Author Topic: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History  (Read 2444 times)

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Offline marie glen

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the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« on: October 13, 2012, 06:20:15 PM »
hi! I happened to tune into a study of the book of revelation yesterday on the radio. These aLways drive me crazy!! Don't they realize Revelation, or its Greek name, "Apocalypse" (unveiling), is the story of the consummation of good and evil? Don't they realize that there's an absolute that underlies all logic? That God is Perfect, and Perfection makes NO mistakes? Adam and Eve, placed in and of the GARDEN PARADISE had eaten of the forbidden tree of the KNOWLEDGE of both good and evil, which fruit we are still chewing on, to this day. (Once thinking ability, thus choice, was endowed, a whole new world, or tree, of possibilities 'came to be'.) In this final book of the Bible, the FRUIT OF THE EARTH is fully ripe, both goodness, and wickedness. John was a very old man, when Roman authorities banished him to an uninhabited island called "Patmos".
     While he was there, the Lord Jesus showed him a great vision of how man's world would end up. The visions of this book, like everything else God does, is highly dramatic and colorful! Believers are urged to read, listen to, and hear, the words of this little book after the mighty crash of all things false, and a last great war of nations, Armageddon (with environmental woes as a precursor to these things) and after a 1,000 year Kingdom of our Lord's long second advent (of rebuilding paradise upon Earth) - the New Jerusalem (the new capital of the planet) comes down from heaven, onto the earth.
     It shines of jewels and gold, and the pure sparkling river of the water of life flows through it, to all the world, with trees of life on either side, which leaves and fruit will be for the total healing, and continued health of the nations. No eye will again cry from sorrow, there will be no sickness, suffering or death. The question of good and evil, right and wrong, what is life as opposed to what is death, has been answered for all time, and all citizens have it engraved deeply upon their very hearts and minds for all eternity and ages. To stray from Perfection/Life/God, is to stray away from the very "breath of life" and can only ever end in a self destructive puff of smoke... and dust and ashes.
     Elsewhere it says "eye has not seen, nor ear conceived, nor heart ever been able to fully imagine, all the good things God has created for those who love Him."
~ ~ ~
Where does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (the 2nd) during age of Judgment, there's sure to be weeping and wailing & for those habitual despisers of God, gnashing of teeth--who may make their way to LOF
~Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process??
~ ~ ~
The historist elements in the Bk of Rev shed light on the futurist! (Like13:13, same as, 6:12-17, but both  begin/historist & end/futurist r described here so early! a clever lock; & parts of ch12-hist; ch's 10,12,13 = inserts)
~imo we are at 7:1 a pause of 6:12/splitting of atom

Offline Paul L

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2012, 09:38:56 PM »
Marie,

It can be very difficult to surmise how there can be so many different interpretations of Revelation. So many theologists, and novice theologists, are so insistent on pushing a specialized interpretation that they are oblivious to the fact that only the Bible itself is needed for a full & complete understanding of the book.

A classic example as follows:

Rev 1:10-11 Explains to the reader that the message of Revelation is to be delivered to the 7 ecclesias (churches, assemblies, congregations) on the Day of the Lord. All seven congregations receive the message on the same day which is the opening day of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy. No interpretation of scripture is needed here, only thing to understand here is that seven congregations of ecclesias (Greek: assembly, congregation) in these 7 cities are to have the message read  to them by some messenger all on the same day. But what does the Christian church do but interpret the interpretation & change the day of delivery from "day of the Lord", to 2000 years of Christian church eras of history.

Believing in the bogus interpretation of "seven christian church eras" will precipitate a total incapacity of just about all readers to understand much of anything about the purpose of the book of Revelation.

Offline marie glen

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2012, 05:28:12 PM »
Not only is the seven ages of the church silly and erroneous, but so is a 7 year tribulation, the math is simple - daniel 12:11,12 (45 days, 35 plus "ten days"). The Book of Revelation is very easy to understand, but not of course, without God's Spirit. The book opens by saying 'blessed are those who hear, listen to and heed what is written therein'. What's most amazing to me, however is the number of times 'good' christian people try to turn you away from reading and understanding the Book of Revelation. Granted some believe 'last days' troubles will be miraculously escaped from, by being 'raptured' / "caught away" before hand, which flies right in the face of "immediately aFter the tribulation of those days.. shall they see the Son of man coming on the clouds.. He will send out his angels to gather his elect from the four corners of the earth" (north, south, east, west).
- And the thing is, if there is no pre trouble arrival of Jesus ("the dead will be raised first..") then as the people of God hopefully we are able to point out the signs Jesus gave concerning it.. But there is definitely a strong spirit in opposition to that. Or maybe it's just that human nature doesn't change.. these days, our prophet is the apostle John (and others) and what was written about the collapse of men's empires. Surely we're not under the delusion that they will avoid collapse/results/judgement of God. Shall we leave our kids and grand kids defenseless, without knowledge and warning! :eek: :smile:
~ Jesus said "when you see" Mt 24"15, Dan 12:11 "when you see" Lk 21:20, Rev 16:14,15,16
And don't forget! Just like the prophets spoke of the two advents of Jesus as a blend of the two, so too with Bible prophecy.. an 'immediate' fulfillment and an 'end' days one without any gap being apparent..
~ ~ ~
Where does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (the 2nd) during age of Judgment, there's sure to be weeping and wailing & for those habitual despisers of God, gnashing of teeth--who may make their way to LOF
~Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process??
~ ~ ~
The historist elements in the Bk of Rev shed light on the futurist! (Like13:13, same as, 6:12-17, but both  begin/historist & end/futurist r described here so early! a clever lock; & parts of ch12-hist; ch's 10,12,13 = inserts)
~imo we are at 7:1 a pause of 6:12/splitting of atom

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2012, 07:46:55 PM »
Not only is the seven ages of the church silly and erroneous, but so is a 7 year tribulation, the math is simple - daniel 12:11,12 (45 days, 35 plus "ten days").
daniel 12:11,12

11 From the era when the continuous ritual is taken away, and to the setting of the abomination of desolation, is a thousand two hundred and ninety days."
12 Happy is he who will tarry and attain to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days!
1290 and 1335 days
Where are the 35 and 45 days?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Paul L

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2012, 04:21:37 AM »
Marie,

Quote
Granted some believe 'last days' troubles will be miraculously escaped from, by being 'raptured' / "caught away" before hand, which flies right in the face of "immediately aFter the tribulation of those days.. shall they see the Son of man coming on the clouds.. He will send out his angels to gather his elect from the four corners of the earth" (north, south, east, west).

I've tried mightily to study the Greek concerning what Apostle Paul stated about Christ's coming to "catch away" the Body of Christ, & events in Revelation, but the only meaningful clue  that I've been able to discover that would separate Christ's coming to put down AntiChrist & his coming for the Body of Christ is the two events may not occur at exactly the same moment in time. Paul's description of events sound similar enough to me that it could happen at exactly the time he defeats AntiChrist, but I'm ambivalent about it to say the least. I don't think there is enough information in the bible that we could conclude it one way or the other.

Quote
And don't forget! Just like the prophets spoke of the two advents of Jesus as a blend of the two, so too with Bible prophecy.. an 'immediate' fulfillment and an 'end' days one without any gap being apparent..

Which "two advents" are you speaking of here?

Offline marie glen

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2013, 08:49:17 PM »
I see I lost track of this thread.. I'm trying not to do that anymore!

I know this hasn't been added to for a bit, but I think these things are important and are supposed to be understood so I rather like discussing them.. sorry I disappeared..

Not only is the seven ages of the church silly and erroneous, but so is a 7 year tribulation, the math is simple - daniel 12:11,12 (45 days, 35 plus "ten days").
daniel 12:11,12

11 From the era when the continuous ritual is taken away, and to the setting of the abomination of desolation, is a thousand two hundred and ninety days."
12 Happy is he who will tarry and attain to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days!
1290 and 1335 days
Where are the 35 and 45 days?

White Wings, the 45 days is the difference between 1,335 and 1,290... if the abomination, which imo, the 'last days' fulfillment will be the 666 goings on, is "set-up" 1,290 days or roughly 3 & 1/2 years later - or another way of saying it, if 666 is "set-up on day 1,290 and happy is the one who comes to day 1,335 (which is 45 days later) what "happy" event occurs which, imo, seems to cut short the 666.. Logic is what suggests to me that Revelation 13:18 when "no one can buy or sell w/o" 666 at some time escalates into the "will be killed/beheaded" of Rev 20:4. The letter to Smyrna mentions "ten days tribulation" which seems to me logical this is what some call 'the great trib' when folks are executed.. Either or what ever way, the question remains, what happy event occurs on day 45 of 666?

The doctrine of "the tribulation and the great tribulation together lasting 7 years" is an error, which actually has to do with the world peace so called ratified or celebrated for 7 years but already, in the midst or middle of it, they "take away" the daily sacrifice (or place of??) away from Israel.. not hard to assume this is something or area disputed in Israel/Jerusalem, someplace where sacrifices of praise, prayers and thanksgiving are offered every day.

Which reminds me..


I've tried mightily to study the Greek concerning what Apostle Paul stated about Christ's coming to "catch away" the Body of Christ, & events in Revelation, but the only meaningful clue  that I've been able to discover that would separate Christ's coming to put down AntiChrist & his coming for the Body of Christ is the two events may not occur at exactly the same moment in time. Paul's description of events sound similar enough to me that it could happen at exactly the time he defeats AntiChrist, but I'm ambivalent about it to say the least. I don't think there is enough information in the bible that we could conclude it one way or the other.


Paul, I don't think they are two events because of some key scripture.. 2 thess 1:7 says Jesus comes with fire and angels, and Matthew 24:29-31 says "immediately after the tribulation of those days.. He will send out His angels to gather His elect from the four corners (winds) of the earth"

In the Book of Revelation it says He comes on a white horse (at which time I believe is the 7th and last trump, with the armies of heaven with Him. The armies of the nations are gathered to fight against Him ( :rolllol: )  1 Corinthians15:52 says "at the last trump, the dead (in Christ) will be raised and those alive (in Christ) will be changed" -  mortal will put on immortality and corruption, fallen nature will put on incorruption, i.e. the brides pure, white bridal clothes/linen.

Then, His feet, it says (Zechariah 14:4) will touch down upon the Mt of Olives (from where He left and the angels said "why are you looking up into heaven this same Jesus as you-saw going up into heaven will return in like manner" (be seen)

And, back to the Book of Revelation, He will trample the wine press of the wrath of God (the results of man's 'apart' from God, doings - i.e. apart from God= disaster & would perish)


marie quote - "And don't forget! Just like the prophets spoke of the two advents of Jesus as a blend of the two, so too with Bible prophecy.. an 'immediate' fulfillment and an 'end' days one without any gap being apparent..

Paul - Which "two advents" are you speaking of here?


The two advents of Christ, when He came the 1st time, was born, crucified, rose and ascended, and His second (long) advent which begins at His return at the last of the "Trumpets".. and running right up until the time all the things/ the Kingdom is handed over (back to) the Father and He, His throne and the New Jerusalem 'come down' to abide and "Tabernacle" upon the new earth with mankind..  :banana:

 :smile:
~ ~ ~
Where does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (the 2nd) during age of Judgment, there's sure to be weeping and wailing & for those habitual despisers of God, gnashing of teeth--who may make their way to LOF
~Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process??
~ ~ ~
The historist elements in the Bk of Rev shed light on the futurist! (Like13:13, same as, 6:12-17, but both  begin/historist & end/futurist r described here so early! a clever lock; & parts of ch12-hist; ch's 10,12,13 = inserts)
~imo we are at 7:1 a pause of 6:12/splitting of atom

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2013, 09:59:58 PM »
IMO, I was always a little amused with the coming back doctrine in that it made it look like Jesus was coming to earth then catches up the saints, then makes a u-turn, "says, "fooled ya - you thought this was the second coming but I'm just here to pick up some saints - I'll be back -see ya - wouldn't wanta be ya." and then goes back up for awhile to return once again this time to stay.

IMO, All that confusion because it says Jesus is coming with the saints. Since the saints are meeting him in the air and he is coming with the saints (their spirit form) that have already died, all the saints will be with him as his feet touch down on Mt. of Olives. :dontknow:
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline eaglesway

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 01:13:10 AM »
IMO the book of revelation is a message to the churches. A revelation about how to overcome. A series of pictures of spiritual reality- mostly applicable in every age, but also including some historical prophecy unfolding as the times are fulfilled, as it says in Ephesians,,,,"an adiminstration suitable to the funess of times, the summing up of all things in Christ, whether things in heaven or things on earth."

It begins with letters to the church. Those churches being typical of diverse conditions of spirituality ion churches around the world throughout the generations since the first churches flourished in the Middle East.

The exhortation is, over and over, to the one who hears and to the one who overcomes- and there have been hearers and overcomers in every generation since the beginning.

COME ALL YE WHO THIRST, DRINK OF THE WATER OF LIFE, the Spirit and the Bride say COME, and the call has gone forth ever since, and the thirsty have come ever since as well.

Come, behold, listen, hear, overcome. I think the historical view and the fulfilled view come together more perfectly in John's revelation than anywhere else in the Bible and it is an error to try to separate one from the other- the key is seeing both, and without the key, one cannot pentrate very far into the hidden wisdom buried like treasure in the field of those pages. Go, sell all you think you have, hit the "refresh" button, buy that field and then begin digging and treasures fit for TODAY, IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE will come up out of the ground, the Sabbath rest of the believer, the promised land, Beulah :o)  :2c:
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline sheila

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2013, 02:06:03 AM »
   Beautifully said...Amen.

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2013, 02:20:28 AM »
IMO the book of revelation is a message to the churches. A revelation about how to overcome. A series of pictures of spiritual reality- mostly applicable in every age, but also including some historical prophecy unfolding as the times are fulfilled, as it says in Ephesians,,,,"an adiminstration suitable to the funess of times, the summing up of all things in Christ, whether things in heaven or things on earth."

It begins with letters to the church. Those churches being typical of diverse conditions of spirituality ion churches around the world throughout the generations since the first churches flourished in the Middle East.

The exhortation is, over and over, to the one who hears and to the one who overcomes- and there have been hearers and overcomers in every generation since the beginning.

COME ALL YE WHO THIRST, DRINK OF THE WATER OF LIFE, the Spirit and the Bride say COME, and the call has gone forth ever since, and the thirsty have come ever since as well.

Come, behold, listen, hear, overcome. I think the historical view and the fulfilled view come together more perfectly in John's revelation than anywhere else in the Bible and it is an error to try to separate one from the other- the key is seeing both, and without the key, one cannot pentrate very far into the hidden wisdom buried like treasure in the field of those pages. Go, sell all you think you have, hit the "refresh" button, buy that field and then begin digging and treasures fit for TODAY, IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE will come up out of the ground, the Sabbath rest of the believer, the promised land, Beulah :o)  :2c:

I had planned at least a 2-week "time away from" spending so much time reading the various Christian Forums, in order to do some serious writing; but wanted to take the time to respond to Marie on the abiding in the word thread.  When I finished I saw that you had posted to the Revelation thread and almost did not open it...      Prov 16:9 (AMP) a man's mind plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps and makes them secure.   I truly felt the "heavy, but tender hand" of the Spirit open up your post... I read it with great, great joy.  It is for me a reminder --a summary of what the Spirit has been saying to me for the past several years.
It's very interesting to me that the words "Spirit" and "water" appear in the same verse 15 times...

First time:
Gen 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.  And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the water.

Last time:
Rev 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.  And let him that heareth say, Come.
And let him that is athirst come.  And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.


 I need to share as an aside...I am so grateful for the others who have been shown yet another way of looking at Revelation.  Though many, we are one in the Spirit...

Offline eaglesway

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2013, 04:12:47 PM »
Amen Anna.

   I have reaped so much from Genesis one and the understanding that comes from the "inside" of those verses.

There is also truth on the "outside" of those verses.

So many things in the scripture are like this.

Truth on the face. Truth revealed in layers from within as we meditate, dig, mid-rash together. So much joy of fellowship and discovery is lost when we turn these manifaceted "elements" of the truth against one another instead of magnifying the aspects in which they flow together, manifesting truth within and without.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline marie glen

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2013, 11:10:39 PM »
IMO, I was always a little amused with the coming back doctrine in that it made it look like Jesus was coming to earth then catches up the saints, then makes a u-turn, "says, "fooled ya - you thought this was the second coming but I'm just here to pick up some saints - I'll be back -see ya - wouldn't wanta be ya." and then goes back up for awhile to return once again this time to stay.

IMO, All that confusion because it says Jesus is coming with the saints. Since the saints are meeting him in the air and he is coming with the saints (their spirit form) that have already died, all the saints will be with him as his feet touch down on Mt. of Olives. :dontknow:

Aha! straightforward and simple (not complicated - sometimes I think the saints like everything super complicated so we can feel wiser than those who don't like to bend their minds in all kinds of loop de loops:) ...besides, too, in 1 thess 4 the return, lifting away or gathering of the live believers, and the 1st resurrection are all together..
~ ~ ~
Where does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (the 2nd) during age of Judgment, there's sure to be weeping and wailing & for those habitual despisers of God, gnashing of teeth--who may make their way to LOF
~Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process??
~ ~ ~
The historist elements in the Bk of Rev shed light on the futurist! (Like13:13, same as, 6:12-17, but both  begin/historist & end/futurist r described here so early! a clever lock; & parts of ch12-hist; ch's 10,12,13 = inserts)
~imo we are at 7:1 a pause of 6:12/splitting of atom

Offline marie glen

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2013, 11:52:21 PM »
Amen Anna.

   I have reaped so much from Genesis one and the understanding that comes from the "inside" of those verses.

There is also truth on the "outside" of those verses.

So many things in the scripture are like this.

Truth on the face. Truth revealed in layers from within as we meditate, dig, mid-rash together. So much joy of fellowship and discovery is lost when we turn these manifaceted "elements" of the truth against one another instead of magnifying the aspects in which they flow together, manifesting truth within and without.

Amen, and the plain and obvious intention and the inner messages should all jive and are able to flow together. Rather than versus, it's "and".. :smile:
~ ~ ~
Where does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (the 2nd) during age of Judgment, there's sure to be weeping and wailing & for those habitual despisers of God, gnashing of teeth--who may make their way to LOF
~Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process??
~ ~ ~
The historist elements in the Bk of Rev shed light on the futurist! (Like13:13, same as, 6:12-17, but both  begin/historist & end/futurist r described here so early! a clever lock; & parts of ch12-hist; ch's 10,12,13 = inserts)
~imo we are at 7:1 a pause of 6:12/splitting of atom

Offline eaglesway

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2013, 05:02:04 AM »
Absolutely, amen. Imo most of the mysteries(musterion) and the revelation(apokalupsis) - the hidden wisdom of the word- is like the body of a coin. The coin has two faces. We see the faces from one side or the other and try to "get in" with half a coin. It no work ;o). The 'whole counsel of God' is contained 'between the faces'. Inside, there is no opposition. God is calling us to walk 'between the lines'. Anything else is "cuttin it outta whole cloth'. "In the Spirit" there is no such opposition. Rather, there is 'integration' as the members share from various perspectives and the 'whole' IS greater than the sum of it's parts :o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline marie glen

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2013, 08:52:57 PM »
One more note.. I'm a literal person, literalist if you will. I feel there is great spiritual message and metaphor behind the parting of the Red Sea but there is also very important historical and literal application, in that were someone at the time, facing the other way and didn't see, and were not aware of the Sea parting they perhaps would have been run over by Egypt's charging chariots.. jus sayin'  :girlheart: and trying to introduce a different insight.. one I am passing on to my grand kids.. and anyone else who might be able to hear or see it :)
~ ~ ~
Where does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (the 2nd) during age of Judgment, there's sure to be weeping and wailing & for those habitual despisers of God, gnashing of teeth--who may make their way to LOF
~Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process??
~ ~ ~
The historist elements in the Bk of Rev shed light on the futurist! (Like13:13, same as, 6:12-17, but both  begin/historist & end/futurist r described here so early! a clever lock; & parts of ch12-hist; ch's 10,12,13 = inserts)
~imo we are at 7:1 a pause of 6:12/splitting of atom

Offline eaglesway

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2013, 07:47:11 AM »
I also believe the Red Sea split as Moses raised His rod and Joshua and Caleb held his arms as Israel passed over on dry land.

They placed the blood of a first born lamb upon the doorpost and the death angel "passed over', but all .the firstborn of Egypt died.

Literal events that foreshadowed our deliverance from the Pharoah of this world  by the Lamb's blood upon our doorpost (heart sprinkled clean from and evil conscience) and passing through our Red Sea (bodies washed with pure water, washing of the water of the word)- a new and living way into the holy of holies made for us by our deliverer.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline sheila

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2013, 08:10:04 AM »
 when Israel crossed the Jordan..the preists with the Ark of the covenant went in first and stood in

 the middle,til all had passed..then come up out of the Jordan.

Exodus 14;19 then the angel of God,who had been traveling in front of Israel's army,

withdrew and went behind them. The pillar of clouds also moved from in front of them to

stand behind them.

  Isaaih 30;21 although the Lord gives you bread of adversity and the water of affliction,

  YOUR TEACHERS WILL BE HIDDEN NO MORE

 whether you turn to the right or to the left,you will hear a voice from behind you.....saying

  THIS IS THE WAY...WALK IN IT

Offline marie glen

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2013, 04:16:18 PM »
you will hear a voice from behind you.....saying

  THIS IS THE WAY...WALK IN IT

:smile: this was one of the very first verses the Lord ministered to my heart when first saved 34 years ago.. I think it's what most led me to have no human teachers but the voice of His Spirit only. And this of course is how we come out of the desert of ET belief. It's been 30+ years I've felt (also) a 'revelation call', plainly shown by His Spirit that man's world cannot continue on forever, that all that is written shall come to pass. People run away from that, in fear, but those who know Him have no reason to fear (even ET'rs:) especially if they know the clear signs Jesus gave for that very reason. "Hide thyself for a little til the indignation be overpast." And if they should know the counting of days between the biggest sign and the beginning of the short period of the dragon in full control.. Even if, like Hebrews 11, some suffer, having been snared, His Spirit is sufficient. "If the watchman see the sword coming and say nothing.." {If they take away or remove, the wailing wall, at that time, remember, roughly 3 and 1/2 years later is 666, daniel 12:11,12 - tell your kids/grandkids}
~ ~ ~
Where does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (the 2nd) during age of Judgment, there's sure to be weeping and wailing & for those habitual despisers of God, gnashing of teeth--who may make their way to LOF
~Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process??
~ ~ ~
The historist elements in the Bk of Rev shed light on the futurist! (Like13:13, same as, 6:12-17, but both  begin/historist & end/futurist r described here so early! a clever lock; & parts of ch12-hist; ch's 10,12,13 = inserts)
~imo we are at 7:1 a pause of 6:12/splitting of atom

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2013, 04:25:35 PM »
the wailing wall is not part of the temple at least according to EL Martin. It was a part of the fortress or something like that.  And what would that have to do with 3.5 years later? 

Don't you know you are the temple of God?

Offline marie glen

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2013, 05:43:45 PM »
the wailing wall is not part of the temple at least according to EL Martin. It was a part of the fortress or something like that.  And what would that have to do with 3.5 years later? 

Don't you know you are the temple of God?

Amen! We are all the temple of God, each one of us.. The Wailing Wall, from what I've heard is part of a wall of what was the temple complex, but what Jesus said was "see aLL this?"

Mt 24:1 & 2 - "And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple, and His disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple, then He asked them, "you see all these, do you not? Truly I tell you, not one stone will be left here upon another; all will be thrown down."

the 3 and 1/2 reference was Daniel 12:11 - "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away," (this is why so many believe there shall be a 3rd temple built before Jesus' return) "and the abomination that makes desolate set up" (the Amplified Bible calls this the 666 apparatus and for last days application, I agree) "there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

[from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, there shall be 43 months or 3.5 Hebrew years (in a Hebrew leap year? so actually almost 3.6 years)  between the two.

and also verse 12 - "Blessed is he that waits" (other translations say perseveres) "and comes to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days." Which is 45 days later, some happy event interrupts..
:smile:
~ ~ ~
Where does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (the 2nd) during age of Judgment, there's sure to be weeping and wailing & for those habitual despisers of God, gnashing of teeth--who may make their way to LOF
~Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process??
~ ~ ~
The historist elements in the Bk of Rev shed light on the futurist! (Like13:13, same as, 6:12-17, but both  begin/historist & end/futurist r described here so early! a clever lock; & parts of ch12-hist; ch's 10,12,13 = inserts)
~imo we are at 7:1 a pause of 6:12/splitting of atom

Offline eaglesway

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2013, 06:14:45 PM »
when Israel crossed the Jordan..the preists with the Ark of the covenant went in first and stood in

 the middle,til all had passed..then come up out of the Jordan.

Exodus 14;19 then the angel of God,who had been traveling in front of Israel's army,

withdrew and went behind them. The pillar of clouds also moved from in front of them to

stand behind them.

  Isaaih 30;21 although the Lord gives you bread of adversity and the water of affliction,

  YOUR TEACHERS WILL BE HIDDEN NO MORE

 whether you turn to the right or to the left,you will hear a voice from behind you.....saying

  THIS IS THE WAY...WALK IN IT

But....that was then......this is Now.   

Just kidding :o)

A more beautiful type of priesthood and service does not exist in the word(imo). A good example for Ephesians 4 and and how the functions of apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher and evangelist are to work, serving, building, edifying in love- putting it out there first so to speak- taking the risk.

Know those who labor among you

Entrust your souls to those who by reason of experience have their senses exercised to know the difference between good and evil(flesh and spirit).
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline sheila

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2013, 06:55:40 PM »
spiritually speaking.....the removal of the wall of fire[God's protection] on the temple

 arrangement=desolation of the house/temple arrangement.[gnashing of teeth outside the city]

  for with the coming of Him who comes in the name of the Lord[spirit]  God said....

   'I desire mercy not sacrifice].  The abomination of desolation..was the sin against the Holy spirit

  the rejecting of Him who comes in the name of the Lord[spirit and truth].......
.

   I beleive He spoke of this when speaking of putting new wine in NEW wineskins........

  new covenant...new temple arrangement......could the secound resurrection be symbolized

 by the bringing of the jews back to Jerusalem...and the wicked[beast that received death-

stroke to it's head] be those who would once again reject Jesus Christ/He who comes in the name

 of the Lord..an  abomination]

  and attempt to rebuild former temple arrangement?    I know that all Isael shall be saved.....

 but all Isael is not Israel.  as long as this good/evil arrangement continues..man in flesh will

  serve as an example of powers and principalities in high places...surely the temple mount is

a high place?   The wrath of God in times past came against such high places of worship...

  where-ever I put my Name..is where you worship.....the New Name is the approved designated

 place of worship[spirit and truth..no name higher then Jesus Christ]

   Go look at Shiloh..and see what happened.

   white-washed walls...that fall..is surely symbolized of the natural/carnal city..Jerusalem

  full of dead men's bones...could the messianc jews in her symbolize the resurrection of the

 righteous?

    I know that until this age of good/evil is consumed..both the word of God in flesh

  and the offspring of viper manifest in flesh...will be on open display..a spectacle to behold.



 

Offline marie glen

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2013, 10:24:44 PM »
 :icon_jokercolor: Mark 13:(12,13)14-20 - Young's Literal Translation (YLT) (& Mt 24:14-22)

14 `And when ye may see the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (whoever is reading let him understand), then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains;

15 and he upon the house-top, let him not come down to the house, nor come in to take anything out of his house;

16 and he who is in the field, let him not turn to the things behind, to take up his garment.

17 `And wo to those with child, and to those giving suck, in those days;

18 and pray ye that your flight may not be in winter,

19 for those days shall be tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the creation that God created, till now, and may not be;

20 and if the Lord did not shorten the days, no flesh had been saved; but because of the chosen, whom He did choose to Himself, He did shorten the days.

Daniel 12:9,11,12 - Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

9 And he saith, `Go, Daniel; for hidden and sealed [are] the things till the time of the end;

11 and from the time of the turning aside of the perpetual (or daily?) [sacrifice], and to the giving out of the desolating abomination, [are] days a thousand, two hundred, and ninety. (or 3 yrs,7months)

12 O the blessedness of him who is waiting earnestly, and doth come to the days, a thousand, three hundred, thirty and five. (who comes to 45 days later) (rev 13:18 escalates to rev 20:4b? for rev 2:10 duration?)
~ ~ ~
Where does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (the 2nd) during age of Judgment, there's sure to be weeping and wailing & for those habitual despisers of God, gnashing of teeth--who may make their way to LOF
~Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process??
~ ~ ~
The historist elements in the Bk of Rev shed light on the futurist! (Like13:13, same as, 6:12-17, but both  begin/historist & end/futurist r described here so early! a clever lock; & parts of ch12-hist; ch's 10,12,13 = inserts)
~imo we are at 7:1 a pause of 6:12/splitting of atom

Offline eaglesway

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2013, 09:40:42 AM »
spiritually speaking.....the removal of the wall of fire[God's protection] on the temple

 arrangement=desolation of the house/temple arrangement.[gnashing of teeth outside the city]

  for with the coming of Him who comes in the name of the Lord[spirit]  God said....

   'I desire mercy not sacrifice].  The abomination of desolation..was the sin against the Holy spirit

  the rejecting of Him who comes in the name of the Lord[spirit and truth].......
.

   I beleive He spoke of this when speaking of putting new wine in NEW wineskins........

  new covenant...new temple arrangement......could the secound resurrection be symbolized

 by the bringing of the jews back to Jerusalem...and the wicked[beast that received death-

stroke to it's head] be those who would once again reject Jesus Christ/He who comes in the name

 of the Lord..an  abomination]

  and attempt to rebuild former temple arrangement?    I know that all Isael shall be saved.....

 but all Isael is not Israel.  as long as this good/evil arrangement continues..man in flesh will

  serve as an example of powers and principalities in high places...surely the temple mount is

a high place?   The wrath of God in times past came against such high places of worship...

  where-ever I put my Name..is where you worship.....the New Name is the approved designated

 place of worship[spirit and truth..no name higher then Jesus Christ]

   Go look at Shiloh..and see what happened.

   white-washed walls...that fall..is surely symbolized of the natural/carnal city..Jerusalem

  full of dead men's bones...could the messianc jews in her symbolize the resurrection of the

 righteous?

    I know that until this age of good/evil is consumed..both the word of God in flesh

  and the offspring of viper manifest in flesh...will be on open display..a spectacle to behold.

Amen

I will not dwell in a temple made with hands. What dwelling place could you build for me? I choose to dwell within a temple of living stones, fitly joined together, mortared in brotherly love- the acceptable sacrifice.

for I will dwell among them and I will walk among them and I will be their God and they will be my people and all the nations will kno that I am their God

I will be a wall of fire around Zion

Something the Lord whispered to me in the darkness- we must pass through the wall of fire to get in. the flames will purify our hearts, so that we can dwell peacefully and joyfully within. Outside, as you put it- Weeping and gnashing of teeth, "when you see the children of men inside and you yourselves cast out- for the harlots and the publicans will enter in before you"

If your light is darkness, how great is that darkness

If you were blind, you would have no sin. Because you say you see your sin remains.

Blessed is the man whose sin is forgiven, unto whom the Lord imputes no iniquity.

I dwell in the high and holy place and with the one who has a broken and a contrite spirit

A broken and a contrite heart i will in no way cast out.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline marie glen

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Re: the Book of Revelation is the Story of Human History
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2013, 03:06:45 AM »
Here's a really good UR site! Someone else here on tentmaker forum posted -
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

plain english, non-believers and et believers alike could read and understand quite well :smile:
~ ~ ~
Where does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (the 2nd) during age of Judgment, there's sure to be weeping and wailing & for those habitual despisers of God, gnashing of teeth--who may make their way to LOF
~Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process??
~ ~ ~
The historist elements in the Bk of Rev shed light on the futurist! (Like13:13, same as, 6:12-17, but both  begin/historist & end/futurist r described here so early! a clever lock; & parts of ch12-hist; ch's 10,12,13 = inserts)
~imo we are at 7:1 a pause of 6:12/splitting of atom