Author Topic: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast  (Read 4029 times)

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Offline sheila

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2011, 11:35:44 PM »
     
          :grin:

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2011, 01:01:22 AM »
Molly, the beasts are made on the sixth day so is adam. 

Titus 1:12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." v 13 this is true

2 Pet 2:12 But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.

Ecc 3:18 I said to myself concerning the sons of men, "God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts."

oops You're right.  But, still in the image and likeness of God.

Do you think that something must be added to man to make him like God, or taken away from man to make him like beasts?

In the image and likeness of God, but being covered by the skin garments that were given for covering.  And our flesh is the curtain, which is covered with cherubs(representing the beasts), they also looked and saw the cherubs blocking the garden.  Now we see as in a mirror, in an enigma (the enigma of the sphinx), but then we will see face to face, and we all with unveiled faces are reflecting the glory of God, being transformed from glory to glory.  If a man is a hearer of the word and not a doer(spirit led), he is like a man who looks at the face of his origin(genesis) in the mirror and immediately goes out and forgets what sort of man he was

Offline Nathan

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2011, 09:13:02 PM »
May I propose to you that the one standing "with" the fiery sword at the garden's gate was removed from that position the moment the veil in the tabernacle was rent.  The "flaming" sword was not to keep us out as much as it was a sign to direct us back in.

Genesis 3
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

That's why Jesus proclaimed he is THE WAY, the truth and the life and no man can come to the Father except "through" him.  The flaming sword is the way and it leads us back into the garden from which we were originally placed. 

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2011, 09:37:18 PM »
Are you saying Jesus is one of the cherubs or the sword?  I've thought of the 2 which are one (made of one piece) signifying the mystery of Christ and the church.  They were made of olive wood, and overlaid with gold, pointing to our future glorious state (gold), with the olive wood representing the man in us.  Now the gold is hidden on the inside, but then it will be on the outside as our covering. 

The only problem with that is that the cherubim are the carriers of Jesus/glory of the LORD as seen in EZE.  And the cherubim throw themselves to the ground in the presence of the lamb in REV

So my other thought is symbolizing the one new man, Jew and Gentile, as we are grafted into the olive tree(olive wood). 

Okay I answered myself, He is the sword, the word of God is sharper than any two-edged sword.  I'll leave the first idea there just incase there's something there.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2011, 10:20:49 PM »
Are you saying Jesus is one of the cherubs or the sword?
There was a angel woven on the veil/curtain that was rent at His death.


Exod 36 [ACV]
8 And all the wise-hearted men among them who wrought the work made the tabernacle with ten curtains, of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, with cherubim; the work of the skilful workman made them.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 10:24:52 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2011, 10:32:28 PM »
well,the little children were partakers of flesh and blood.....no man ever hated his own flesh,but feeds and clothes it.

   different story for the king of tyre...he killed his people

Offline Nathan

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2011, 11:07:31 PM »
yeah, it doesn't say that the cherub is holding it, it merely states the cherub was posted there "and" so was the flaming sword. 
  The fact that it turns every way is what a beacon does for those searching for shorelines . .  . . .and for me, it speaks of the infinity of his presence.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2011, 11:18:32 PM »
May I propose to you that the one standing "with" the fiery sword at the garden's gate was removed from that position the moment the veil in the tabernacle was rent.  The "flaming" sword was not to keep us out as much as it was a sign to direct us back in.

Genesis 3
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

That's why Jesus proclaimed he is THE WAY, the truth and the life and no man can come to the Father except "through" him.  The flaming sword is the way and it leads us back into the garden from which we were originally placed.

Just a thought, Bill Britton reasoned that the "flaming sword" to keep the way of the tree of life, was mans tongue, that must be tamed. Just a thought. :HeartThrob:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline sheila

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2011, 11:31:58 PM »
 more like cloven tongues of fire

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2011, 11:44:03 PM »
The flaming sword being Jesus makes sense, because whenever we see the cherubs they have the glory with them.  In the HOH the shekinah rested on/above/between? them.  In EZE above them, In REV they surround HIM.  If the 4 gospels are each a face of the cherubs, they "contain" Jesus, and if we are the cherub we contain Him.   The zodiac(with the four points of the compass being a face) contains HIS story, He is seen as the sun, and the sun travels through the zodiac (I think, I don't really understand how it works).

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2011, 11:46:03 PM »
Pentecostal swords...
Act 2:3  And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2011, 11:50:15 PM »
The flaming sword being Jesus makes sense, because whenever we see the cherubs they have the glory with them.  In the HOH the shekinah rested on/above/between? them.  In EZE above them, In REV they surround HIM.  If the 4 gospels are each a face of the cherubs, they "contain" Jesus, and if we are the cherub we contain Him.   The zodiac(with the four points of the compass being a face) contains HIS story, He is seen as the sun, and the sun travels through the zodiac (I think, I don't really understand how it works).
Above and around is the same. The wings cover whats under/between them.
Four faces are situated at the main Zodiac directions. North/Easts/South/West. Also being the 4 main tribes.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2011, 12:04:23 AM »
Ernest Martin thought that the image of the beast was the restoring of the ark of the covenant to a false temple.  He has a futurist viewpoint, I don't take that view, but I believe he's right.  Same data, different final conclusion.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2011, 12:11:53 AM »
May I propose to you that the one standing "with" the fiery sword at the garden's gate was removed from that position the moment the veil in the tabernacle was rent.  The "flaming" sword was not to keep us out as much as it was a sign to direct us back in.

Genesis 3
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

That's why Jesus proclaimed he is THE WAY, the truth and the life and no man can come to the Father except "through" him.  The flaming sword is the way and it leads us back into the garden from which we were originally placed.

Just a thought, Bill Britton reasoned that the "flaming sword" to keep the way of the tree of life, was mans tongue, that must be tamed. Just a thought. :HeartThrob:

God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden, then posted a symbol for man's tongue at it's gate?  How the heck did they come to that one?

Offline Nathan

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2011, 12:14:35 AM »
The flaming sword being Jesus makes sense, because whenever we see the cherubs they have the glory with them.  In the HOH the shekinah rested on/above/between? them.  In EZE above them, In REV they surround HIM.  If the 4 gospels are each a face of the cherubs, they "contain" Jesus, and if we are the cherub we contain Him.   The zodiac(with the four points of the compass being a face) contains HIS story, He is seen as the sun, and the sun travels through the zodiac (I think, I don't really understand how it works).
Above and around is the same. The wings cover whats under/between them.
Four faces are situated at the main Zodiac directions. North/Easts/South/West. Also being the 4 main tribes.

Four main tribes?  I didn't realise there were four "main" ones.

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2011, 12:26:36 AM »
The camps were situated with them being the "main" ones at each of the compass points.  See Numbers 2

Offline Nathan

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2011, 03:07:08 AM »
Judah, Rueben, Ephraim and Dan . . .huh.  What'dya know about that.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2011, 12:23:56 PM »
The camps were situated with them being the "main" ones at each of the compass points.  See Numbers 2
4 corners of the earth. 4 horsemen.


4 groups of 3. Compare that with the Laver/LoF
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2011, 03:55:53 PM »
Judah, Rueben, Ephraim and Dan . . .huh.  What'dya know about that.

The north point symbolizes up, and its an eagle, and Dan is the judge.  What do you always say about elevated places? :bigGrin:  Also in the zodiac the eagle has the serpent in its talons, seems to me that might be telling us how to overcome the serpent.

The rising sun(Son) comes from the East.  The daystar arises in our hearts.  A star will rise out of the tribe of Judah.  On the temple mount looking out from the HOH toward the east is Mount of Olives where Jesus was crucified and Ascended, also the Shekinah moved there right before the destruction of the temple.  The high priests camped to the east too.

The man on the south point which is the right hand if God is sitting on His throne the ark of the covenant, looking east, Son of my Right hand.

Our works (ox) are behind us, and our kingship (lion) lies ahead of us.  Our works push us toward the east toward the kingship.  Kingship is the goal not the works.

If the gospels are each one of the heads, that leaves out the fifth gospel, ACTS.  The major story of acts (to me) is Pauls revelation of Christ IN him.  Paul was the 13th apostle, just as there were 13 tribes, with Joseph being doubled to continue the outer shell, since Levi was called out of the outer encampment to camp around the tabernacle, then out of the families of Levites Aarons family was the one who could go into the HOH.  Always calling out, just as the overcomers are called out.  I see Paul/ACTS/overcomers representing the actual tabernacle itself, which is the central point of the whole Bible, Christ in you the hope of glory.

The encampment is the first dividing line, outside that is the nations, the outer encampment is body.  Levites with inner encampment is Soul.  Aaron/high priests is spirit.


Offline Nathan

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2011, 04:05:08 PM »
That's pretty good!!  I have been able to always see Judah as the leading tribe in that not only is that the actual lineage of Jesus natural bloodline, but also the importance of it's being at the "east" Gate of the temple . . .the ONLY gate to the temple and Judah meaning praise always has been a joy to me to see the only "way" to enter into the temple is "through" praise . . .worship has always been one of my favorite things to do.

For me, the book of Acts seems to be more about the shift from the Gospel that was first offered to the Jews, to it changing it's emphasis from Jew to Gentile . . .it's the closing chapter to Daniel's prophetic "70 weeks" that God had set aside for the Jews originally.

Offline sheila

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2011, 06:09:16 PM »
 And the key to that Praise worship is to REALIZE THAT GOD WORKED IT ALL..and repent of the 'work' of our hands......idols,images that somehow we have saved

  ourselves or delivered ourselves through our own wisdom or righteousness.

Offline shawn

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2011, 09:41:44 PM »
Judah, Rueben, Ephraim and Dan . . .huh.  What'dya know about that.

The north point symbolizes up, and its an eagle, and Dan is the judge.  What do you always say about elevated places? :bigGrin:  Also in the zodiac the eagle has the serpent in its talons, seems to me that might be telling us how to overcome the serpent.

The rising sun(Son) comes from the East.  The daystar arises in our hearts.  A star will rise out of the tribe of Judah.  On the temple mount looking out from the HOH toward the east is Mount of Olives where Jesus was crucified and Ascended, also the Shekinah moved there right before the destruction of the temple.  The high priests camped to the east too.

The man on the south point which is the right hand if God is sitting on His throne the ark of the covenant, looking east, Son of my Right hand.

Our works (ox) are behind us, and our kingship (lion) lies ahead of us.  Our works push us toward the east toward the kingship.  Kingship is the goal not the works.

If the gospels are each one of the heads, that leaves out the fifth gospel, ACTS.  The major story of acts (to me) is Pauls revelation of Christ IN him.  Paul was the 13th apostle, just as there were 13 tribes, with Joseph being doubled to continue the outer shell, since Levi was called out of the outer encampment to camp around the tabernacle, then out of the families of Levites Aarons family was the one who could go into the HOH.  Always calling out, just as the overcomers are called out.  I see Paul/ACTS/overcomers representing the actual tabernacle itself, which is the central point of the whole Bible, Christ in you the hope of glory.

The encampment is the first dividing line, outside that is the nations, the outer encampment is body.  Levites with inner encampment is Soul.  Aaron/high priests is spirit.

You had better be careful.  You might start sounding like Nathan.   :winkgrin:

Offline Nathan

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2011, 10:23:02 PM »
Dear Jesus . . . help me love Shawn . .cuz HE'S KILLIN' ME!!

Offline shawn

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Re: Carnal Nature and Mark of the Beast
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2011, 09:06:04 AM »
Dear Jesus . . . help me love Shawn . .cuz HE'S KILLIN' ME!!

 :grin: