Author Topic: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"  (Read 8507 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2008, 11:10:42 PM »
willieH:  Hi Molly... :hithere:

well, I wait for you to show me the Bible verses that say there is life on other planets, Willie.

Otherwise, you are just Arthur [C.] Clark[e] without the millions.

You will be WAITING on me?   :laugh:  ...Now THAT's a twist...  :pointlaugh:

I don't have to show Bible verses that note existence in order for them to BE, Molly!

What Bible verse notes the existence of the Ford Motor Company?  Or Alex Rodriguez of the New York Yankees?

What Bible verse notes the existence of PLASTIC?  Or of PLYWOOD?

What Bible verse notes the existence of GEORGE BUSH? Or TOM CRUISE?

Shall we conclude that none of the ABOVE (in blue) exist, because these are not mentioned in the Bible Molly?  :wacko2:

As I said, you are not much of a challenge... and until YOU ACCEPT a CHALLENGE yourself, ...you are thereby DISQUALIFIED to hand them out to others...  :thumbdown:

peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 12:49:56 AM by willieH »

joyful1

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2008, 12:13:58 AM »
Hey you guys....this is the second time today that I've had to "re-post" my reply because it shows up and then it's gone? Weird! :mshock:

For the new student or believer:

The Strong's Concordance is keyed to the King James Version of the Bible....so you are beginning with a translation that has some minor and some major translation problems with it, depending on which "expert" you listen to.

If you want to get a second opinion on a particular verse or word, go with a different translation to begin with, then look up your Hebrew and Greek words. But you'll need another tool, like e-sword.
You can download a free version here: http://www.e-sword.net/

Getting back to the garden....sounds like a song from the '60's  :laughing7: .... okay...getting back to the garden and EVE....

Gen 3:20 (YLT) Young's Literal Translation:
And the man calleth his wife's name Eve: for she hath been mother of all living.

Genesis 3:20 (Darby Translation)
And Man called his wife's name Eve; because she is the mother of all living.

Gen 3:20 (Holman Christian Standard)
Adam named his wife Eve [a] because she was the mother of all the living.

Any comments?

Now, before I leave....I have 2 questions for the forum here:
1-- does anyone have an understanding of why there are multiple accounts of the creation in Genesis
2-- can "stars"  sometimes be called "angels" in scripture/ and is the opposite true?

Okay..that's it for me for today.......where's the coffee pot Willie? Willie! Did you TAKE the coffee pot ?? :laughing7:

Joyce :)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 02:59:19 AM by joyful1 »

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2008, 12:45:26 AM »
willieH: Hi Joyce!  :hithere:

I got the coffee!  I got the coffee!  :coffee:

Hi guys! :bigGrin:

Genesis 3:20 (Young's Literal Translation)

 20And the man calleth his wife's name Eve: for she hath been mother of all living.

Strong's Concordance is keyed to the King James Bible Anything that you look up in Strong's is from the KJV TRANSLATION of the original Hebrew and Greek.

I'd like to ask everyone here 2 questions:
1-- what do "stars" represent in Genesis, spiritually speaking
2-- why does God give us various accounts/retelling? of the creation in Scripture?

Joyce :)

For now I'll leave #1 alone and let others offer their insights... but #2 is one which I have found quite intriguing, and have a comment or two about it...

Many have noted DISCREPANCIES between the Creation "account" in Genesis 1:1-31 - Genesis 2:1-3... as opposed to the "account" given following it, in Genesis 2...

As for me, ...I question them both being "accounts" or "reports" as to how things came to be...

A few of the differences are...

(1) "tree of the knowledge of Good & Evil" is not mentioned in the first "account"
(2) The first "account" is 7 days, the second in the "day" (singular)
(3) The first shows both male & female created, the 2nd makes them separate creations
(4) The first says EVERY TREE was given, the 2nd prohibits one...
(5) God notes EVERY THING in creation to be VERY GOOD in the 1st, but is unhappy in the 2nd...
(6) The first mentions God creating man, but does not note, as in the 2nd, that it is done of the dust, nor does the first mention the breath of life.

Because of these things (there are more, but I'd like to address #1 at this time)... Many are concerned about these 2 varying reports... and as to how they might find harmony...

Some even speculate Genesis 1 to be a prophecy of the "re-creation" of the New Heavens and New earth...  :dontknow:

It is my observation OF the DAY of YHVH is that ALL TIME (from the first day to the LAST) is found within, ...this "DAY" of YHVH mentioned in Gen 2:4...

The account of Genesis one is the Creation of TIME and all within it... the DAY of YHVH is the ETERNAL state of NOW in which ALL GENERATIONS (all time participants and affiliated things) take place.

It mentions in verse 4:  these are the GENERATIONS of the Heavens and the Earth - WHEN [in time] they were created...

Though each "GENERATION" appears at different moments IN time...  ALL GENERATIONS appear in NOW, and at the moment they ARE (now) in time, are they found "created"...

ALL "time" is found to take place, or occur, "in" NOW...

"NOW" knows no future or past (these are observations of TIME), and in the end all that the observations of the future and the past actually are, is NOW that has occured or, NOW that is yet to occur.

ALL "TIME" (the "days" of Man) take place in NOW... which is THE ETERNAL state and "DAY" of YHVH... 

GOD created TIME (in my observation), as a TEMPORAL classroom if you will, in which to REVEAL the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil in His Children which are found to be both, the TEMPLE of YHVH and the BODY of His Son, ...CHRIST...

I say REVEAL because:

YHVH and JESUS CHRIST are BOTH noted in Scripture as UNCHANGING (Mal 3:6) and (Heb 13:8 / James 1:17)

So any portion of YHVH (temple) or JESUS (body) has ALWAYS BEEN as it ...IS... and is UNCHANGING...

YHVH and His WORD, have the knowledge of good and evil, and in order that the Children of the MOST HIGH, be ALL in Him, and He ALL in them, the REVEALING of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is thereby manifest to be the GLORIOUS LIBERTY of the Children... which GLORIFIES the Father, which GLORIFIES the Son...

In other words...

If a veil is over my hand, and prevents you from seeing my hand, ...my hand does not change at all with the removal of the veil, it simply becomes  visible (revealed) to you...  My hand, IS still my hand, ...veil or no veil...  :happygrin:

I will make further comments about the two "accounts" in my forthcoming posts...

peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2008, 01:56:56 AM »
So am I to conclude that through all the noise, you cannot come up with any Bible verses that say that God created alien beings on other planets or galaxies, Willie?  It looks that way.  It's not in the Bible.

We know where particular men came from--God created man.

We know where plywood and chevies come from--the men God created and gave dominion to made them.

Everything on earth was made for man, as the co-heirs with Christ,  as well as everything in heaven.



Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:



26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

 27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

--Colossians 1




Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.


Offline studier

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 1805
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #54 on: July 06, 2008, 02:01:29 AM »
What Molly does, is a common practice among those who prefer hasty generalizations. She participates in three common fallacies:

#1 Word Study Fallacy (aka Root Word Fallacy), in which she does not take the word presented to mean what it means but the root of that word to mean what it means. This practice is severely flawed, and not accepted by any serious theological school and usually called the "lazy man's study".

Craig's
Rule #1 when it comes to words. The word used, is what the word meant, not it's root.

#2 Anchronistic Word Fallacy (Semantic Anachronism), in which she applies a modern understanding of philosophy, to the words used in ancient times and would have no such understanding to begin with.

Craig's
Rule #2 when it comes to words. The word used, in it's time, is what the word meant, not what it means today.

#3 Multiple Choice Fallacy (Overload Fallacy), in which a word has many different definitions and chooses the one that most fits what she wants it to say, not what it says.

Craig's
Rule #3 when it comes to words. The word used, it it's context, is what the word meant, not what you want it say.

I find it hard to believe that this stuff keeps getting passed off as good study habits.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 02:05:09 AM by SOtW »

Offline studier

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 1805
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #55 on: July 06, 2008, 02:04:37 AM »
Quote
So am I to conclude that through all the noise, you cannot come up with any Bible verses that say that God created alien beings on other planets or galaxies, Willie?  It looks that way.  It's not in the Bible.

Another error in study practice, a fallacy known as "Reification / Hypostatization" and also, in a special form of "Argumentum ad Ignorantiam" called Shifting the burden of proof.

This whole debate was formed because someone made a clear distinction that there was no aliens; yet Scripture does not state there is no aliens or extra-terrestial life, either. So what happens is, this turns into a discussion, into a chuck full of fallacy slingfest, as a person tries to secure their position with a definite answer, which they themselves cannot prove either.

I can find many Scriptures, which proves that we do not know what was created in the 'heavens'; this is what we know as outerspace. Because we only have an account of what was created on earth with some part of the heavens described. The portion in which the heavens were created has literally been kept from us from knowing all that was made in the heavens.

Example, where in Scripture does it say God created the horsehead nebula? Where does it say that God created the sun to have solar flares? Where does Scripture tell us there is quite a few moons orbitting Jupiter. Where does Scripture describe God created the planets?

These things God did create, yet in the creation story, there is no mention of these things. We know they are real and they exist, therefore just because something is not mentioned in Scripture, does not mean it does not exist. On the same token, if something is not mentioned in Scripture, it does not nessesarily mean it does exist either.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 02:12:37 AM by SOtW »

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2008, 02:08:51 AM »
Quote
So am I to conclude that through all the noise, you cannot come up with any Bible verses that say that God created alien beings on other planets or galaxies, Willie?  It looks that way.  It's not in the Bible.

Another error in study practice, a fallacy known as "Reification / Hypostatization" and also, in a special form of "Argumentum ad Ignorantiam" called Shifting the burden of proof.

This whole debate was formed because someone made a clear distinction that there was no aliens; yet Scripture does not state their is no aliens or extra-terrestial life. So what happens is, this turns into a discussion, into a chuck full of fallacy slingfest, as a person tries to secure their position with a definite answer, which they themselves cannot prove either.
Can you show me verses where it says that God created alien beings on other planets?

I have a Bible which describes what God created and for what purpose.  I'm just using it.  You complain about that?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 02:10:22 AM by Molly »

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2008, 02:21:36 AM »
Quote
Example, where in Scripture does it say God created the horsehead nebula? Where does it say that God created the sun to have solar flares? Where does Scripture tell us there is quite a few moons orbitting Jupiter. Where does Scripture describe God created the planets?

We are told that God created all those lights up there in the sky.  So when we look up, we don't gasp and say--what's that?

The horsehead nebula is one of those lights, which when we see up close is shockingly beautiful, but we are told he created it.  You think an alien created it?

We know he created all things on the earth and gave man dominion over them.  I haven't yet seen every form of life on earth, have you?  But I know there are no alien beings from another planet on earth because that is not in the Bible.  In general, I know what to expect from the Bible, so I don't expect to be surprised by any 20 foot cockroaches from Mars that like to eat people.

If I see anything like that on the evening news, I will know it's just another gimmick by men who enjoy subjugating other men.

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven.. for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and for years...


That would include planets--but I don't think that includes UFO's.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 02:31:16 AM by Molly »

Paul Hazelwood

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2008, 02:36:16 AM »

Here is my perspective Molly.    I will pretend that I am an inhabitant of another world and we have found manuscripts from an ancient culture.  I try to strip the ideas that hollywood and books have given us about aliens and  try to speculate a lost soul on another planet.   I grew up being told the planet I am on is earth.

I cannot know that across the expanse is another world whose inhabitants have also named the place they reside earth.  They might have even named it something else.

You have to understand that the word translated to earth is not a strict meaning,  the word has other meanings and we use earth in our bible because this IS where WE live and we are reading words that have been TRANSLATED to the best meaning in OUR  language. 

 Do you find it curious that we do not have what might be considered "original" manuscripts. Those who say something has been translated from original manuscripts are in error.

The oldest manuscripts have been said to be copies.  What if the copies were translated from words that did not come from our own earth?   Indeed, Gods words did not come from EARTH, it came from GOD.

So even if we could find manuscripts that could be claimed as original, the true origin of these "originals" still did not come from "earth".

I capitalized words for emphasis, not to shout.

If inhabitants of another world have the scriptures, all the spiritual meanings would be the same,  but they might be translated to the names of people and places that reside on that planet.   All the words of israelites, pharasees,  John the baptist, etc could all be changed and the spiritual meaning would be the same.

The metaphor in Genesis easily allows all kinds of possibilities of life.


The Gift of God does not require us to accept it on our own,  God draws all men unto himself, the debate is moot otherwise as the Gift of God is beyond our comprehension and it is not limited to "US".


Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2008, 02:46:28 AM »
willieH: Hi Joyce!  :hithere:

Hi guys! :bigGrin:
2-- why does God give us various accounts/retelling? of the creation in Scripture?

Joyce :)

Quote from: willieH
(2) The first "account" is 7 days, the second in the "day" (singular)

I think I addressed this one in my previous post...

The 1st "account" in Genesis is about the creation of TIME and its participants...

The 2nd "account" is about the GENERATIONS of those which traverse time... which are found IN YHVH (Acts 17:28) and IN the DAY of YHVH...  that which is IN YHVH, is IN ETERNITY... This includes time, the natural creation, all that IS... (Col 1:

Quote from: willieH
(3) The first shows both male & female created, the 2nd makes them separate creations

GOD created the parameters of the inhabitants and characteristics of TIME in the first account...

INHABITANTS:  Male & female, all creatures, plants, waters, etc...
CHARACTERISTICS:  Celestial bodies - Seasons, Days, years, etc...

GOD then manifests those parameters in the 2nd account GENERATION by GENERATION, all of which are found within the DAY of YHVH God... Beginning with the 1st Generation, Adam and Eve...

YHVH first brings forth the Garden for Man to live in, ...then brings forth the Man, ...and then brings forth the rivers for him to swim in and drink from, ...then brings the animals to the man to be named, entering into (by name) intimate fellowship with them, ...and finally from the Man, brings forth the Woman with whom the Generations of Man shall share life upon the earth...

Quote from: willieH
(4) The first appears to say that EVERY TREE was given, the 2nd prohibits one...

Every herb bearing SEED WAS GIVEN as food... and EVERY tree IN the WHICH is the fruit of a tree YIELDING SEED... (Gen 1:29)

My question here is, ...DID the "tree of the Knowledge of good and evil" actually YIELD SEED?  :Chinscratch: hmmm.... not sure about that one!  :dunno:

The tree of itself was ordinary (probably a fig tree)... but it was the FORBIDDANCE of it, which set it aside from the others in the Garden...

In the 1st "account" EVERY TREE Yielding SEED, was given for FOOD (Gen 1:28)

In the 2nd "account" GOD noted that ONE tree was to be avoided.  Guess it is entirely possible that this tree did not YIELD SEED...  :dontknow:

It was decided by YHVH that the man know good and evil... and that the PURPOSE of GOD be REVEALED as it IS WRITTEN...

Something like this... I have 100 cars in my garage... and ALL the cars belong to me (and thereby indirectly, my son)... They are ALL vehicles which are meant to be DRIVEN, but as the CONTROLLING OWNER of the cars, I decide my Son can only drive 99 of OUR CARS... and, even though the remaining car is still (indirectly) HIS, and it is good for DRIVING, it is FORBIDDEN to him...

My command does not alter that ALL the cars are still HIS, nor does it alter the DRIVEABILITY of the FORBIDDEN CAR, but His access to it has been limited by My decision because of KNOWLEDGE that I have, which HE does not... 

The decision is made because the BRAKES on the car can potentially cause an accident... My son has no knowledge of this problem... and I see no reason to tell him, in part because he has 99 other cars to drive, and in part because I wish to invest TRUST in him to obey my command.

That the car is FORBIDDEN, sets IT apart from the other 99... and the condition of  FORBIDDANCE IS the attraction of it...

I know this is a long drawn out illustration, but it is essentially what happened in the Garden...

Quote
(5) God notes EVERY THING in creation to be VERY GOOD in the 1st, but is unhappy in the 2nd...

In the first "account" GOD says everything is VERY GOOD.  But does NOT say that it is  PERFECT. 

It is very good, because, even though He shall bear longsuffering, the goal and PURPOSE of the Creation, will be the PERFECTION achieved IN TIME, in His Son, ...as,

Adam shall KNOW as does YHVH and His WORD, ...good and evil, and upon that REVELATION, shall be REVEALED as PERFECT upon the conclusion of that REVELATION, exactly and to the detail, as is YHVH Himself...

Quote from: willieH
(6) The first mentions God creating man, but does not note, as in the 2nd, that it is done of the dust, nor does the first mention the breath of life.

Though this detail is not present in the 1st account, does not in any way negate that ALL MEN gain life in this manner.  At the Creative hand of YHVH and become animated to LIFE, ...by the breath of HIS SPIRIT, which IS the breath of life...

peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:

joyful1

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2008, 03:07:00 AM »

These things God did create, yet in the creation story, there is no mention of these things. We know they are real and they exist, therefore just because something is not mentioned in Scripture, does not mean it does not exist. On the same token, if something is not mentioned in Scripture, it does not nessesarily mean it does exist either.

So are aliens real or not?  :happygrin:
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 03:08:36 AM by joyful1 »

Offline studier

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 1805
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2008, 03:31:04 AM »

These things God did create, yet in the creation story, there is no mention of these things. We know they are real and they exist, therefore just because something is not mentioned in Scripture, does not mean it does not exist. On the same token, if something is not mentioned in Scripture, it does not nessesarily mean it does exist either.

So are aliens real or not?  :happygrin:


What does it matter? I suspect most probably there is life extra-terrestial. We know angels exist, we know spirits exist, and we know demons exist. These things did not have their life originate on earth (as Molly's defense is), therefore, if anything does exist, it exists solely because God created it (not for our benefit, as Molly insists) but for Himself.

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2008, 03:35:02 AM »

These things God did create, yet in the creation story, there is no mention of these things. We know they are real and they exist, therefore just because something is not mentioned in Scripture, does not mean it does not exist. On the same token, if something is not mentioned in Scripture, it does not nessesarily mean it does exist either.

So are aliens real or not?  :happygrin:

Not real.

Everything was created by him and for him--of which we are co-heirs with Christ.

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #63 on: July 06, 2008, 03:55:21 AM »
willieH: Hey Molly...  :hihat:

How-ah-ya?  :mwink:

So am I to conclude that through all the noise, you cannot come up with any Bible verses that say that God created alien beings on other planets or galaxies, Willie?  It looks that way.  It's not in the Bible.

Don't need to...  :laughing7:  I have already shown your logic to be without foundation, as are most of your theories...

As I said, YOU have not responded to challenges from me recently with answers, so I feel under no obligation whatsoever to answer your foolish requests...  :thumbdown:

Craig has presented a more than adaquate examination of the fallacy of your approach...

Nixing the subject of ALIENS, which neither states or dismisses their existence, but  according to you, this BIBLICAL SILENCE, automatically relegates them to being NON EXISTENT...

The lack of notation neither proves or disproves, ...existence OR non-existence!  Of this question, the Bible just silently SAYS:   NO COMMENT!  :dontknow:

YOU of all people who recently has used over and over, ASSERTIONS that are NOT in the BIBLE, to name a few:

 "ADAM was ETERNAL", and...  "there was NO TIME in the Garden"...  you stubbornly  and willfully IGNORED several requests by me, to support these assertions with Biblical support...

Now you are found requiring proof for the existence of ALIENS from others from the BIBLE!  How CONTRARY and HYPOCRITICAL is that?  :prankster:

No one here is claiming they absolutely exist... most are just open to the possibility that they may (possibly) exist... and as far as the Bible goes, ...it says NOTHING, one way or the other...  :dontknow:

Quote
We know where particular men came from--God created man

They are not named in the Bible so this approach does not verify your thinking that a given thing must be noted in the Bible in order to be existent...

Quote
We know where plywood and chevies come from--the men God created and gave dominion to made them.

Again, these EXISTENT things, still do not appear in the Bible, ...therefore your arguement is found wallowing IN the mud of ILLOGICAL futility...

Quote from: Molly
Everything on earth was made for man, as the co-heirs with Christ,  as well as everything in heaven.

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

ALL THINGS created that are in HEAVEN, are not named in the Bible, and so  according to YOU, ...they too, (like ALIENS) must NOT EXIST...  :laugh:

Please Molly... float back down to earth wouldya?

The other Scriptures you listed, were not relevant and did not establish your arguement...  I see no point in addressing them...

Paul noted there are several planets and moons which are NOT visible to the naked eye, yet exist... 

BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of distant Stars,  EXIST in the Universe... yet do not send their LIGHT upon the earth... and accordingly, they are therefore NOT used in determining SEASONS or SIGNS... yet they EXIST in the UNIVERSE...

WHY Molly?  I'll tell you WHY... GOD has a PURPOSE for them, which you and I cannot SEE or KNOW... because they DO exist!  Yet they do NOT shine their light upon the earth... as they are FAR too DISTANT from earth...

As time goes on, scientists will develop more sophisticated photographical equipment, ...and more and more stars will be DISCOVERED, which do NOT shine their light upon the earth... guess we better let the scientists know that MOLLY said they don't exist either - eh?  ...  :wacko2:

 :IloveU: sister Molly, but you gotta...

Float on down sis...  :cloud9:  float on down...  :cloud9:

peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 04:19:36 AM by willieH »

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #64 on: July 06, 2008, 04:06:05 AM »
You still seem to be missing the grand story of the Bible, Willie.

It's not about aliens; there are no aliens;  its about Christ and us.


1 John 3:2
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Offline studier

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 1805
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #65 on: July 06, 2008, 04:18:20 AM »

These things God did create, yet in the creation story, there is no mention of these things. We know they are real and they exist, therefore just because something is not mentioned in Scripture, does not mean it does not exist. On the same token, if something is not mentioned in Scripture, it does not nessesarily mean it does exist either.

So are aliens real or not?  :happygrin:

Not real.

Everything was created by him and for him--of which we are co-heirs with Christ.

Which neither enforces or denies the existance of extra-terrestial life. So what is your point?

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #66 on: July 06, 2008, 04:18:36 AM »
willieH: Hey Joyce...  :hihat:


So are aliens real or not?  :happygrin:


No one at this point in time, really knows sister Joyce... and no one has PROVEN one way or the other...

Guess it will take...

FRIENDLY contact:   a SPACESHIP landing on the Whitehouse lawn or in the middle of the HOLLYWOOD Freeway, or...

UNFRIENDLY contact:  an out and out attack of earth, to prove it... (even then, I think sister Molly would still be in denial - :laughing7: )

Personally, I believe they do exist... and I also believe they shall somehow, have part in the end of this world...  

ALL anyone says at this point is purely speculation (including Molly)... On this subject I could be ENTIRELY incorrect... Its just a gut feeling...

Several Sci-Fi writers have shown an uncanny prophetic ability in their writings... Jules Verne in particular, especially had several projections in his writings which came to pass...

Hey, maybe Molly is right... but as I observe it, NO one is in a position to prove or disprove the existence of them at this point...

I have not had a personal experience with UFO's, ...but SOMETHING is going on here and there... which is beyond normal "earth type" activity...

I have spoken to a few people which have had experiences, ...and just like NDE's... when a person has had such an experience, they could CARE LESS if you believe it was real or not...  :dontknow:

There is a place in Washington state, called Ledbetter Lake... Molly should visit it sometime and then speak about her viewpoint...

Dogs wont even go there... :omg:

peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:

Offline studier

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 1805
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #67 on: July 06, 2008, 04:22:15 AM »
You still seem to be missing the grand story of the Bible, Willie.

It's not about aliens; there are no aliens;  its about Christ and us.


1 John 3:2
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.


You keep asserting that there are no aliens, when you have not disproven their existance. What is your problem with Aliens? Do you get jealous that they may also be co-heirs with Christ? What if they are not? What if we are co-heirs with Christ, and they, like everything else in creation, is just part of creation. Perhaps we have dominion of them too, then it doesn't matter if we are co-heirs or what we will be when he appears. Nothing you present here in this thread has any relevance to what this discussion is about.

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #68 on: July 06, 2008, 04:28:45 AM »
Quote
Guess it will take...

FRIENDLY contact:   a SPACESHIP landing on the Whitehouse lawn or in the middle of the HOLLYWOOD Freeway, or...

UNFRIENDLY contact:  an out and out attack of earth, to prove it... (even then, I think sister Molly would still be in denial -  )

You bet I will deny them.  I firmly believe that UFO's have been seen, that they exist, that they use technology that is kept secret from us plebians--because WE allow it to be kept secret from us and just mope along paying 4, 5, and 6 dollars at the gas tank.  I know they exist for sure because I have a friend who has seen one up close and described it to me and its silent and extraordinarily fast maneuvers and flight.  She saw it forty years ago.

So you and Craig telling people that there might be aliens controlling them--when they are most assuredly men--are doing the human race a huge disservice, because when the time comes that men want to push for total control of the world, producing their 'faux aliens' that the public has been primed to accept will be a great way to do it.  It's already been proven to work once.

READ your Bible.


Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #69 on: July 06, 2008, 04:36:14 AM »
willieH: Hi molly... :mpardon:

You still seem to be missing the grand story of the Bible, Willie.

It's not about aliens; there are no aliens;  its about Christ and us.


1 John 3:2
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

(1)  I'm not missing the grand story of the Bible at all, Molly... which is about the LOVE of YHVH God for His Children...

There are BILLIONS of things going on in creation of which neither YOU nor I have a clue...

What about what is going on at the bottom of the ocean Molly?  Is there NO PURPOSE in it?  GOD created the ocean and is about monitoring its part in Creation... is it in VAIN? 

Get off you pious cloud, and admit that most of the time you argue from UNBIBLICAL platforms, which is WHY Molly, you have little Biblical proof for your beliefs... and why you AVOID the Bible when it is not convenient to you...

(2)  Prove with the BIBLE that there are no ALIENS, Molly... quote the verses which support your assertion...

I do not claim they exist, I am open to the possibility... You have GOD all boxed up in your little theology, and expect no one else KNOWS about Him and His "grand story"!   :laughing7: ...please... float on down sis,  :cloud9:  ...float on down...  :cloud9:

peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #70 on: July 06, 2008, 04:48:16 AM »
Quote
(2)  Prove with the BIBLE that there are no ALIENS, Molly... quote the verses which support your assertion...

I have proven it from the Bible, over and over.  He created all this for us--as co-heirs with Christ--by him and for him.

Not for 20 foot cockroaches from Mars or bug eyed grey men from the Pleides demanding to phone home.

For us!

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #71 on: July 06, 2008, 04:58:29 AM »
willieH: Hi Molly...  :cloud9:

Quote from: willieH
Guess it will take...

FRIENDLY contact:   a SPACESHIP landing on the Whitehouse lawn or in the middle of the HOLLYWOOD Freeway, or...

UNFRIENDLY contact:  an out and out attack of earth, to prove it... (even then, I think sister Molly would still be in denial -  )

You bet I will deny them.  I firmly believe that UFO's have been seen, that they exist, that they use technology that is kept secret from us plebians--because WE allow it to be kept secret from us and just mope along paying 4, 5, and 6 dollars at the gas tank.  I know they exist for sure because I have a friend who has seen one up close and described it to me and its silent and extraordinarily fast maneuvers and flight.  She saw it forty years ago.

You better cease with this ALIEN propaganda Molly...  :laughing7:  Volunteering your friends HEARSAY as VALID proof... please...   :laughing7:

There are cartoon shows about spaceships Molly... they provide as much PROOF as does your friends ALLEGED  experience...  :dontknow:

So you and Craig telling people that there might be aliens controlling them

TELLING PEOPLE?  Telling people what Molly?  Get a grip!

You will OF COURSE, quote where I stated that ALIENS were controlling ANYTHING please! thank you...

You talk out your ____ most of the time Molly...  :thumbdown:

If you are not doing so here... you will easily be able to provide the QUOTE where I said such a thing...  I don't recall CRAIG saying such a thing either...  :dontknow:

We have both remained open to the POSSIBILITY that ALIENS could exist... no one has made statements that they DO EXIST, nor that they CONTROL anything... :mnah:

--when they are most assuredly men--are doing the human race a huge disservice, because when the time comes that men want to push for total control of the world, producing their 'faux aliens' that the public has been primed to accept will be a great way to do it.  It's already been proven to work once.

Trust GOD Molly, and don't worry about the contrivings and/or conspiracy's of men...

ALL shall occur as YHVH Declared from the BEGINNING, that it shall... If ALIENS are existent and they are part of this thing, then they shall have their part... if they ARE not existent... then they shall NOT have a part...

What's the problem?  :dontknow:

Your worry is a lack of faith... get over it, and take your own advice:

READ your Bible.

peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #72 on: July 06, 2008, 05:16:31 AM »
Quote
Volunteering your friends HEARSAY as VALID proof... please...   

There are cartoon shows about spaceships Molly... they provide as much PROOF as does your friends ALLEGED  experience...

You don't have to take my word for it.  Go on the internet and watch them.  Watch the group of people, from radar controllers to pilots to military, give their testimony about them.

Look at the crop circles which they are becoming so proficient at drawing in the wheat fields.

Or use the common sense that God gave you to realize that we have really advanced much further in 100 years of flight than the put-put jet engine.  We are talking here about the human race that has split the atom and the gene in the same time period.

They exist alright.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 05:19:10 AM by Molly »

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #73 on: July 06, 2008, 05:20:29 AM »
willieH:  Molly...  :cloud9:

Is it a weekend pass you have there Molly?  :laughing7: (jus-kidn!  :laughhand:)

Quote from: willieH
(2)  Prove with the BIBLE that there are no ALIENS, Molly... quote the verses which support your assertion...

I have proven it from the Bible, over and over.  He created all this for us--as co-heirs with Christ--by him and for him.

No one has made any denials concerning the destiny of the Human race Molly... as joint-heirs with CHRIST...

That some might consider that other beings live outside the earth, does not challenge that destiny whatsoever...

You haven't PROVEN anything... Where in the BIBLE does it SAY that ALIENS do NOT EXIST Molly --- PROVE IT...  :dontknow:

You have PROVEN, NOTHING...  :sigh:

Not for 20 foot cockroaches from Mars or bug eyed grey men from the Pleides demanding to phone home.

I am afraid it is YOU who is the one with the runaway imagination what with your -- "20 foot cockroaches from Mars"...  :pointlaugh:

You sit and criticize wonderful and entertaining authors such as Isaac Azimov and Arthure C. Clarke (that is how his name is CORRECTLY spelled)... and then spout off with a ridiculous outburst such as this...  :drunken_smilie: please...  what are you drinking?  :beerburp:

peaCe...
...willieH  :icon_king:

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #74 on: July 06, 2008, 05:32:36 AM »
Quote
That some might consider that other beings live outside the earth, does not challenge that destiny whatsoever...

It challenges what God tells us in Genesis, that he created the lights in heaven for us-- to give light on the earth in the day and in the night, for signs and seasons, for days, months, and years.

He didn't create the lights in the heavens as homes for little green men.

Nobody but us cares about notating signs, seasons, days, months, and years--or has the monkey calendar been discovered?


« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 05:37:52 AM by Molly »