Author Topic: Rapture dream  (Read 64025 times)

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Offline thinktank

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Rapture dream
« on: November 18, 2011, 09:01:18 PM »
I wasn't sure to post this dream I had of the rapture about a week ago, but the lord gave me a sign that he wanted me to prophesy, but I did not take the sign seriously. But after cardinal posting there is no rapture I am compelled to post this dream.

The dream
I was changed into a spirit ghostly type being and began to elevate quickly towards the sky and saw other people elevating and being happy, but I noticed I was not ready to leave the Earth. As I thought these thoughts I began to slow down and felt heavier, but eventually I made it to heaven. But this heaven was veiled by me, so heaven was not as good as I expected, but Jesus was there giving a speech to a group of people. I could not make out what he was saying. But then I talked to another person and said I have to go back to the earth, "I have unfinished business".

So I think the Lord is saying to me that the saints or x number of  saints will return to earth in their supernatural bodies, just like Jesus did after his resurrection.




Offline Molly

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2011, 09:29:47 PM »
wow!  Great dream.   


"Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches bud and its leaves begin to sprout, you know that summer is near.

In the same way, when you see all these things taking place, you can know that his return is very near, right at the door.

I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass from the scene before all these things take place.

--Mark 13



I've been thinking about this passage recently.   A lot of people feel it refers to the founding of Israel in 1948.

But, I was thinking recently maybe it is referring to the rising numbers of Messianic Jews we are seeing now, because that fits in with the tender shoots budding in the Spring [the fig tree is Israel].--Especially since he says, you won't see me again until you say blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD.

Either way, we are this generation.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2011, 10:17:48 PM »
 :cloud9:

That's interesting. Without Jesus how can Israel blossom. So maybe Israel was planted in 1948, but it has taken a while for the tree to blossom and eventually grow leaves and fruit, worthy for the master.

I have always found it puzzling concerning the birth of Israel as to whether it was by Gods hand or mans hand, since scriptures point to the restoration of Jerusalem/Israel, coupled with the Lord, but todays Israel is mostly secular and practice Judaism and Islam. But what you said could bring greater understanding that a tree takes while to grow and produce fruit and there are signs the size of a mans hand, that Israel are accepting Jesus of Bethlehem as the messiah.


Offline jabcat

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2011, 10:31:57 PM »
I agree..  :thumbsup:

Offline Nathan

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2011, 10:56:07 PM »
wow!  Great dream.   


"Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches bud and its leaves begin to sprout, you know that summer is near.

In the same way, when you see all these things taking place, you can know that his return is very near, right at the door.

I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass from the scene before all these things take place.

--Mark 13



I've been thinking about this passage recently.   A lot of people feel it refers to the founding of Israel in 1948.

But, I was thinking recently maybe it is referring to the rising numbers of Messianic Jews we are seeing now, because that fits in with the tender shoots budding in the Spring [the fig tree is Israel].--Especially since he says, you won't see me again until you say blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD.

Either way, we are this generation.

Really?  How in the world can you take "this generation" completely out of it's context and place it 2000 years after the fact?  If it were to be 2000 years later, then please explain why Jesus didn't state that?  Daniel was given the SAME DREAM as John's Revelation of Jesus and yet Daniel was told to SEAL IT UP and John was told to LEAVE IT OPEN . . .why?  Because it wasn't for Daniel's day, but it WAS for John's day.  If God would tell Daniel that it wasn't for his day, then IF it wasn't meant for the generation Jesus was in, then why did he instead say that it was?

The leader of the  . . .no disrespect to TT for his dream, but there are reason's why we are told not to lean on our own understanding.  And as many people out there who've had dreams want to believe they're from God, they're just not.  The leader of the Mormons had a dream and look where that ended up.  If there is ever a time for a caution, I would say this would be one.  Dreams come from the subconscious.  The subconscious feeds from consciousness, aware and unaware.  A belief in something can create a dream about something.  And because there's a dream doesn't really make it truth.

Where does this dream then fit in with UR?  If we're reconciled through the cross, you're saying that apparently the affects of the cross haven't reached you yet?  That you're not "ready"?  If God is light, where was he in the dream? 

As far as waiting for Israel. . . .think about what we're saying here.  We are actually saying that the lower realm has priority over the spiritual realm.  What about the other passages that say "we" are all Israel spiritually.  We are all circumcised not by hands of men . . .the thing that set Israel apart was the circumcision.  That's what sets us apart from earthiness.  It's power has been cut away from where the seed of life is released through us.  God isn't "waiting" for flesh to line up with his spiritual alignment.  He already knows it's outcome because he proclaimed it.  he's not waiting for the inhabitants on the earth to become righteous, he's already proclaimed that. 

When you transform the inside, you will see the outside manifest the change.  When you see the completion in the spirit, you will see the completion in the flesh follow.  It's kinda like the hell thing as well as the rapture and everything else that distracts us.  A message is trumpeted with a question . . ."Why seek ye the living among the dead?"  And 40 days later "Why do you continue to stare up into the clouds???"  The kingdom doesn't come by observation.  The signs of the times Jesus was sharing with them was not about something 2000 years later.  It was about the atrocities that were to befall on them THEN.

Sorry if this sounds forceful.  I shouldn't present it that way.  These things are merely things I believe God not only is showing me, but others who are willing to release their grip on the ever-changing natural state around them.  It's just that  . . .well . . .I've already said too much.

Offline sheila

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2011, 11:54:53 PM »
 TT

   the dream is about your spiritual struggle...you are rising spiritually to the heavenly mind...but not fully commited to leave 'earthly' things behind.

   that in turn 'drags you down' spiritually...and when you do 'get where you are going' you find it  somewhat disappointed..veiled to you..

.and you desire   to return to earthly things..[maybe because you are more comfortable with the known]
.
       will pray for you in your struggle,brother :HeartThrob:

Offline jabcat

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2011, 12:06:27 AM »
This is what I especially liked Molly;  "Without Jesus how can Israel blossom. So maybe Israel was planted in 1948, but it has taken a while for the tree to blossom and eventually grow leaves and fruit, worthy for the master."

Whether talking about a "rapture" or some other way of Jesus ushering in the next age, rather than solely  the events of 1948, the current blossoming of the tender shoots could IMO, still be a sign of what's occurring.  (For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea. Habakkuk 2:14)

TT, is it possible your dream could still have spiritual ramifications but it not be about a "rapture", at least in the "Tim LaHaye/Left Behind" sense?

« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 12:11:54 AM by jabcat »

Offline sheila

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2011, 12:14:21 AM »
The Israel that is 'now' needs to be born again from above.

   there was a great earthquake...the city was divided into 3 parts[Islam,Judaism,Christian]    the earth helped the woman and opened it's mouth to receive

   the waters the dragon spewed to try and wash the woman away

Offline jabcat

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2011, 12:23:26 AM »
The Israel that is 'now' needs to be born again from above.

 

Amen.   :thumbsup:

Offline thinktank

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2011, 01:03:13 AM »
This is what I especially liked Molly;  "Without Jesus how can Israel blossom. So maybe Israel was planted in 1948, but it has taken a while for the tree to blossom and eventually grow leaves and fruit, worthy for the master."

Whether talking about a "rapture" or some other way of Jesus ushering in the next age, rather than solely  the events of 1948, the current blossoming of the tender shoots could IMO, still be a sign of what's occurring.  (For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea. Habakkuk 2:14)

TT, is it possible your dream could still have spiritual ramifications but it not be about a "rapture", at least in the "Tim LaHaye/Left Behind" sense?

I don't think the dream is saying that the rapture is at the door i.e next year or something. Maybe just that in terms of thousands of years, the lords return is very close.

I'm not sure the exact method God will use. I don't think many here are keen on the rapture idea, but somehow God will bring his purposes to fruitition. One of those purposes is to bring the kingdom of God to the Earth as it is in heaven. According to Daniel the kingdom of God will overcome the kingdoms of the beast and destroy them. Now this earthly heavenly unseen kingdom has operated for thousands of years, but the kingdom of darkness is at large and is dangerous. So I think in times God is bringing supernatural acceleration of his kingdom on Earth. Not sure how this will be brought about, the scriptures say the creation groaneth for the manifestations of the sons of God. I think Israel has a large part to play in bringing the kingdom of God upon the earth, where king David will rule from Jerusalem. Another example of this kingdom accelaration is the doctrine of UR, which has been hidden for thousands of years. Maybe the rapture will bring the saints supernatural bodies so that the kingdom of God can be preached in all the earth. The book of revelation shows an angel carrying the gospel message to the nations.
Nathan said that we are Israel spiritually. That is true and one reason why the Israel in the current land could be a deception, paving way for the true Israel to be gathered from all corners of the world, to worship in Jerusalem. But this natural Israel could in fact blossom to be true Israel also as, Paul said that all Israel shall be saved and that the gentiles because of Christ would lead them to jealousy. Now currently I do not believe that the gentile church has leaded the Israelites to jealousy. So there is a lot of work left for the body of christ and some exciting times ahead.
 :2c:



Offline jabcat

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2011, 01:09:23 AM »
Well said, thanks.   :bigGrin:

Offline Molly

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2011, 04:55:54 AM »
Quote from: Nathan
Really?  How in the world can you take "this generation" completely out of it's context and place it 2000 years after the fact?  If it were to be 2000 years later, then please explain why Jesus didn't state that?

I don't think I took it out of context as far as the Mark 13 quote is concerned.  I think 'this generation' refers to the generation that sees the fig tree start to send out tender shoots, blossoms, and leaves---then you will know that summer is right around the corner.

So to know who 'this generation' is  in this passage, you have to first decide what he means by the fig tree metaphor.

Natural Israel is today only one tribe really [Judah], maybe some representatives of other tribes thrown in, but 10 of the 12 tribes were mostly lost to history.  We don't see the 12 tribes mentioned at all in the NT until the book of revelation and there they are, with Dan gone and Joseph receiving a double portion.  So....

 Paul tells us that Israel [meaning the Jews] won't be brought in until the fulness of the gentiles.  But what is the fulness of the gentiles?



Genesis 48:19
And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.


Here, Jacob tells Joseph that Ephraim shall become a


"multitude"


H4393
מלו    מלוא    מלא
melô'  melô'  melô
mel-o', mel-o', mel-o'
From H4390; fulness (literally or figuratively): -  X all along, X all that is (there-) in, fill, (X that whereof . . . was) full, fulness, [hand-] full, multitude.



[of] "nations"

H1471
גּי    גּוי
gôy gôy
go'ee, go'-ee
Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.


Do you have to be a literalist to have your socks blown off by this one?  Paul's 'fulness of the Gentiles' is Jacob's 'multitude of nations'---the children of the lost tribe of Joseph!--traced through, you guessed it!--the younger son, Ephraim!




25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
--Rom 11
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 05:17:24 AM by Molly »

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2011, 09:23:06 AM »
I don't think many here are keen on the rapture idea, but somehow God will bring his purposes to fruitition.
Where exactly in the Bible rapture is thaught? The only rapture thing I see is Jesus joining His bride on earth instead of His bride joining Him in heaven....
 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2011, 09:37:57 AM »
wow!  Great dream.   


"Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches bud and its leaves begin to sprout, you know that summer is near.

In the same way, when you see all these things taking place, you can know that his return is very near, right at the door.

I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass from the scene before all these things take place.

--Mark 13



I've been thinking about this passage recently.   A lot of people feel it refers to the founding of Israel in 1948.

But, I was thinking recently maybe it is referring to the rising numbers of Messianic Jews we are seeing now, because that fits in with the tender shoots budding in the Spring [the fig tree is Israel].--Especially since he says, you won't see me again until you say blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD.

Either way, we are this generation.
The fig tree is the tree that withers away.
If I had to pick a tree it would be the olive tree.
The standard Menorah has 7 almond branches.
The Hanukkah Menorah has 7 almond branches + 2 extra olive branches.
For what it's worth according to my calculations Jesus was concieved during the Festival of lights.
AFAIK the 7 armed Menorah burned prime quality olive oil. Symbolic for HS.
But the 9 arm Menorah even has "HS-branches" gradted in.
 :2c:

Today the Jews are the 7 armed Menorah?
The Christians the 2 olive branches?
The Messanic Jews the 9 armed Menorah?
Dunno, but I think the Christians have cut off far to much of their Jewish roots.
 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2011, 09:43:56 AM »
:cloud9:

That's interesting. Without Jesus how can Israel blossom. So maybe Israel was planted in 1948, but it has taken a while for the tree to blossom and eventually grow leaves and fruit, worthy for the master.
A bit more time has passed by now :laughing7: but tree must be at least 3 years old to be harvested from.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2011, 01:25:36 PM »
Quote from: ww
The fig tree is the tree that withers away.

Fig tree produces fruit twice a year, in Spring and Fall. :mshock:




OMG this is so exciting.  Read both pages.

http://focusonjerusalem.com/israelandthefigtree.html
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 01:33:05 PM by Molly »

Offline Molly

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2011, 02:06:11 PM »
Quote from: ww
If I had to pick a tree it would be the olive tree.

Quote
Dunno, but I think the Christians have cut off far to much of their Jewish roots

The olive tree is the tree of Universal Reconciliation.

In the OT, the olive tree is the twelve tribes of Israel.

We see in Romans 11, Paul talks about two olive trees, a cultivated or natural olive tree [kallielaios] and a wild olive tree [agreilaios].

Paul says you goyim, gentiles, nations, are the wild olive tree, and God is grafting you onto the cultivated olive tree.  But don't boast against the natural branches [some of which are being cut off] because God can graft branches in and take branches out.

But, eventually, Paul says, the whole tree ['all Israel'] will be saved.

 God started with the gentiles [abraham][wild olive tree], set apart a group to himself [twelve tribes of Israel][cultivated olive tree], cultivated that group [OT], then broke branches off that cultivated tree [NT] and grafted in branches from the wild olive tree [gentiles].  Eventually, God will graft back in all the branches that were broken off.  So all will be saved [cultivated].

There's only one tree [olive] representing Jew and Gentile , even though there are cultivated and wild varieties of that tree.



32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen

--Rom 11



« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 02:30:20 PM by Molly »

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2011, 04:44:10 PM »
 :cloud9: @ TT.....here is what the Lord gave me one day while I was studying the Word. The book opened to Matt. 13 and He literally opened my understanding as I read. I was slain in the Spirit on my bed when He finished quickening these scriptures to me. The funny thing was, I called my friend a half hour later, shaking, and told her to get her Bible. She did, I read it to her with the understanding He had given me, and SHE was slain on HER bed, LOL.......He does have a sense of humor.  :icon_jokercolor:  Anyway......

Matt 13: 36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

Notice that the multitude (who only follow Him for their natural needs/understanding to be met, ie. fish and bread) are sent away by HIM. Ever try to share spiritual truths with people who are not where you are? Sometimes the LORD sends them away.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

Now if the good seed is Him, where or what then, is the "field" of the "world" He's been sown in? Aren't we His temple, flesh being the dust of the earth?

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Christ in us must increase (grow) like a child must grow in the natural. But there are children of both kinds planted in this dust/field of the world.

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Now knowing this, notice what the end of this "world" really is. The angels (MESSAGES or messengers with a message) reap or raise up from the earthen field, BOTH children, but one is cast into the fire to be consumed, our God is a consuming fire.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Our "world", "ends" when the things of flesh that are holding us down and keeping us from walking in heavenly places (paths of spiritual understanding) have been consumed by the fire of God. This is the reason for the tongues of fire that come upon our heads.

The soul is the candle of the Lord, and that candle must be lit to give off light. And so we read about hiding our candle under a basket. The staves of that basket, as they are removed, one by one, are the darkness of the tares being removed and consumed, so that more of the light of the candle (Christ) can be seen.


41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

So where is the Kingdom of God? Is it not IN US?

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


Once delivered from the darkness/tares, Christ (there is none rightous but Him) in us can shine forth as the sun (not under the rulership of the moon/law anymore). If this was literal, He wouldn't have said we need the hearing ear (that HE plants) to hear it.

Also remember He said that it would be as it was in the days of Noah when the flood came. The righteous didn't leave the earth when the flood came; they were RAISED UP above the waters of death to the flesh by the ARK and the Word of the Lord (His breath/understanding) that came to them. My  :2c:  Blessings....

"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2011, 06:03:25 PM »
Quote from: ww
The fig tree is the tree that withers away.

Fig tree produces fruit twice a year, in Spring and Fall. :mshock:
I guess Adam ate during the fall  :laughing7:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2011, 10:19:50 PM »
TT

   the dream is about your spiritual struggle...you are rising spiritually to the heavenly mind...but not fully commited to leave 'earthly' things behind.

   that in turn 'drags you down' spiritually...and when you do 'get where you are going' you find it  somewhat disappointed..veiled to you..

.and you desire   to return to earthly things..[maybe because you are more comfortable with the known]
.
       will pray for you in your struggle,brother :HeartThrob:

Yes you are right. I'm not sure what to expect in heaven, it kind of creeps me out that I'll have to spend eternity up there, full of strangers.
I just hope that the saint can return to earth and live life in the new earthly kingdom and do the things they never had the chance to do.

In heaven for example if I want to be a great cook, will I just click my fingers and bam there it is. I prefer the idea of constructing a recipe in the earth, that has real value to the people, rather than cooking a meal in heaven that a billion others can do so at will.
The only thing I look forward to about heaven is a body free from pain and the nauseating sensations of sleeping and waking up.

Thanks for praying, but earthly comforts are much needed right now, I seek more not less, the time for me is to build, and escape the desert, the lord has taken to much of my time, it's a challenge to go back into the world, but good things await from the lord.





Offline thinktank

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2011, 04:46:19 AM »
@ cardinal

when the lord told you there'd be no rapture could it be your interpretation of it that is different to mine?

As a beginner in your walk, that you spoke of, maybe you thought that the rapture would fly your flesh and blood into the heavens, and so God said that he would bring  the flesh into the dust. The dust carnality is scattered into the four winds and translated - as the spirit soareth into the heavens.


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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2011, 01:27:38 PM »
Yes you are right. I'm not sure what to expect in heaven, it kind of creeps me out that I'll have to spend eternity up there, full of strangers..
Your family and friends are there too.
Quote
In heaven for example if I want to be a great cook, will I just click my fingers and bam there it is. I prefer the idea of constructing a recipe in the earth, that has real value to the people, rather than cooking a meal in heaven that a billion others can do so at will.
No more tears. No more sorrow. That includes being bored I think.
:clock:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Aleax

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2011, 03:32:58 PM »
@ cardinal

when the lord told you there'd be no rapture could it be your interpretation of it that is different to mine?

I've been thinking of the same thing. Maybe there will be some kind of "rapture", but not one in Tim LaHaye/Jerry B. Jenkins style.

This is the kind of stuff why a part of me is, has always been (but hopefully won't forever be) a non-believer. Contradicting God-experiences. Person A states "Lord told me that [X]", and person B states "Lord told me that [Y]", while X <> Y. The unbelieving part of me is suggesting that these "God-experiences" cannot be coming from the omnipotent Christian God, for He would have surely found a more tangible way of communicating with His people. However, the believing part of me is suggesting that these seemingly contradictory messages can be conciliated.

For example, I've seen a prophecy like "Don't look forward to a literal 1000 Kingdom with Jesus ruling the world from Jerusalem. The Kingdom of Heaven is simply within you". Then again, there are prophecies predicting a very literal Millennial Kingdom. What if the point God wanted to bring across with the "don't look forward to a literal Millennial Kingdom" prophecy was simply that one doesn't need to wait until the next eon to enjoy Kingdom Life, as (s)he can already have it spiritually in this current eon? 
Behold, I make a few things new.

The Plan of The Ages: God's Unfailing Love Revealed in the Cross

Offline Nathan

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2011, 03:42:55 PM »
Quote from: Nathan
Really?  How in the world can you take "this generation" completely out of it's context and place it 2000 years after the fact?  If it were to be 2000 years later, then please explain why Jesus didn't state that?

I don't think I took it out of context as far as the Mark 13 quote is concerned.  I think 'this generation' refers to the generation that sees the fig tree start to send out tender shoots, blossoms, and leaves---then you will know that summer is right around the corner.

So to know who 'this generation' is  in this passage, you have to first decide what he means by the fig tree metaphor.

Natural Israel is today only one tribe really [Judah], maybe some representatives of other tribes thrown in, but 10 of the 12 tribes were mostly lost to history.  We don't see the 12 tribes mentioned at all in the NT until the book of revelation and there they are, with Dan gone and Joseph receiving a double portion.  So....

 Paul tells us that Israel [meaning the Jews] won't be brought in until the fulness of the gentiles.  But what is the fulness of the gentiles?



Genesis 48:19
And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.


Here, Jacob tells Joseph that Ephraim shall become a


"multitude"


H4393
מלו    מלוא    מלא
melô'  melô'  melô
mel-o', mel-o', mel-o'
From H4390; fulness (literally or figuratively): -  X all along, X all that is (there-) in, fill, (X that whereof . . . was) full, fulness, [hand-] full, multitude.



[of] "nations"

H1471
גּי    גּוי
gôy gôy
go'ee, go'-ee
Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.


Do you have to be a literalist to have your socks blown off by this one?  Paul's 'fulness of the Gentiles' is Jacob's 'multitude of nations'---the children of the lost tribe of Joseph!--traced through, you guessed it!--the younger son, Ephraim!




25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
--Rom 11

Or . . . .
The fig tree representing Israel of THAT GENERATION which died in AD 70, which if left "in" the original context, for me that's what the passage is implying.  It's the correlating passage of Matthew 23 and 24 "not" about a generation 2000 years removed. 

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Rapture dream
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2011, 04:00:55 PM »
 :cloud9: @ Aleax......And as always, the best thing to do is ask the LORD to reveal the truth to you. My  :2c:  Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor