mankind?
~ Why does He remain under a veil?

The established orthodox churches tell us, - that the 'lost'  (1.) must exercise their free-will, and  (2.) have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ during this lifetime, or (3.) else they will be damned for all eternity.

But, I am left with a question that none of these theologian can satisfactory answer.........and that is how can the masses (billions) of humanity have that relationship with the Savior - if they've never in their lifetime, heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

It's been estimated that between 90 and 120 billion people have lived or are living on this earth.......so then,
just how many of them, have actually heard the Gospel message?

How many of the 'lost' have had a good,........full and complete,.........clear gospel message presented unto them, about the purpose of Christ's coming, about the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ?
And remember now, we must include those who have lived from Adam until today.

And yet so many of our wonderful brother and sister in the Lord, want to eternally damn all these billions of 'lost' people to an eternal hell?…….Oh My!

I wonder how they would feel - if they had been born in a country that hates Jesus Christ?........and actually be one of those people that they so easily discards as rubbish.
================================================

O.K. dear friends, may I make this very personal?

~ Lets say, you had the unfortunate circumstances of being born in the country of Iran.
~ Lets say, you....like millions of your fellowmen, were constantly being told........ that the Christian God is utterly false.
~ Lets say, that all you heard...... all your life, from your mom and dad, plus from the leaders of Iran, that the religion of Christianity is the Great Satan.

~ Lets say, that you and millions,......probably billions of your fellow countrymen, never one time, hear of the true gospel of Jesus Christ........not even once in your entire lifetime.

Now,….. you are born in a lost condition,… RIGHT?
You live your entire life as a lost person,…. RIGHT?
Then die as lost,…. RIGHT?

So at some point in the future, you'll be resurrected to stand before the great judge of all the earth.
Well now,......... according to the orthodox Christian religion of many folks,......God will look in the book of life,..........and horror of horrors........your name is NOT there.

And now according to the teaching of many Christians...........God has no choice but to damn you,...... to SEND you off to a boiling hot cauldron lake of fire, to be tormented and tortured, FOREVER and EVER and EVER.

So now, dear friends........just how would you feel about that.......if that really did happen to you?
Again I ask....... just how would you feel about that.......if you really were damned for all eternity, through virtually no fault of your own?

================================================

Traditional Christian teaching tells us - that all unsaved people will burn in Hell, for eternity,…. not so much because they were wrong-doers (criminals) i.e. - we all are wrong doers,…. but because they were NOT right-doers (saints).

They say --- that these folks simply were not (smart enough) to make to make the wise choice of choosing Christ as their Savior before their death.

... i.e. …if people are not saved by the blood of the Lamb before their death,… they still have their old sin-nature and the wages of their sins is death – and then - that's it for them.

It's not that we were born perfect and then fell;….. but being a sinner - is our natural born state…. And because of that – they say, we  are evil people who deserve to be eternally punished…..all because we were born sinners.

To further complicate things:

...none of us were ever ASKED or given a CHOICE about the most important things in our life:

We weren't given a choice to be conceived in the first place......
We weren't given a choice about the time of our birth - or what sex we would be......
We weren't given a choice - about our physical characteristics.....
- about our genetic composition…..
~ eye color, ~ hair color,  ~ skin color, ~ body type, ~ level of intelligence…..
~ birth defects, ~ mental illness, or retardation ~ beauty/ugliness, ~ freckles, moles, and big nose with warts…..
 
We weren't given a choice as to having a body of flesh..... the angels don't have flesh .....
We weren't asked to live in the nation we were born into......
We weren't ever ask to have an - inherited nature of sin.......
We weren't asked to be condemned by sin......

We all begin our life as a Mutant……
We all begin as a deformed life being, that rebels against the Living Author of all creation…..
We all begin as detached from God, ...human-beings from a strange creation…..

We didn't ask to be bound onto disobedience......
We didn't ask to be made sinners......
We didn't ask to be under the penalty of death from Adam's sin.......

We didn't ask to be under Adam's penalty from the moment of our conception......
We didn't ask to be like sheep, constantly going astray.......
We didn't ask to be an enemy of God......

We didn't ask to be bound in stubbornness.......
We didn't ask to be tested by evil spirits.......
We didn't ask to be enticed with numerous temptations.......
We didn't ask for the many fiery trials to tests us……

We didn't ask to live under a curse of sickness and sin.......
We didn't ask for our Class level within society and wealth acquirement or lack thereof......
We didn't ask for a life of pain, sorrows, troubles and tears.......
We didn't ask for life on this earth at all.......


The BOTTOM LINE IS THIS:

No one was ever asked ahead of time - to be born, brought up and live in the kingdom of darkness and to be temped with an invisible and cunning enemy.......and then – for some reason, be expected to be held eternally responsible for - SOMEHOW trying to find an invisible Savior.
What makes mighty man NOW think - he can just  'free-will'  himself into God's Kingdom?

Frankly.......I think it is God,….. Himself who owes all mankind a great apology for planning such an environment as we have on this present earth.


And furthermore – let's consider the actual state of the 'lost'

-Every unregenerate person is a sinner (Rom. 3:23),
-He is dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1),
-He possessing a deceitful heart (Jer. 17:9),
-He is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23),
-unable to understand spiritual truth (1 Cor. 2:14),
-He cannot nor does not seek for God (Rom. 3:11),
-He is a slave to his own sin nature (Rom. 6:14-20),
-He is hostile in mind and deed to God (Col. 1:21),
-and he naturally and rightfully are objects of God's wrath (Eph. 2:3).

And lastly:
-Because of their sinful condition (Rom. 6:14-20),
-The unregenerate do not and cannot freely choose to believe the gospel (Rom.3:10-12; Rom. 6:14-20)
-And that they cannot come to God unless it has been granted to them from the Father (John 6:65)
- It is God alone who appoints a person to eternal life (Acts 13:48 )
- A God alone who grants that they believe (Phil.1:29).


So why then,…. is MANKIND being told by slick PREACHERS that the 'lost' will be held ACCOUNTABLE for their SINS,
- when we 'all' RECEIVED against our WILL, not by our CHOOSING,
an INHERITED SIN NATURE from the first MAN ADAM in the first place?

================================================

God creates us, by the subjection to frustration; causing us to live in a flawed, sinful, mortal, temporal, terrestrial body...
Then He gives us a huge lists of commandments – that are in direct contradiction to the evil nature He has created in us.

Can you imagine that?
God knowingly makes a creation of human beings that are extremely weak and frail….and then He gives a list of commandments - that we could not possibly keep?

And then:
Then He says through the prophet,
"No man will be justified BY OBSERVING THE LAW."

We were born to FAIL!
We were born losers!

But it was a NEEDED thing!

God uses the weak things of the world, to confound the mighty! He uses the filthy rags of our carnal self-righteousness, to buff, and polish the ark [Christ] of His TRUE righteousness! A righteousness that comes through Faith in God [Faith is the act of God enveloping us, and living IN us].

By comparing our actions [as men] to the glory of His perfect law; God shows definitively, once and for all, that He, and He alone is righteous, good, and Holy!

================================================

THEN AGAIN --- WE DIDN'T ASK FOR THIS EITHER

We didn't ask for God to manifest Himself in THE FLESH.......
We didn't ask for Christ to appear to DO AWAY with SIN.......
We didn't ask for God to LOVE US SO MUCH as to send his Son to DIE FOR US.......

We didn't ask for Jesus to TASTE DEATH for EVERY PERSON......
We didn't ask for Jesus to be A RANSOM for ALL men.......
We didn't ask for Jesus to be the SAVIOR of the world.......
We didn't ask for Jesus to be the PROPITIATION for the sins of the WHOLE world.......
We didn't ask for Jesus to be LIFTED UP ON THE CROSS, so that He will DRAW ALL men unto Himself.......
We didn't ask for God to will, that ALL are to BE SAVED.......

We didn't ask for Jesus to be the 'LAMB OF GOD' which takes away THE SIN of the world.......
We didn't ask for God to lay upon Christ the INIQUITY of us ALL.......
We didn't ask for Christ (The Good Shepherd)to SEARCH for the LOST until He finds it.......
We didn't ask that there would be a RESTORATION of ALL THINGS.......

We didn't ask that ALL things would be RECONCILED to God.......
We didn't ask that Christ would DESTROY the WORKS of the devil.......
We didn't ask for God to REMAIN FAITHFUL even when we are not.......
We didn't ask for Jesus to DEFEAT EVERY ENEMY.......

We didn't ask for Jesus to defeat and destroy DEATH, (which must includes everyone ultimately being
released from the Lake of Fire (i.e.,) the second death).......
We didn't ask for Jesus to RESTORE EVERYTHING.......
We didn't ask for Christ to DRAW ALL men unto Himself.......

We didn't ask for God to SHOW MERCY on ALL.......
We didn't ask for God to make EACH PERSON ALIVE, each in his own order.......
We didn't ask that SOMEDAY there will be NO MORE DEATH, nor SORROW, nor TEARS, nor MOURNING,
nor PAIN, for the old order of things will pass away, and Jesus Christ will make EVERYTHING NEW.......

But my, - we sure are GLAD that God planned and purposed this for ALL of HUMANITY!!!!!

================================================
 

Will the Potter utterly condemn the pots, that He is responsible for forming - just because they have impurities built into them?

Will He simply throw most of His own creations away on the rubbish heap as totally useless, or will He re-make them into worthier vessels?

Could a God of Love willingly choose to torture the majority of humankind for eternity with no purifying and constructive purpose in mind?

This might bear REPEATING:
It looks to me ....like it's actually going to be the Almighty Himself........that owes all of humanity a great big apology.

================================================

A while back, I was visiting my brother

He is a leader in the fellowship that he attends.
His church is strong on denouncing - those that die as 'lost', that they are damned forever and ever…….so I asked him…….about how he'd feel if our family - was born and grew up in Iran and we all died as lost.

I then asked him, - now, if mom and dad and all our brothers (me included) and sisters die as lost,....because we had had no opportunity to hear the 'gospel message' and become saved.....could you accept that?

He assured me that he would have to leave THAT in the hands of a merciful God.

So then I asked him, 
~ why can't he leave all the 'lost folks' that he so easily condemns -  in the hands of a merciful God?

~ why is it, that nearly every time I visit him, I have to listen to a hellfire sermon?

~ why does HE expect and hope to obtain mercy for himself, and our family from a merciful God …….yet himself and that unkind church he attends, will not extend that same kind of mercy - - -  to the billions that die in that very same condition?

He had no answer.



AJS – Jan.1.09
"Pretty soon, everybody will get what they deserve, which is ..."Salvation"..."Reconciliation"..."Restitution"..."Restoration"..."Immortality"... and "Incorruption" --- now ain't that the coolest thing?

Fang_Diachi

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2009, 07:07:54 AM »
Great post AJ. Allow me to add one more thing. =] You mentioned the people in Iran, imagine the babies who were killed due to abortion. They did not ask for it! They had no choice! No chance at all! So they would be born sinners, die sinners, and be subject to judgement WITHOUT THE SMALLEST CHANCE IN THE WORLD!!! Then they would be sent to the burning hell for no reason at all!!!

Hell... psh I used to fear it, now all I can do is laugh at how idiotic the thought is. :laughing7:

martincisneros

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2009, 11:39:46 AM »
Even if it were ever conclusively proven that in some place outside of time and space that we'd prenatally conspired together against our Lord, the record still stands:

All we like sheep have turned away.  Each of us has turned to his own way.  Yet the Lord has laid upon Him the iniquity of us all....He shall see the fruit of the travail of His soul and shall be satisfied.....the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand... (Isaiah 53)

Fang_Diachi

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2009, 09:14:09 PM »
All we like sheep have turned away.  Each of us has turned to his own way.  Yet the Lord has laid upon Him the iniquity of us all....He shall see the fruit of the travail of His soul and shall be satisfied.....the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand... (Isaiah 53)

I really needed to hear that verse. Thank you and may God's blessings be on you. =]

Offline Cardinal

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« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2009, 10:50:27 PM »
 :cloud9: My last day in organized religion (I only went to churches about 2 years all totaled for fellowship), was when the pastor spoke about the "rapture" endlessly, which I know from the Lord, is a misinterpreted doctrine. I asked, in my mind, not expecting an answer right then, "Oh, LORD! Where can I go to be fed?"

I heard, plain as day; "On the mountaintop!" 

It's in Isaiah. I got up and walked out and never went back. Had I asked Him about the endless torture, I probably would have heard something similar. So yes, I would have walked out, too. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline jabcat

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2009, 09:19:38 AM »
:cloud9: My last day in organized religion (I only went to churches about 2 years all totaled for fellowship), was when the pastor spoke about the "rapture" endlessly, which I know from the Lord, is a misinterpreted doctrine. I asked, in my mind, not expecting an answer right then, "Oh, LORD! Where can I go to be fed?"

I heard, plain as day; "On the mountaintop!" 

It's in Isaiah. I got up and walked out and never went back. Had I asked Him about the endless torture, I probably would have heard something similar. So yes, I would have walked out, too. Blessings....

Interesting to hear you'd walk out too, Card.  "On the mountaintop"....as in fellowshipping with the Lord?
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Cardinal

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2009, 04:12:02 PM »
 :cloud9: Yes, this is the scripture He gave me.

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

I won't listen to hell sermons either, although I do have a different take on hell than either them (ET'ers) or this board. Blessings....
 
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline B_T

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2009, 05:53:45 PM »
Hey, what happened???

Did you send that letter>

Offline jabcat

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2009, 08:33:17 PM »
Excellent Card.  B_T, I was afraid someone would ask me that...actually I haven't, I've either been lazy, too scared, or not feeling completely led to do it yet...maybe me or someone else needed to see it rather than him specifically  :dontknow:.  I may still send it, I probably should, even though I see him as pretty closed minded...we'll see...thanks for asking...I'll let you know...
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline B_T

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2009, 11:08:28 AM »
If u're too scared, I can do it for you  :bigGrin:

Offline CHB

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2009, 02:10:25 AM »
Quote from: Cardinal
I do have a different take on hell than either them (ET'ers) or this board.

Cardinal,

I would like to read your take on hell.

CHB

Offline Doc

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2009, 03:28:06 AM »
- We've earned an eternity in Hell?  We came to the end of the year and that's what's in our package?  Golly.  Can I get an exchange?  Is it still within the 7 day exchange policy?

- Isn't that why God created marriage?  Just pray that God actually gives me an ol' ball and chain if that's what I really deserve!  (And I can hear the ladies sarcastically saying "Isn't he a sweetheart?!!"  But women have to be able to put up with the men for the rest of their lives too, so it goes both ways.)

- Sooo....God's in the process of giving the devil his own kingdom too??  I thought only His Son could have one!  Golly.  Talk about no respecter of persons.

- Sooo....if God's in the process of giving the devil his own eternal kingdom as well, then how is Mormonism wrong when it says that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers?  Isn't that the forced scenario of your paradigm??

- You don't even know me.  How can you say that I deserve an eternity in Hell?  Maybe I deserve dinner at Chili's instead.

- I deserve an eternity in Hell?  Isn't that why God has me listening to your sermons?  Isn't that why I'm in your church??

- I thought that that was why God created traffic!

- Sooo, you're saying that I'd have more hope as an atheist...

- So that's how God treats His enemies after all of that stuff that Jesus preached?  HYPOCRITE!!

- So, if I love, fast, and pray for my enemies and God hates His, can I have the throne instead?

- So, you're saying that when we no longer have our bodies and we're who we really are without any of the pretenses that God is Who He really is without all of the pretenses of your religion?  And He's better than Hitler how??

- Isn't our choice of eternal heaven or eternal hell the equivalent of an irresponsible parent giving a todler a machine gun, knowing that kid's about to put it in his mouth??

- If heaven and hell are our choice, then didn't Christ die in vain?  I mean, I thought that heaven is supposed to be what He was choosing for all of us and now you're saying that God won't honor that sacrifice where everyone is concerned without their joint-participation in that sacrifice.  If that's the case, then how is Christianity better than 613 commandment Judaism where you have to sign on the bottomline for the package of God's blessings?

- Golly.  The Blood of Christ is only slightly better than the blood of bulls and goats. I mean it's still measureable. Doesn't have universal application except in this brief life time.  And how am I the one that's the blasphemer?

- So, if you're saying that ultimately my choice is more important than the Blood of Christ 'cause afterall, according to you, the Blood's powerless without my choice, - if this is really what you're saying - then how am I the idolater, blasphemer, and the one filled with self love?  You just claimed that I'm the god who is more powerful than Christ's Blood!  No, no, no, you can't take it back now.  Bow before me!

Amen, Martin.
 
Jabcat, I'd send it. Who knows, it may be the Holy Spirit's tool for getting this pastor to re-think things?
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline Pierac

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2009, 07:50:48 AM »
Sending the letter would serve no purpose, he would simply file it in file 13 (the trash can). Developing a relationship, and then sharing would have a greater impact, but do you really want to do that?   :laughing7:


Paul

Offline jabcat

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2009, 07:57:27 AM »
I really don't want to admit the truthful answer to that question... :mblush:.  I think it would be a challenge...maybe for me more than him.  Hmmmm...something to think about.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 11:01:11 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline B_T

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Re: "We've earned an eternity in hell". What would you do?
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2009, 06:12:32 PM »
oh, come on :) send it :)

By the way I'm very open these days. I even argue with my giflriend about hell and UR, I also put a message on my skype account: "~HELL IS NOT ETERNAL~" - big letters, which means shouting. Yeah. I wanna shout. HELL IS NOT ETERNAL... And I don't care what you think about it.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 06:16:34 PM by B_T »