Author Topic: Tribulation Temple?  (Read 1103 times)

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Stephen

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Tribulation Temple?
« on: May 27, 2009, 11:03:18 PM »
Jesus refers to the holy "place" and says that there must be correct understanding of what He is saying. He does not say the "temple", but refers to the holy "place" [Matthew 24:15]

Pronunciation Guide
topos {top'-os}
TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 8:187,1184
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) place, any portion or space marked off, as it were from surrounding space
2) an inhabited place, as a city, village, district
3) a place (passage) in a book

Pronunciation Guide
anaginosko {an-ag-in-oce'-ko}
TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 1:343,55
from 303 and 1097
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to distinguish between, to recognise, to know accurately, to acknowledge
2) to read

Pronunciation Guide
noeo {no-eh'-o}
TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 4:948,636
from 3563
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to perceive with the mind, to understand, to have understanding
2) to think upon, heed, ponder, consider

The Place of the Lord's Sanctuary
Daniel's visions reference the same place at the time of the end. [Daniel 8:11, 8:13]


Pronunciation Guide
makown {maw-kone'}
TWOT Reference Root Word
TWOT - 964c
from 03559
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) fixed or established place, foundation
2) fixed place
3) foundation

Pronunciation Guide
miqdash {mik-dawsh'}
TWOT Reference Root Word
TWOT - 1990f
from 06942
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) sacred place, sanctuary, holy place
2) of the temple
3) of the tabernacle
4) of Ezekiel's temple
5) of Jehovah

The temple of the man of lawlessness
Paul's reference to the man of lawlwssness and the temple he will sit in. [2Thessolonians 2:4]


Pronunciation Guide
naos {nah-os'}
TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 4:880,625
from a primary naio (to dwell)
Outline of Biblical Usage

1) used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of gold was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure)

2) any heathen temple or shrine

3) metaph. the spiritual temple consisting of the saints of all ages joined together by and in Christ


I would suggest that one consider the possibility of the holy place referred to in the setting of the 70th week is the temple mount area and not a re-built edifice (temple). The actual temple was destroyed in the first century and is no longer there. It is possible that the man of lawlessness will sit in the temple of his god, showing that he is god. There are no instructions contained in Scripture to re-build a temple for the Lord before He establishes His millennial Kingdom. There are instructions for re-building in this future time frame. [Ezekiel 40-48]

It is possible that something could be re-built by the Jews to be in place during the 70th week. It is also possible that the current setting of the temple mount only may be in view. If so, then we may be closer to the Lord's return than some think. The current situation in the Middle East is not conducive to placing a Jewish temple on the mount and if current events move directly into the 70th week, then it is unlikely for re-building to take place during the Lord's hour of trial.

The temple is seen in Revelation several times during the tribulation on earth, but it is God's temple in heaven and not one on the earth. In fact, the outer court of the temple mount on the earth is "without" God's temple (there will be a temple there that is not God's and the man of lawlessness will sit in it) and the mount (holy place) will be trampled (controlled) by the little horn and his followers during his 42 month rule. [Revelation 11:1-2, 11:19, 14:15-17, 15:5-8, 16:17]

The first 1,260 days will include Satan's bid for control over the earth through his agents and followers. This period will be an extreme time of devastation and destruction including the fall of the "great city" of the Gentiles (nations) and the release of millions of Satan's angelic hosts. The Lord will continue to harbor (protect) national Israel from invasion and occupation (this has been the case since 1948 up to this day) until just before midweek. Satan's pawns will then be in position without opposition to invade, occupy, and add the Holy Land, Jerusalem, and the temple mount area to his dominion.


Offline reFORMer

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Re: Tribulation Temple?
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2009, 11:18:43 PM »

None of the Hebrew Scriptures are later than the Babylonish captivity and during Israel and Judea's return from it, though some think Malachi was a little later.  The prophecies about rebuilding the temple were made before the building of the Restoration Temple as they were returning from captivity.  This temple was being worked on with the help of Herod for 40 years and was known as Herods's Temple in the days that Jesus walked here in His body of humiliation before the cross, resurrection and ascension.  He quoted from Ezekiels prophecy about the temple as recorded by John in the following:

John 7:37-39 (CLV)...
37 Now on the last, the great day of the festival, Jesus stood and cries, saying, "If anyone should be thirsting, let him come to Me and drink.
38 He who is believing in Me, according as the scripture said, out of his bowel shall gush rivers of living water."
39 Now this He said concerning the spirit which those believing in Him were about to get. For not as yet was holy spirit given, for Jesus is not as yet glorified.
This was the 7th or 8th day of the Feast of Tabernacles.  Much abou that could be said.  There was for instance a daily pouring out under the altar

While Psalm 46:4; Proverbs 11:25, 18:4; Zechariah 8:14 have some application, it seems to me that where "the Scripture said," this that Jesus was referring to is epitomized by Ezekiel 47:1-12.  This means God's explantion of the Temple of Ezekiel, according to Jesus' words at the feast, interpreting the words of the vision of the prophet, is a spiritual reality concerning the believing people of God.  The Mercy Throne in th Holy of Holies is in you and the water or the Holy Spirit is flowing out from there into you and the world.  While this prophecy was before the Restoration Temple, some say it is talking about another temple not yet built.

Originally, what the real thing was that Moses saw in the mount and explained, Bezazlael made according to the pattern and Aaron received for the people.  What Moses saw was surely much superior to what was build in the earth.  Similarly we could argue Ezekiel's vision was superior to what was built.  Beyond that, as mentioned, Jesus decribes the meaning of the Temple.

It should be mentioned also that what Ezekiel describes would on the side nearest the sea be halfway to the sea it is so big and Jerusalem would be bigger than the land of Israel.  This temple wouldn't fit on Mt Moriah.  If there is another temple built in Jerusalem it is in defiance of the ultimate Revelation of God in Jesus the Lamb of God.  In the Book of Hebrews it describes that as trampling underfoot the blood of Christ as a thing unholy and enraging the Spirit of Grace.  It could be part of the "working of a strong delusion to believe a lie," for how would even many Christians view it?
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Stephen

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Re: Tribulation Temple?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2009, 11:51:56 PM »
Ezekiel's vision is of the Lord's millennial temple that will be built upon the earth [Ezekiel 40-48]

There will be no tribulation temple on the mount just as Revelation 11 tells

The temple in this passage is the Lord's temple in heaven as seen during the tribulation period

The mount on the earth will have no temple of the Lord's just as it does not today .... Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount will be overrun and controlled by the little horn and his followers for 42 months [second 1,260 days of the 70th week]

The Lord said that not one stone standing on the ground would be left of the ancient temple, it still is the same today  .... and will be during the tribulation period

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Tribulation Temple?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2009, 08:18:01 AM »
Personally I don't know if they'll ever build something or not before the obvious rule of the saints is manifestly reigning in all the earth, after which point it would be self-evident to anyone interested as not only useless, but in the way.  If they do build a temple and reinstitute sacrifices it will be trampling underfoot the blood of the new covenant as an unclean thing.  It could be central to great deception, but then I'm imagining without any clear certainty.  The possibility is Jerusalem will be bombed into oblivion before they get an opportunity.

Stephen said: "Ezekiel's vision is of the Lord's millennial temple that will be built upon the earth [Ezekiel 40-48]"

The point in what I wrote was that Ezekiel's vision was before the Babylonian captivity.  Just as Moses tabernacle was only a shadow built according to pattern of the vision of the real he saw in the mount, so what Ezekiel saw could have been the template for what became known as Herod's temple, though again, much inferior to what the Divine vision revealed.  However, the fact that it is a vision is of great significance.

One problem is that Jesus seems to have given an interpretation of that temple which represents those who believe in Him out of whose innermost chamber flows forth the river of the water of life.

A big problem, examined several centuries ago by Lightfoot (Description of Temple, pp.5, 6.  Ed. 1650) is "the wall that encompassed the holy ground, according to our English measure, it will amount to half a mile and about 166 yards.  And whosoever likewise will measure the square of Ez 42:20, he will find it six times as large as this, the whole amounting to three miles and a half and about 140 yards---a compass incomparably greater than Mt Moriah divers times over...Ezekiels Temple is delineated larger than all the earthly Jerusalem, and his Jerusalem larger than all the land of Canaan.  And thereby the scope of the Holy Spirit in that ichnography is clearly held out to be, to signify the great enlarging of the spiritual Jerusalem and temple, the Church under the Gospel, the spiritual beauty and glory of it,---as well as to certify captived Israel of hopes of an earthly city and temple to be rebuilt; which came to paass upon the return under Cyrus."

In this passage (Ez 40-48) references to "the city" mean the holy ground given for the prince, the priests and the Levites connected to the rest of the city.  Ancient Jerusalem occupied only about 2 1/2 miles in circumference; but, in Ezekiel's Vision  the temple occupies about twice as much and the whole city occupies a space of 3 to 4 thousand square miles.  By comparison, modern Los Angeles occupies only about 400 square miles.  It seems apparent (for this and other particulars of the text not here enumerated) that a slavish adherence to understanding this Visionary's words to be speaking of only the physical realm is untenable.  To insist on it in the face of the evidence is to be brutish and unimformed concerning spiritual things.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 07:31:26 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Stephen

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Re: Tribulation Temple?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2009, 02:33:47 PM »
Reformer,

There will be no tribulation temple of the Lord's on the mount [the court "without" the temple in contrast with His heavenly temple as Revelation 11 tells], there are no instructions in scripture to build it and the Lord would not recognize it as His in the first place .... He has already said that there would not be one stone standing .... and there will not be .... the ancient temple is gone

But there will be one built for His millennial reign on the earth over mortals and this is presented in Ezekiel 40-48 along with all that will take place then including national Israel's position in the kingdom .... His call, and His dealing with the mortals of His coming millennium

We must take the Lord at His word and know of His future intents .... these things are going to happen .... He has not changed His course ... and He has not recorded these thing in His Word for naught
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 02:35:52 PM by Stephen »

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Tribulation Temple?
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2009, 07:17:14 AM »
I have added the following elaboration to my post #  above:
In this passage (Ez 40-48) references to "the city" mean the holy ground given for the prince, the priests and the Levites connected to the rest of the city.  Ancient Jerusalem occupied only about 2 1/2 miles in circumference; but, in Ezekiel's Vision  the temple occupies about twice as much and the whole city occupies a space of 3 to 4 thousand square miles.  By comparison, modern Los Angeles occupies only about 400 square miles.
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The opinion that, in accordance with the will of God, there will be built a "Millennial Temple" not only has no statement of Scripture to make it necessary, but it specially slights Jesus' own interpretation of Ezekiel's Temple Vision, that belief in Him constitutes us as that temple from which flows the river of the water of Life, the holy Spirit of God Himself.  Therefore it seems safe to say it reveals a failure to apprehend the nature of the never to be superseded New Covenant, that God permanently indwells the temple of His own choosing:  a many membered Christ.

Moses, David, Solomon, Ezekiel (in captivity,) Ezra...from here on I find it difficult to number because should the following be consecutively two or one? Jesus (Jn 2:19-21, "...He spake of the temple of His body",) in mankind (1 Co 6:19, "know ye not that your body is the temple,") and this could be called "The New Jerusalem" (Hb 12:22; Rv 21:2) where the Lamb is the Temple...then, can we count when God is the all in all?  I count seven or eight Temples in this list.  There is definitely a progress from shadow to substance.  The carnal mind seems to think an understanding of words to mean a physical artifact is substantial, while spiritual reality is relegated to the symbolic and considered insubstantial.  This error caused Jesus' disciples to leave Him, except for His chosen twelve, when he spoke of the necessity of eating His flesh and drinking His blood.  Some have martyred the flesh of God for denying this carnality, still making it imperative for true faith; that Jesus, on the night in which He was betrayed, did eat Himself.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Tribulation Temple?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2009, 02:57:39 AM »
What temple did Ezekiel see?

"The one not built by human hands, and we are the living stones."

Enjoyed the posts, Reformer!