Author Topic: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"  (Read 9292 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

joyful1

  • Guest
"Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« on: July 01, 2008, 06:59:38 AM »
:icon_flower: Hi all! I'm new here. My introduction "Hello!" ended up being a bit lengthy as a few of us started discussing "origins, angels and aliens." So I've started this thread to CONTINUE the discussion and make it more accessible for all. Hope this is ok!

You can check out the questions that were being discussed in the previous thread and jump right in, over here, anytime!

Thanks for the chance to discuss these subjects with believers.
Sincerely,
Joyce :)

martincisneros

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2008, 07:34:06 AM »
Aliens for some people are probably going to be a matter of semantics.  Anything unknown to us is "alien."  The universe is full of "unknowns."  Which of those can reach out and touch someone remains to be seen!  I'm not sure if the Bible says very much on the origins of angels, although there have been many assumptions.  I would wonder that if there were any Biblical answer to this question if it would be found not so much in the language of how you interpret "messengers," whether human or from another demension, but perhaps it would be in some of the Bible's language of wind, sound, and fire.  "He's made His messengers a flame of fire!" -- applicable to us and perhaps to others...

joyful1

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2008, 09:58:31 PM »
Right on, Martin! And since they come FROM GOD, and GOD Himself is a consuming fire....hmmmm!

Hebrews 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.

Deuteronomy 4:24
For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire...

then it stands to reason that their messages are the WORDS that God sends to us, they could be in fact the messages themselves, looking at it symbolically.......an embodiement of the WORD, the Sons of God, angels! Maybe that's where the term came from?

Still, we must "try the spirits" and by that I mean, "try the messenger" by looking at the message: because Satan himself can change into an angel of light!

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Something to think about in light of our previous discussion about angels!

Joyce :)



Michele

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2008, 10:48:57 PM »
This is an interesting thread...I would like to add that I believe that there are different realms of consciousness which coexist with us.  Just because we can't always see proof of this......it doesn't mean it's not there.

Some proof of this resides in the large number of accounts out there which describe the different things people see when they've experienced "Sleep Paralysis".  Things like angels, fires, spiders, witches, and aliens, etc.... which would seem to come from the subconscious mind.

Sleep paralysis is a condition in which someone about to fall asleep, or just upon waking from sleep, realizes that they are unable to move or speak, but can still breathe and move their eyes. I like to call this "half-asleep/half-awake" stage the "twilight" stage. Your conscious mind has begun to drift into sleep but is not yet there, therefore you still retain a small amount of your waking conscious. It is a very transitory stage indeed, and one that seems to leave you "open" to certain experiences you would not otherwise be receptive to when fully conscious or fully asleep. It is also accepted by most researchers that although this can happen in any sleeping position, it most commonly occurs in the supine position (laying on your back).

Just thought this would be interesting to add to this thread.

Any thoughts??



Paul Hazelwood

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2008, 11:43:30 PM »
 

H.G. Wells War of the Worlds and almost any other depiction of life from another world visiting us in our present state of technology plays into the truth of the human condition.

Anything capable of traveling to our planet from another world would be superior and able to destroy us.  However history has shown that "terrestrial" man will indeed seek to control and destroy other men so it stand to reason that we would expect other life forms to be the same.

So I see our perspective of "Aliens" a mirror to our soul.


If they do exist, God created them and they are just as much a part of his plan as we are.



joyful1

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2008, 04:51:30 AM »
Hi Stainedglass :)
When I was dealing with sleep paralysis, the only thing that would set me free was to be able to utter the name of Jesus. Sounds simple, but it worked and I was always grateful that I could count on it! The experiences were terrifying beyond anything that I can think of to this day. But your idea is interesting. I'll have to give this some more thought.

Paul, we were talking at one point about the possibility of alien life existing and their need for redemption, if indeed we are talking about actual living beings. I've always been curious about this subject. However, a person that I respect because of their diligence in studying the Word of God, has made the statement that he does not believe that they actually "exist" because "Eve was the mother of all living." Now I haven't been able to clarify what "exist" means to this person as yet, but I am wondering if you have any take on that statement? Clearly people are experiencing seeing something--but is this a "grand illusion" that is happening world wide? I am sceptical because of the "message" that they seem to be saying to the human contactees. And while investigating this subject recently in depth, flooding myself with as much material as I could find, I experienced seeing people of strong Christian faith, seemingly, overnight give up everything that they believed to be true about the universe simply because they heard a story about something an "alien" said! wow! My own faith, admittedly became shaken at one point, thinking that the lies might be true! I'm convinced now that they are demonic in origin. But I completely understand if that is not where you are at right now. It is an "earth moving" experience to look at ALL the "evidence" that is out there. And clearly...something IS going on! But what is its "origin?" That is the question!! Looking forward to your posts!
Sincerely,
Joyce :)



Michele

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2008, 06:59:11 PM »
Enjoyed reading both your posts....Paul and Joyce. :bigGrin:  I agree that if it is real (in the sense of what we call "real")....it certainly means that there is a purpose for it.  I believe that God is above Reality (He is all Truth).  God is the creator of Reality. 

In response to the mention of H.G. Wells War of the Worlds... I've heard it said that just because something is classified as Fiction...it doesn't mean it's not true.  It just means it may not have happened yet.

I've always loved the depiction of the aliens in the movie/story Contact.  They appear as highly evolved spiritual beings that have an enormous degree of love.....and much to teach us about Life, once we're ready.  Sounds much like angels IMO.

I remember in the show....the X-Files.....they always said, "The Truth is out there".  This is what I've thought for quite some time, but now I believe that the Truth is within.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 07:38:36 PM by StainedGlass »

Paul Hazelwood

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2008, 07:39:04 PM »
Hi Stainedglass :)

Paul, we were talking at one point about the possibility of alien life existing and their need for redemption, if indeed we are talking about actual living beings. I've always been curious about this subject. However, a person that I respect because of their diligence in studying the Word of God, has made the statement that he does not believe that they actually "exist" because "Eve was the mother of all living." Now I haven't been able to clarify what "exist" means to this person as yet, but I am wondering if you have any take on that statement?


I believe I know this person you speak of and this person always reminds people of two things.  "The bible is a huge metaphor" and "Pay attention to the words"

The literal rendering of Genesis 3:20 does not use the word "was" but says

Gn 3:20 And calling is the human his wife's name Eve, for she becomes the mother of all the living.


I do not believe the bible  can be used conclusively to say that there is no other life on another world.  If there is life on another world, there is also no reason to believe they would be anything other than a world of humans such as us.


Could a figurative human live as the mother of all the living in existance?   Perhaps....












Paul Hazelwood

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2008, 08:17:30 PM »
Hi Stainedglass :)
Clearly people are experiencing seeing something--but is this a "grand illusion" that is happening world wide? I am sceptical because of the "message" that they seem to be saying to the human contactees.

I personally do not combine the accounts here of encounters with that being a true manifestation of any alien.   A planet that contains a race of human being may exist and we may never know where they are.  All encounters on earth could one day be proven false, that only proves that those people did not see aliens, that does not disprove the existance of them.

Quote
And while investigating this subject recently in depth, flooding myself with as much material as I could find, I experienced seeing people of strong Christian faith, seemingly, overnight give up everything that they believed to be true about the universe simply because they heard a story about something an "alien" said!

We humans are subject to deception, we are also subject to needing observation for our beliefs.  There certainly is not necessarily proof that these alien encounters are true, but there is evidence that can appear very significant.  If we believe that God is in control of all things, then these people are simply on a journey that God intends them to be on. 

Quote
wow! My own faith, admittedly became shaken at one point, thinking that the lies might be true! I'm convinced now that they are demonic in origin. But I completely understand if that is not where you are at right now. It is an "earth moving" experience to look at ALL the "evidence" that is out there. And clearly...something IS going on! But what is its "origin?" That is the question!! Looking forward to your posts!


The thing we as Christian people should understand.  we should not come to conclusions or teach conclusions that are not plainly written in scripture.

What I mean is that it is ok to contemplate what the interpretation of a group of scriputures might be, but we should not teach that we know for sure.

For instance,  some have speculated that 911 disaster in this country is paramount to scriptural end times.  While things may fit,  we cannot prove that it has to be.

However, it is plainly written that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all Mankind. Can we teach that as a bible truth proved in scripture, i believe so. 

 Do you see what I am saying here?


Michele

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2008, 09:29:40 PM »
Quote
I personally do not combine the accounts here of encounters with that being a true manifestation of any alien.   A planet that contains a race of human being may exist and we may never know where they are.  All encounters on earth could one day be proven false, that only proves that those people did not see aliens, that does not disprove the existance of them.

I agree....have you seen the lastest on what science has discovered regarding Earth's twin......and other planets out there that are much like our own.  Here is the link.....this was on MSN.com the other day as top article.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25350155/?GT1=43001

Given the seemingly infinite number of stars in the universe with an even more numerous number of potential planets, the likihood of a planet similar to Earth should be quite high.

It would seem that the likelihood of life on another planet, which is much like ours, is high too!  Perhaps there are millions of worlds very similar to ours...and that's just in this universe.  Don't forget about the parallel universe theory.  Where does that fit into all this?
 
It all just boggles my mind!




joyful1

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2008, 11:14:31 PM »
Paul--
Yes, I get what you are saying! :)
Something that you said; human beings on other planets....that thought had NEVER occurred to me...that regardless of an alien race of beings (even if you believe they are simply demons in disguise)....there could be HUMANS out there! wow! never thought about that! And certainly they would be part of the "whole creation" that groans for the manifestation of the sons of God!

Paul, I am a disciple, a student. I am learning. I don't teach. So not to worry. I can give an answer for the hope that is within me, if someone wants to go there. But that is as far as I will go. I enjoy discussing things with like minded believers, but i don't consider that teaching either.

Stainedglass--
I agree....there is so much going on right now. I had to bring myself back up to light speed recently, having taken a long hiatus from galactic news and so forth! I was overwhelmed to say the least.
But in trying to put it all into perspective now....

1) there IS NOTHING new under the sun
2) nothing can separate us from the love of God
3) the Holy Spirit will guide us into ALL TRUTH

Hey...this is amazing love, is it not, guys?  :)

Joyce :)

Michele

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2008, 11:53:32 PM »
Quote
But in trying to put it all into perspective now....

1) there IS NOTHING new under the sun
2) nothing can separate us from the love of God
3) the Holy Spirit will guide us into ALL TRUTH

Hey...this is amazing love, is it not, guys?  :)

Joyce :)

It sure is!  :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:

Paul Hazelwood

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2008, 12:11:57 AM »

Hi Joyce,

I did not write adequatly concerning teaching. So I want to clarify that it was not directed at you, but I see that my wording caused it to be and I apologize for that.

I was thinking of Ray Smith on the assumption that may be who you were referring to in your post.

I like many of Rays teachings and he speaks with authority and has every right to conclude something, but the conclusion cannot really be proven, even though it may not be able to be disproven.  The aspect of the topic cannot be discerned properly only through scripture reference.

  I was only wanting to be careful that my own conclusions and how we might see others thoughts do not become to set in stone when scripture can only be inferred rather than directly stated.

Hope that made sense.  :)



joyful1

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2008, 08:35:16 PM »
Hi Paul!  :icon_flower: No offense taken at all! I totally get where you are coming from!

I feel that the subject of "origins, angels and aliens" is important for two reasons:

1-- I don't feel anyone really knows what they believe, until their beliefs are challenged....until their very foundation is threatened. This is one subject that will shake whatever CAN be shaken in your belief system, should you actually expose yourself to any significant amount of the evidence that is available.

2-- I think an annoucement is probably forthcoming to the general public concerning these phenomena in the not too distant future. If that occurs, then, I'd like to be of some use to others in sorting out the questions that will surely follow.

Thanks for your posts on angels and aliens...I'm going to go over them again tonight and get back with you tomorrow.
 :JCThink:
Joyce :)

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2008, 10:49:37 PM »
willieH: Hi brother Paul... :hithere:

I shall enter this discussion (btw, I am an "alien" ...nut... of sorts!)  :wacko2: :tease:

addressing your post, first...  :cloud9:

I believe I know this person you speak of and this person always reminds people of two things.  "The bible is a huge metaphor"

This is an entirely CORRECT observation... the PHYSICAL or NATURAL is but a HUGE METAPHOR or REFLECTION of the truly REAL, which is in fact SPIRITUAL...

And the BIBLE which notes both, is found to reveal both in metaphorical terms...

Quote
The literal rendering of Genesis 3:20 does not use the word "was" but says

and "pay attention to the words"

Gn 3:20 And calling is the human his wife's name Eve, for she becomes the mother of all the living.

Brother P... in "paying attention to the words"... we can only "pay attention" to the ones which are actually THERE...  If they are NOT THERE, then what attention may we "pay" to them?  :grin:

The truth is, that there is no "literal" word which is translated, "becomes" in this text... nor is there a literal word "was" (as is noted in the KJV)... the text only finds the words (in blue):

From Strongs Concordance:

20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

All the other words are either gender observances, or characteristics of the word as best understood by the observer who is VERY inhibited by TIME and LOCATION factors which could potentially be found enhancing or deleting from that observance...

Translation from one language to another can often be found incorrect, for dialects and development of language at the moment, determines the actual meaning, and cannot be absolutely, conclusively and completely known, with so much time and location removed...

For example... You could go to Germany (I spent 3yrs there)... and find several variations of a given word being used as you move about the country, ...STILL being spoken in the GERMAN language, but differing in pronunciation, spelling, and even in deeper additional or inclusive meaning...  :dontknow:

The point is, that the word "WAS" or "BECOMES" in this text amounts to a point of view, VASTLY removed from the original LOCATION and TIME PERIOD... in which the TEXT was actually noted... 

Quote
I do not believe the bible  can be used conclusively to say that there is no other life on another world.  If there is life on another world, there is also no reason to believe they would be anything other than a world of humans such as us.

I agree with your first point here bro (red)... but of your second point (blue),

There is also no reason to believe otherwise brother Paul... GOD created INFINITE varieties on the earth... a dog is not a cat is not a mouse is not a tree is not a fish, is not a bird, is not a spider is not a human being...  :dontknow:

Because of the myriads of variations even within various species such as the Insect, Animal, Plant, Bird, and Marine Kingdoms, is reason enough to believe that there might be INNUMERABLE creatures which differ from humanity in the Universe.

If you will, the physical is but a REFLECTION of the SPIRITUAL... so what we see in the NATURAL and FINITE Universe, is only a MIRROR of that which IS in the SPIRITUAL and ETERNAL / INFINITE Universe...

That we can only see a VERY small portion of the FINITE Universe which we presently observe as PHYSICAL and NATURAL...  that SMALL portion of information, ...leaves INFINITE room for things to exist in the REFLECTED...  INFINITE and FOREVER palace of the living GOD, YHVH...

I love YHVH:LoveH1:  ...and can't wait to see His REAL "PAD", and all that's within it!  :omg:

pEace...
...willieH  :boogie:

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2008, 11:28:35 PM »
willieH: Hi brother Paul... :hithere:

  H.G. Wells War of the Worlds and almost any other depiction of life from another world visiting us in our present state of technology plays into the truth of the human condition.

Anything capable of traveling to our planet from another world would be superior and able to destroy us.  However history has shown that "terrestrial" man will indeed seek to control and destroy other men so it stand to reason that we would expect other life forms to be the same.

So I see our perspective of "Aliens" a mirror to our soul.


If they do exist, God created them and they are just as much a part of his plan as we are.

VERY WELL SAID brother P...  :clapping: :happyclap:

MEN, because of the NATURE or ability to DISOBEY, gravitate to that nature...

But "aliens", if they have not been created as such, could be as innocent as children, and not even KNOW what a weapon is, nor would even think to devise such a thing...  :dontknow:

pEace...
...willieH  :boogie:

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2008, 11:53:33 PM »
willieH: Hi SG...  :mwink:

Enjoyed reading both your posts....Paul and Joyce. :bigGrin:  I agree that if it is real (in the sense of what we call "real")....it certainly means that there is a purpose for it.  I believe that God is above Reality (He is all Truth).  God is the creator of Reality. 

In response to the mention of H.G. Wells War of the Worlds... I've heard it said that just because something is classified as Fiction...it doesn't mean it's not true.  It just means it may not have happened yet.

I have thought this same thing Michelle... JESUS CHRIST died to redeem CREATION... if "aliens" do exist, then they are IN the CREATION... for the entire UNIVERSE and its ENTIRE CONTENTS, are subject to that Redemption and are in NEED of it...

"ALL THINGS" extends to and includes The UNIVERSE in its ENTIRETY...  :dontknow:

Quote
I've always loved the depiction of the aliens in the movie/story Contact.  They appear as highly evolved spiritual beings that have an enormous degree of love.....and much to teach us about Life, once we're ready.  Sounds much like angels IMO.

One of my FAVORITE Science fiction movies, written by ATHIEST Carl Sagan... I believe Carl was coming around to himself, in this final work...  :cloud9:

Quote
I remember in the show....the X-Files.....they always said, "The Truth is out there".  This is what I've thought for quite some time, but now I believe that the Truth is within.

Very true... that which is "out there" is everything in the NATURAL creation... and in that Natural creation, is found the OPPOSITE to the TRUTH... which is WITHIN...

"Out there" is just a tainted reflection of what is "IN THERE" and UNTAINTED...  :dontknow:

There just might be "aliens"... and there just might be a "war of the worlds" to come... before it is all over...  :mshock:

pEace...
...willieH  :boogie:

Paul Hazelwood

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2008, 01:27:12 AM »
Brother P... in "paying attention to the words"... we can only "pay attention" to the ones which are actually THERE...  If they are NOT THERE, then what attention may we "pay" to them?  :grin:

The truth is, that there is no "literal" word which is translated, "becomes" in this text... nor is there a literal word "was" (as is noted in the KJV)... the text only finds the words (in blue):

From Strongs Concordance:

20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.


Hi, Willie.   All I can say is that I have not intentionally added words to scripture.  Using www.scripture4all.org I find 11 words total with strongs references in Genesis 3:20.   If there is a more accurate reference to Hebrew and Greek words of Scripture, by all means point me in that direction.


H7121 H120 H8034 H802 H2332 H3588 H1931 H1961 H517 H3605 H2416

The word in question is Strongs H1961 

H1961  hayah  haw-yaw

a primitive root (compare H1933);

to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere
copula or auxiliary):--beacon, X altogether, be(-come), accomplished,
committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow,
happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, X use.


EDIT:  Here is a link that shows a comparison of the manuscript text with the data from strongs concordance.

http://www.biblewheel.com/gr/GR_Database.asp?bnum=1&cnum=3&vnum=20&getverse=Go



True, the word "becomes" is not a strict word for word translation, but it is more accurate that "was" since there does not appear to be a direct past tense definition.  But in any case from my source I have paid attention to a word that is there.


Quote
I do not believe the bible  can be used conclusively to say that there is no other life on another world.  If there is life on another world, there is also no reason to believe they would be anything other than a world of humans such as us.
Quote
I agree with your first point here bro (red)... but of your second point (blue),

There is also no reason to believe otherwise brother Paul... GOD created INFINITE varieties on the earth... a dog is not a cat is not a mouse is not a tree is not a fish, is not a bird, is not a spider is not a human being...  :dontknow:

Because of the myriads of variations even within various species such as the Insect, Animal, Plant, Bird, and Marine Kingdoms, is reason enough to believe that there might be INNUMERABLE creatures which differ from humanity in the Universe.


And I am not necessarily disagreeing with you,  I will explain in a bit more detail.  I am not trying to limit anything God can do, but wanted to emphasize that while what you say is  very likely, it is also just as likely that humans just like us exist somewhere else. Just because we can imagine something gives no special cause to think that intelligent life elsewhere would have to be different.  But of course it could be. 

I would say that the variety of thought when it comes to aliens for the most part is fueled by fear.  The vast majority of images of aliens that are made from the imagination have a center of intimidation about them.  Most often they are larger, more powerful, more evil looking. 
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 01:39:29 AM by Paul Hazelwood »

Offline studier

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 1805
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2008, 02:06:33 AM »
I had a dream of this once, and I wrote it in a Script, I can't find it, so I will re-write it but more like a short story with some script elements.

To make a long story short. The dream starts out as I am a little child named Kelvin.


American Country Road - 3:00 am

I am a little child named Kelvin, riding in a rear facing seat of a large white station wagon driving in the country. It is cold, and the windows were a bit frosty. Looking out the window, as a child would do, I was making picture when all of a sudden, in one of the areas where the window was not frosted due to my drawing, a small light appears and gets larger and larger until it is realized to be a comet or meteorite which roars over head and crashes into an old water mill in the middle of a field.

I scream with excitement, "Mom, did you see that! A real life meteorite! Can we see it!"

My mother anxious notices the building is glowing and perhaps on fire. "Kelvin, settle down. I want you to stay in the car..." She drives off on a side dirt road towards the old mill.

As she pulls up, a light orange glow comes from inside. I open the door quietly and jump out of the car to see the meteorite crash. As I run, my mom screams to me to get back to the car, but it is too late. I enter the mill and notice a small glowing rock and it is nice and beautiful.

"Mom! It is okay!" I yell back. I bend down and poke the rock with a stick, but the stick doesn't burn. So I get closer, and feel no heat, I bend down and lick my finger and touch it. It is cool to the touch.

"Kelvin don't touch that!" My mother finally catches up and grabs my shoulder. As she does so, I look up to the small hole that it created in the roof. It was perfectly round, as if it wasn't a meteorite but a laser beam that burned through the roof. I focus on the night sky through the hole and step between the meteorite and the hole, and instantly a brilliant flash of light comes down through the hole and I disappear.

My mother screams, "Kelvin!" as I evaporate into nothingness.

Fade out

American Country Road - 8:30 am

Fade in

Firetrucks and ambulances and police cars line up around an old white station wagon. Firemen running back and forth and policemen are getting statements from the mother.

I am field agent, of the Federal Bureaus of Investigations, missing persons unit. Routine has called me to this piece of nowhere where a child has gone missing, perhaps even murdered possibly by the mother. It was my job to ensure that  all the facts were in place.

I let the police take their statements, I will check those later. It is a shame really, this woman looks sincere about her story as they investigate her son goes missing but they aren't buying it.

A police officer takings a statement says to the mother, "So let me get this straight, you saw a comet."

I interrupt him, "She said a meteor,"

The police officer looks at me with some disdain, "Sorry miss, a meteor..." He looks at me again for sarcastic approval. "...flies through the sky and lands crash into the watermill."

"Yes," Kelvin's mother nods wiping her tears.

"Miss, their is hardly any damage done to the watermill, what you are explaining would mean there would be not much left, maybe even a crater." The police officer casts doubt on her story.

"I don't know why, but I am telling you the truth." She says between a small sob.

I believe her, a small voice inside me tells me that she is telling the truth. Why? Because I am a Christian, to be more exact, I trust the small whisper of the Holy Spirit concerning these cases and the Lord has not led me astray yet. In fact this isn't the first time I have heard such a story. Three of my last cases involved similar stories, but this is the first one that had involved a child.

I have done research on similar cases around the world, and although some elements of the story changes, the basic progression of the story remains the same. The conclusion, as some of my compatriots tell me, is possible alien abductions. Something, being a Christian, goes against everything I was taught but I believe something weird is definitely involved in this case.

I walk over to where the firemen have done checking the watermill for a possibility that the boy had fallen into a small water hole below the watermill. They had their diving unit and everything. I show them my badge and they let me in closer. "Find anything?" I ask.

"Nothing," The lead fireman relays his news, "It is deep, but basically if the kid fell in, we would have found him."

I nod, "Keep up the good work guys, thanks."

Crossing a police line around a small hole which is said to be where the kid disappeared, literally. I notice dusty footprints of the child, lead to the hole but not away. I look up instinctively and notice a hole in the roof.

"That is interesting." I say stepping over the hole to get a better look at what I am seeing. I see a small twinkle of a star... ...a bright flash consumes me.

Alien Space Craft - Time unknown

Strapped to a table, I cannot move. I have had these experiences before. They call them sleep paralysis. It is where the body is asleep while the mind is wide awake. Though, I have never had this experience on a cold metal table and rows and rows of bodies hanging from various wires and tubing all around me.

I try to speak, but I find I cannot say a word. That is when I noticed two dark figures approaching me from my left side. I cannot move, I do not even think they know that I am awake. All I can do is hope to God, that He is watching over me.

As the two figures approach it becomes very clear that these are not normal. They are two lanky gray beings with large fly like eyes. Definitely the things people call alien. They don't have mouthes, but I can hear their voices clearly. "This one is awake." It says.

I try to speak even louder, "In..." I get the first word out, "...the..." I work all my energy to say the phrase which has given me so much strength, "...Name..." I can feel my tongue wanting to fall back in my mouth, "...of..." one last Word, "...JESUS" as I say my Savior's Name, I can could speak clearly and with strength, "let me go!"

The two beings take a step back and instead of cowering in fear, they seem very much surprised. "In the Name of Jesus?" The creatures say together.

"Yes." I now sit up, realizing I am naked and probably about to be probed. "In the Name of Jesus, my Lord and Savior, ruler of all that is created you have no right over me." I turn my body ready to fight these things physically if I had to.

It was then, did I realize, I was actually out of body, and my body was still laying down. These creatures were both physical and spiritual, they saw both my physical form laying down, and my spiritual form sitting up.

"We did not know..." The one alien says by the spirit placing a hand out hesitantly to calm me down. "...He is our Lord and Savior too."

That is when they began to tell me of God, who had come into His own creation through His Son, Jesus Christ. Who had about 2000 years ago, raised from the dead and in fact filled the whole universe, just as Ephesians said He did. All of creation mourned, including these extra-terrestial beings, because they were all in bondage to sin, but then Jesus had set them free showing them the truth.

"So why do you kidnap us and experiment on us?" I said.

They both laugh lightly, that is when I realized that I was not being experimented on. It seemed we were being collected as pets of some sort. They explain that I was the first to ever address them, they did not know we even spoke in the spirit. They misunderstood our speech and screams as we would understand a cat meow.

"Will you return us all back to our home planet?" I asked.

"Yes, we will, we are sorry. We have good news to tell our homeworld, that Jesus is the Savior of all the universe!"

Then I find myself standing in a field with a million or so others from around the world. Others who also were kidnapped in the same fashion, from different times and places.

The End.





« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 02:58:08 AM by jabcat »

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2008, 02:54:08 AM »
willieH: Hi Craig... :hithere:

What a great story!  :cloud9:

I had a dream of this once, and I wrote it in a Script, I can't find it, so I will re-write it but more like a short story with some script elements.

To make a long story short. The dream starts out as I am a little child named Kelvin.


American Country Road - 3:00 am

I am a little child named Kelvin, riding in a rear facing seat of a large white station wagon driving in the country. It is cold, and the windows were a bit frosty. Looking out the window, as a child would do, I was making picture when all of a sudden, in one of the areas where the window was not frosted due to my drawing, a small light appears and gets larger and larger until it is realized to be a comet or meteorite which roars over head and crashes into an old water mill in the middle of a field.

I scream with excitement, "Mom, did you see that! A real life meteorite! Can we see it!"

My mother anxious notices the building is glowing and perhaps on fire. "Kelvin, settle down. I want you to stay in the car..." She drives off on a side dirt road towards the old mill.

As she pulls up, a light orange glow comes from inside. I open the door quietly and jump out of the car to see the meteorite crash. As I run, my mom screams to me to get back to the car, but it is too late. I enter the mill and notice a small glowing rock and it is nice and beautiful.

"Mom! It is okay!" I yell back. I bend down and poke the rock with a stick, but the stick doesn't burn. So I get closer, and feel no heat, I bend down and lick my finger and touch it. It is cool to the touch.

"Kelvin don't touch that!" My mother finally catches up and grabs my shoulder. As she does so, I look up to the small hole that it created in the roof. It was perfectly round, as if it wasn't a meteorite but a laser beam that burned through the roof. I focus on the night sky through the hole and step between the meteorite and the hole, and instantly a brilliant flash of light comes down through the hole and I disappear.

My mother screams, "Kelvin!" as I evaporate into nothingness.

Fade out

American Country Road - 8:30 am

Fade in

Firetrucks and ambulances and police cars line up around an old white station wagon. Firemen running back and forth and policemen are getting statements from the mother.

I am field agent,  of the Federal Bureaus of Investigations, missing persons unit. Routine has called me to this piece of nowhere where a child has gone missing, perhaps even murdered possibly by the mother. It was my job to ensure that  all the facts were in place.

I let the police take their statements, I will check those later. It is a shame really, this woman looks sincere about her story as they investigate her son goes missing but they aren't buying it.

A police officer takings a statement says to the mother, "So let me get this straight, you saw a comet."

I interrupt him, "She said a meteor,"

The police officer looks at me with some disdain, "Sorry miss, a meteor..." He looks at me again for sarcastic approval. "...flies through the sky and lands crash into the watermill."

"Yes," Kelvin's mother nods wiping her tears.

"Miss, their is hardly any damage done to the watermill, what you are explaining would mean there would be not much left, maybe even a crater." The police officer casts doubt on her story.

"I don't know why, but I am telling you the truth." She says between a small sob.

I believe her, a small voice inside me tells me that she is telling the truth. Why? Because I am a Christian, to be more exact, I trust the small whisper of the Holy Spirit concerning these cases and the Lord has not led me astray yet. In fact this isn't the first time I have heard such a story. Three of my last cases involved similar stories, but this is the first one that had involved a child.

I have done research on similar cases around the world, and although some elements of the story changes, the basic progression of the story remains the same. The conclusion, as some of my compatriots tell me, is possible alien abductions. Something, being a Christian, goes against everything I was taught but I believe something weird is definitely involved in this case.

I walk over to where the firemen have done checking the watermill for a possibility that the boy had fallen into a small water hole below the watermill. They had their diving unit and everything. I show them my badge and they let me in closer. "Find anything?" I ask.

"Nothing," The lead fireman relays his news, "It is deep, but basically if the kid fell in, we would have found him."

I nod, "Keep up the good work guys, thanks."

Crossing a police line around a small hole which is said to be where the kid disappeared, literally. I notice dusty footprints of the child, lead to the hole but not away. I look up instinctively and notice a hole in the roof.

"That is interesting." I say stepping over the hole to get a better look at what I am seeing. I see a small twinkle of a star... ...a bright flash consumes me.

Alien Space Craft - Time unknown

Strapped to a table, I cannot move. I have had these experiences before. They call them sleep paralysis. It is where the body is asleep while the mind is wide awake. Though, I have never had this experience on a cold metal table and rows and rows of bodies hanging from various wires and tubing all around me.

I try to speak, but I find I cannot say a word. That is when I noticed two dark figures approaching me from my left side. I cannot move, I do not even think they know that I am awake. All I can do is hope to God, that He is watching over me.

As the two figures approach it becomes very clear that these are not normal. They are two lanky gray beings with large fly like eyes. Definitely the things people call alien. They don't have mouthes, but I can hear their voices clearly. "This one is awake." It says.

I try to speak even louder, "In..." I get the first word out, "...the..." I work all my energy to say the phrase which has given me so much strength, "...Name..." I can feel my tongue wanting to fall back in my mouth, "...of..." one last Word, "...JESUS" as I say my Savior's Name, I can could speak clearly and with strength, "let me go!"

The two beings take a step back and instead of cowering in fear, they seem very much surprised. "In the Name of Jesus?" The creatures say together.

"Yes." I now sit up, realizing I am naked and probably about to be probed. "In the Name of Jesus, my Lord and Savior, ruler of all that is created you have no right over me." I turn my body ready to fight these things physically if I had to.

It was then, did I realize, I was actually out of body, and my body was still laying down. These creatures were both physical and spiritual, they saw both my physical form laying down, and my spiritual form sitting up.

"We did not know..." The one alien says by the spirit placing a hand out hesitantly to calm me down. "...He is our Lord and Savior too."

That is when they began to tell me of God, who had come into His own creation through His Son, Jesus Christ. Who had about 2000 years ago, raised from the dead and in fact filled the whole universe, just as Ephesians said He did. All of creation mourned, including these extra-terrestial beings, because they were all in bondage to sin, but then Jesus had set them free showing them the truth.

"So why do you kidnap us and experiment on us?" I said.

They both laugh lightly, that is when I realized that I was not being experimented on. It seemed we were being collected as pets of some sort. They explain that I was the first to ever address them, they did not know we even spoke in the spirit. They misunderstood our speech and screams as we would understand a cat meow.

"Will you return us all back to our home planet?" I asked.

"Yes, we will, we are sorry. We have good news to tell our homeworld, that Jesus is the Savior of all the universe!"

Then I find myself standing in a field with a million or so others from around the world. Others who also were kidnapped in the same fashion, from different times and places.

The End.

WOW!  I really enjoyed that Craig!  :boogie:

pEace...
...willieH  :boogie:

« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 02:57:46 AM by jabcat »

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2008, 03:57:04 AM »
willieH: Hi Paul...  :cloud9:

Brother P... in "paying attention to the words"... we can only "pay attention" to the ones which are actually THERE...  If they are NOT THERE, then what attention may we "pay" to them?  :grin:

The truth is, that there is no "literal" word which is translated, "becomes" in this text... nor is there a literal word "was" (as is noted in the KJV)... the text only finds the words (in blue):

From Strongs Concordance:

20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Here is the link which I gathered the above notation in Gen 3:20 it shows translatable Hebrew words in blue, other "peripheral" words are in black (which do not appear in the Hebrew texts):

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm

Hi, Willie.   All I can say is that I have not intentionally added words to scripture.  Using www.scripture4all.org I find 11 words total with strongs references in Genesis 3:20.   If there is a more accurate reference to Hebrew and Greek words of Scripture, by all means point me in that direction.

I don't think you or I can "point" the other to a more "accurate" reference Paul...

For one, I think we are all to a degree at the mercy of INACCURATE references, and NONE of us is really qualified to "rate" them (as either more or less "accurate")...

You shall do it your way, and I mine, ...here is my approach:

In my experience, I tend to find less CALCULATED corruption in the works of the PAST, then in the MODERN efforts, and kind of stick with the KJV (with its myriads of RELIGIOUS errors) and STRONGS (with its obvious RELIGIOUS influences as well), as LESS CALCULATED, and therefore in a more innocent state, albeit to various degrees, ...RELIGIOUSLY influenced...  :dontknow:

And IN the use of these materials, I am trust in GOD's leading which exposes by that leading, those errors, and/or ...RELIGIOUS influences...  :mwink:

I certainly believe that you have not endeavored to add anything to the Scriptures, brother Paul, and I was not inferring you did so (add words to Scripture)...

The Hebrew word H1961 is NOT even IN the text of Gen 3:20

It is as I said... you OR I, can only "pay attention" to the words which ARE in the text... which I outlined in Blue above.

I was inferring that TRANSLATORS do this... as in the case of both "WAS" and "BECOMES"... Neither of these words are present in the Hebrew...

True, the word "becomes" is not a strict word for word translation, but it is more accurate that "was" since there does not appear to be a direct past tense definition.  But in any case from my source I have paid attention to a word that is there.

You have "paid attention" to a word that TRANSLATORS have said is "there" ("BECOMES" / Literal translation),  as have I ("WAS" / KJV translation), ...neither of which is actually "there", and that is my point me-bratha...   :icon_rr: :laugh:

I have read this particular passage many times, and admit that I have never even researched whether or not the word "WAS" actually "was in the original text"... so in the end, ...we are BOTH floating in the same "translation" boat - eh?  :laughing7:

pEace...
...willieH  :boogie:

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11265
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2008, 05:27:51 AM »
Gen 3:20  And Adam121 called7121 his wife's802 name8034 Eve;2332 because3588 she1931 was1961 the mother517 of all3605 living.2416


[she]"was"

H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.


hâyâh-- this is the same word that is in the name God gives Moses--I AM THAT I AM

hâyâh 'ăsher hâyâh (Exo 3:14)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 05:29:22 AM by Molly »

Michele

  • Guest
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2008, 05:48:40 AM »
willieH: Hi SG...  :mwink:

Enjoyed reading both your posts....Paul and Joyce. :bigGrin:  I agree that if it is real (in the sense of what we call "real")....it certainly means that there is a purpose for it.  I believe that God is above Reality (He is all Truth).  God is the creator of Reality. 

In response to the mention of H.G. Wells War of the Worlds... I've heard it said that just because something is classified as Fiction...it doesn't mean it's not true.  It just means it may not have happened yet.

I have thought this same thing Michelle... JESUS CHRIST died to redeem CREATION... if "aliens" do exist, then they are IN the CREATION... for the entire UNIVERSE and its ENTIRE CONTENTS, are subject to that Redemption and are in NEED of it...

"ALL THINGS" extends to and includes The UNIVERSE in its ENTIRETY...  :dontknow:

Quote
I've always loved the depiction of the aliens in the movie/story Contact.  They appear as highly evolved spiritual beings that have an enormous degree of love.....and much to teach us about Life, once we're ready.  Sounds much like angels IMO.

One of my FAVORITE Science fiction movies, written by ATHIEST Carl Sagan... I believe Carl was coming around to himself, in this final work...  :cloud9:

Quote
I remember in the show....the X-Files.....they always said, "The Truth is out there".  This is what I've thought for quite some time, but now I believe that the Truth is within.

Very true... that which is "out there" is everything in the NATURAL creation... and in that Natural creation, is found the OPPOSITE to the TRUTH... which is WITHIN...

"Out there" is just a tainted reflection of what is "IN THERE" and UNTAINTED...  :dontknow:

There just might be "aliens"... and there just might be a "war of the worlds" to come... before it is all over...  :mshock:

pEace...
...willieH  :boogie:

Enjoyed that post Willie! :bigGrin:  I bet the future holds some pretty far out stuff that would be hard for us to believe right now.....for intstance what if we begin to inhabit other planets.......as well as travel at the speed of thought...ie. think of the place and you're there (like beem me up Scotty!)  What if physical reality becomes a lot like what people have imagined the spiritual realm to be like.  I don't know....just some crazy thoughts. :happygrin:

Offline reFORMer

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 1943
  • Gender: Male
  • Psalm 133
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2008, 05:55:23 AM »
WHAT IT'S LIKE


I'm a prisoner in an alien body.  I've been exiled to a garbage planet where everybody dies.  I survived the 20th century, the darkest in their recorded history, where other inhabitants killed each other by the millions.  Yet they think they've made much progress beyond previous eras.

Their best hope surrounds the greatest human that ever lived who they killed.  He nevertheless overcame death and went into higher realms so can manifest in any of us as a door into God and incorruptible life.  Yet this has been mostly commercialized and taken over by a bureaucracy of deceived professionals who neither enter themselves nor allow anybody else to.

I've spent much time getting my mind and heart free from the sins against me in my early years here in the body of a child.  By re-reading many times the record God gave of His Son I'm getting free from religious indoctrination too, though many keep trying to get rid of that book.

They've hurt me, lied about me and even organized against me.  Whether they will kill me or not I don't know yet; but, I know I'll escape them and be completely free one day.  I'm going to be like my Father and none is greater than Him.


---James Rohde
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 07:14:56 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline willieH

  • Read Only
  • *
  • Posts: 2260
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Origins, Angels and Aliens"
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2008, 07:50:49 AM »
Gen 3:20  And Adam121 called7121 his wife's802 name8034 Eve;2332 because3588 she1931 was1961 the mother517 of all3605 living.2416


[she]"was"

H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.


hâyâh-- this is the same word that is in the name God gives Moses--I AM THAT I AM

hâyâh 'ăsher hâyâh (Exo 3:14)


Let me show you how it's done Molly:

I stand corrected...  :mblush:  ...after further research (I looked in a more detailed copy of Strongs), the word HAYAH is listed in Gen 3:20, and is generally translated WAS... or WAST... in the KJV...

pEace...
...willieH  :boogie:
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 08:36:42 AM by willieH »