Are the Wicked in Paradise?

[ded2daworld]

Always follow the money. The vatican is filled with very valuable works of art. Without a deal, the germans
(and this is what they should have done to win) could have waltzed right in and taken whatever they wanted and
then sold it to finance their efforts.

[marie glen]

THIS IS A LONG POST ON BIBLE PROPHECY, BUT PERHAPS SOMEONE MIGHT BE INTERESTED.

If we look in history, there were lots of wicked Popes who did wickedly. I think a lot of it wasn't religion so much as religion used for politics.

The Book of Revelation is a series of visions. The year 70A.D, surely? was the end of an age. And a new age began in earnest afterwards, becoming the latter age, the years of our Lord A.D. - So 70A.D. was also, "an end of the age".

We could also say the Book of Revelation is like a play.. a drama (the peak of God's drama proving good from evil / life from death) and the end or collapse (the finish) and unveiling of the empires of man and the bringing in and unveiling of the Kingdom of God.

Jerusalem, both in vision and upon earth represents the heavenly.. or more exactly, the Kingdom of God, yes, even in its imperfection during the ages of man. And BabbleOn is man's world, man's empires.. ever since the first Tower of man, Babel Tower (but alas after being separated by God's confusing the languages, the world once again is becoming one "and there shall be nothing beyond them" as God said as the reason for confusing the languages. Of course Tower Babel and Babylon of the world (which goes global, sits on seven hills/continents) will crash or collapse. Surely there will be an end to mankind's empires?

The huge angel who puts one foot on the sea and the other upon land is an angel John sees. This angel is announcing a section of vision (an act of the play/drama) which immediately follows his announcement. There are many angels which announce or declare certain things in the vision John was shown (by Jesus) on the Island of Patmos. They were seen by John, but not all of them are part of the vision of what will/does occur on planet Earth.

Revelation chapter 12 is one of four inserts. This (inserts) is one way the Book of Revelation is kept hidden or sealed for, well, quite a while. An insert like we see in an encyclopedia, used to expound or expand upon something.. like the creation of man and woman in Genesis 2 is an insert of the account in Genesis 1. Not an additional creation as some have said (although I haven't heard that one for a while).

If we read it carefully and follow cross references which come up, Revelation chapter 12, the woman (nations are sometimes by the prophets referred to as women). She has twelve stars around her head (kind of like a halo? but not? 12 tribes?) - She gives birth to a manchild (Son of man?).

The dragon tries to devour this manchild, son of man as soon as he is born (in the person of Herod when he had all the male babies of Bethlehem killed??)

But, the man child (Son of man?) is caught up to God and His Throne - Hebrew 1:3 (I believe it is) says Christ (after ascending) now sits at the right hand of God.

Rev 12 also says this manchild will "rule the nations with a rod of iron" (the law and principals of God which are actually un-breakable, which is what we humans are learning). Psalm 2 has a "rod of iron" cross reference - "thiS is the decree.. I have set My King upon Zion.. nations as His inheritence.. to the very ends of the earth.. and He will rule them with a rod of iron" verses 2-9?

What happens next? after the manchild is lifted up to the Throne of God?
The dragon (that old serpent) in a rage pursues. This is implied, as the woman who has the twelve stars around her head "flees" and thus we come to 70 A.D. and the razing of Jerusalem, the end of an age, and now the new wearer of the mantle, Christianity (with both Jews aNd Greeks/nonJews) flees/migrates. Largely where? Where for the most part did Christianity go and grow and take the most root first?

Next, there is war in heaven and the dragon and the 1/3 are now denied any further access to heaven. After Christ's crucifixion and resurrection, the battle is won, and half the battle won is manifested upon earth. Jesus overcame those old 'gods' and Christianity went forth conquering and to conquer, which it does to this very day.

After he is restricted from heaven / the heavens, the dragon is enraged and again pursues and persecutes and inquisitions the woman (now Christianity, the grafted into Israel).

Again the woman flees, a second migration, when she is given the wings of a mighty eagle that she may fly (sail?) to a new place where, tho of course not yet perfected by a long shot, she will be kept safe from the FACE of the dragon for 3 and 1/2 (I assume, modern divisions of time).

After this time, the serpent guise of the dragon, spews a flood of water after the woman (vomits after her) in order to wash her away from off the face of the earth (an explosion and proliferation of a previously hidden social phenomenon? 3 and 1/2 modern divisions ='s 350? is 1620 to 1970? Note, the greek word translated "harlot" is actually "pornos" and one of its meanings is "to sell" - free enterprise, become capitalism, embraces "pornos" and leads all the world astray, another "woman" albeit by this time a global one, but I guess that's another Bk of Rev topic.)

But! the earth helps the woman, and opens its mouth and swallows the flood which "the dragon" spewed after the woman. This verse, to me, strongly suggests drought in late days. Especially if we consider what Jesus said when women were weeping while He was carrying His cross to be crucified - "women weep not for me but for children's children, for if they will do this in a green leaf" (crucify Him) "what will they do in a DRY leaf??"

After this the dragon turns his attention back to the woman's other offspring, Israel. Note how Jesus had said "Jerusalem, Jerusalem.. you shall not see me again, until you say "blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD". ---After the flood is swallowed by the earth, the dragon turns his attention (back to) the other offspring of the woman, who have the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus - aka, by now, "hold to the testimony of Jesus"? Cross reference Rev 16, verse 14,15 and 16 - (14)spirits gathering the nations to Armageddon (15)Behold I am coming like a thief, unexpectedly, happy the one who stays awake (16)And they gathered together to the place in Hebrew called Harmageddon.

[Lazarus Short]

Well said, Marie, and I see little (if anything) to doubt or disagree with.

[misszoolander]

THIS IS A LONG POST ON BIBLE PROPHECY, BUT PERHAPS SOMEONE MIGHT BE INTERESTED.

If we look in history, there were lots of wicked Popes who did wickedly. I think a lot of it wasn't religion so much as religion used for politics.

The Book of Revelation is a series of visions. The year 70A.D, surely? was the end of an age. And a new age began in earnest afterwards, becoming the latter age, the years of our Lord A.D. - So 70A.D. was also, "an end of the age".

We could also say the Book of Revelation is like a play.. a drama (the peak of God's drama proving good from evil / life from death) and the end or collapse (the finish) and unveiling of the empires of man and the bringing in and unveiling of the Kingdom of God.

Jerusalem, both in vision and upon earth represents the heavenly.. or more exactly, the Kingdom of God, yes, even in its imperfection during the ages of man. And BabbleOn is man's world, man's empires.. ever since the first Tower of man, Babel Tower (but alas after being separated by God's confusing the languages, the world once again is becoming one "and there shall be nothing beyond them" as God said as the reason for confusing the languages. Of course Tower Babel and Babylon of the world (which goes global, sits on seven hills/continents) will crash or collapse. Surely there will be an end to mankind's empires?

The huge angel who puts one foot on the sea and the other upon land is an angel John sees. This angel is announcing a section of vision (an act of the play/drama) which immediately follows his announcement. There are many angels which announce or declare certain things in the vision John was shown (by Jesus) on the Island of Patmos. They were seen by John, but not all of them are part of the vision of what will/does occur on planet Earth.

Revelation chapter 12 is one of four inserts. This (inserts) is one way the Book of Revelation is kept hidden or sealed for, well, quite a while. An insert like we see in an encyclopedia, used to expound or expand upon something.. like the creation of man and woman in Genesis 2 is an insert of the account in Genesis 1. Not an additional creation as some have said (although I haven't heard that one for a while).

If we read it carefully and follow cross references which come up, Revelation chapter 12, the woman (nations are sometimes by the prophets referred to as women). She has twelve stars around her head (kind of like a halo? but not? 12 tribes?) - She gives birth to a manchild (Son of man?).

The dragon tries to devour this manchild, son of man as soon as he is born (in the person of Herod when he had all the male babies of Bethlehem killed??)

But, the man child (Son of man?) is caught up to God and His Throne - Hebrew 1:3 (I believe it is) says Christ (after ascending) now sits at the right hand of God.

Rev 12 also says this manchild will "rule the nations with a rod of iron" (the law and principals of God which are actually un-breakable, which is what we humans are learning). Psalm 2 has a "rod of iron" cross reference - "thiS is the decree.. I have set My King upon Zion.. nations as His inheritence.. to the very ends of the earth.. and He will rule them with a rod of iron" verses 2-9?

What happens next? after the manchild is lifted up to the Throne of God?
The dragon (that old serpent) in a rage pursues. This is implied, as the woman who has the twelve stars around her head "flees" and thus we come to 70 A.D. and the razing of Jerusalem, the end of an age, and now the new wearer of the mantle, Christianity (with both Jews aNd Greeks/nonJews) flees/migrates. Largely where? Where for the most part did Christianity go and grow and take the most root first?

Next, there is war in heaven and the dragon and the 1/3 are now denied any further access to heaven. After Christ's crucifixion and resurrection, the battle is won, and half the battle won is manifested upon earth. Jesus overcame those old 'gods' and Christianity went forth conquering and to conquer, which it does to this very day.

After he is restricted from heaven / the heavens, the dragon is enraged and again pursues and persecutes and inquisitions the woman (now Christianity, the grafted into Israel).

Again the woman flees, a second migration, when she is given the wings of a mighty eagle that she may fly (sail?) to a new place where, tho of course not yet perfected by a long shot, she will be kept safe from the FACE of the dragon for 3 and 1/2 (I assume, modern divisions of time).

After this time, the serpent guise of the dragon, spews a flood of water after the woman (vomits after her) in order to wash her away from off the face of the earth (an explosion and proliferation of a previously hidden social phenomenon? 3 and 1/2 modern divisions ='s 350? is 1620 to 1970? Note, the greek word translated "harlot" is actually "pornos" and one of its meanings is "to sell" - free enterprise, become capitalism, embraces "pornos" and leads all the world astray, another "woman" albeit by this time a global one, but I guess that's another Bk of Rev topic.)

But! the earth helps the woman, and opens its mouth and swallows the flood which "the dragon" spewed after the woman. This verse, to me, strongly suggests drought in late days. Especially if we consider what Jesus said when women were weeping while He was carrying His cross to be crucified - "women weep not for me but for children's children, for if they will do this in a green leaf" (crucify Him) "what will they do in a DRY leaf??"

After this the dragon turns his attention back to the woman's other offspring, Israel. Note how Jesus had said "Jerusalem, Jerusalem.. you shall not see me again, until you say "blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD". ---After the flood is swallowed by the earth, the dragon turns his attention (back to) the other offspring of the woman, who have the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus - aka, by now, "hold to the testimony of Jesus"? Cross reference Rev 16, verse 14,15 and 16 - (14)spirits gathering the nations to Armageddon (15)Behold I am coming like a thief, unexpectedly, happy the one who stays awake (16)And they gathered together to the place in Hebrew called Harmageddon.

I found it VERY interesting thanks for sharing ! 

[marie glen]

Folks, I'm confused.  I had gone along for years, like some kind of Pollyanna, thinking that by the end of the Bible account, everything was solved, justified, sanctified, glorified, and copacetic.  In my SDA years, I believed that after Death and Hell [the grave] have been cast into the LoF, after the New Jerusalem has come down, all is right with the world, the universe, man and God.  Furthermore, the problem of sin and evil had been resolved, and the Great Controversy between God and Satan had been settled in God's favor.  However, among the descriptions of thrones, rivers, fruits, pearly gates, and transparent gold, I got a shock the other day.

My wife and I have been going to the local United Methodist Church, largely because she wanted a church with a choir she could sing in.  So the other night, I was sitting in a pew by myself, and to pass the time I opened up the pew Bible and read the last few chapters of the Revelation.

I'm going to quote from The Unvarnished New Testament here, as it's one of my faves.  Here is what threw me:

[from the end of Chapter 21]  "And her gates are never shut...and they shall come bringing the honor and glory of all nations to her.  But nothing shall enter her that is polluted, nor anyone who commits abominations and lies:  only those who are written in the Book of Life of the Lamb."

Is that simply rhetorical and for emphasis to a sinful world, or are such people still around outside the City?

[more, from Chapter 22]  "Fortunate are those who wash their garments so they will have the right to the Tree of Life and go through the gates into the city.  Out with the low dogs and the practicers of magic and the promiscuous and the murderers and the idol-worshipers and everyone who approves or practices lying."

What are we to make of this?  Are the wicked still around and only barred from entry into the New Jerusalem?  Are the hinterlands still in sin??

..this is some verses, out of not very many, that I think of as (sort of) allegory, in that forever and always it is unbreakable law and principal (rod of iron) that to disagree with God the Creator and Father of aLL, in any teeny tiny thing or way simply cannot be done, for that places one outside of Life, which of course, is God. Hence to do so only leads to non-life and non being, thus it is with a rod of iron Jesus will rule the nations, after this proving of good from evil(live spelled backwards).