Author Topic: Revelation 1:5 and reborn  (Read 2116 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Revelation 1:5 and reborn
« on: February 05, 2012, 11:39:16 AM »
I often read on this forum that we have to be reborn. Rebirth is mainly spiritual. A turn from darkness and stepping on the path of light.
I think all agree Jesus was on the path of light His whole earthly life.

(Rev 1:5) and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

If Jesus was perfect He didn't need spiritual rebirth, so the above verse stricktly speaks about His body being reborn. (resurrected)

What pattern does that show for believers and unbelievers?

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Revelation 1:5 and reborn
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2012, 05:08:56 PM »



I've also wondered if I will, sleep then wake, or will it be transfiguration?
But since I've already died with Christ I prefer the latter.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Revelation 1:5 and reborn
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2012, 09:21:30 PM »
What purpose would our lord have in having you transfigured.
More than having you sleep and wake.

Just curious 
 :bigGrin:

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Revelation 1:5 and reborn
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2012, 10:02:25 PM »


To fulfill the Scriptures that are written.
See above.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Revelation 1:5 and reborn
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2012, 11:44:35 PM »



I've also wondered if I will, sleep then wake, or will it be transfiguration?
But since I've already died with Christ I prefer the latter.
John 15:20 Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.


Frankly that still puzzles me a lot. If master Jesus had to die then His servant has to die too. Otherwise the serveant would be greater than the Master. I think that even includes Beloved Servants  :winkgrin:

But... OTOH Jesus' mission was to accomplish change. Undo the works of Adam. From that pov it can be argued Jesus was Master because He accomplished the change and not His servants.

/EDIT By that I mean the change of not dying.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 12:11:00 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Revelation 1:5 and reborn
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2012, 11:58:49 PM »
In Revelation we read about several resurrections. We read the "bad" people need to sleep for another 1000 years. The good people will rule with Jesus.
It's often said those good people are Christians.
If so that automaticly means Christians will die. (without death no resurrection)
I would count the great OT names like Abraham, Job, Daniel, etc to the good people. But are they Christians?
Or is the whole "only Christians" a distortion of the truth?

Few notes:
- I can accept the 1000 years are not literal but just mean "a long time"
- I also accept spiritual components.

But even if the 1000 years only last 1 year and it's 100% spiritual there is a diffence as shown in the various resurrections. Jesus who never was spiritual dead was the first fruit of those resurrections. So Jesus' literal/bodily resurrection is extremely closely linked to the other resurrections. So for me answers like "It's all spiritual" are just ways of saying "I don't know" or "I don't want spend the time figuring it out."
Simply because patterns (literal vs spiritual) are parallel story lines. Not linear ones.
 :dontknow:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Revelation 1:5 and reborn
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2012, 12:05:15 AM »


Understood.
But I still go with my first notion, this is one of those things that I trust to the leading of Spirit.
I liken it to a magnet.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Revelation 1:5 and reborn
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2012, 12:19:35 AM »
Quote
I trust to the leading of Spirit.
As everybody (should) know by now I have zero experience with that but I wonder what exactly is it.

Is it just sitting still and wait?
Or could my question be a signal to you, to start searching and the find something HS intends to give you as a reward for that search?

To be clear I'm not claiming divine leadership. Far from that!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 09:23:55 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Revelation 1:5 and reborn
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2012, 12:52:13 AM »


That why a used a magnet as example.

Years ago there was a movie called "Close Encounters Of The Third Kind" and some characters
experienced a similar burning/yearning that could also used as example.

Hollywood often uses Truth. That's why they're so successful!