Author Topic: Rev 22:2 The cross of life  (Read 4809 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« on: June 21, 2009, 03:40:19 PM »
Revelation 22:2  In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Tree
Quote
3586 xu,lon xulon {xoo'-lon}
Meaning:  1) wood 1a) that which is made of wood 1a1) as a beam from which any one is suspended, a gibbet, a cross 1a2) a log or timber with holes in which the feet, hands, neck of prisoners were inserted and fastened with thongs 1a3) a fetter, or shackle for the feet 1a4) a cudgel, stick, staff 2) a tree
Origin:  from another form of the base of 3582; TDNT - 5:37,665; n n
Usage:  AV - tree 10, staff 5, wood 3, stocks 1; 19

The Greek word for tree is dendron
Mark 8:24  And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees/dendron, walking.

Quote
1 Peter 2:24
  Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree/xulon,


Street
Quote
4113 platei/a plateia {plat-i'-ah}
Meaning:  1) a broad way, a street
Origin:  from 4116;; n f
Usage:  AV - street 9; 9

A few alternative translations

(Mace)  in the midst of the area, surrounded by the river, was the tree of life, which had twelve fruit-seasons, yielding its fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

(Diaglott-NT)  In midst of the broad place of her and of the river on this side and on that side a wood of life, bearing fruits twelve, according to month each one yielding the fruit of itself; and the leaves of the wood for healing of the nations.

(LITV)  In the midst of its street and of the river, from here and from there, was a tree of life producing twelve fruits: according to one month each yielding its fruit. And the leaves of the tree were for healing of the nations.

Maybe street should be translated as square?
Mace seems to say that the tree is on a island in the middle of the river.


Rev 22:2 The cross of life standing on a island in the middle of the river.

Just a thought :Chinscratch:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2009, 05:16:22 PM »
 :cloud9: Interesting. For my  :2c:.......a river ran under the temple. The priests used it to wash away the blood from the sacrifices. This is a picture of what happens to the "bad" blood of Adam as we lay down our lives as a living sacrifice. Also, this is what the river of living waters that was to come out of our belly (means innermost being), do, after the baptism in the Holy Ghost.

The priests were the only ones that could go in this inner sanctum, again a picture of the High Priest of our confession, because sins were confessed to the priests, and the priests laid their hands upon the animal the person brought for the prescribed sacrifice (a type of our carnal beastly nature/flesh) and imputed their sins to the animal that was to be slaughtered. Which was in type as we are to lay hands on the sick (sin is that which keeps us from being whole in Him) and they shall recover, and whatsoever sins ye remit, they are remitted.

As for it being an island, I can see this as the cross was in the inner court in pattern, and the priests were anointed, which means they were separated to God for service. An island is separated from other land masses, just as the priests were separated from other men.

Paul told the Galatians he would stay until Christ was FORMED in them. Christ is formed in us, as we eat of the shewbread (natures/names of the 12 tribes) in the light of the candlestick, which produces 12 manner of fruits. Fruit speaks of a harvest. Leaves are the covering of a tree; they provide shade (REST from the heat and burning of the Sun). Entering into His rest, is as coming under His covering, which is Christ.

This points to the two anointings or coverings, just as the Ark of the Covenant does with it's two coverings of gold, one inward, one outward. Receiving Him as Lord is the inward anointing of gold (the higher nature of God), receiving the baptism in the Holy Ghost, is as the outward anointing of gold. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2010, 07:55:43 PM »
I'm continuing with my old point because yesterday suddenly a related thought popped in my mind.
I start saying that the exact defenition of the words vary a bit. So it's in no way presented as solid proof.
Merely a thought and/or start of a discussion...
KJVMatthew 10:38  And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
KJVMatthew 16:24  Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
KJVMatthew 27:32  And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.
KJVMatthew 27:40  And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
KJVMatthew 27:42  He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
KJVMark 8:34  And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
KJVMark 10:21  Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
KJVMark 15:21  And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross.
KJVMark 15:30  Save thyself, and come down from the cross.
KJVMark 15:32  Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
KJVJohn 19:17  And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
KJVJohn 19:19  And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
KJVJohn 19:25  Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
KJVJohn 19:31  The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
KJV1 Corinthians 1:17  For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
KJV1 Corinthians 1:18  For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
KJVGalatians 5:11  And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
KJVGalatians 6:12  As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
KJVGalatians 6:14  But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
KJVEphesians 2:16  And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
KJVPhilippians 2:8  And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
KJVPhilippians 3:18  (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
KJVColossians 1:20  And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
KJVColossians 2:14  Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
KJVHebrews 12:2  Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 


In all the above verses cross was translated from "stauros"

4716 stauro,j stauros {stow-ros'}
Meaning:  1) an upright stake, esp. a pointed one 2) a cross 2a) a well known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections, and occasionally in the provinces, at the arbitrary pleasure of the governors, upright and peaceable men also, and even Roman citizens themselves 2b) the crucifixion which Christ underwent

Below a selection of OT verses with the word tree in it.
KJVGenesis 1:11  And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
KJVGenesis 1:12  And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
KJVGenesis 1:29  And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
KJVGenesis 2:9  And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
KJVGenesis 2:16  And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
KJVGenesis 2:17  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
KJVGenesis 3:1  Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

In all above verses the word tree is translated from:
6086 #[e `ets {ates}
Meaning:  1) tree, wood, timber, stock, plank, stalk, stick, gallows 1a) tree, trees 1b) wood, pieces of wood, gallows, firewood, cedar-wood, woody flax
Origin:  from 06095; TWOT - 1670a; n m
Usage:  AV - tree 162, wood 107, timber 23, stick 14, gallows 8, staff 4, stock 4, carpenter + 02796 2, branches 1, helve 1, planks 1, stalks 1; 328

Below a selection of NT verses with the word tree in it.

KJVMicah 4:4  But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.
KJVHabakkuk 3:17  Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls:
KJVHaggai 2:19  Is the seed yet in the barn? yea, as yet the vine, and the fig tree, and the pomegranate, and the olive tree, hath not brought forth: from this day will I bless you.
KJVZechariah 3:10  In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.
KJVZechariah 11:2  Howl, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down.
KJVMatthew 3:10  And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
KJVMatthew 7:17  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
KJVMatthew 7:18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
KJVMatthew 7:19  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
KJVMatthew 12:33  Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
KJVMatthew 13:32  Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
KJVMatthew 21:19  And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
KJVMatthew 21:20  And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
KJVMatthew 21:21  Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
KJVMatthew 24:32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
KJVMark 11:13  And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
KJVMark 11:20  And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
KJVMark 11:21  And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
KJVMark 13:28  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
KJVLuke 3:9  And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
KJVLuke 6:43  For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
KJVLuke 6:44  For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
KJVLuke 13:6  He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
KJVLuke 13:7  Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
KJVLuke 13:19  It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.
KJVLuke 17:6  And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
KJVLuke 19:4  And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
KJVLuke 21:29  And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
KJVLuke 23:31  For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
KJVJohn 1:48  Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
KJVJohn 1:50  Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
KJVActs 5:30  The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
KJVActs 10:39  And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
KJVActs 13:29  And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
KJVRomans 11:17  And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
KJVRomans 11:24  For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
KJVGalatians 3:13  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
KJVJames 3:12  Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
KJV1 Peter 2:24  Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
KJVRevelation 2:7  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
KJVRevelation 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
KJVRevelation 7:1  And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
KJVRevelation 9:4  And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
KJVRevelation 22:2  In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
KJVRevelation 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

In the above verses tree is translated from:
3586 xu,lon xulon {xoo'-lon}
Meaning:  1) wood 1a) that which is made of wood 1a1) as a beam from which any one is suspended, a gibbet, a cross 1a2) a log or timber with holes in which the feet, hands, neck of prisoners were inserted and fastened with thongs 1a3) a fetter, or shackle for the feet 1a4) a cudgel, stick, staff 2) a tree


As you can see from the above post and the 1st post in this thread the Hebrew/Greek words that are in many Bibles translated to tree and cross all have (also) a meaning pole.
But also the meaning of tree.
The first Adam picked fruit from the tree of in the midst of the garden. Basicly fruit on that tree caused death.

The second Adam, Jesus, is also called First Fruit. Fruit grows on a tree.
So the damage the first Adam did by stealing the fruit is undone by the second Adam.
So in a way Jesus has become the new tree of life.
So perhaps our First Fruit wasn't nailed to a cross but to a 'tree'....?

 :umnick:


 

 
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline rosered

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2010, 08:34:08 PM »
 

 love these WW!
 Good job bringing this out in the open Deu 21:22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged [is] accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance.
 

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 


 Gal 3:11   But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 


 Gal 3:12   And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 

 Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.Brethren,

I speak after the manner of men; Though [it be] but a man's covenant, yet [if it be] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
 
 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Offline CHB

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2010, 02:16:23 AM »
[quote author=WhiteWings}
The second Adam, Jesus, is also called First Fruit. Fruit grows on a tree.
So the damage the first Adam did by stealing the fruit is undone by the second Adam.
So in a way Jesus has become the new tree of life.
So perhaps our First Fruit wasn't nailed to a cross but to a 'tree'....?[/quote]

Very good WhiteWings, by George I think you've got it.   :happygrin:

CHB

Offline sheila

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2010, 02:49:53 AM »
   Isaaih 27;9

    By this,then, shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this

  IS ALL THE FRUIT,TO TAKE AWAY HIS SIN

     when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in sunder,

 ....the groves and images shall not stand up

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2010, 03:00:25 AM »
Amen Sheila!
And people wonder if the OT is still important!
Wrestle with the Lord for the blessing, Prince!

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2010, 10:23:31 AM »
To continue my word game.
I can't find the connection myself so I'm asking for linking verses and/or word defenitions.

I'm looking for proof "nailed" means "grafted in"
Then the story would be:
Eve plucked the fruit and Jesus was that fruit grafted back in.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline rosered

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2010, 05:00:07 PM »

 
  good stuff Shelia  :thumbsup:
 
   Hi WW ,
 
  NAIL  is more of a   closeness  to than grafting in 

 
 
  the advantage of

 at, near, by

 to, towards, with, with regard to


 From πρός (G4314) and a derivative of ἧλος (G2247)

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
 
  to me the Cros or Tree is the TREE OF LIFE being the wisdom of God and we know Jesus was just that , the  knowledge of God and His power 
made known
 Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of Good and evil 
 and it maybe just that ! 
 the good  that come out of that tree  was what Jesus reperesnts  here
  why would Jesus tell us to make the tree good and its fruit  good
  or make it corrupt because a tree is knownby its  fruit ?
 
   now if this was not possible than why would Jesus ask this of anyone  who is listening to Him ?
 
  to me the two fruits were two types  of  peoples hearts   cains and abels   they come forth  out of Eve after the  Tree of Knowledge
 experience
  they were twins   two types of fruit  from this tree of knowledge of good and evil  I think this because   in the sense


  of  the way its  worded 
  she conceived  once  but  bare cain and than abel  Gen 4; 1and 2

  this just makes sense to me that Jesus  is the good gift out of the treeof knowledge of good and evil  , everyone has a chance  this way to  prove himself before God ................or have  the  pardon of sin
  the good is a fruit that love by faith  works  and the evil is the hate that  generates works of the faithless , unbelieving etc ..
 


 Jam 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
 
  the good gift and  the perfect gift
  two  gifts and two trees 
 the tree of good and evil  knowledge and the knowledge  found in the tree of LIFE  that is perfect /Love

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2010, 05:14:00 PM »
Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of Good and evil and it maybe just that !  the good  that come out of that tree  was what Jesus reperesnts  here why would Jesus tell us to make the tree good and its fruit  good or make it corrupt because a tree is knownby its  fruit ?
The question is if Eve got more or less evil after she ate from the tree. I think she didn't change at all. The tree didn't contain good or evil but only the knowledge of it.
Meaning for the first time she could see the difference between good and evil.

Without a law you can't break the law. And with knowledge you never know you broke the law.
Just a thought....
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline rosered

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2010, 05:22:32 PM »
Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of Good and evil and it maybe just that !  the good  that come out of that tree  was what Jesus reperesnts  here why would Jesus tell us to make the tree good and its fruit  good or make it corrupt because a tree is knownby its  fruit ?
The question is if Eve got more or less evil after she ate from the tree. I think she didn't change at all. The tree didn't contain good or evil but only the knowledge of it.
Meaning for the first time she could see the difference between good and evil.

Without a law you can't break the law. And with knowledge you never know you broke the law.
Just a thought....


  Hi WW ,
 You do not think knowledge  can bear fruit ?  like  thoughts that become a manifestation of whats in our hearts ?
 the tongue is a tree
 
 Pro 15:4 A wholesome tongue [is] a tree of life: but perverseness therein [is] a breach in the spirit.
 
 Pro 18:21 Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.
 
 luke 6 ;45 a good man out of  the treasure of his heart brings forth that which is good and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart  brings forth that which is evil for out of the abundance of his heart  his mouth speaks
 
the evil or good in our hearts are stored up by this knowledge  to me Tony and it seems thats is how we are also known  by
  by the tree and its knowledge and the fruit it brings our of our own hearts ....      :icon_flower:
 

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2010, 05:26:01 PM »
Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of Good and evil and it maybe just that !  the good  that come out of that tree  was what Jesus reperesnts  here why would Jesus tell us to make the tree good and its fruit  good or make it corrupt because a tree is knownby its  fruit ?
The question is if Eve got more or less evil after she ate from the tree. I think she didn't change at all. The tree didn't contain good or evil but only the knowledge of it.
Meaning for the first time she could see the difference between good and evil.

Without a law you can't break the law. And with knowledge you never know you broke the law.
Just a thought....
You do not think knowledge  can bear fruit ?  like  thoughts that become a manifestation of whats in our hearts ? the tongue is a tree
No, knowledge doesn't bear any fruit. Thoughts/actions bear fruit and knowledge is used to classify the fruit as good or bad.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2010, 11:12:51 PM »
Found something about the cross.
Cross has a pagan origen long before Christ. It represents the birth of the sun. (equinox)
Another symbol for that is an eagle.
Of course the fact that a cross is used in pagan rites is on itself no proof that that Jesus didn't die on a cross.
But it seems in the early years of Christianity there was no mentioning about a cross.
That came with Constantine. Constantine saw Jesus as an Eagle. Eagle=cross. So he sorta declared Jesus died on a cross.

As I wrote earlier the word that cross is translated from also means: pole, stake.
But also staff. It would make sense in this verse.

KJVLuk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross/staff daily, and follow me
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline CHB

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2010, 12:55:04 AM »

Hi WW,

Jesus met his death in a garden (John 19:41) A place of trees.

Christ who was beaten and was probably very weak couldn't have carried a fully assembled latin cross that weighed somewhere around 200 pounds. The piece he carried more than likely was the upper piece which was a crosspiece, it was nailed to a huge living tree. Many times the word "tree" is mentioned (Acts 5:30)  (Acts 10:39) (1Peter 2:24)  (Acts 13:29) (Gal. 3:13). Christ said close to his crucifixion, "if they do these things in a green TREE, what shall be done in the dry"? (Luke 23:31).

CHB

 

 

Offline sheila

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2010, 02:07:14 AM »
 Hey Tony,

   Please reconsider is 'knowledge' bears fruit

   Genesis 4   AND ADAM KNEW EVE[had intimate knowledge of]

   HIS WIFE, AND SHE CONCEIVED, AND BEAR CAIN

   seems I see a little fruit of the womb of knowledge going on

  here,Tony :mblush:

   

Offline sheila

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2010, 02:49:22 AM »
 Hey Tony,

   What do you think Father was trying to tell us,

  when two theives,one on each side of Jesus were hanging on

  their trees,also.?[now there were two trees in the midst of the garden, the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tree of Life;]

   Mt 27;38  two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left

   they put a staff in his right hand and knelt in front of him and mocked him

 
  What do you think the crowd crying for the release of the

theif 'Barabus' ...and the crucifying of Christ

symbolized spiritually?

  Zechariah 5;4  the flying scroll...the Lord Almighty declares, 'I will send it out and it will enter the house of the theif and the house of him who swears flsely by my name, it will remain in his house and destroy it, both it's timbers and it's stones

  a house divided against itself can not stand

John 10;8  All who ever came before me are  theives and robbers

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2010, 10:33:02 AM »

Hi WW,

Jesus met his death in a garden (John 19:41) A place of trees.
Bit off-topic in this thread. But there are (supported) views that Jesus didn't die on the cross, tree, pole or whatever the correct translation is.
Surely His body died on the cross/stake/...
But spiritually He died when Judas kissed Him. Your verse seems to align with that view.

Quote
Christ who was beaten and was probably very weak couldn't have carried a fully assembled latin cross that weighed somewhere around 200 pounds. The piece he carried more than likely was the upper piece which was a crosspiece, it was nailed to a huge living tree. Many times the word "tree" is mentioned (Acts 5:30)  (Acts 10:39) (1Peter 2:24)  (Acts 13:29) (Gal. 3:13). Christ said close to his crucifixion, "if they do these things in a green TREE, what shall be done in the dry"? (Luke 23:31).
Thanks. I see that as a bit extra proof tree isn't a very weird thought :winkgrin:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2010, 10:42:45 AM »
Hey Tony,

   What do you think Father was trying to tell us,
I'm here to learn that...

Quote
  when two theives,one on each side of Jesus were hanging on

  their trees,also.?[now there were two trees in the midst of the garden, the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tree of Life;]
:laughing7: Yep, Jesus was the tree of life in the midst of that garden with just 3 trees.

Quote
  What do you think the crowd crying for the release of the

theif 'Barabus' ...and the crucifying of Christ

symbolized spiritually?
Is "I don't have a clue" an acceptable answer to you?  :sigh:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2010, 04:38:32 PM »
lol!

  You know, I had never realized the signifigance of the theif on

the right, his comment/confession and Jesus reply.'Itell you the

truth today, you will be with me in paradise.


   If the two men pictured the tokogae's fruit,on either side of

 Him, isn';t that something?

   the theif on the right ;[Luke 23;40] But the other criminal

rebuked him.'Don't you fear God,' he said'since you are under

 the same sentence? We are punished justly,for we are getting

what our deeds deserve.But this man has done nothing wrong.

 Then he said 'Jesus,remember me when you come into your

kingdom.

    Is that fear of God the beginning of wisdom? and is not

wisdom a tree of life to those who embrace her?His statement

of Jesus innocence...and request to be remembered is an act of

faith,isn't it?Acknowledgement of his deeds as deserving of

death,acklnowledging Christ's as not,from the tokogae?Even

though it is good fruit to acknowledge this..death is still the

outcome


  But Add the expression of faith in Christ[is that not a

righteous branch of the tree of Life?]sprouting up from the

midst of togogae?

   Isaaih 11  A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse, from

 his roots a branch will bear fruit. The spirit of the Lord will rest

on him- the spirit of wisdom and of understnding, the spirit of

counsel and  of power, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of

the Lord- and he will delight in the fear of the Lord

  He will not judge by what he see's with his eyes, or decide by

 what he hears with his ears


  Isaaih 6; 13   But as the terebinth and oak leave stumps when

 they are cut down, SO THE HOLY SEED WILL BE THE STUMP IN

THE LAND

  r

   

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2010, 03:05:38 PM »
Found something that fits in this thread...

KJVJoh 19:41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden;
Garden is orchard/plantation.
That's where Jesus was crucified.
Jesus didn't carry a cross. He only carried the upper cross piece. A board plank. A patibulum
Then Jesus was nailed with his arms to that plank. Then got lifted up and the plank got nailed to the vertical part of the cross.
The vertical part was simply a living tree in the garden. That was common in those days if the crucifixion had to be carried out quickly.

KJVLuk 23:31  For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry? => Green is a living tree.
KJVAct 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
KJVAct 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
KJV1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Ignatius called it a tree with branches and had fruit on it. Early Christians saw it as the Tree of Life. (artwork in the catacombs)
Jesus and the 2 thiefs where nailed to the same (olive) tree.

http://jesusisyhwh.blogspot.com/2008/08/was-jesus-executed-on-cross-or-stake-3c.html
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 10:31:26 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2010, 04:12:27 PM »
Found something that fits in this thread...

KJVJoh 19:41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden;
Garden is orchard/plantation.
That's where Jesus was crucified.
Jesus didn't carry a cross. He only carried the upper cross piece. A board plank. A patibulum
Then Jesus was nailed with his arms to that plank. Then got lifted up and the plank got nailed to the vertical part of the cross.
The vertical part was simply a living tree in the garden. That was common in those days if the crucifixion had to be carried out quickly.

KJVLuk 23:31  For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
KJVAct 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
KJVAct 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
KJV1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Iganatius called it a tree with branches and had fruit on it. Early Christians saw it as the tree of life.
Jesus and the 2 thiefs where nailed to the same tree.


Did the hill of calvary have trees though?

Offline Nathan

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2010, 05:03:59 PM »
I see the tree in Revelation is the same tree on Calvary which was the same tree in the garden.

In the garden, there were two trees with an unnamed river running between them and out of the garden.  On the cross, there were two trees again . . .the thief turning to Christ represents the tree of life, the tree denying cross represents the tree of knowledge the river flowing between them was Christ.  The Roman soldier revealed the river when he pierced his side . . .just like in the garden again, Adam's side was opened and God revealed his bride.  Jesus side was opened and out of him, the bride was birthed.

In Revelation, there are no longer two trees, but one standing in the middle of the crystal river that flows from the thrown . . .same river as was in Genesis.  This one is unnamed as well.  I'd call it the IAM river.  The yesterday-today-forever river.  The that-which-was-which-is-which-is-to-come river.  The crystal river is one that brings clarity of the nature of the Son to those entering into it.  The tree's leaves bring healing rather than death and separation. 

So yeah, for me, Calvary had trees.  All kinds of trees.

Oh, and cursed is anything that hangs from a tree, right?  Seeing men as trees then, what do doctrines, traditions, philosophies all hang from???  Just provoking some thought is all.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2010, 05:19:09 PM »
Did the hill of calvary have trees though?
I think the answer is yes. The verse below seems to support the idea.
KJVJoh 19:41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 08:03:18 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2010, 06:24:03 PM »


Oh, and cursed is anything that hangs from a tree, right?  Seeing men as trees then, what do doctrines, traditions, philosophies all hang from???  Just provoking some thought is all.

A thread? :laughing7:

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Rev 22:2 The cross of life
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2010, 08:49:49 PM »
 :cloud9: I like it.... :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor