Author Topic: The Day Of The Lord  (Read 10072 times)

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Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2009, 09:20:52 PM »
The readers will decide for themselves

Offline willieH

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2009, 09:23:28 PM »
The passage that you quote is directed specifically at national Israel given in the context of Isaiah's rendering

I would suggest that you might be one who has been sent delusion, as you say others must be, and you may want to check out the pride factor for yourself as well .... this attribute will get in your way

You should seriously consider your position of limitation on complete, congruent, and correct rendering of the scriptures

The scriptures are written to be studied and fully understood by those who diligently and honestly seek the Lord's involvement in the process of interpreting His Word

This is a cop-out...

2 Tim 3:16-17 ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of GOD, and ...IS PROFITABLE... for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in Righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto good works...

This Scripture noted by Doug... is profitable not just as specifically "directed at National Israel"... but to the INDIVIDUAL that is seeking truth in all matters...

For a student which proudly claims to have ALL LEARNING and COMPREHENSIVE -- complete understanding... you don't appear to "understand" much bro...  :dontknow:

Many holes have already been pointed out in that "understanding"...  :yes:  more to come...   :dontknow:

...willieH  :cloud9:

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2009, 09:28:45 PM »
"For a student which proudly claims to have ALL LEARNING and COMPREHENSIVE -- complete understanding... you don't appear to "understand" much bro"

>People have opinions

>The readers will decide

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2009, 09:34:45 PM »
The Day of the Lord will come suddenly and without warning to earth dwellers

1Thessalonians
5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Matthew
24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation
6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 09:39:59 PM by Stephen »

Offline willieH

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2009, 09:37:47 PM »
willieH: Hi Stephen... :hithere:

The readers will decide for themselves

Yes, indeed they will!   :laughing7:

When JESUS was challenged by the Pharisees, He did not ignore... He responded... and it was the Pharisees which went silent... as His response, stood upon TRUTH.

You are unable to meet challenge, which serves to display that your "understanding's", are likely built upon sand... For if they TRULY stood upon the ROCK... they would EASILY stand against scrutiny and questioning...

Thus far, ...your "understandings" have been shown inadaquate and incomplete...

As I said earlier... there are learned people here, which have dedicated themselves to MUCH research, and which do not open up their conversations by "patting themselves on the back", as you have as you marched into Tentmaker...

Yes brother Stephen... the "readers" will decide...  :wink1:

...willieH  :cloud9:

Offline willieH

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2009, 09:45:31 PM »
willieH: Hi Stephen...  :cloud9:

"For a student which proudly claims to have ALL LEARNING and COMPREHENSIVE -- complete understanding... you don't appear to "understand" much bro"

>People have opinions

>The readers will decide

More than "opinion" has been presented to you... Scripture as well as LOGIC (reasoning - which the LORD invites us to do -- Isaiah 1:18) has been presented to refute your "understandings", to which you have FAILED and continue to FAIL to respond...  :pitiful:

Your "understandings" are just that bro, ..."yours"...  :laughing7: ...and the fallacies they propose, have nothing to do with the TRUTH of the WORD...

Such as "FALLEN ANGELIC's"    :sigh:

...willieH  :cloud9:

Livelystone

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2009, 10:25:18 PM »
The passage that you quote is directed specifically at national Israel given in the context of Isaiah's rendering

I would suggest that you might be one who has been sent delusion, as you say others must be, and you may want to check out the pride factor for yourself as well .... this attribute will get in your way

You should seriously consider your position of limitation on complete, congruent, and correct rendering of the scriptures

The scriptures are written to be studied and fully understood by those who diligently and honestly seek the Lord's involvement in the process of interpreting His Word
 

And what did Paul say......... that those things that happened unto Israel are allegories and are given to us for our edification..........

Israel is a metaphor of the church....... it is even called to be the church in the wilderness and that is why they produced good figs and bad figs.......... just like the church does where the good are called out and the bad ones remain in the wildeness where they are taught by satan

That is why that even though they did enter into the promise land Paul spoke of them as having not entered into because it is about the church

You need to get off your kick about Israel............ that temple that Jesus said that was His body that would be built again in three days is that part of the church that obeys the command of Jesus to come out of Babylon that is the church in bondage to false worship just like Israel was. Those who come will become that temple and at their manifestation they are the second coming of Christ

The male child coming out from the woman (who is in the wilderness being nourished (fed) from the face of the serpent (satan) because the clergy has become the tail of the dragon whom has been teaching the church for the last 1900 years since "he who letteth let be taken out of the way) is who comes out of the church no longer being fed by the serpent and like John is called up to heaven to sit at the feet of Jesus and learn directly from Him

Do some searching on the dragon and the tail............ and then come out of Babylon

Blessings

Doug




Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2009, 10:31:23 PM »
"Israel is a metaphor of the church"

>Not according to the Lord's own words

>Your replacement theology is not compatible with the scriptures

Isaiah
11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

11:13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.

11:14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

11:15 And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.

11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

Jeremiah
30:1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,

30:2 Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.

30:3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

30:4 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.

30:5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.

30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

30:8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:

30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

30:10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.

30:11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

30:12 For thus saith the LORD, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.

30:13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.

30:14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.

30:15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.

30:16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.

30:17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the LORD; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.

30:18 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.

30:19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.

30:20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.

30:21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD.

30:22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

30:23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.

30:24 The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.

Ezekiel
36:1 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:

36:2 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:

36:3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:

36:4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;

36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

36:6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:

36:7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.

36:8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

36:9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

36:10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

36:11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

36:12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

36:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:

36:14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

36:18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

36:33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

36:37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.

36:38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Micah
5:1 Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.

5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

5:5 And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

5:6 And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.

5:7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.

5:8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

5:9 Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.

5:10 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots:

5:11 And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strong holds:

5:12 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers:

5:13 Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

5:14 And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee: so will I destroy thy cities.

5:15 And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.

Zechariah
14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.



« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 10:49:45 PM by Stephen »

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2009, 10:47:25 PM »
"Israel is a metaphor of the church"

>Not according to Paul's understanding

Romans
11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

Livelystone

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2009, 10:54:51 PM »
How about quoting the verses that "israelites" are descended by law and we are by the seed that is Christ that was the faith that got righteousness imputed to Abraham ........ or is it convenient to ignore them?

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2009, 11:02:00 PM »
"How about quoting the verses that "israelites" are descended by law and we are by the seed that is Christ that was the faith that got righteousness imputed to Abraham ........ or is it convenient to ignore them?"

>Gentiles are included in matters of personal salvation only without regard to ethnic lineage

>The Church is one thing ..... the nation of Israel is another

>Your replacement theology is not compatible with the scriptures

>All of the various replacement theologies ignore this biblical truth
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 11:06:24 PM by Stephen »

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2009, 11:27:55 PM »
Matthew 5:9

Livelystone

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #62 on: May 26, 2009, 11:40:52 PM »
"How about quoting the verses that "israelites" are descended by law and we are by the seed that is Christ that was the faith that got righteousness imputed to Abraham ........ or is it convenient to ignore them?"

>Gentiles are included in matters of personal salvation only without regard to ethnic lineage

>The Church is one thing ..... the nation of Israel is another

>Your replacement theology is not compatible with the scriptures

>All of the various replacement theologies ignore this biblical truth

Replacement theology ?

LOL

Look what the Bible says about Israel when speaking of Moses who was a shadow of the Christ to come

Acts 7:38
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

You have a strong tendency to ignore passages in the Bible................. God is not the one who is encouraging you to do so



Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #63 on: May 26, 2009, 11:56:39 PM »
You are scripture picking by ignoring context and I would suggest that you engage in a more comprehensive study of the Lord's Word

UR is a replacement theology and another gospel for sure that does not line up with the scriptures of the Bible by any measure

This total concept is a falsehood and an example of behavior that Jesus Christ would come by those coming in His name and deceiving many in the process

Let's not debate your religion .... this you must deal with this issue yourself 

Livelystone

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #64 on: May 27, 2009, 12:01:56 AM »
You are scripture picking by ignoring context and I would suggest that you engage in a more comprehensive study of the Lord's Word

UR is a replacement theology and another gospel for sure that does not line up with the scriptures of the Bible by any measure

This total concept is a falsehood and an example of behavior that Jesus Christ would come by those coming in His name and deceiving many in the process

Let's not debate your religion .... this you must deal with this issue yourself 

Stephen...........

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:



Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #65 on: May 27, 2009, 12:20:55 AM »
All scripture ..... believe this

Offline jabcat

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #66 on: May 27, 2009, 12:26:50 AM »
You are scripture picking by ignoring context and I would suggest that you engage in a more comprehensive study of the Lord's Word

UR is a replacement theology and another gospel for sure that does not line up with the scriptures of the Bible by any measure

This total concept is a falsehood and an example of behavior that Jesus Christ would come by those coming in His name and deceiving many in the process

 

OK, that's your opinion.  I disagree, but that's between each of us and God. 
1) Did you ever answer if you believe you personally completely understand all scripture?  If you did, I missed it. 

2) Do you believe you could yet have some truths revealed to you?  Please answer this, if I missed it earlier, just let me know.  I've been kind of busy.

3) Also, so do you believe in eternal torment and the mistranslations of 'hell'?  That God's punishments are something different than corrective?

« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 12:35:00 AM by jabcat »
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Livelystone

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #67 on: May 27, 2009, 12:36:20 AM »
All scripture ..... believe this

Amen and you are leaving far to many out that are always the ones that destroy your theories

Go read Isa 28 and in particular verse one and 11-13

Anytime you want more witnesses (verses in scripture) to what I say just say so

For now I need to scoot

Blessings

Doug

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #68 on: May 27, 2009, 12:49:19 AM »
Sorry, but your comment is but a fragment and totally unrelated to the subject of this thread

You and I will never agree with subjects relating to the prophetic scriptures as I review your approach .... so let's agree to disagree and move on

I do understand UR theology, but do not agree with the concept at all in any of its many and varied forms

My views and yours are miles apart ..... oil and water

This is the truth



Offline willieH

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #69 on: May 27, 2009, 02:29:56 AM »
willieH: Hi Stephen...  :happygrin:

Are you so presumptuous, that you would think yourself to be of the first to attack the TRUTH of "UR" here @ TM?  Well R-ya?  :dontknow:

You are scripture picking by ignoring context and I would suggest that you engage in a more comprehensive study of the Lord's Word

UR is a replacement theology and another gospel for sure that does not line up with the scriptures of the Bible by any measure

This total concept is a falsehood and an example of behavior that Jesus Christ would come by those coming in His name and deceiving many in the process

Replacement theology?  Of course it is!  It replaces the LIES that those such as yourself "theologically" preach, ...and preaches the simple TRUTH in its PLACE!  :cloud9:  That GOD really DOES LOVE His Creation, and that He CAN accomplish SALVATION OF IT...  :boogie:

Instead of the DRUDGERY and LOST negativity that preachers of your breed bring to the world a "message" of HIS FAILURE (unable to SAVE the WORLD), and ETERNAL VENGENCE (Getting angry and staying angry at humans which cannot save themselves)... failing to grasp WHO and WHAT GRACE actually IS... Sentencing everyone but YOURSELF to a FIRE that never ends... :rolleye: 

Sorrowfully within your foolishness, ...remaining UNKNOWN to the one you claim to represent...  :pitiful:

It is no surprise that the BLIND cannot see... :cool:

So your observation which notes those falsely coming in His name as UR believers (by ignoring what the Scriptures plainly say), is quite understandable due to that BLINDNESS...

But just as I have already shown your observations as ILLOGICAL, NEGATIVE, and BLIND to what is actually IN the WORD... so here, you give me one more opportunity to add to them...   :thanks:

Hate to be the one to tell you this Stephen... but the believers in UR hardly compose "the MANY"... and there are very FEW which God calls from the ranks of the "MANY" which come to KNOW this TRUTH... and that FEW number of UR believers, is hardly changing the minds of the MANY which compose the Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, and JW "versions" and are those which "come in His name"...

As noted by CHRIST, ...the equation is MANY decieving MANY, Stephen... Not, ...FEW decieving MANY...  :pointlaugh:

UR = FEW -- Luke 18:8  (literally microscopic portion of Christianity)

Orthodox Christianity = MANY (2.5 BILLION type MANY!) -- Matt 7:22-23

Matt 24:7 -- for ...MANY... [not few -  a MAJOR quantity] shall come in My Name [bearing the name CHRIST - such as is done in Catholic and the innumerable Protestant churches]... and shall DECIEVE, ...MANY... [again the number which believe UR, do not equate to MANY, by any means of observation, especially when compared to the balance of CHRISTIANITY]

Quote
Let's not debate your religion .... this you must deal with this issue yourself 

UR is not a religion... it is a Biblical TRUTH... 2 Cor 5:18-19 "...reconciling the WORLD unto Himself..." (which just so happens to be the target of the mission! ...quite coincidental, dontcha think?)

Actually, you are not as "comprehensively" learned as you "see yourself"... It is interesting that God put a face on every human being, and each of us spends MOST of our life, observing that faces of OTHERS, while hardly ever SEEING our own...

There is evidence Early church supported the Salvation of ALL men... and has been taught since the inception of the Church...

It is PLAINLY in the Scriptures, and that which Scripture notes as "another Gospel" is the one you and your PIOUS, condescending self brings to us to consider, NOT KNOWING that most of us here at Tentmaker, have ALREADY walked around that sorrowful, blind, illogical, untruthful and blasphemous "block"... which you NOW trudge...   :duck: 

We have LEFT the BABYLON you preach -- Rev 18:4 --  and you are welcome to remain within it, and recieve this speech:

Matt 7:25 ...and then will I profess unto them... I NEVER knew YOU... depart from Me, ye that WORK INIQUITY...


About the teaching of "UR" ---

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

(Copied from Wikipedia):

Ancient Church

See also: Early Christianity

In the first five or six centuries of Christian history, the majority of theological schools in the East taught Universalism.[9] The most important such school was the Didascalium in Alexandria, Egypt, which was founded by Saint Pantaenus ca. 190 C.E.[10] Alexandria was the center of learning and intellectual discourse in the ancient Mediterranean world, and was the theological center of gravity of Christianity prior to the rise of the imperial Roman Church.[11] Alexandrian Christianity emphasized apocatastasis and theosis as its main teachings.

Saint Clement of Alexandria succeeded Pantaenus as the second head of the Didascalium in the late 2nd century. He was a prolific writer who combined Bible scholarship with Greek philosophy to present a systematic theology based on Christian Universalist beliefs.[12]

Origen was the student and successor of Clement of Alexandria. This 3rd century theologian is generally regarded as the most significant of all the ancient teachers of Christian Universalism. He wrote over 6,000 works including commentaries on almost every book of the Bible, sermons, treatises, letters, apologies, and the Hexapla, a scholarly translation of the Old Testament.[13]

Saint Gregory of Nyssa and Saint Macrina the Younger, who were brother and sister, were both prominent Christian Universalists of the 4th century in the Alexandrian tradition of Clement and Origen.[14][15] Gregory of Nyssa was a bishop and theologian. Macrina the Younger was the leader of a convent of nuns.

Another branch of Christian Universalism in the ancient church, separate from the Alexandria school, was the Nestorian movement which later became the Assyrian Church of the East. Nestorianism originated in the 5th century in Constantinople and Antioch. Theodore of Mopsuestia was an influential bishop who introduced universal reconciliation into the liturgy of the Nestorians, and who is still honored in the Nestorian tradition as the "Interpreter" of the faith.[16]

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

So  Stephen... do you think you have made any "headway" here at Tentmaker?  :laugh:

You are sorrowfully full of yourself, ...deeply studied, just like your RELGIOUS ancestors, the PHARISEES which stepped into this life before you, and just like them, you have been BLINDED by your own arrogance, and are left without even the slightest Spiritual vision... empty of the GOSPEL, full of yourself...  :sigh:

All this, despite the massive amount of time you have spent, which is employed by you to glorify yourself and your "comprehensive" and "complete" knowledge...   :rolleye:

It's all so sad...  :crywipe:

Hope you one day, do find the pathway that leads to enlightenment... but first you must shed the burdensome and heavy YOKE, known as YOU... Then, emptied of yourself, you will be a vessel into which GOD can pour Himself and the GLORY of His TRUTH...  :yes:

peace...  :Peace:

...willieH  :cloud9:

Offline Nathan

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #70 on: May 27, 2009, 03:14:09 AM »
willieH: Hi Stephen...  :happygrin:

Are you so presumptuous, that you would think yourself to be of the first to attack the TRUTH of "UR" here @ TM?  Well R-ya?  :dontknow:



Hey Stephen, I'm a little surprised that you have put out so much information in such little time.  I sense you have been spending much time strengthening your brain . . .mental weight lifting . . .as there is an impressiveness, a heaviness to your knowledge.  Had I have checked out your previous posts, I may never have tried to respond to you on the other thread as I did. 

The funny thing with the book of revelation and the traditional understanding of it . . .when you think of the nature of Jesus, what he brought, how he transformed lives, literally turned the tables upside down in the temple . .the Pharisees . .those who were considered to be the most knowledgeable men when it came to culture and Scripture . . .they couldn't touch him, as much as they wished they could, all they could do was nash their teeth.  Because what he said was spirit . . and where they lived was flesh . . .oil and water?  without a doubt.

Many on this forum see the church has gone the way of the Pharisee . . including me . . the church has convinced us that it's only through great knowledge of the Word that truth can manifest . . .but I beg to differ.  It's not about knowledge at all . . .if it were, Jesus would have made sure the disciples understood what he was saying . .but it was clear that one, they didn't understand, and two, he knew they didn't understand . . .oh sure, he did explain things explicitly to them from time to time . .but they still didn't understand.  The reason was because the spirit in him was not yet given to them . . .the spirit is the one who reveals . .not our ability to study.

So, here we sit . . .a cavern between us . .both sides are professing Christ even though we come from two completely different perspectives . . .one side firmly believes in eternal torment . .the other . . not so much.  But if you take this book of Revelation and compare it with the nature of Jesus . . . there was no fear, no terror, no destruction, no wrath being poured out on men by him . . .if the nature of Jesus was to bring joy . . .then what on earth happened with the church's understanding with the actual book of Revelation?

Is it not a revelation of Jesus Christ?  If it is, then how can the church's image of Jesus be in such a direct contrast to their understanding of the revelation of Jesus?  Should they not be one and the same?  Should not the book of revelation be one of joy?  One of hope?  One of celebration?  Because that's just how the first century church viewed it . ..they actually used it's contents as the source for their hymnals . . .but yet, our generation doesn't deny there are parts here and there that are celebrative . .but the over all message is one of doom and gloom . . .

And I do agree with your first post . . . once the conversation gets combatant, there's no point in trying to go any further . .but the thing I sense is that your intent is not to come to engage and have communion, your intent is to come and give your 30-year conclusions without being open to realize that none of us know all of it . . .that there are dimensions of God that no man can comprehend. 

I am a believer of UR . .but that's just one facet of the nature of God . . .eternal torment of those he created and call his own just doesn't fit with the God I've come to know and love with all my heart.  Belief is a choice . . .you can choose the church's version of hell, or choose to believe that God's grace is actually greater than the mind of men whom he created.

Just my thoughts is all . . .no intent for sparring . .  . Willie has a great heart.  I hope you read through his stuff and see the truths he shares . . . my problem is not the beliefs of other people, my problem is my perspective of other people's beliefs . . .it's not about them, it's about where my position is in relation to them . . .is the sun in front of me?  Or is it behind me . .cuz when you look at a tree with the sun to your back, all you'll see is leaves and shadows . .but when you look at the same tree with the sun in your face, light always finds a way through the tree no matter what time of day it is.

The shadows in the tree are not the trees problem, they are mine.  I'm the one out of alignment with the sun . . not the tree.

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #71 on: May 27, 2009, 03:21:44 AM »
"Hope you one day, do find the pathway that leads to enlightenment... but first you must shed the burdensome and heavy YOKE, known as YOU... Then, emptied of yourself, you will be a vessel into which GOD can pour Himself and the GLORY of His TRUTH"

>Sorry, but your UR theology is hobgoblin ..... is not christianity at all ..... and your words are all moot in my opinion .... neither do I accept your condescending and rash dialogue

>Your core position is that all humans are saved regardless of what they believe .... this is not biblical truth at all and only the devil himself would contrive such a sham

>Your entire system of UR theology is contrary to the basic bottom line tenants of biblical truth .... and much more deception abiding

>So there is no congruency with our views and no need for discussion

>My objective is to present views of biblical truth as I see them ..... and you must do the same

>Let's not waste time bantering over the differences ..... and exercise in futility for both

        
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 03:24:51 AM by Stephen »

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #72 on: May 27, 2009, 03:38:19 AM »
Nathan,

"Willie has a great heart"

>I will tell you that WH does not fool me at all .... his behavior and decorum reveal much .... and this also speaks of his following

>My recommendation to UR proponents .... follow the "Son" and His truth will set you free

>I am a very straight forward and candid personality and I do not mince around with spiritual folly and magic carpet riding theologies

>The scriptures are very clear to me on this issue and only a fool would discount the negative side of the unbeliever's fate

.... and I do not believe in an eternal tormenting of those who refuse the Lord by the way as you implicate .... the scriptures do not teach this at all

>However, the unbeliever's fate will be one of extinction with no continued existence ..... no recourse

>The Lord intends to separate .... and He will, make no mistake about this

>I could post a multitude of scriptures on this biblical fact .... but you have a Bible I presume
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 03:40:34 AM by Stephen »

Offline Taffy

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #73 on: May 27, 2009, 03:50:21 AM »
"Hope you one day, do find the pathway that leads to enlightenment... but first you must shed the burdensome and heavy YOKE, known as YOU... Then, emptied of yourself, you will be a vessel into which GOD can pour Himself and the GLORY of His TRUTH"

>Sorry, but your UR theology is hobgoblin ..... is not christianity at all ..... and your words are all moot in my opinion .... neither do I accept your condescending and rash dialogue

>Your core position is that all humans are saved regardless of what they believe .... this is not biblical truth at all and only the devil himself would contrive such a sham

>Your entire system of UR theology is contrary to the basic bottom line tenants of biblical truth .... and much more deception abiding

>So there is no congruency with our views and no need for discussion

>My objective is to present views of biblical truth as I see them ..... and you must do the same

>Let's not waste time bantering over the differences ..... and exercise in futility for both

        
Hi Stephen :icon_flower:

You may consider many folk at Tent have come from a fundamental,Literal understanding of the scriptures , some have  in part even tried to explain The difference  .

Of course each to their own , but you may find such oil and water dont mix , and youll be at logger heads with those who opt to oppose your theology , what Im trying to say Nicely , ya very much waisting your efforts .

Ya can holla from the roof tops and people wont hear ya....But as long as you and others abide by the guidelines, your welcome to share your veiws and the reason to them, so if you havent browsed them already, may I suggest you do , as it sure will save problems a little later on ,Cos without doubt , this  thread seems to be going the way of many before...

Just a few words to consider Stephen, Nothing agin ya Bro ...as we are where we are , For now at least. :icon_flower:

Blessings To ya :icon_flower:
Taffy
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 03:52:30 AM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #74 on: May 27, 2009, 04:17:05 AM »
"youll be at logger heads with those who opt to oppose your theology , what Im trying to say Nicely , ya very much waisting your efforts ."
Taffy,

>Thanks for the reply .... and I am aware of what you tell

>But it is never a waste effort to present the truth of the Lord's Word in any setting no matter the conditions

>I do not come to convince and have no need to do so .... but to post truth for the on lookers of a public forum

>Readers will decide for themselves

>You will discover that I refrain from dialogue with opposers in most situations [especially those who conduct themselves by rude and disrespectful attitudes] .... unless reasonable questions are asked