Author Topic: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"  (Read 7300 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11244
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #100 on: July 06, 2008, 08:59:39 AM »
 :mshock:


Oh whew--he's talking about strangers--

"aliens"
H2114
זוּר
zûr
zoor
A primitive root; to turn aside (especially for lodging); hence to be a foreigner, strange, profane; specifically (active participle) to commit adultery: - (come from) another (man, place), fanner, go away, (e-) strange (-r, thing, woman).

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11244
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #101 on: July 06, 2008, 09:04:03 AM »
Quote
How convenient Molly, that you ignore what I have presented to you in challenge. 

Sorry, Craig.  I missed the challenge.  I'll go scour back and look for it.

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11244
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #102 on: July 06, 2008, 09:26:28 AM »

These things God did create, yet in the creation story, there is no mention of these things. We know they are real and they exist, therefore just because something is not mentioned in Scripture, does not mean it does not exist. On the same token, if something is not mentioned in Scripture, it does not nessesarily mean it does exist either.

So are aliens real or not?  :happygrin:

Not real.

Everything was created by him and for him--of which we are co-heirs with Christ.

Which neither enforces or denies the existance of extra-terrestial life. So what is your point?

Is this your challenge?

My point is that God has put man, as co-heirs with Christ, above everything, so I don't think he would leave out a detail so huge as aliens living on other planets in the universe.  I mean, it's not like forgetting to mention the armadillo or something.  :grin:  If there are aliens out there, He would have told us.  Instead he tells us he created the objects in the heavens for our purposes on earth.

Although, I think I'm finally understanding what Paul is saying--that there are men living across the universe, reading our Bible, on a planet called earth, and they are the aliens.  I don't know what I think about that, yet.  It kind of gives me doublevision.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 09:31:40 AM by Molly »

Offline studier

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 1805
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #103 on: July 06, 2008, 09:56:13 AM »
Let me first say, Molly,  :icon_queen: I totally understand your desire to be helpful and be a teacher to those who do not know what you know. I absolutely respect that. I know you think you are being helpful by providing the 'evidence' you think you are providing is helpful.

So do not take this wrongly, when I say this bluntly, your points have nothing to do with extra-terrestrial life and their existence or not. Can you not see your platform is classic "Non Sequitur" fallacies.

You commit the following, without even recognizing it.

* Affirming the Consequent: If A then B. B is true, so A is true.
* Denying the Antecedent: If A then B. A is false, so B is false.

ie: There is aliens mentioned in scripture, if aliens exist. If there are aliens exist, they would be mentioned in Scripture.
ie: There are no aliens in existence, if they are not mentioned in Scripture. There is no aliens mentioned in scripture, therefore aliens do not exist.

They are fallacies and do not prove anything. If aliens are not mentioned in Scripture, it means that aliens are not mentioned in Scripture, that is all. It does not deny aliens exist.

* In a Certain Respect and Simply: Extending assumed boundaries too far.

ie: We are co-heirs with Christ, therefore we are the only co-heirs with Christ.
ie: Life comes from Eve, therefore all life comes from Eve.

These are fallacies and do not prove anything. Whether or not we are co-heirs with Christ, and whether or not all human life comes from Eve, does not make us the only co-heirs with Christ, and that all life comes from Eve. It does not deny aliens exist.

* Missing the Point: Drawing the wrong conclusion.

Just about every other point you have made, has missed the point.

ie:
Quote
My point is that God has put man, as co-heirs with Christ, above everything, so I don't think he would leave out a detail so huge as aliens living on other planets in the universe.  I mean, it's not like forgetting to mention the armadillo or something.  grin  If there are aliens out there, He would have told us.  Instead he tells us he created the objects in the heavens for our purposes on earth.

Nowhere have you demonstrated this, you just made up a conclusion that doesn't exist from the facts that you mentioned. If we have dominion over all things, that means we have dominion even over the things in the heavens, which includes extra-terrestrial life. There is no reason to assume that these things must be mentioned especially since 'all things' encompasses, 'all things'.

Ironically leading me to the last of the fallacies that you use!

* Logical Inconsistency

ie:
Quote
4What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

 5For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

 6Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

--Psalm 8


What does 'all things' leave out?

This fallacy is when you present two contradicting arguments in order to prove your position.

First you say that these things would be mentioned, and then you say,"What does 'all things' leave out?".

Well which is it? When he said, "All things" how does this exclude extra-terrestrial life?

When will you realize, the truth can only be confronted by the truth, and that the continual usages of error, only portrays you are in error.So far, I have found 5 fallacies you have used to assert your confident position. If a position has fallacy, then the position is fallacious.

I ask you Molly, if the truth is surely what you pursue and want to teach then please think before you speak. If you think you know something, make sure you know it because when you don't it is very obvious. If you are being contradicted, and your errors are being pointed out, consider that you might be wrong and remain teachable! You bring up great points about what and who we are, but none of these things are relevant to 'aliens'. I find you constantly are trying to justify what you think we are to believe, rather than believing what is true.  :thumbdown:

All you can say is, you just don't believe there is extra-terrestrial life. Just like those who do, can say they do. There is no for sure yes or no, and it doesn't really matter either way.

Do not be discouraged, learn from your mistakes and build upon your successes.  :bgdance: :boyheart: :girlheart:
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 04:16:57 PM by SOtW »

joyful1

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #104 on: July 06, 2008, 02:54:15 PM »
 :sigh:

Offline studier

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 1805
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #105 on: July 06, 2008, 04:34:05 PM »
Sorry, I don't like seeing discussions that have no substance being used as proof for anything. Those who said that their might be extra-terrestrial life, agree it might be and perhaps even hope for, but know that there might not be.

laren

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #106 on: July 06, 2008, 05:01:21 PM »
delete 


Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11244
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #107 on: July 06, 2008, 05:02:26 PM »
whoa, Craig.  I'm not trying to *teach* anyone anything.  Nor am I seeking to *learn* anything from any man.

These discussions greatly bless me because the spirit of truth shows me wonderful things during them.  It's God I'm seeking, not the platonic rules of debate.

I've known instinctively for a long time that there are no aliens.  Now I know why--because of the position that Christ--who is pre-eminent--has put man into with respect to the universe.  If all things were created for him, then all things were also created for us.  The emotional impact of that is something you cannot buy or argue.  He showed me that yesterday.

 All the complicated intricacy of the honeybee and the flower is so that we can have honey on our toast.  Willie was being sarcastic, but it's true.  The horsehead nebula that he tucked away in an obscure corner of the universe waiting for us to discover it, so that when we did our jaws would drop at its beauty,-- he did that for us--to delight us and encourage us--to show us his glory--because he delights in us, too--because he loves us with a love we cannot fathom.  All day long he is telling us how much he loves us and how important we are to him if only we could hear it.




22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
 23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

 24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

 25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

 26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

 27When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

 28When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

 29When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

 30Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

 31Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

---Proverbs 8

Paul Hazelwood

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #108 on: July 06, 2008, 10:03:18 PM »
I've known instinctively for a long time that there are no aliens.  Now I know why--because of the position that Christ--who is pre-eminent--has put man into with respect to the universe.  If all things were created for him, then all things were also created for us.  The emotional impact of that is something you cannot buy or argue.  He showed me that yesterday.



All the wonders of the universe does not mean there cannot be another world somewhere else.   I can't tell you to not believe whatever you believe, but an emotional experience does not mean that you were shown the truth about anything.

I say that because I hear other people believe God told them something, they are purely convinced that God spoke to them and thats that. I have witnessed too many negative things from someone claiming a vision, a word from the Lord to try to convince others that the Lord spoke directly to them and that they need to be listened to because of that.

  I don't mean to demean you, but it is convenient that you state you know something about which there is little chance of it being conclusively proven one way or another.

I simply reject that the Lord spoke to you about anything concerning this topic.   Thats my opinion, hope you understand my skeptisism and it is nothing "personal".

I am only going by the experience of seeing people hurt others through these kind of bold claims when they are proven blatently wrong.


Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #109 on: July 06, 2008, 10:24:38 PM »
Quote
What do distant STARS have to do with our SEASONS?  ...nothing...
What do distant STARS have to do with our YEARS?  ...nothing...
What do distant STARS have to do with LIGHT upon earth? ...very little if any...
What do distant STARS have to do with SIGNS?  ...what SIGNS? ...nothing...

You clearly have never navigated on the ocean.

Good thing you didn't work for Christopher Columbus, but I am sure he thanked God for the stars.

Where does it say in the Bible that the STARS were placed there for NAVIGATION Molly? :pitiful:

The Bible doesn't say the Stars were placed there for NAVIGATION, so I guess they must not BE for that, -- eh Molly?

Just FYI, something you DO NOT KNOW:  ...I HAVE sailed across the Atlantic Ocean, have YOU done so, Molly?  :dontknow:  (I kinda doubt it!  :laughing7:)

About Navigation, ...I thought, according to YOU, the ONLY PURPOSE for the STARS was that they GIVE LIGHT upon the earth?  :dontknow: 

Where does it say that that this LIGHT shall be put to USE by men?  This is an ADDITIONAL PURPOSE... which the STARS provide... and has absolutely NOTHING to do with SEASONS, DAYS, YEARS, or SIGNS...

This additional PURPOSE which they have... to help travelers find their way eh?  :dontknow:  Is it BIBLICAL?  :dontknow:  ...Guess like '55 Chevys, GOD left this "purpose" out -- eh?

Regardless, ...the Stars which Christopher Columbus and other sailing adventurers use for navigation, are NOT the DISTANT STARS Molly...

What SIGNS are shown in the DISTANT  STARS Biblically Molly?  I will thank you for noting them... (if you even know of any) Btw, ...I am really curious as to what you KNOW about this aspect of the STARS...  :dontknow:

What do the STARS have to do with the SEASONS Molly? :dunno:

What do the STARS have to do with DAYS Molly?  :Chinscratch:

What do the STARS have to do with YEARS Molly?  :search:

On the BEST, CLEAREST night with the most UNINHIBTED visibility, the MOST STARS that can be SEEN and actually GIVE LIGHT on the earth, is EXTREMELY MINISCULE in comparison to the NUMBER of them which actually ARE IN the Heavens...  :dontknow:

Your words are continuously foolish, and you shall reap what you sow...

Unteacheable, obstinate, just as were the Religious of JESUS' day...   :sigh:

...willieH   :cloud9:

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #110 on: July 06, 2008, 10:29:09 PM »
willieH: Hi Molly...  :hithere:

Just so's yaknow...  :IloveU:  dear sister... in spite of your stubborness...  :mwink:

Where are those QUOTES of Craig and I, noting that ALIENS CONTROL UFO's?  :dontknow:

Are you having some trouble FINDING those "quotes", ...Molly?   :laughhand:

peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11244
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #111 on: July 06, 2008, 10:49:27 PM »
Willie's Bees


Did God do all of this for me?

Did he create the honey bee

To work the flowers in my yard,

To work the hours, long and hard,

So he could gather something sweet

To carry back to his own street,

And work some more when he gets there,

Inside his hive, enough to share

With other bees and bears and me--

To sweeten up my morning tea?

Did God do all of this for me?

Did he create the honey bee

So I could have that something sweet

Upon my bitter toast to eat?

Oh, yes he did!  It's true!  It's true!

He did it--every bit--for You!




" 'For I know the plans I have for you,' declares the Lord, 'plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.' " (Jeremiah 29:11)

« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 11:45:40 PM by Molly »

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #112 on: July 06, 2008, 10:51:02 PM »
willieH: Hi Molly...  :hithere:

All the complicated intricacy of the honeybee and the flower is so that we can have honey on our toast.  Willie was being sarcastic, but it's true. 

I was certainly NOT being sarcastic Molly, ...I was pointing out that A SURFACE OBSERVATION notes the blessing of the HONEY on the toast, and fails to recognize the deeper blessings of GOD! 

Which are contained along the way within the MANIFESTATION of that HONEY, as its processing is eventually completed, arriving upon the toast... and in conclusion, delights the taste buds of your mouth...  :bgdance:  Having blessed the Bee and the Flower, and the Beekeeper, and the Store which sold it, ...on its journey to YOU...

Which process, is condusive in ALL BIBLICAL observation... what appears to be said on the SURFACE, always has DEEPER meaning...

Seeking the DEEPER MEANING without CHANGING what IS WRITTEN on the SURFACE... IS where the TRUTH is found...

That GOD set the STARS in the heavens to "give light upon the earth" is the BEGINNING or SURFACE of the PURPOSE, which YOU, have already shown to be DEEPER than you first percieved, by noting that this STARLIGHT is useful in NAVIGATION, even though NAVIGATION is NOT MENTIONED as their PURPOSE...  :dontknow:

If this is so, and it IS... then the STARS can have MUCH DEEPER PURPOSE, than you (or I) might even be able to imagine... such as being set in the heavens to BLESS other life which GOD has created elsewhere...  :dontknow:

peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:

Paul Hazelwood

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #113 on: July 06, 2008, 11:14:58 PM »

Molly,

I agree 100% that the honey bee is a magnificent creature that was created and we are blessed by it in many ways.   Do you have a nice poem about the wasp to give someone after a sting? 

I believe every creature has a purpose, even if I am annoyed by flies during a picnic.

Another world may have unique creatures on it too, created on that world and its inhabitants that are like us would be reading the scriptures seeing they have dominion over the creatures on that world.   What we have translated to Earth may be translated from "Gods Word" to whatever they call their world.   The original "Gods Word" is not written on paper.   

I think the difficulty someone has in this issue is overcoming the images that fear has instilled into the world concerning extraterrestrials.  Fear that is based on only the unknown and our inherant nature to see the worst about everything.


I am sorry if it does not make you feel as special to think about God loving people on another world.  But the fact remains that Gods Love will one day cause us to understand how that doesn't matter.


Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #114 on: July 06, 2008, 11:20:01 PM »
willieH: Hi Molly... :hithere:

Nice poem!  :happygrin:

Willie's Bees


Did God do all of this for me?

Did he create the honey bee

To work long hours, in my yard,

To work the flowers, long and hard,

So he could gather something sweet

To carry back to his own street,

And work some more when he gets there,

Inside his hive, enough to share

With other bees and bears and me--

To sweeten up my morning tea?

Did God do all of this for me?

Did he create the honey bee

So I could have that something sweet

Upon my bitter toast to eat?

Oh, yes he did!  It's true!  It's true!

He did it--every bit--for You!

Ah yes, ...HE did it for me IN CONCLUSION, ...but as I previously noted, the deeper observation shows that HE also, DID it for the FLOWER, and HE DID it for the BEE, and HE DID it for the BEEKEEPER, and HE DID IT for the STORE PROPRIETOR, as it made its WAY to ME... Blessing not only my Toast, but...

NATURE:HeartThrob: as the BEE and FLOWER interacted... and have prospered because of it... creating FELLOWSHIP between the FLOWER and the BEE...  :LoveH1:

THE BEEKEEPER:HeartThrob: as he helps the BEE and protects it while finding prosperity in his work... creating FELLOWSHIP between the BEEKEEPER and the BEE...   :LoveH1:

THE STORE PROPRIETOR:HeartThrob: as he WORKS for his living finding prosperity, while providing a service which I NEED...  creating FELLOWSHIP between the STORE PROPRIETOR and ME...   :LoveH1:



and then finally, in conclusion...


ME...  :HeartThrob: which finds prosperity in the blessing of the HONEY which garnishes my toast which norishes and prospers my body... creating FELLOWSHIP between ME and MY BODY...  :LoveH1:

 :mfriends:  Thanks for the poem Molly...  :HeartThrob:

peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #115 on: July 07, 2008, 12:03:03 AM »
This is talking about man, not 'any world anywhere.'




Explain why intelligent life on another world would not be man?



Where does the Bible say there is a man living on some other planet in the universe?

where does the Bible say the opposite... that there is NOT a man living on some other planet in the Universe?

peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11244
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #116 on: July 07, 2008, 03:56:39 AM »
"Navigating by the stars
In the early 1970s members of the Polynesian Voyaging Society in Hawaii searched for Polynesians who remembered traditional navigation techniques. There were none, but they eventually tracked down Mau Piailug from the island of Satawal in Micronesia, who could navigate the open ocean without instruments. He guided the Hōkūle'a from Hawaii to Tahiti and back using a star compass, shown here. Mau Piailug shared his knowledge with Nainoa Thompson, who became the first Polynesian in centuries to use celestial navigation on long distance ocean voyaging when he repeated the journey in the same vessel in 1980.



The 360° horizon around the canoe was divided up into different sectors named 'houses' and these were marked on canoe railings. Navigators would know that the arcs of the sun and other stars cross the sky at different heights depending on the time of year. This canoe is travelling due north at the spring equinox, when the sun rises due east and sets due west. At night the rising and setting of stars were used to align the canoe in a direction of travel. For example, when Star A set, Star B was used, and so on through the night until the earth's own star, the sun, rose. The sun was used at dawn and dusk.
"




14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

[for] "signs"


H226
אות
'ôth
oth
Probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.: - mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.




« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 03:58:13 AM by Molly »

joyful1

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #117 on: July 07, 2008, 04:19:38 AM »
Hi Molly!
That was a fascinating story! I vaguely remember something about that voyage....the tool described looked like a Celtic cross in one way, didn't it? It's not hard to see how men in past centuries were actually MORE intelligent that we are today. They didn't NEED computers, because they could carry so much information in the heads.....that's not to say that in every time period and in EVERY culture, there were ALWAYS those who were unable to or chose not to use their intelligence to its highest potential. Here is one fine and easy example.....try finding George Washington's Diary on line.....now read one page without looking at a dictionary. It's not that the English was that different, its simply that he was THAT much more proficient with the language and maintained a much larger vocabulary than the average human today. Did you know that Benjamin Franklin was able to write in 2 different languages with each of his hands....AT THE SAME TIME?? He wasn't an anomaly in society, there were many men trained in this method during the 17th and 18th centuries. I'm always amazed at the astonishing discoveries made on a fairly regular basis showing that the gene pool is indeed winding down, not UP!
Joyce :)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 04:21:47 AM by joyful1 »

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11244
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #118 on: July 07, 2008, 04:25:58 AM »
1After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem 2and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."

 3When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. 4When he had called together all the people's chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Christ[c] was to be born. 5"In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:
 6" 'But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
      are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
   for out of you will come a ruler
      who will be the shepherd of my people Israel.'"

 7Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. 8He sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and make a careful search for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him."

 9After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen in the east went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. 10When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. 11On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh. 12And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.


--Matthew 2
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 04:28:21 AM by Molly »

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11244
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #119 on: July 07, 2008, 04:40:04 AM »
Hi Joyce, Yes it's just amazing.  It's like a compass which orients the entire night sky to your boat.  They knew all the different constellations and their placement at different times of the year. I can't imagine crossing the Pacific at night in a canoe, much less from one such distant island to another.  You can't afford to miss.
 
Yes, they knew a lot more than we do because they had to.  Probably had more fun, too. The stars in the middle of the ocean are spectacular.

PS Hawaii to Tahiti is 2200 nautical miles. :mshock:
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 04:57:51 AM by Molly »

Paul Hazelwood

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #120 on: July 07, 2008, 05:43:40 AM »
Did you know that Benjamin Franklin was able to write in 2 different languages with each of his hands



You should check out the ripleys believe it or not story about the person who can write in several languages with both hands and both feet at the same time.

Paul Hazelwood

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #121 on: July 07, 2008, 06:07:46 AM »

Yes, they knew a lot more than we do because they had to.  Probably had more fun, too. The stars in the middle of the ocean are spectacular.


Hey is this thread being hijacked?  :happy3:   I wonder what stars those on another world use for Navigation?  I wonder what constellation our sun (which is a star) is a part of on another world?  I wonder, if another world may detect our earth at such a distance they can only speculate about life, thinking hey there might be water there.

I like to wonder,  I wonder what a believer on another world, a brother across the galaxy, might say for their children in a prayer.   And if one day it is proven that we are it,  so be it.  Until then, the bibles open language, metaphoric and intepretive nature allows the possibility.  Even if they happen to have bug eyes, and green skin, God loves them too.

It is a shame that people are in such fear.



As far as having more fun.....
 

People forget (or were never taught) that travel on the sea in those days was very dangerous and there were many tragic deaths.  Many people got scurvy among other things till they learned they needed fruit with vitamin C.  Not quite sure if they knew it was vitamin C specifically or not.

We probably won't figure out 100% for sure how the pyramids were built because there is no culture today enslaving millions of people to build them anymore.


I suppose it all looks cute in the movies.


Offline reFORMer

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 1943
  • Gender: Male
  • Psalm 133
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #122 on: July 07, 2008, 01:43:10 PM »
C. S. Lewis speculated that one reason we at this time wouldn't know about other races of intelligent beings that lived out among the stars, even if some of them knew about us, could be because our planet is quarantined because of sin.  Until that is cleaned up we are off limits.  This idea is intimated in one of the titles from his science fiction trilogy, Out of the Silent Planet.

The land promise to Abraham and his seed, which is Christ, is understood to mean enjoy inheriting the cosmos (Rom 4:13), not just a fingernail clipping's worth of sand in the Sinai peninsula, or even this planet (which reveals part of the robbery of Racial Dispensationalism's deception.)  Mankind is over the works of God's hands; but, until he inherits the earth of his own body in resurrection at the time appointed of the Father he is not of age and can only exercise an earnest of his authority.

What would there be for us in a Universe of only raw materials?  How long can we be satisfied to only eat and defecate, play and learn, procreate and create?  Not all of these functions are going to remain in the humanity God is bringing forth in the recreation in Christ.  One of the most enduring functions indicated in Scripture is whatever is done by those described as of The Melchizedek Order Priesthood.  So much so that what is written says, "...having neither beginning of days nor consummation (end) of life, yet picturing the Son of God, is remaining a priest into finality." (Heb 7:3)  This seems clearly to refer to immutable Divine nature.  Priests are go-betweens, bringing something to God and bringing God to something.  Intercessors, they define boundaries.  This indicates judgment; hence, rule.  Priests are not so unto themselves.  Dominion is not over one another.  This reveals an obvious waywardness of religious people all around us today.  There is one High Priest, Jesus, and all of His people -- His disciples, which presupposes His presence by whom to be disciplined -- all of us are priests.  Right now, that is to the rest of humanity.  What I am pointing to, however, is that the permanence of this function demands there be others, somewhere, somehow.

Adamic humanity is made of "the dust of the earth" and what dust is in Hebrew is particulates, minute pieces of friable material, many tiny bits is of what we are composed.  What we term elements or atoms might apply.  Even your consciousness is of many little parts.  That it is of the earth makes it Adamic.  That earth or land is everywhere in the material cosmos.  Excepting super dense stars, it is more substantial than other forms of matter that comprise large objects like planets.  Could there also be races specially adapted to gas giants?  Would six winged Seraphim live there before they become immortal?  Another race in liquid?  What really of fire?  Some have speculated intelligences there in the midst of the massive electrical activities.  Whatever is, "The anointed cherub that covereth" it it written that it "...hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." (Ezek 28:14)  Our sun is only liquid fire and cold by comparison.Stars were equated with gods by the ancients.  Was this entirely darkened religious minds?  Joseph's dream indicated that stars were elders of Israel.  God's talk with Abraham indicates his seed would be of three sorts.  One was stars.  This indicates Sons of God.  We are the light of the world.  (Will some light please penetrate the minds of US congressmen!  Maybe the word "drill" would stimulate some mental associations?)

We already are beginning to create "alien" or other life forms.  Some scientists have thought biological life might serve as a sort of short lived bridge to the true and lasting intelligences of the Universe, descendants of what we now call computers.  Are these related to the beasts full of eyes in the midst of and round about the throne that unceasingly cry, "holy?" (Rev 4:6)  We are starting to use DNA.  Where will that road ultimately lead?  Surely if there are no "aliens" yet there are going to be because we will make them.  What better way to populate with worshiping hosts environments that we are not able to survive in our present form?


---James Rohde
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 02:15:23 PM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11244
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #123 on: July 07, 2008, 03:24:46 PM »
wow! :mshock:

It does say 'cosmos.' :mshock:

I never thought to think of that in terms of the universe before.


13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world [KOSMOS], was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

--Rom 4:13

"world"

G2889
κόσμος
kosmos
kos'-mos
Probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.



Main Entry: cos·mos
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'käz-m&s, 1 & 2 also -"mOs, -"mäs
Etymology: Greek kosmos
1 a (1) : an orderly harmonious systematic universe -- 2 : a complex orderly self-inclusive system



I've always wondered why God took Abraham out and showed him the stars.  And, where would all those people come from?  Are we at the beginning of the world rather than the end?



5And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

 6And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.


--Genesis 14




Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11244
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #124 on: July 07, 2008, 04:37:01 PM »
yikes.  This is just incredible.



7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world [AION] unto our glory:

 8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

 9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.


--1Cor 2