Author Topic: The Day Of The Lord  (Read 7299 times)

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Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2009, 07:15:22 PM »
Daniel
24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2009, 07:18:24 PM »
Romans
11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2009, 07:21:42 PM »
Daniel
9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans;

9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

9:3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:

9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

9:5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:

9:6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

9:7 O LORD, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.

9:8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.

9:9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;

9:10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.

9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

9:12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.

9:13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

9:14 Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.

9:15 And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly.

9:16 O LORD, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.

9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.

9:18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.

9:19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2009, 07:23:40 PM »
"Tell me Bro.......... what does Israel today have to do with Israel of the Bible?

If they can claim anything it is just a bunch of Edommites running around after the nature of King Herod.

Have you ever looked into what true Jews of the Torah have to say about when they are to "return to Palestine"?

According to them the worst thing that ever happened to the Jews was when the UN gave them what was Israel in 1948.

Take some time and read this ........ it is the perspective from true jews and will be for your benefit"


>I am aware of your position and all that you suggest that I reference .... in great detail

>Here is what I will show you for your benefit:

Mark
13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

2Peter
2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

2Timothy
3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.



 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 07:37:27 PM by Stephen »

Livelystone

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2009, 08:16:42 PM »
"Tell me Bro.......... what does Israel today have to do with Israel of the Bible?

If they can claim anything it is just a bunch of Edommites running around after the nature of King Herod.

Have you ever looked into what true Jews of the Torah have to say about when they are to "return to Palestine"?

According to them the worst thing that ever happened to the Jews was when the UN gave them what was Israel in 1948.

Take some time and read this ........ it is the perspective from true jews and will be for your benefit"


>I am aware of your position and all that you suggest that I reference .... in great detail

>Here is what I will show you for your benefit:

Mark
13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

2Peter
2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

2Timothy
3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.



 

Livelystone

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2009, 08:24:14 PM »
Stephen....

In that case you understand that the antichrist and false prophets were already infiltrating the church while John was still alive.................... and that by the time you came along John was already dead and that the false prophets were the ones who remained running the seminaries and in general making up the tail of the dragon that teaches lies and causes vast numbers of Christians (stars) to loose their inheritance in heaven.

Cool.......... just wanted to make sure you understood that.

Blessings

Doug

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2009, 12:15:27 AM »
I do understand .... and "the" antichrist is still at large by the way and will manifest at the time of the end during the Lord's coming tribulation period .... the Lord will give the devil to those who refuse to believer the truth about Him

This will come about by the workings of satan "unrestrained" and this fallen angelic will come to the earth [forced actually] by way of his active agents .... his term will be short before he is cast into the abyss and imprisoned for 1,000 years

Offline willieH

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2009, 02:49:20 AM »
willieH: Hi Stephen... :hithere:

Some actual dialogue fromya! :Yesss:  All right!  :thumbsup:

I do understand .... and "the" antichrist is still at large by the way and will manifest at the time of the end during the Lord's coming tribulation period .... the Lord will give the devil to those who refuse to believer the truth about Him

This will come about by the workings of satan "unrestrained" and this fallen angelic will come to the earth [forced actually] by way of his active agents .... his term will be short before he is cast into the abyss and imprisoned for 1,000 years

(1) "satan" as a fallen angel is short of understanding... :mnah:  "satan" is the adverse nature and "imprisoned will" of MEN -- NOT a "being" which "fell from Heaven" (which men, are self-decieved into thinking that their "will" is, "free")...

(2) There is no such entity as "THE Antichrist"...  any man in opposition or devoid of CHRIST, is "antichrist"

(3) Observation of "1000 years" mentioned in Rev 20, as a period in linear TIME, is also short of understanding... sorry!  It is a SYMBOLIC representation within the Revelation [REVEALING] of JESUS CHRIST... not a time oriented, "calendar event".

...willieH  :cloud9:
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 02:51:29 AM by willieH »

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2009, 02:53:56 AM »
"There is no such entity as "THE Antichrist"..." 

>Satan would agree with you since he wants no discovery and to stay under the cover .... but the Word of the Lord tells otherwise

>The little horn and first beast of Revelation is the entity that some call the "antichrist" who will appear at the time of the end of this present age

>These are satan's instruments used in his war "against" Jesus Christ .... the little horn and king of the northern Middle East presented in Daniel's visions incarnated by Abaddon-Apollyon, the angelic beast and king of the abyss, presented in Revelation's unfolding


Ezekiel
28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Isaiah
14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

Revelation
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation
9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star [satan] fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

9:7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

9:8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

2Thessalonians
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Revelation
11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 03:35:48 AM by Stephen »

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2009, 03:34:12 AM »
Daniel's view of the same entity

Daniel
7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

7:15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.

7:16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

8:16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

8:18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.

8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

8:22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.

8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up [the little horn].

8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall [the little horn] come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

11:36 And the king [the little horn] shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

12:5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he [the little horn] shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.









Livelystone

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2009, 04:01:04 AM »
Hi Stephen

Glad you are still here and have not given up on us

You knew when you came here that this place is what as labeled as a UR site. Now mind me when I say the fact that it is a UR site does not in-itself mean that the differences between some of the individuals here are any less than that of the differences of those who believe in things common such as the rapture or Jesus returning to a temple yet to be built in Jerusalem or pearly gates etc etc ......... What being a UR site entails is that those who post in good standing here share the knowledge that God who does not change is able to bring forth that what He said He would do.........simply stated that mankind will come into the image and likeness of God of whom there has only been one example and whom was given unto us as a pattern to be followed............. Jesus Christ


First I must say for the benefit of other as as well as for you and me I would like to have a dialogue between you and me in our own words as to the meanings of Scripture rather than simply quoting vast amounts of scripture.......... fair enough ?

That will allow for shorter posts and for others to understand exactly where we as individuals are coming from rather then leave quoted scripture up for grabs as to what it means or the differences that exist between how you see it versus how I or any one else here who may choose to jump in see it........ Cool ?

Blessings

Doug

Offline jabcat

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2009, 04:30:17 AM »
Quote
quoted scripture up for grabs as to what it means or the differences that exist between how you see it versus how I or any one else here who may choose to jump in see it

I agree that's important.  Probably everyone here owns at least one Bible...now what we get out of it can be another story    :dbook:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2009, 05:49:12 AM »
The Word of the Lord is paramount and must be studied and learned first in totality before one forms extra-biblical opinions and interpretations based upon partial and off course theological positions

This approach of short cutting has led to much deception and misleading brought on by spurious and questionable men who teach falsehood for the purpose of self gain

Many do not spend the time and seek the Lord's imparted guidance in relationship to the task and effort of studying themselves approved  .... there are no short cuts to full and complete comprehensive understanding .... one must never compromise the scriptures by lack of attention and refusal to absorb and include them all when seeking knowledge and truth on various subjects

....and the Lord has not given a revelation of confusion with optional interpretations .... his would be contrary to His purpose

Is it possible to understand all that He has given in His Word correctly? .... absolutely

« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 05:59:12 AM by Stephen »

Offline jabcat

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2009, 06:05:15 AM »
Stephen, I'm wondering if you personally believe you fully understand "all that He has given in His Word correctly"? 

Quote:  "The Word of the Lord is paramount and must be studied and learned first in totality before one forms extra-biblical opinions and interpretations based upon partial and off course theological positions"...

I don't believe the above quote is what has been suggested/requested.  Rather, that this is a discussion forum where there's give and take didactic discussion, rather than a platform for a teaching monologue.  I would think that would be more in line with a blog or one's own personal site. 

Although we don't worship the man (Gary Amirault), this is his site and we do respect his wishes.  One of his specific wishes (and rules of the forum) is that specific (especially detailed) bodies of teaching should not contradict Gary's primary beliefs.  I suggest checking out some of those things on the TM main page.  James.
 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 06:35:49 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline peacemaker

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2009, 07:04:23 AM »
Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 ... Lucifer? Satan?

"Many do not make the same mistakes twice; they make them five, six, or seven times seven."

peacemaker

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2009, 07:23:42 AM »
peacemaker, would you be alluding to something along these lines?  "The Isaiah passage does not connect, either historically or theologically, with the New Testament passages about the devil or the satan. By listening to the Old Testament passage on its own terms within its own context, we discover that Lucifer is not an Old Testament name for the devil or the satan. The passage in Isaiah 14:12-17 is directed at the downfall of the arrogant Babylonian rulers who took Israel into exile. By beginning with the New Testament, by making assumptions not supported by a closer examination of Scripture itself, and by using external theological categories as a lens through which to read Scripture, we may end up badly misreading Isaiah."  Believe it or not, from CRI  :mshock:.

Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline peacemaker

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2009, 07:31:10 AM »
Who me?   :mshock:

Offline jabcat

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2009, 07:36:13 AM »
Oh sorry, that must have been your evil twin, troublemaker  :angry1:.

Hard to believe, but more from CRI; "The name Lucifer has often been understood to be another name for the devil or the satan. This identification has a long history in the church, going back to at least the fourth century.
In Revelation 12 the red dragon with seven heads appears in the sky, and his tail sweeps down a third of the stars to earth, and is then later cast down to the earth along with his angels. Of course, at this point, a great many assumptions are introduced into the reading even of the Revelation passage, even though this is obviously extremely figurative language; we just assume what it means.
...the assumption about the meaning of all these texts, and the assumption that adding texts together is the way to understand them (a drastic perversion of the "Scripture interprets Scripture" principle).... Earlier translations (KJV) mistakenly took the Hebrew term sheol in verse 15 as "hell" (in Hebrew it is simply the place where the dead go, a metaphor for death, specifically burial; see Sheol, Hell, and the Dead)...

Velly, velly intellesting. :angel4:
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 07:42:54 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Pierac

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2009, 07:47:36 AM »
Stephen,

If your uncomfortable sharing what God has shown you, it's cool! You don't need to string along scripture to say what you can't.

Here, allow me to show you the danger of your ways!


Act 16:27  When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself… Then Jesus said… "Go and do the same." (Luke 10:37)

See the problem one can create?

Scripture, I already know! It's you that's a mystery?

Are you a Mormon? I can't tell from your string along post!
:dontknow:

Peace,
Paul


Offline peacemaker

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2009, 08:00:12 AM »
Oh sorry, that must have been your evil twin, troublemaker  :angry1:.

And all this time, I thought his name was war-maker.  :Oops: LOL

Offline willieH

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2009, 08:04:08 AM »
willieH: Hi Stephen... :hithere:

Quote from: willieH
There is no such entity as "THE Antichrist"...
 

>Satan would agree with you since he wants no discovery and to stay under the cover .... but the Word of the Lord tells otherwise:

Oh really?  Hmmm... even though a MYTHICAL and imagined entity, ..."satan" is hardly what one would call, ..."undercover"  :laughing7:  Please! Get real!

In this day and age, I would probably say that the MYTH of "satan" as a being, is more published in the world than ANY!   They make movies and tv programs CONTINUALLY about "satan"... and his "supposed" activities as the "ruler of darkness"...

 :Chinscratch: ---  :mnah:

(1) Neither "satan" or "the antichrist" is named in EITHER of these passages, new brother...  :dontknow:  You thereby assume the characters within to be them... not so.  The characters are those who are named. 

Shall this become the practice of Bible study?  Shall we believe that another received the Commandments from God, and not MOSES as is named in the text?  Inserting names at our descretion?  Upon what AUTHORITY is this done? 

(2)  There is no "satan" to agree or disagree with me Stephen... you have created "him" in these passages you quote which do NOT NAME "him", ...OR "the antichrist"...

On the contrary... The King of TYRUS is the addressee of this passage in Ezekiel, Stephen...

Ezekiel
28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

As to the passage quoted in Isaiah...

"lucifer" is not the actual addressee of the passage in Isaiah... it is contextually, the King of BABYLON -- Isaiah 14:4

Neither is "lucifer" -- "satan"... If he were, then how do you explain verse 16 which notes this "entity" as a ...MAN

Or that lucifer (if lucifer IS "satan") is VISIBLE and SEEN by observers as also noted in verse 16... Has he developed a cloaking device since then?  :laugh:

Or that he is cast out of his "GRAVE"? ...in verse 19 with a CARCASE, ..."run through" with a "SWORD"?

Since when did "satan" ever have a CARCASE or was it ("he" -- just for you) ever in a GRAVE?  :dontknow:

And even if you can find a way to explain these things... why did GOD not use the word "satan" as He did in JOB, in these passages?  God has not withheld the use of this term elsewhere in the Scriptures  ... why should He hold it back in such IMPORTANT texts, if indeed "satan" is the one spoken of?

No... these are the imaginations of ORTHODOXY which you have adopted bro... and hopefully in God's time, you shall UNLEARN these fallacies...

Isaiah
14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

There are several things WRONG with the observation of FALLEN ANGELIC beings, here are just a few:

First... An ANGELIC being that FALLS, suggests that the PERFECT and HOLY place of HEAVEN, is NOT PERFECT, neither is it HOLY for in the course of ETERNITY (whatever that might be), IMPERFECTION was found... and is FOREVER BLEMISHED because of it...

Second... And an ANGEL which not only is able, to, but DOES REBEL against GOD, ...suggests that GOD is NOT completely in CONTROL of His Creative efforts... a "tinkering" engineer at best, ...which further means that...

Third... He is therefore NOT "Almighty", and is found FALLIBLE in His creation of ANGELS... (Might I say, right here and NOW, that ANGELS were never created... They have ALWAYS been, as extensions of GOD who has ALWAYS BEEN)...

Fourth... There is a problem with this "REBELLION idea" RE-OCCURING... for Men will have in eternity, the knowledge of VANITY, SIN, EVIL, DISOBEDIENCE, ...which is actualy MUCH more than the proposal that "satan" for NO REASON, without provocation, or KNOWLEDGE of EVIL, ...decided to REBEL against GOD who had "given him" the highest position, next to Himself...

Fifth... "satan" is, according to theologians (such as yourself) which promote this nonsense... found with INIQUITY within himself, and GOD had nothing to do with it, other than to CAST him out of Heaven for that iniquity, on POOR unsuspecting MAN who was an INFANT by comparison, having NO CHANCE at all against such a being as theology depicts "satan" to be...

Sixth... According to CHRIST -- Matt 25:31 -- ALL the HOLY ANGELS (not just the "left-overs") shall accompany CHRIST at His appearance... which means that NONE of them are absent because of "FALLING" somewhere in Eternity...

There are many more reasons that it does NOT work and that INSIST the idea of FALLEN ANGELS to be COMPLETELY FALLACY, but that will have to do for now...

I wish you the spirit of understanding of the WORD of YHVH...

...willieH  :cloud9:
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 07:52:42 PM by willieH »

Offline willieH

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2009, 08:40:55 AM »
willieH: Hi Stephen...  :friendstu:

The Word of the Lord is paramount and must be studied and learned first in totality before one forms extra-biblical opinions and interpretations based upon partial and off course theological positions

I agree and disagree with this statement Stephen...

I agree that the WORD of YHVH is paramount and must be studied... however,

I DISAGREE that it WILL, or even CAN be LEARNED in TOTALITY by ANY finite human being.  Also, it is a matter of OPINION as to WHO is "off course" in their observations OF IT...

As far as "theological positions"... I do not see this required by the WORD, only by those who claim to HAVE "theological positions"  :laughing7:

This approach of short cutting has led to much deception and misleading brought on by spurious and questionable men who teach falsehood for the purpose of self gain

I am 63 Stephen, ...and I'll have you know that I have spent 33+ years studying this book... and that is by NO MEANS a "short cut"!  How old are you?  If you are 40, that means my study began when YOU were age SEVEN... If you are FIFTY, you were age SEVENTEEN...   :dontknow:

In those 33+ years... I have only scratched the foamy SURFACE of this ETERNAL OCEAN we call the WORD of GOD... so don't give me a "you gotta learn it ALL, before you establish a theological position" speech!  It aint woikin' f'me -- :mnah:

Many do not spend the time and seek the Lord's imparted guidance in relationship to the task and effort of studying themselves approved  .... there are no short cuts to full and complete comprehensive understanding


No offense new brother, but you have already displayed your knowledge to be MUCH LESS than "comprehensive" and FAR SHORT of COMPLETE!!  ...It would help if you stopped waving your "I'm the prototypical Bible Student" flag... and just get in a discussion or two with some of the VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE folks that hang out in these here, parts!  :Book: :dbook: :drama:

.... one must never compromise the scriptures by lack of attention and refusal to absorb and include them all when seeking knowledge and truth on various subjects

....and the Lord has not given a revelation of confusion with optional interpretations .... his would be contrary to His purpose

Please, brother, relax a taste, ...we all take ALL Scripture into consideration (as we are aware)...  We are ALL students... and there is ALWAYS more to learn...

To say there isn't confusion, is a type of self deception bro... It is MORE than obvious, displayed by the DIVIDED denominational entity known as Christianity, that confusion IS entered into it...  If it is present, then it has PURPOSE... It doesn't mean that GOD authored the confusion, rather, it is His creatures (even those who BELIEVE) which are all tied up in a knot of their own stubborness, foolishness, pride, and doing.

If there were NO CONFUSION, they would ALL be ONE church, with ONE teaching... however... more and more little buds pop up everyday, new offspring of those divided and confused churches...  :sigh:

Which one do you belong to?  :dunno:  Or are you come out into the wilderness seeking to more clearly HEAR HIS VOICE, with most of us?  :dunno2:

Is it possible to understand all that He has given in His Word correctly? .... absolutely

It is ONLY POSSIBLE, if GOD were to decide to GIVE one ALL CORRECT understanding... and if you believe you have been given this gift... then GOD is thereby, being PARTIAL to you... :mnah: ...for we are ALL seekers of Him... 

He SAYS that He is IMPARTIAL!  Acts 10:34 (and 9 other places I've found [probably more] - 2 Sam 14:14 -- Job 34:19 -- Rom 2:11 -- Mk 12:14 -- 2 Chron 19:7 -- Gal 2:6 -- Eph 6:9 -- Prov 28:21 -- Col 3:25   :happygrin:)

I say that you, though very devoted, and time invested,  are quite self decieved...  Even the Apostle PAUL noted:  FOR NOW, ...We see through a glass DARKLY... but when LOVE (which he had just described) comes in its PERFECTION... THEN we shall see IN PERFECTION... 1 Cor 13:12

Get your feet back on the ground Stephen... and get down & dirty with the rest of us, as we dig in the FIELD called the WORD of almighty YHVH God...  :grouppray:

Peace me-bratha...  :afFro:

...willieH  :icon_king:
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 08:50:43 AM by willieH »

Livelystone

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2009, 11:56:16 AM »

.
Is it possible to understand all that He has given in His Word correctly? .... absolutely

I agree completely Stephen...........however

.
Quote
..and the Lord has not given a revelation of confusion with optional interpretations .... this would be contrary to His purpose

but here you have made a mistake.......... lets see what God has to say about your opinion.

Isa 66:4    I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose [that] in which I delighted not.


So here is the proof Stephen........ God sends the truth to one person and then goes and chooses the delusion of another...... so Stephen the question I have for you to ponder over is why did not our Lord bring this verse before you and not allow you to make such a blunder right of the bat......... do you think that pride could have anything to do with it?

Man shall not live by his word but BY EVERY WORD THAT COMES FORTH FROM GOD and that includes applying the laws of God to Words of God rightly dividing the word between the true witness and the false witness as well as providing two or more witnesses to prove any word to make it proved suitable for doctrine for the edification of His Chosen.

So thus far I have only provided one witness to the fact that God will send a delusion contrary to his Heavenly Nature when it suites Him to do so............ will you please find a second witness for us and post it in your response........ thanks in advance.

BTW Stephen this is the only God approved way and is laid out in Isa 28 as to who will gain knowledge versus who will not...... it is the same manner in which Paul and the others both wrote and taught in that was as Peter said........... "sometimes hard to be understood". However if one is to learn the Scriptures in the same manner as it was written by His Holy Prophets then it must be done God's way and not through the ways of man that may get one a doctorate in literature but not get past first base in understanding the things of God.

Blessings

Doug

Stephen

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2009, 07:34:48 PM »
The passage that you quote is directed specifically at national Israel given in the context of Isaiah's rendering

I would suggest that you might be one who has been sent delusion, as you say others must be, and you may want to check out the pride factor for yourself as well .... this attribute will get in your way

You should seriously consider your position of limitation on complete, congruent, and correct rendering of the scriptures

The scriptures are written to be studied and fully understood by those who diligently and honestly seek the Lord's involvement in the process of interpreting His Word
 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 07:53:54 PM by Stephen »

Offline willieH

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Re: The Day Of The Lord
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2009, 09:14:46 PM »
willieH: Hi Paul...  :happygrin:

Stephen,

If your uncomfortable sharing what God has shown you, it's cool! You don't need to string along scripture to say what you can't.

Here, allow me to show you the danger of your ways!


Act 16:27  When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself… Then Jesus said… "Go and do the same." (Luke 10:37)

See the problem one can create?

Scripture, I already know! It's you that's a mystery?

Are you a Mormon? I can't tell from your string along post!
:dontknow:

Peace,
Paul

I don't think he has much to say Paul...  All he does is post Scripture, and/or a comment with it... He doesn't respond, obviously because he is insecure about the true depth of his "positions"...

It is easy to post what you believe, and ignore those who question those beliefs.  Many do this because they really know deep down, that they do not have the truth, and sidestep (by ignoring) those who question them, and are really seeking it...

If one really has TRUTH... the TRUTH bears witness of itself... and shall stand the tests of scrutiny that others might bring against it... but when one really doesn't have the TRUTH... one shall remain unresponsive, because he/she has no response which solidly refutes the questioning... (which the TRUTH does, when possessed)

I'll be surprised if he responds at all... Doesn't matter, holes in his "infallible knowledge" have already been pointed out...  The readers can decide for themselves...

...willieH  :cloud9: