Author Topic: Rapture dream  (Read 67046 times)

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Offline Molly

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #550 on: January 06, 2012, 07:17:10 AM »
We are under the new covenant now.  The only difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is that the testator died so that the beneficiaries could inherit.  What do they inherit?  The Kingdom.  Eternal life. The mystery.  The riches God has prepared for us in ages to come.
 Think of it as a will. 




13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?   

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

--Heb 9




We aren't going to go backwards to a Temple and the sacrifice of animals, as ELM suggests.   That was only a shadow of what we have now.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 08:11:21 AM by Molly »

Offline Molly

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #551 on: January 06, 2012, 07:29:26 AM »
I think what confuses people about this will is that

the testator is the beneficiary and also the executor of the will [mediator].

We are co-inheritors with Christ.

Offline Molly

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #552 on: January 06, 2012, 03:17:48 PM »

Why is there no "Gentile" gate into the holy city?



10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

 11Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

 12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

 13On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

--Rev 21

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #553 on: January 06, 2012, 03:34:04 PM »
 :cloud9: Because those that are uncircumcised of heart will not enter in.....thus you read of all the NDE's experiences and not one of them ever makes it thru the gates, nor have their loved ones. But outside the gates are murderers, thieves, those that loveth and maketh a lie, ect.

And of course, the churches have all claimed none of those conditions pertain to THEIR soul, it's always someone elses. But the truth is, what we don't overcome WHILE IN THIS BODY, lands us outside the gates, as one without a wedding garment (cleansed soul), waiting on the bridegroom to have mercy. My  :2c:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #554 on: January 06, 2012, 03:40:33 PM »
Molly I agree we are not going back to a literal temple with sacrifices.  I don't agree with many of the conclusions ELM makes.  But I do think there is a difference between NC and Mystery.  Maybe its NC 2.0  :laughing7:

Peter said Pauls writings were hard to take, but were scripture.


As for the tribes being the gentiles, I don't really know, but I don't think it has anything to do with geneology, being a literal decendent of Jacob.  I think thats what the mystery is all about the full removal of all the outward, literal, for instead all inside, spiritual. :2c:

Offline Molly

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #555 on: January 06, 2012, 03:45:00 PM »
:cloud9: Because those that are uncircumcised of heart will not enter in.....thus you read of all the NDE's experiences and not one of them ever makes it thru the gates, nor have their loved ones. But outside the gates are murderers, thieves, those that loveth and maketh a lie, ect.

And of course, the churches have all claimed none of those conditions pertain to THEIR soul, it's always someone elses. But the truth is, what we don't overcome WHILE IN THIS BODY, lands us outside the gates, as one without a wedding garment (cleansed soul), waiting on the bridegroom to have mercy. My  :2c:

Yes, I think that's part of it.  But who are the circumcised?  Aren't they the beneficiaries of the will written in the Old Testament?
Being circumcised does not indicate what tribe you are from.  How will I know what gate to go through?


21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
--Rev 21


Matt 13:45,46 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who is a merchant seeking fine pearls, who having found one pearl of great price, he went and sold all that he had, and bought it."

Doug

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #556 on: January 06, 2012, 03:54:12 PM »

21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
--Rev 21


Matt 13:45,46 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who is a merchant seeking fine pearls, who having found one pearl of great price, he went and sold all that he had, and bought it."

Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Doug

Offline Molly

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #557 on: January 06, 2012, 03:56:41 PM »
Molly I agree we are not going back to a literal temple with sacrifices.  I don't agree with many of the conclusions ELM makes.  But I do think there is a difference between NC and Mystery.  Maybe its NC 2.0  :laughing7:

Peter said Pauls writings were hard to take, but were scripture.


As for the tribes being the gentiles, I don't really know, but I don't think it has anything to do with geneology, being a literal decendent of Jacob.  I think thats what the mystery is all about the full removal of all the outward, literal, for instead all inside, spiritual. :2c:

Many Christians do not know about or understand the mystery.  Whenever I try to bring it up with Christians, I get funny looks, dirty looks, accused of being New Age or worse.   It's one of the reasons I can't go into a church anymore and talk to people.    The word 'mystery' refers to secret knowledge known only to initiates.   When you say there is  a difference between the NC and the mystery, maybe you are thinking that different people will inherit different aspects under the will.   That happens in an ordinary will--'I leave my silver broach to my dear sister Mary.'

Maybe think of it as a trust instead of a simple will, with different people inheriting under it at different times according to the schedule laid out in the will.




1Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

 2But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

 3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

 4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

 5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

 6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

 7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

--Gal 4


Here you see--the heir is coming out of the Old Testament--a child until God sent his Son.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 04:04:32 PM by Molly »

Offline Molly

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #558 on: January 06, 2012, 04:02:16 PM »

21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
--Rev 21


Matt 13:45,46 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who is a merchant seeking fine pearls, who having found one pearl of great price, he went and sold all that he had, and bought it."

Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Doug

yeah, mine will say, Tribe of Manasses.  You need the ticket to get through the gate. Show it to the angel and walk through. :winkgrin:

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #559 on: January 06, 2012, 04:02:50 PM »
 :cloud9: The covenant that was for a type and shadow, is now spiritual. Their seed has been seeded into all the earth. He has "crossed hands" so to speak, with the blessing. So now the blessing rests upon the spiritual Jews that He is bringing forth in this hour, and many (not all) of the those of the natural lineage, will soon find they are in reality, Gentiles to Him now. The last (Gentiles) shall be first (now as spiritual Jews), and the first (natural Jews) shall be last (now as spiritual Gentiles).

Fifteen+ years ago, He sent me to attend the 5th Messianic convention. There was an elderly woman there, in her 60's who had spent her LIFETIME, seeking Him while caring for her blind mother. He sent her there as well, with the word to give them hat He was now removing His Spirit from off the Gentiles and putting it upon the Jews.

He had told her she would find her people there. She was gentile, but He had her only buying food with the little Kosher mark on it (she didn't even know what it meant). He was making her a spiritual Jew (by OBEDIENCE), and she did find her people there, but it wasn't the natural Jews (now Messianic ones that were there), who thought her word from the Lord was craziness and threw her out.

He HAS been doing just that; removing His Spirit from off the gentiles (not circumcized of heart), and placing it upon the Jews (circumcision of the heart). My  :2c:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Molly

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #560 on: January 06, 2012, 04:10:43 PM »
Quote from: Cardinal
and many (not all) of the those of the natural lineage, will soon find they are in reality, Gentiles to Him now.

You think they would have figured that out when he said, "I leave your house desolate..."


I don't think we should be called 'spiritual Jews,'  at least call us 'spiritual Israelites,' [ but I also believe we are the real house of Israel, lost and now found.]

Doug

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #561 on: January 06, 2012, 04:41:56 PM »

21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
--Rev 21


Matt 13:45,46 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who is a merchant seeking fine pearls, who having found one pearl of great price, he went and sold all that he had, and bought it."

Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Doug

yeah, mine will say, Tribe of Manasses.  You need the ticket to get through the gate. Show it to the angel and walk through. :winkgrin:

"Hidden manna" is a metaphor, that means very much the same thing as "mystery." The "mystery" revealed to Paul was actually a more complete understanding of the implications of a revelation originally given to Peter in a vision. Paul said the mystery is the knowledge that "the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel."

Ephesians 3:3-7
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.


This mystery was a revelation, but it was also a new understanding and interpretation of the things that had been previously revealed to the OT prophets.

Revelation 10:5-7
And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


The "mystery" had been "declared to his servants the prophets," often in ways they did not fully comprehend. Zechariah's prophecy that there will be no more Canaanites in the house of the LORD of hosts is an example of how the "mystery" was declared to them. It is rather obscure because under the OT law, anyone who was uncircumcised was not allowed to enter anyway.

Zechariah 14:21
Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

Yet, we read that one of the 12 chosen disciples of Jesus was a Canaanite! And they were to sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The believers who were Canaanites after flesh, or Gentiles of any race or nation, become Israelites spiritually and are "as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." [1 Peter 2:5]

Doug

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #562 on: January 06, 2012, 05:11:14 PM »
Quote from: Cardinal
and many (not all) of the those of the natural lineage, will soon find they are in reality, Gentiles to Him now.

You think they would have figured that out when he said, "I leave your house desolate..."


I don't think we should be called 'spiritual Jews,'  at least call us 'spiritual Israelites,' [ but I also believe we are the real house of Israel, lost and now found.]

 :cloud9: I don't care what He calls us, as long as I'm found in Him  :icon_jokercolor:  Anyway, I call us Jews because of the circumcision of the Jews. The natural lineage is the earth the seed was planted in, but the seed is now a spiritual Son, soon to be enrobed in a glorifed body. My  :2c:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #563 on: January 06, 2012, 05:41:51 PM »


TABERNACLES!
HIS burden is
    LIGHT!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCunuL58odQ

Offline Molly

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #564 on: January 06, 2012, 05:43:16 PM »
Quote from: Doug
Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Why are they judging only the twelve tribes of Israel and when does this happen?

Doug

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #565 on: January 06, 2012, 05:46:03 PM »
We are under the new covenant now.  The only difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is that the testator died so that the beneficiaries could inherit.  What do they inherit?  The Kingdom.  Eternal life. The mystery.  The riches God has prepared for us in ages to come.
 Think of it as a will. 


The "mystery" in Paul's epistle to the Ephesians is a more complete understanding of the truth (originally revealed to Peter) that "the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel." [Ephesians 3:6]

In the Old Covenant, and in the promises given to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, possessing the land of Canaan was the central and perhaps the most prominent item. But in the New Testament, possessing the land seems to have become a non-issue. The Jews occupied the land, and Jerusalem, but they were under Gentile dominion, and were part of the Roman Empire, in New Testament times. The Herodian rulers were nominally Jews, although of Edomite descent.

Hebrews 11:16 puts the literal land into the category of type and shadow, by the statement, alluding to the patriarchs of old, "But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city." [Hebrews 11:16]

Here, the heavenly city, the New Jerusalem, is put in the place of the promised land. The author of Hebrews showed that as when the Israelites entered the promised land, this heavenly city is only entered by faith. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." [Hebrews 11:1]

The literal land, I think, represents the spiritual things promised to the saints. This includes the promise that the Spirit would guide the church into all truth. The "mystery" was no doubt an example of this.

In the parables of Jesus, the kingdom of God is often associated with a wedding. Christ is presented as the bridegroom. In Revelation 19:7, John identifies the heavenly city as the bride and wide of the Lamb.

The New Covenant is not only a will, but a marriage covenant. There is an analogy between the seven years that Jacob labored for his bride Rachel, daughter of Laban, and the seventieth week in Daniel 9:24-27. In the 70th week, Jesus "confirms the covenant with many." This 70th week includes the half week of the ministry of Jesus on earth, (three and a half years, if John's ministry is included) and a final symbolic half week, that spans the whole age of the church. In the first half week, Jesus qualified, by his righteous life and his death, to inherit all the promises of God, and in the second half-week he qualifies us.

Doug

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #566 on: January 06, 2012, 05:53:26 PM »

 But in the New Testament, possessing the land seems to have become a non-issue.




Quite the contrary.
The "land" is body, soul and spirit covered inside and out with His Life.






Offline Cardinal

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #567 on: January 06, 2012, 06:18:49 PM »
 :cloud9: Amen.....this is the land flowing with milk (for babes) and honey (revelation for the mature)..... :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Doug

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #568 on: January 06, 2012, 08:48:10 PM »

 But in the New Testament, possessing the land seems to have become a non-issue.




Quite the contrary.
The "land" is body, soul and spirit covered inside and out with His Life.


Ezekiel 38:9 says of the hordes of Gog and Magog, "Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee."

In this prophecy, the invading armies, and the enemies of the church, who are deceived people from regions far from the land of promise, [Revelation 20:8-9] are "like a cloud to cover the land." Why is this?

Proverbs 25:14
Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.

Those who boast of possessing a gift, but in reality do not possess such a gift, are compared to clouds without rain. This would apply to false teachers. Many of them claim to have received "new revelations." Ezekiel said the hordes of Gog and Magog will "cover the land." What does this suggest about the land? Perhaps, it implies that their doctrines tend to obscure the true inheritance of the saints, as the land represents the spiritual things that are promised to them. From the land we obtain food, and foods such as bread represent spiritual nourishment in Scripture.

The New Testament confirms this idea, I think. Peter said of the false teachers, "These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever." [2 Peter 2:17] In Ephesians 4:14, Paul refers to "winds of doctrine." In contrast to wind, the teaching of Jesus are referred to as rock. [Matthew 7:24, 16:18]

Jude 1:12 says, in part, "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds."

The land brings forth fruit when it is watered from above, as James said.

James 5:7
Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

Rain and snow represent the word of God, that waters the earth, so that it may bring forth seed, and bread, in Isaiah 55.

Isaiah 55
6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.


Doug

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #569 on: January 06, 2012, 10:35:55 PM »
 :cloud9: As far as "new revelations" go, there's nothing new under the sun, but there is both shallow and deep water.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Doug

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #570 on: January 06, 2012, 10:44:56 PM »

I don't know if he's saying to abandon the NC, but that the mystery is a higher and fuller revelation than what was laid out in the NC.  Maybe he is, if thats the case I don't agree with him on that, its been a while since I've read that article.  Also I'm pretty sure he never says to throw the old testament out, he quotes it all the time. 

I see it like the passover is kind of representing the OC.  NC is pentecost.  And mystery is Tabernacles.

Also everlasting doesn't mean everlasting, or else we can't have our cake and eat it too as UR's, that age (may have) ended with the fall of Jerusalem, and the mystery was instituted right around that time, the NC was given to the house of Israel right?  Literal Israel means nothing anymore in God's economy (at least for this age), so maybe the NC was given to Literal Israel, and those grafted in. 

When Paul says he's a minister of the NC in Corinthians, that is supposed to have been written before the mystery came in.  Also the last chapter in Romans (containing the mystery) may have been added, which is ELM's thesis.


According to E. L. Martin then, someone added an extra chapter to Romans, that mentioned the mystery? Evidently he had to postulate that the Scripture had been changed, to prop up his interpretation. But what reason could there be for such a change?

Ephesians speaks of both the "mystery," and the "covenants of promise." Therefore one does not replace the other as suggested by Martin.

Ephesians 2:11-13
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.


The references to the commonwealth of Israel, and the covenants of promise imply these Gentile Christians were now associated with Israel [the grafting in of Romans 11] and with the covenants that pertain to Israel, including the new covenant foretold by Jeremiah.

Things included in the "mystery" outlined in Ephesians 3 are also included in other epistles written earlier. Here is how Paul defines the mystery:

Ephesians 3
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.


Paul said that the mystery was that "the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body." This was originally revealed to Peter, in a vision. Paul developed the theological implications. In Romans 12, Paul wrote:

Romans 12:4-5
For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.


Isn't this basically the same teaching that he calls the "mystery" in Ephesians 3:6? Sure looks like it to me!

Similarly Paul wrote to the Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 12:12-14
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
For the body is not one member, but many.


This is clearly the same thing that he calls the "mystery." 

Same chapter, vs. 26-27:

And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.


The idea that we are a "new creature," another component of the mystery, (the "new man") is also mentioned in Paul's earlier epistles:

2 Corinthians 5:16-17
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


Thus the essential ideas that are said to constitute "the mystery" are contained in Paul's earlier letters and are not really "new" at all, as Martin sought to show by his "progressive revelation" concept. Paul said he was a "minister of the new covenant."

IMO, we need to be included in this new covenant, as it represents entry into the heavenly Jerusalem, called the "bride of the Lamb" in Revelation 21:9.

Hebrews 12:22-24
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


Doug

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #571 on: January 07, 2012, 12:11:28 AM »
The covenants are, IMO, really renewals. As cardinal put it, "shallower and deeper water". Others have labored, we have entered into their labors. In th process of the restoration of all things, these are the stages of the revelation and restoration from chaos- the last adversary being death. When death dies, a covenant of life that has been unfolding throughout the ages will be fully delivered.....no longer a promise on any level, for anyone....but rather fulflled in everyone.

In Abraham the covenant of a priestly nation began as a seed. First stage patriarchs- Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Fathers. Then through Jacob, the transition to sons, a nation, 12 tribes, sons of the promise. Transition to nation/kingdom - even in shadow form(moon, no inner glory) a lamp(Zechariah) to the nations, the beginning of the blessing in Abraham.

Then, through the seed of David, Messiah brings a new birth, not of man or the will of man, but of the blood of Christ, Hebrews and Gentiles, a "new" nation that is grafted into and then swallows up the "root", even as the "root of Jesse" is swallowed up by the Son of David, frirstborn among many brethren, bringing many sons unto glory- our "Joshua", captain of our salvation. The church, the bride, the new lampstand, composed of lampstands, earthen vessels bearing the precious treasure of the divine nature by the indwelling Holy Spirit- written in "words of life" upon tablets of flesh not stone, living epistles, the hearts of human beings reconciled to God and bearing in themselves a preisthood, "the ministry of reconciliation".

The newer, younger covenant is made in Christ's blood bearing no relationship to former heritage.
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Offline CHB

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #572 on: January 07, 2012, 01:25:37 AM »
Quote from: Doug
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Doug, what body is being talked about here? Christ's body. This is not talking about the Jew's.

If you remember before, Gentiles had to be grafted into Israel, now we along with Israel just need to be in Christ, his body, not Israel. Being grafted into Israel was of the New Covenant now it is the Mystery. We no longer need to be grafted into Israel we need to be IN CHRIST. There is a difference.

CHB

Offline Molly

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #573 on: January 07, 2012, 01:42:30 AM »
It's not exactly 'gentiles' grafted into Israel.

It's a wild olive tree grafted into a cultivated olive tree.

It's not a pear grafted onto a peach tree.

Likewise, branches are broken off the cultivated olive tree.

The root is Christ.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 02:34:58 AM by Molly »

Doug

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #574 on: January 07, 2012, 03:15:19 AM »
Quote from: Doug
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Doug, what body is being talked about here? Christ's body. This is not talking about the Jew's.


Paul said, "For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones." Jesus was a Jew. And he is the King of the Jews, the promised Messiah. How can we not be Jews?

Doug