Author Topic: wild beast  (Read 6047 times)

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Offline jabcat

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2012, 11:33:31 AM »
Getting to your previous 2 posts, and including Molly's thoughts;

maybe it's all very simple, all very literal, all very easy to understand, and one can track it to know pretty much exactly what's going to happen.  If so, that's great.  I'm personally not able to do so (I haven't even watched the Left Behind Series!  :spank:   :winkgrin:)

now, to your a,b,c's..

a) agree, lot of transgression
b) agree, still sin
c) tentatively, would say yes, the cross fulfills c [although not everyone as yet reconciled TO God]
d) everyone and everything's not righteous yet, but Righteousness has come, and He's everlasting - so I'm not sure of the accurate meaning(s) of that verse - but I DON"T believe His knowledge and righteousness as yet "covers the earth as the waters cover the sea", or that He has as yet assumed position as All in All
e) ?
f) agree, Jesus was annointed, if that's what it's indeed referring to

Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2012, 11:42:25 AM »
Maybe they're all wrong.
Everybody who disagrees with me is wrong. But I could be wrong about that :P


Quote
The Lord's day - The first day of the week, observed as the Christian Sabbath, because on it Jesus Christ rose from the dead; therefore it was called the Lord's day, and has taken place of the Jewish Sabbath throughout the Christian world. Clarke's Commentary
So now it's not Last Supper but Sunday?
Well, also wrong. Imo Jesus was resurrected on a Jewish weekly Sabbath day (Friday 18:00-Saturday 18:00)

Quote
He calls it the Lord's day, which Paul calls the first day of the week; 1Co 16:2.  Geneva Study Bible
On the Lord's day - On this our Lord rose from the dead: on this the ancients believed he will come to judgment.
But, according to the same ancients, which day was it?


Quote
Wesley's Notes

on the Lord's day-Though forcibly detained from Church communion with the brethren in the sanctuary on the Lord's day, the weekly commemoration of the resurrection, John was holding spiritual communion with them. This is the earliest mention of the term, "the Lord's day."
But Lord's day "celebration' predates Jesus.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 11:45:40 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Online micah7:9

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2012, 08:53:39 PM »
Rev 1:1  A revelation (disclosure, revealing)of Jesus Christ,

Rev 19:10, those having the testimony(evidence) of Jesus; bow before God, for the testimony(evidence) of Jesus is the spirit of the prophecy.'

I do not believe the last book of the Bible is prophecy of what is to come, the book is revealing Jesus Christ in Spirit, in the "new creature," Gal 2:20  with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh--in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me;
Rev 1:10  I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day
Heb 3:7  Wherefore, (as the Holy Spirit saith, `To-day, if His voice ye may hear--
Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ yesterday and to-day the same, and to the ages;

The book is revealing Christ in you-me the true worshipers...Col 1:26  the secret that hath been hid from the ages and from the generations, but now was manifested to his saints,
Col 1:27  to whom God did will to make known what is the riches of the glory of this secret among the nations--which is Christ in you, the hope of the glory,

It has been comforting to me and He keeps me out of the world's turmoils and current events, He reassures me He has in hand on the pulse of all the goings on....that is Good News.
There maybe a small amount that will have a literal out come, and I am assured He will reveal that in his time to those who have ears to hear.

Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline sheila

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2012, 09:55:06 PM »
SEEING THROUGH THE EYES OF FAITH,NOT APPEARANCES


    A.FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION='IT IS FINISHED'

   B MAKE AN END OF SINS=BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD

  C TO MAKE RECONCILIATION=BECOME RECONCILED TO GOD THROUGH CHRIST

   D BRING IN EVER-LASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS= THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD THROUGH CHRIST,CHRIST OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS

  ESEAL UP VISION AND PROPHECY= TRANSLATION VISION-TELL NO MAN

  F   ANOINT THE MOST HOLY- STAY IN JERUSALEM UNTIL THE PROMISE OF THE FATHER  LUKE 24;49


   WALKING BY6 FAITH WE KNOW.........DOES THE GREAT MASSES OF MANKIND THAT REMAINS IGNORANT TO THESE THINGS

  NULLIFY THE WORK OF THE FATHER AND SON?..NO

 LUKE 17;20  THE KINGDOM OF GOD DOES NOT COME WITH YOUR CAREFUL OBSERVATION,NOR WILL PEOPLE SAY

  HERE IT IS,OR THERE IT IS...BECAUSE THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU[AS A SEED OF FAITH IN WHAT GOD AND THE SON HAVE DONE]

Online micah7:9

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2012, 04:13:34 AM »
I know it's just me, but I just never get the gist of some posts. Just who is the WILD BEAST? I mean can we find a common ground, I know the truth of inter weaving literal and the spirit causes, lets say shudder, but lets step forward with some real summations. I for one have grown VERY weary of religious dogma and rhetoric. :sigh: :Chinscratch:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2012, 07:12:41 AM »
Well, anyone who disagrees with my point of view and repeats it is guilty of religious dogma and rhetoric HAHAHAHAH :LH:

Really, the simple truth is that we don't kno. Day has dawned, when will it reach "HIGH NOON?" We just don't get it. The times and the seasons which are in the Father's domain are not for us to know(specificly) we watch for the signs of the times and we get caught up(the wrong way) because we don't realize the "Full Noon" only exists where the body is one in the spirit as one soul. The beast, could be like the harlot Babylon riding kingdoms through time, manifesting here and there over this kingdom or that- perhaps manifesting in a final earthly kingdom that will fall in one hour, perhaps not. But the DAY is in the TABERNACLE where there is no need of sun or moon(natural light) because the Lamb is its Lamp and God is the light in the midst of it, He WALKS AMONG THE LAMPSTANDS, He TRIES THE REIGNS AND The HEARTS, He says, let the one who has ear to hear, hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

"Sorry", 300 preterists said to the 300 literalists when the DAY finally awakened them, "We thought it was all over and missed it happening". "Sorry" said the 300 literalists to the 300 preterists, "We thought it had not begun yet, and missed it happening as well".

In every age their are fulfillments in measure of these "aionian" truths. When the age is finally, really, coming to a close, we will see it "happening" in the streets and the nations because Jesus is going to be Head over all things to His church BEFORE the end comes. Buckle up kids, this ride has barely begun :o)

"And those who lead the many to righteousness will shine like the stars"  "And those who kno their God will Be STRONG AND DO EXPLOITS".

"And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death. "For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time."
(Rev 12:11-12)
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Offline Molly

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2012, 07:34:59 AM »
Amen!

Offline eaglesway

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2012, 07:48:00 AM »
GLLLOOORY!!!
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Online micah7:9

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2012, 05:41:11 AM »
 :sigh:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline thinktank

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2012, 07:44:55 AM »
(7) the Anglo-American dual world power.


There has been times of persecution in both these countries, but nevertheless both have been the fortress and home of Christianity and Jews. The prophets also prophecy great things coming from both these nations.



Offline eaglesway

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2012, 07:54:18 AM »
He that lead into captivity shall go into captivity: he that kill with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
(Rev 13:10)



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Offline thinktank

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2012, 08:05:45 AM »
He that lead into captivity shall go into captivity: he that kill with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
(Rev 13:10)










does that rule out self defence?

First time i have read it differently that it sounds like only those who are the persecuter gets the sword, rather than those who defend themselves.


Offline ded2daworld

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2012, 03:23:47 PM »
Self defence sure wasn't ruled out in old testament times. All able men were soldiers when being attacked.
True, God didn't allow David (a man after God's own heart) to build the temple because David was bloodthirsty, but I don't think it was because David killed others (his enemies). I think it was because God saw Davids heart and saw that David kinda enjoyed the killing. :2c:
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline eaglesway

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2012, 07:19:58 AM »
I was actually speaking of the captivity of the spirit and using the sword of the word to kill, but if anyone asks, I believe in self-defense in general- altho our Lord did not defend Himself, so I can see God leading me to not defend myself.
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Offline eaglesway

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2012, 07:46:49 AM »
At Revelation 13:3, it says concerning one of the "heads", that "I saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke got healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration." Which "head" or world power was this ? Since the time period for the book of Revelation is mostly during "the Lord's day" (Rev 1:10), which began with Jesus installation as king of God's kingdom in 1914, then the last "head" is the one that is in existence during this time and therefore controlling the "wild beast".

And since, the world powers of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome have long disappeared, then it has to be the "seventh" or final world power of human history - the Anglo-American dual world power - that came into existence when the United States "joined hands" with Britain during World War I. From that point forward, they have played a significant role in world events, such as forming and backing the League of Nations that came to exist in 1920 as well as the United Nations in 1945.

As a result of the heavy toll of World War I, of the loss of men and materials, as well as the pandemic of the Spanish Flu (in which epidemiologists estimate perhaps as many as 100 million people world wide may have died during 1918-19 pandemic) this made the Anglo-American world power seem as if it had been "slaughtered to death". This "death-stroke" or "sword-stroke"(Rev 13:14) also had an impact throughout the earth, deeply affecting Satan's political "wild beast", all the political governments on the earth.

However, "its death-stroke got healed", recovering over time from the economic strain as well as the loss of men, to attain to world renown status, leading the way politically so that "all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration." The "dollar" of the United States became the currency that has dominated the world markets.

Because of this, "they (all the earth) worshiped the dragon because it gave the authority to the wild beast, and they worshiped the wild beast with the words: "Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?" (Rev 13:4) Hence, Satan the Devil receives the worship he wants by means of his creation of the "wild beast", though the vast majority of mankind are unaware that they are, in effect, worshipping Satan by pledging allegiance to their respective nation's flags. They are unaware that it is Satan that is pulling "the puppet strings" of the nations through the various demons under his control.(see Dan 10:13, 20)

Satan delegates authority to the wild beast, and he does this on a nationalistic basis. Thus, instead of being united in bonds of godly love, mankind has become divided by pride of tribe, race, and nation. The great majority of people worship, in effect, that part of the wild beast (the entire political arrangement of the world) having authority in the land where they happen to live. Thus the whole beast gains admiration and worship, putting love of country ahead of love of God, giving blind devotion to their country's nationalistic interests. These extoll it and as if saying: "Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?"

There is certainly NO HISTORIC record that would indicate that the United States suffered anything like a "death stroke" in the early 20th century- this is a real reach, almost like an alternate reality fiction by Eric Lustbader. The United States and Britain delivered the "death stroke" to Germany- one could even hypothesize that Hitler's Germany was the the resurrected beast and it would make more sense that the United States and Britain.
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Offline reFORMer

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2012, 09:21:26 AM »
A "wild beast" is in other words, an "unrestrained creature."  Though a man-made creature, the internet/computer, possibly including certain software, is unrestrained.

Consider also how it is, or can be, "full of eyes."

(I'm not setting anything in stone.  It's only meant to be suggestive.)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 09:26:04 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

goodreport

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2012, 04:14:17 PM »
A "wild beast" is in other words, an "unrestrained creature."  Though a man-made creature, the internet/computer, possibly including certain software, is unrestrained.

Consider also how it is, or can be, "full of eyes."

(I'm not setting anything in stone.  It's only meant to be suggestive.)

Very interesting suggestion on computer/internet...

another suggestion :  computer/internet=end times Tower of Babel

and reminds me of:

Hab 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Hab 3:18-19 AMP
18  Yet I will rejoice in the Lord; I will exult in the victorious God of my salvation.
19  The Lord God is my Strength, my personal bravery, and my invincible army;  He makes my feet like hinds' feet and will make me to walk [not to stand still in terror, but to walk] and make [spiritual] progress upon my high places [of trouble, suffering or responsibility]!


============

Rev 13:5-6
5  ...there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies...
6  and he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.


like everything man has created there is good and evil... oh to be able to discern the good and avoid the evil of all that is made available on the internet!!!!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 06:00:58 PM by goodreport »

Offline eaglesway

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2012, 09:15:20 PM »
IMO, Paul speaks as if nothing is evil in itself, but rather, as man's imagination is evil, innocent things, even helpful good things, become endowed with the power to accomplish evil in the hands of self-centered people.
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Offline marie glen

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2013, 12:34:55 AM »
Who is or could be the wild beast in the Book of Revelation 13?

"Beasts" in Bible prophecy, from what I gather are human governings, or governments. I've heard this "wild beasts" as interpreted as literal wild beasts in late days consuming people.. but I believe it's a way of saying wild governments. This is in the description of the 4th horse and rider of the apocalypse, which "the grave" follows after him, and what he has (this pale horse and rider) is plagues and pestilence (including surely? chemical, and when all is said and done, this fourth galloping/progressing element of the latter age (the years of our Lord, A.D.) kills 1/4 of the earth.
- Included with "the grave" which follows after this one, is the mass grave.
"Wild government(s)" - terrorists? Jihadists?  :2c:
~ ~ ~
Where does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (the 2nd) during age of Judgment, there's sure to be weeping and wailing & for those habitual despisers of God, gnashing of teeth--who may make their way to LOF
~Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process??
~ ~ ~
The historist elements in the Bk of Rev shed light on the futurist! (Like13:13, same as, 6:12-17, but both  begin/historist & end/futurist r described here so early! a clever lock; & parts of ch12-hist; ch's 10,12,13 = inserts)
~imo we are at 7:1 a pause of 6:12/splitting of atom

Offline reFORMer

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2013, 07:21:46 AM »
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
a. to finish the transgression, and
b. to make an end of sins, and
c. to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
d. to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
e. to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
f. to anoint the most Holy.

a] I just have to take a quick look at the front page of any newspaper and I see a lot of transgression.
b] See a.
c] That could be fullfilled by crucifixion.
d] See a. The rightousness hasn't arrive yet.
e] That could point to Revelation.
f] Jesus was anointed. Sorry for the Trinity reference James but I think Father and not Son is the most Holy.

Also note THY people and city. It's only about Jerusalem and the Jews. I think nobody will be able to convince me that there is really peace in Jerusalem.
Jews are still rejecting Jesus.
There is no Jewish Temple but a mosque (sp?)

All-in-all it doesn't sound very completed to me. Parts, maybe. Everything, nope.

It's talking about Jesus, what He did.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Online micah7:9

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2013, 08:08:26 AM »
You all don't even have a idea about the wild beast, sad. :2c:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2013, 08:28:21 AM »
The Wild Beast is the animal impulses of the flesh.  Food, covering, reproduction...

The False Prophet
is the religious mind of the flesh.

The Devil is the originating identity of the flesh.  This is the father of the carnal nature.

These three entities are the only things clearly said by the Bible to be in the Lake of Fire.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2013, 08:38:24 AM »
You all don't even have a idea about the wild beast, sad. :2c:

Some of us do, and this thread seems to be beating around the bush. 

First off, the wild beast harks back to the Book of Daniel.
The leopard, bear, and lion resemblances take us back to Daniel 7:3-6.
The seven heads and ten crowns take us to Daniel 7:7-8.

But what is it?
My sojourn with the SDA church was instructive, for there were many seminars on the Revelation, and books about it, which I studied a lot.  My main reference was/is Unfolding the Revelation by Roy Allan Anderson.  This book goes into quite a bit of depth, and I agree with most of it.  However, I do not want to step on any toes here, and the book, overall, and in its coverage of Rev. 13, is NOT kind to Papal Rome. 

Am I in violation of T&C if I continue in this vein?  Mods, please advise...
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 07:06:06 PM by Lazarus Short »
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline lomarah

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2013, 04:26:58 PM »
The Wild Beast is the animal impulses of the flesh.  Food, covering, reproduction...

The False Prophet
is the religious mind of the flesh.

The Devil is the originating identity of the flesh.  This is the father of the carnal nature.

These three entities are the only things clearly said by the Bible to be in the Lake of Fire.

Wow! Very succinct and well presented!  :thumbsup:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: wild beast
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2013, 04:41:15 PM »
You all don't even have a idea about the wild beast, sad. :2c:

Some of us do, and this thread seems to be beating around the bush. 

First off, the wild beast harks back to the Book of Daniel.
The leopard, bear, and lion resemblances take us back to Daniel 1:3-6.
The seven heads and ten crowns take us to Daniel 1:7-8.

But what is it?
My sojourn with the SDA church was instructive, for there were many seminars on the Revelation, and books about it, which I studied a lot.  My main reference was/is Unfolding the Revelation by Roy Allan Anderson.  This book goes into quite a bit of depth, and I agree with most of it.  However, I do not want to step on any toes here, and the book, overall, and in its coverage of Rev. 13, is NOT kind to Papal Rome. 

Am I in violation of T&C if I continue in this vein?  Mods, please advise...

I think you're ok