"Origins, Angels and Aliens"

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Molly... 

Volunteering your friends HEARSAY as VALID proof... please...   

There are cartoon shows about spaceships Molly... they provide as much PROOF as does your friends ALLEGED  experience...

You don't have to take my word for it.  Go on the internet and watch them.  Watch the group of people, from radar controllers to pilots to military, give their testimony about them.

Look at the crop circles which they are becoming so proficient at drawing in the wheat fields.

You have no idea who you are discussing this matter with... I am an ALIEN and SCIENCE FICTION NUT!

I have written 3 Science fiction novels...

And have seen just about EVERY documentary about UFO's, Crop Circles, and most ALL movies made on the subject since the 50's...

I am NOT completely convinced that EXTRATERRESTRIALS exist... there is phenomenon that is taking place which is 90% explainable... But when you are speaking 10% of cases world-wide that are UNEXPLAINABLE... it piles 10 of every hundred that go UNEXPLAINED! 

Over years there are THOUSANDS of UNEXPLAINED phenomenon, not only UFO, but USO (unidentified submerged objects), and Crop Circles... You see some show that some hick claims to be the perpertrator of crop circles, and then believe him or others like him to be responsible for ALL of them... thousands  world-wide, even done in the ice and snow... in places inaccessable... please...

You are welcome to remain gullible if you choose... that is your right...

You obviously know nothing of this field... as the Crop circle phenomenon has been photographed IN progress, where NO PERSONS were present, yet circles appeared...

Hoaxes abound, yes... but there is phenomenon occuring which is NOT hoaxed and remains UNEXPLAINED.

Or use the common sense that God gave you to realize that we have really advanced much further in 100 years of flight than the put-put jet engine.  We are talking here about the human race that has split the atom and the gene in the same time period.

And just think Molly... what if GOD has created beings which have NOT experienced our destructive pathway... as did man in the days of NOAH, which wasted time, and progress, and WAR which always slows down the progress of POSITIVE research...

They may have arrived at the point we are at a THOUSAND YEARS ago... think of what Man will be doing technologically speaking in 1000 years from today... you do not even have the capability of understanding such advancement...

You talk about using common sense, and you seldom do this yourself... spouting UNBIBLICAL things, then requiring others to support UNBIBLICAL things... showing NO common sense at all...

You have no idea who I am or what I know...

Do you know anything of what is being researched in computer labs as we speak Molly?  There is activity that would scare all of us...

I had a conversation with a guy to whom I was selling a DVD player when it first came out, say 10yrs ago... He was working in a lab, and laughed at my "new technology" sale... noting that this technology I was selling as NEW, was already 10yrs old! 

He was also considering a different line of work, because the projects they are working on in secret are bordering on MAGIC... defying Physical principles...

No Molly, if you think that what you see is current... you are as old in your thinking as were those in the 50's...

If others in the Universe have not traveled a destructive pathway, they could perform feats that we would watch with our eyes, and promptly NOT BELIEVE what we just observed... 

They exist alright.

Yeah Molly... they probably DO exist, ...and with the BIBLE, let's face it, ...YOU cannot PROVE they DO NOT...   

Btw ...I'm still waiting for you to quote my "words" or Craig's for that matter, ...about ALIENS controlling anything! 

peaCe...
...willieH 

[Molly]

No Molly, if you think that what you see is current... you are as old in your thinking as were those in the 50's...

Now you are saying exactly what I just said--that there is technology out there that is being kept secret from us--

Let's take a look at that first, before we believe in any aliens.  Just because something is unexplained to you, does not mean that there isn't some man somewhere who invented it and understands it completely.


Matthew 10:26
Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

[Paul Hazelwood]

He didn't create the lights in the heavens as homes for little green men.

Molly,  you may indeed be right about this, because your view of "aliens" is based upon what people think they will look like or be like.

God created everything,  and certainly, he did not create everything for the "IMAGE" of creatures that come out of our imagination through fear.


However,  if indeed one day we find some little green bretheren out there,   God loves them just as much and his Gift of life will be for them too.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Now you are saying exactly what I just said--that there is technology out there that is being kept secret from us--

Let's take a look at that first, before we believe in any aliens.  Just because something is unexplained to you, does not mean that there isn't some man somewhere who invented it and understands it completely.


Matthew 10:26
Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

There are speculations that the technological explosion in the past 30 years was fueled by alien technology that was found from some that crash landed here.

I personally love science fiction,  and like Willie,  I cannot say for sure one way or another.    ALL I am saying is that your proof from the bible is not conclusive proof.   It is evidence just like any other theory.

But when you can show a verse that says, "Aliens do not exist" as you expect us to show a verse that says "Aliens do exists" then the discussion will seem a bit more rational from your end of it.   So do not expect others to produce evidence you yourself cannot produce.

As it stands now,  the only evidence that is conclusive is that the bible cannot be used to prove or disprove Aliens, only that the bibles words are open enough to extend GODS love and purpose to any extreme of the universe whatever it may be.

[Molly]

However,  if indeed one day we find some little green bretheren out there,   God loves them just as much and his Gift of life will be for them too.

I love my dog but he's not my brethren.

If God has put water on some planet out there, it is so we will have a watering hole when we get there.

Everything that Christ has shown us in the Bible dictates that he is the highest being in the universe and he is my brethren.

It's hard to believe--it sounds so remarkable--but we are it--this whole thing was created for us.

Yet, the sooner we realize that, the better.

There is nothing above us in the universe but God, and no equal but Christ.

Hebrews 2:11
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

[Molly]

There are speculations that the technological explosion in the past 30 years was fueled by alien technology that was found from some that crash landed here.

There isn't any technological explosion that is particular to the last thirty years.  I know about computers that were counting on their fingers to a million 30 years ago before they executed an instruction--to slow them down.  Why slow them down, you say?  Because the technology was being hidden from the general public.  My friend saw the UFO 40 years ago.  Tesla invented wireless, free electricity over 100 years ago.

No aliens around,--just greedy, evil men.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I love my dog but he's not my brethren.

I did not say your dog was your bretheren.

If God has put water on some planet out there, it is so we will have a watering hole when we get there.

Discovering water on a planet is not what we are talking about.

Everything that Christ has shown us in the Bible dictates that he is the highest being in the universe and he is my brethren.

No one in this thread is saying an alien life form from another planet would question Christ's place in the kingdom.

It's hard to believe--it sounds so remarkable--but we are it--this whole thing was created for us.

Yet, the sooner we realize that, the better.

There is nothing above us in the universe but God, and no equal but Christ.

Again, you try to prove that with words from scripture that are not there,  furthermore you expect people to produce verses with detail you yourself have not.

Hebrews 2:11
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Great verse and intelligent life on another planet would be sanctified as well.

I can easily believe either way.  It would not be shocking if we were the only ones,  it would be equally reasonable if there were others.  Either way it cannot be "proven" with the bible.

[Paul Hazelwood]

There are speculations that the technological explosion in the past 30 years was fueled by alien technology that was found from some that crash landed here.

There isn't any technological explosion that is particular to the last thirty years.  I know about computers that were counting on their fingers to a million 30 years ago before they executed an instruction--to slow them down.  Why slow them down, you say?  Because the technology was being hidden from the general public.  My friend saw the UFO 40 years ago.  Tesla invented wireless, free electricity over 100 years ago.

No aliens around,--just greedy, evil men.

Not all of it is based on that.  For the most part,  a lot of technological advances are delayed due to government regulations concerning safety.

There are probably many many cool things that if you received them in your home untested and unregulated would probably end up killing or maiming you, others,  or burning down your home.   That happens enough even with testing.

What I am saying about the advances is in things at the atomic level of discovery, DNA,  all sort of intriguing things.  I am not saying I believe that, I am just saying that people come up with all kinds of ideas about aliens and those ideas instill fear.

Indirectly there is fear and doubt instilled into the us about the government, black helicopters and secret agents watching our every move, just waiting to pounce on you.   Aliens are a great tool that is used to do that.  Christians talk a big talk about faith and they show so much fear it is hard to believe they have any faith at all.   But what faith will Jesus find on earth when he returns?  We can look around and see for ourselves.

So objections about aliens as you have alluded to with comments such as "bug eyes" and "little green men" are simply a pattern of indoctrination of mans image, not any bases in reality one way or another.

Lots of people see UFO's.    Anything you see flying that you cannot identify is an "Unidentified Flying Object"  it has nothing to do with extraterrestrials,  because if you could prove it was an extraterrestrial craft it would not be unidentified any longer.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Molly...

That some might consider that other beings live outside the earth, does not challenge that destiny whatsoever...

It challenges what God tells us in Genesis, that he created the lights in heaven for us-- to give light on the earth in the day and in the night, for signs and seasons, for days, months, and years.

It certainly DOES NOT... 

What about Stars which are SO DISTANT that not only does their light NOT REACH the earth, and not only does it NOT enter into SIGNS or SEASONS, but it cannot even be photographed except by HIGH POWERED photographic telescopes...

The Scripture does NOT say that the Stars giving light upon the earth, is the sole reason that GOD's PURPOSES for the Stars of the Heavens...

That it does mention the LIGHT which (SOME of) the stars give, is certainly part of their PURPOSE, certainly not ALL...

The Word does not say that is ALL the stars are for, nor does it say that ALL the stars do this, it just states that He set LIGHTS in the Heavens to show light upon the earth, and for signs and for seasons and years... this job is mainly the job of the SUN and MOON, not the distant Stars...

Let me quote the verses:

Gen 1:14-17

14  And GOD said, let there be LIGHTS in the firmament of the heaven to divide DAY from the NIGHT and let them be for SIGNS and for SEASONS, and for DAYS and FOR years...   Distant Stars have nothing to do with this... "them" be the Sun and MOON, which are involved in ALL these processes...

15  And let THEM be for LIGHTS in the firmament of the heaven to give LIGHT upon the earth and it was so... The SUN and MOON give LIGHT upon the earth...

16  And GOD made TWO great LIGHTS; the greater light to rule the DAY and the lesser light to rule the NIGHT:  He made the STARS also...  It is the SUN and MOON bring light in day and in night... the STARS are merely an "also" factor...

17  And GOD set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth.  This (in my observation) is still concerned with the SUN and MOON and their divinely assigned duties to give LIGHT upon the earth... this was not the primary duty of the STARS...


The SUN and MOON are the LIGHTS which are involved with giving LIGHT upon the earth, and that which is for SIGNS (Joel 2:31) and for SEASONS - winter, spring, summer, fall... and for YEARS one revolution of the earth around the SUN is the determination of a YEAR...

What do distant STARS have to do with our SEASONS?  ...nothing...
What do distant STARS have to do with our YEARS?  ...nothing...
What do distant STARS have to do with LIGHT upon earth? ...very little if any...
What do distant STARS have to do with SIGNS?  ...what SIGNS? ...nothing...

What does the Sun have to do with our SEASONS? ...everything...
What does the Sun have to do with our YEARS? ...they are determined BY IT...
What does the Sun have to do with LIGHT upon the earth? ...everything...
What does the Sun have to do with SIGNS?  ...several are noted in the OT...

What does the Moon have to do with our SEASONS? ...it contributes...
What does the Moon have to do with our YEARS? ...monthly cycle is determined by it...
What does the Moon have to do with LIGHT upon the earth? ...a LOT at NIGHT...
What does the Moon have to do with SIGNS? ...it is mentioned in the OT with such...

So in the end... the SUN and MOON are that which have to do with the earth... MOST of the Stars have nothing to do with the earth Molly...    believe what you will...

For MOST of the STARS which EXIST in the Heavens, CANNOT even be SEEN from earth... let alone broadcast light upon it... and those Stars which cannot be seen, DO NOT serve as SIGNS nor, are they part of any SEASONAL determinations on earth...

You are really in a tunnel Molly... and have conveniently placed GOD in a tidy little box... which box contains mostly UNBIBLICAL, and UNPROVEN religious observances...

He didn't create the lights in the heavens as homes for little green men.

No one has mentioned "little green men" or "20 foot cockroaches" but YOU Molly... so the ridiculous portion of this discussion is ALL YOURS... 

peaCe...
...willieH 

[Molly]

1O LORD, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

 2Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

 3When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

 4What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

 5For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

 6Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

--Psalm 8


13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

--Hebrews 1

[Paul Hazelwood]

1O LORD, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

Yes, his name is excellent in ALL the earth,  but it does not say "only" the earth.  And again, earth is not a strict translation, earth is but one translation because we are on earth.


The rest could apply to any culture, any world, anywhere.

[Molly]

What do distant STARS have to do with our SEASONS?  ...nothing...
What do distant STARS have to do with our YEARS?  ...nothing...
What do distant STARS have to do with LIGHT upon earth? ...very little if any...
What do distant STARS have to do with SIGNS?  ...what SIGNS? ...nothing...

You clearly have never navigated on the ocean.

Good thing you didn't work for Christopher Columbus, but I am sure he thanked God for the stars.

[Paul Hazelwood]

What do distant STARS have to do with our SEASONS?  ...nothing...
What do distant STARS have to do with our YEARS?  ...nothing...
What do distant STARS have to do with LIGHT upon earth? ...very little if any...
What do distant STARS have to do with SIGNS?  ...what SIGNS? ...nothing...

You clearly have never navigated on the ocean.

Good thing you didn't work for Christopher Columbus, but I am sure he thanked God for the stars.

What about the stars Columbus could not see?

[Molly]

1O LORD, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

Yes, his name is excellent in ALL the earth,  but it does not say "only" the earth.  And again, earth is not a strict translation, earth is but one translation because we are on earth.


The rest could apply to any culture, any world, anywhere.

This is talking about man, not 'any world anywhere.'


4What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

 5For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

 6Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

--Psalm 8


What does 'all things' leave out?

[Paul Hazelwood]

This is talking about man, not 'any world anywhere.'

Explain why intelligent life on another world would not be man?

[Paul Hazelwood]

What does 'all things' leave out?

Exactly,  life on another world would indeed be part of all things.

[Molly]

What do distant STARS have to do with our SEASONS?  ...nothing...
What do distant STARS have to do with our YEARS?  ...nothing...
What do distant STARS have to do with LIGHT upon earth? ...very little if any...
What do distant STARS have to do with SIGNS?  ...what SIGNS? ...nothing...

You clearly have never navigated on the ocean.

Good thing you didn't work for Christopher Columbus, but I am sure he thanked God for the stars.

What about the stars Columbus could not see?

He didn't need them to navigate.

But, when God wishes us to see them, we will, and we have--we have peered into the beginning of the universe by now.

[Molly]

This is talking about man, not 'any world anywhere.'

Explain why intelligent life on another world would not be man?

Where does the Bible say there is a man living on some other planet in the universe?

[Paul Hazelwood]

This is talking about man, not 'any world anywhere.'

Explain why intelligent life on another world would not be man?

Where does the Bible say there is a man living on some other planet in the universe?

Where does it say there is not? 

[Molly]

This is talking about man, not 'any world anywhere.'

Explain why intelligent life on another world would not be man?

Where does the Bible say there is a man living on some other planet in the universe?

Where does it say there is not? 

Ok. I could go for that.

Is he single?

[Paul Hazelwood]

This is talking about man, not 'any world anywhere.'

Explain why intelligent life on another world would not be man?

Where does the Bible say there is a man living on some other planet in the universe?

Where does it say there is not? 

Ok. I could go for that.

Is he single?

They are likely not all married, there is still hope.

[Molly]

You could write The Single Woman's Guide to the Universe.

Sure to be a best seller.

[studier]

How convenient Molly, that you ignore what I have presented to you in challenge. 

In my old days, I would be persistent until there was nothing more to be persistent about; so unless you change the direction of your posts, this is my last post to you concerning this topic. 

[Paul Hazelwood]

You could write The Single Woman's Guide to the Universe.

Sure to be a best seller.

Hey , now we are on to something.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I died out laughing when I found this verse.


Psalms 54:3 "For aliens, they rise against me, And terrifiers, they seek my soul; They do not set Elohim in front of them. { Interlude }


Maybe we should be afraid after all.